Firewire Out

[complexvisuals]

I poster this last week but never got to see the reply cos of the crash (pity)

I was wondering if any VJ programs allow Firewire out. I know this has been discussed about Firewire-In.

Cheers

Cian

[Awax]

Mine will
I don't know about others.


Awx

[MoRpH]

Hmmm I think this has been discussed on the eyecandy lis but here goes.

Due to the compressed nature of firewire DV it maybe a bit much to expect of current PCs to compress to DV out as well as take live video input/mix-layer multiple clips/do FX in real time.... think about it there is only so much cycles to go around.

[Awax]

Yeah, I know it hard to do in RT while doing other stuff ... but you have PCI card doing it live so you just have to hook up to this card and let it do the job.

My aim is to use the most of your hw.

Anyway, I agree it is very hard and costly to implement without specific hw and relation with hw isn't that easy.

[MoRpH]

PCI card.... *choke* you can't use a PCI card on a laptop.

[ender]

A PCI firewire doesn?t actual process any video, it merely allows data to be moved over the firewire bus, it?s more like a network card in that respect. You can get cards like Canopus DV Storm that have a hardware DV encoder on them, but it doesn?t support the standard windows video architectures so no VJ software will work with it anyway.

[Awax]

To MorpH :
Laptop ... well, I personnaly use custom build PC in very small cases or rackmount cases. I have a very convenient flightcase with small monitor/PC/trackball/keyboard/scan convertor with all connection conveniently accessible (power, sound in (professional balanced connection), TV in/out (SVideo&BNC), VGA out, USB, Net). But I've worked so far in very big parties (2k to 9k people) so place is not an issue.

To Ender :
I wasn't talking about basic FireWire card but VideoDe/Compression card like MatroxRT2000 or the Canopus DV. I know much of those cards are not VFW or DirectShow compliant but sometimes, you could find a way to get in, like hacking its drivers or just contacting the company and making a agreement with them (*dream? I have seen Creative dev team replying to a question about accessing 3D sound card channel directly, not thru DS3D*).

Sorry but keep in mind I actually dev a VJ soft right now and what I wanted to say is that *in theory*, you could (and I'd like to).

[MoRpH]

Cool Awax, good to hear your thinking about the future...... I hope the future is laptops with with fullscreen (pref part of screen zoomed) video out over firewire, but i'm not holding my breath.

Personally I find laptops the best for portablity (i'm onto my second and was the first VJ insyd using one, rather than tape or lugging a desktop) no mater how small the rackmount/etc is.... but I guess its horses for courses.....

My entire rig fits on 50cmx50cm table (of course the CVI rack is underneath in it road case ) and i'm happy with that... but as you can see from my FX hardware thread I would like to remove that too.

[Awax]

Yeah, the Pioneer box is definitely a must have for DJ/performance FX. But building things in hardware is really costly and rather limited (even if the basic box is wonderfull, it can make only the effects inside and can rarely evolve).

Fours years ago, I started a VJ club in my engineering school. A older club in another school was using both classic and computer sources but was mixing in hard (MX50). What I wanted to do was starting directly with the next step : full software. In software, just write a new FX dll and you have it : no limitation and as I am a software engineer, low cost cos it would e home made software. But fours years ago, it required a lot of CPU just to read a MPEG clip. So I started writing a distibuted app : two box to decompress 2 MPEG, send it in 100 Mbps and a third to mix. It took me one full year with a friend to build such a soft. By that time, CPU power increase allowed to do everything on the same box ...

Now I can do anything in one (rather big) box, I think full soft is the key, even if it should take advantage of hw feature (3D accelaration, hw command (Surface1 ...), hw video in/out, ...).
Soory for the looooooooooooong post but I think that you got my point. I do agree HW is cool but things are moving to fast (oldies like CVI are REALLY cool too).

[MoRpH]

"rather limited"

hahaha spoken like a true software developer

yes they can be costly but they can definately be a part of evolution, while maybe not changing themselves you can find amazing new ways of combining different hardware or even working with existing hardware (I still don't feel like I have explored 20% of what the CVI can do) and then there is your evolution as a performer/artist where certain hardware lets you shift into a different paradigm and look @ new things, then when you have changed coming back and appraoching an old piece of gear but with a new mind set and skills can be an amazing experience.

Hmmmm as I have gone through this numuous times over my years as a VJ I think I may actually write an article on vjcentral about it. I think ppl write hardware off far too easily today and just want to do everything in software which can really limit your perspective.

As for things moving to fast, thats only if you want to get caught up in that, personally I don't think we have mastered most of the technology currently available..... I've our techno-lust we often forget to explore and GROK what we already have. Things don't always have to be higher rez, more FPS, tighter code... I use software examples as it is far more caught up in it than hardware (not including PCs)...... think about it some software users expect updates to there fav software every 3-6 months, but they are happy to use a panasonic video mixer that was designed in the 80's

The CVI was released in '84 and I still don't think I have EVER seen it used to it full potential (I hope i'm getting close and cv.vjcentral.com should bring us even closer)

Bring on the hardware!!!