What is 'Live' & 'Real Time' ?

[skulpture]

A bit of a headache subject for me...

Since completing my Digital Performance MA I keep on thinking back to the assignments I did. A lot of them focused upon meanings and definitions to or around the notions of 'liveness' and 'real time' (realness?)

So just a though.... When you are watching a football match in the pub, you know that the football is 'live' in the sense that you may have a mate at the game, or the news,magazines, newspaper tell you that the match is on today at 3.00 o'clock. If you were physically at the match you would be there so you are watching it live. So if you are sat in the pub watching it 'live' - are you?

Obviously there is delay from the processing of the video image etc but can we watch something when not at a location but still consider it to be live and in real time?

For more reading check out Philip Auslander

[sleepytom]

Live as opposed to recorded..
realtime as opposed to prerendered.
waste of time - spending ages discussing or redefining words which have very broadly accepted meanings.

perhaps this is why digital art is so slow to evolve - rather than creating work people spend huge amounts of time reinventing the words to describe what they are thinking about doing.

[complexvisuals]

This a technical or philosophical question?

[skulpture]

Originally Posted by sleepytom

waste of time - spending ages discussing or redefining words which have very broadly accepted meanings.

perhaps this is why digital art is so slow to evolve - rather than creating work people spend huge amounts of time reinventing the words to describe what they are thinking about doing.

Haha OUCH!
People have been discussing the theory and history of words for centuries, its in our nature. If we can not challenge the notions and literature of words and meanings how can we develop our understandings? - Particularly so in an artistic context such as VJing or AV art.

I can not see how communicating individual ideas and opinions hinders the evolvement of 'digital art' as you put it. Interesting though never the less

complexvisuals - I guess its more of a philosophical question. Technical aspects do come into this as we are talking about the 'digitalisation' of certain media; ie: TV/live streaming etc... But I am just interested in what people associate real time and live to be described as. I like sleepytom's quote for example:
Live as opposed to recorded.
realtime as opposed to prerendered.

[SiliconPumpgun]

in my opinion the difference between live and real time is the feedback. in live you don't have a certain feedback which is guaranteed in a certain time.
i guess there does not really exist real time systems in vjing i know, since most of the realtime systems are done on microprocessors and not on pc-based system since the operating systems window, mac, linux are no real-time systems.

You can abstract the term and think of interaction and feedback with the audience, light jockey, dj,etc. and say i do interact realtime. This description might also be nonsense.

In the common meaning of live tv broadcasts is that there are no recorders involved. Sure there is time delay, but what's said in on air.

So I guess all the works that i have seen is live visuals.


cheers SPG

[complexvisuals]

Originally Posted by skulpture

complexvisuals - I guess its more of a philosophical question.[/I]

Thats me tuned out so...

[vj_jasper]

hey, just tuned in to this thread .. its great!

sure the question was long-winded, but at least you got a really neat answer from tom.

Live as opposed to recorded.
realtime as opposed to prerendered.

the answer begins and completes in those two mini-sentences.

of course, there are variations on the theme .. and why not?

[bryandod]

Originally Posted by skulpture

For more reading check out Philip Auslander

Philip Auslander was recently criticized for plagiarism in his new book Theory for Performance Studies (Routledge 2008) . It turns out that 90% of the book was plagiarized. If anyone should know better, he should. I've always thought his performance theory was a joke, but now it looks like he's proven it. IMHO, this should end his professional career as a performance theorist. For more information, check out Plagiarism, Greed, and the Dumbing Down of Performance Studies
by Richard Schechner.

[deepvisual]

Originally Posted by skulpture

A bit of a headache subject for me...
So just a though.... When you are watching a football match in the pub, you know that the football is 'live' in the sense that you may have a mate at the game, or the news,magazines, newspaper tell you that the match is on today at 3.00 o'clock.

Chinese student murder: Football Betting Scam related??

..football matches shown on television in China have a delay of up to one minute after live action in the stadium, so allowing gambling organizations to place employees at games who send a text when a goal is scored, up to a minute before it happens 'live' in China.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by bryandod

Philip Auslander was recently criticized for plagiarism in his new book Theory for Performance Studies (Routledge 2008) . It turns out that 90% of the book was plagiarized. If anyone should know better, he should. I've always thought his performance theory was a joke, but now it looks like he's proven it. IMHO, this should end his professional career as a performance theorist. For more information, check out Plagiarism, Greed, and the Dumbing Down of Performance Studies
by Richard Schechner.

Naughty naughty. we, as i'm sure you all did, got warned about this at uni. First time you get caught you have to redo the essay, second time you get thrown off the module, third time you get thrown out of the university.


this is a good thread. I'm currently working on an essay for one of my film modules where the question is

"Cinema is not a realist medium- but rather one which uses a wide variety of techniques to engage an audience. The pleasure of cinema is immersion, for both film maker and audience, in these techniques.”

I'm taking the line that i agree with the statement totally, because there is no live interaction with film, where as with something like VJing its nearly always live and can be affected in real time and is not just the exact same performance everytime.