Use of Film Clips in VJ-ing

[sleepytom]

i can (and have in the past) demonstrate that it is nessaccery to sample to make a point.

i don't think there is any point at all getting into a debate about the artistic validity of sampling, 30+ years of hiphop kind of prove that point for me.

i sample - i also film my own stuff and i also use live cameras etc etc (we also play whole tracks of finnished av work, kind of like a dj does)

there is nothing morally worng with sampling so long as you are not passing off other peoples work as your own.

[charlielangridge]

Hmmm, heavily off topic, but i couldnt resist (plus im bored/tiered/...!)

[evomedia]

No one can say there is no option other than to sample, that rubbish, else how did the media get created to start with? Its always been created from stratch by someone. If its a social reference, ie war, new stories etc then you can create animation, spoof's, icons etc that still portray the same story, chances are in a more interesting way.

However your right were not talking about morals tom, just I would like less people here to view it as the best option because its easy, after all I know some who have spent years sampling and never created.

Self creating means there is so much scope to produce something visually unique, and I still havent found anything I've thought I HAVE to sample that, if fact I usually think "I could make my own content that says my message better than that." Even so, that didn't mean I didn't sample it anyway in the past, I did it however because of laziness and time rather than to make a point. I just doubt 99.9999% of people saying they are doing as a message, when really most are doing it out of time restrictions or lack of skills and equipment.

I'd love to know what samples you HAD to use tom, that where the only way to make a point valid. Just strikes me that if the guys that have been doing it for years are advocating sampling as valid then everyone new coming in will see it as ok too, rather than saying ok I sampled to get me enough to start but now I'd like to build my own library.

Common, I've said I've sampled in the past, however no big message in using samples itself, just an easy and lazy way to get a message across that I didn't have the time or wish to film myself.

So I'm not defending sampling, I'm saying that so many people like sampling because its easy. Not because they were being ironic towards whatever show they filmed, or because they are being the anarchist...its nearly always about taking the lazy option.

I know you self create tom, just after 10 years in design I've never seen the point of sampling media for the sake of it, if its royalty free then use away, however you'll look like every design agencies cheap work, if its copyrighted leave it alone or get it cleared for use. However I really believe now that its just as easy to make a valid point in other much more interesting ways than by just taking someone else messages as your own, after all most samples I see people playing I really wouldn't miss if they weren't there, but original material I always have and always will be interested to see.

I'd love to know if people really think vj means the same as dj, and they can just spin others content all night. Or do people view it as ideally mixing their own video, rather like a musician playing there own tracks.

I'd love to see a poll, given no time restrictions to build a library, of how many people would still have primarily:
A: Sampled libraries.
B: Self created as their ideal library

Not giving the option for mixed, just interested how many swear by sampling, and how many given time would completely self create.

And I know sampling will never go away, just why sample if you can make your own?

If anyone here can give me one example of something that can only be shown in sample form please speak up, I'd love to see if there really is something that can only be done through sampling. Rather than 3D animation or hinted at through other means.

[sleepytom]

i've used this as an example of how it can be nesacerry to sample in the past
http://www.hexstatic.pwp.blueyonder..../countdown.mov

the joke ONLY works because its a sample - sure you could do a mockup but it would not have the same impact.

see also "machine to kill" by ebn - a jolly little cutup from the 1st gulf war made out of those reports of high tech wepons and in flight smart bomb tech.
the true impact comes at the end the real us airforce poilots realize they have just blown up a US tank and killed a load of there own solidiers - the impact simply wouldn't be there if you didn't know that its real footage from events that actually happened

[evomedia]

Its a fair example tom, still your justifying a sample because you planned to use a sample as humour. You could still make media thats humourous without a sample base.

But I was more concerned with the sampling with no messages, that is content library filling, and even you know that is far too common

[sleepytom]

i don't see whats worong with it really - i've seen plenty of sample based vjs who are showing limmited boring lazy visuals

but i have also seen self created work that has little merit - you know the kind of stuff, poor production values and recycling of the same boring old ideas with no hint of a new angle.

i would say that creativity has little to do with your footage and more to do with the ideas - samples are not defacto uncreative in the same way that filming something isn't inherently creative.

[grahamk]

An interesting spin on this thread through a news article released today, where a Norweigian guy had developed technology to enable DVD copyright control software to be bypassed. Interestingly he didn't want to profit from copying he just wanted to watch DVDs on his Linux machine.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3341211.stm