new user, need advice on software

[caemgen]

Hi everybody! I'm new to this so I need some help. Been busy with audio the last two years, took me a lot of time and energy to find the tools I need but
now the next step: video.
I already searched this forum for answers but couldn't find exactly what I needed.
What I want to be able to do is this: generate abstract, motion, 3d graphics. Like what I saw here: http://video.teczno.com/. I believe they made that with Max/MSP/Jitter, I think that software could do what I want but right now it is too expensive for me (and it looks pretty damn difficult to learn ;-) ).
I'm trying Resolume now, what freeframe plugins can do that stuff? The plugins that generate video are more interesting for me I think then the plugin effects that manipulate existing footage. And it's also important that the images react to the music. I also saw some video art by Frank Bretschneider & Taylor deupree - "Autodrive" and "Concrete". I would like to do similar stuff.
Bit of a long story this, but I tried to be a little more specific than: "I wanna be a vj, what do I neeed?" Thanx in advance!

[caemgen]

No replies yet...
What I really would like to be able to do is turning audio into a particle system.
Can this be done with Resolume?

[vjvishnu]

Hi Caemgen.

Um, i'm guessing your using a PC from the sounds of things.

Yes, Jitter is a nightmare to learn, but then it is so flexible. But really if you just want to VJ then you don't need anything nearly as complicated - Jitter is basically a visual programming language - not a piece of ready made VJ software.

IMHO VJamm Pro is the best piece of VJ software for the PC but as it costs ?350 inc P&P + tax you'll have to think carefully before you buy it. Resolume is the proffesional standard and it is surprisingly powerful. It will listen to a line in from the musicians mixing desk and auto mix/affect filters to the volume (therefore beat?) of the music (with three variable values that controll the mixing: high, mid, low) and it will mix between three layers, is pretty damn stable (no crashing durning live gigs) - as far as I know, and has loads of grovvy effects (inc basic 3D?). Amongst other cool stuff.

The only thing is it won't play the audio of the clips - but most VJ's don't make audio while performing anyway.

If your clever u might be able to trigger audio from the midi keyboard that is also controlling the vj software (would reccommend a midi sport or two for this though).

Yeah, and about the 3-d stuff: true real-time 3d VJing is the cutting edge right now. We can make a flat moving image rotate/multiply/move in 360 x 360 but not many of us (to my knowledge) are manipulating complicated 3d objects in real-time human performance. U can do it (i believe) by intergrating jitter/max/msp with 3d studio max but it will take you 3 years to workout how. Most vjs working with 3d just use a piece of 3d software to generate some clips (avi or mov) and then trigger the clips with a vj soft + midi keyboard.

Hope that helps...

[vjvishnu]

Also about the audio into particles try:

http://www.milkdrop.co.uk/

or

http://www.soundspectrum.com/

You can cycle through the preset wavey lines till you find one that looks like paticles.

is that what you ment by particle system?

(danger here though is that you can't really perform as such because these sound to light softs do it all for you. But they will react to your music)

[asterix]

Generally if you want audio reactive 3D then follow vishnu's advice and get an audiovisualiser. Generally they are standalone and don't port directly into your vj app - not that you want them to because they chew most of your resources. If you've got a pretty meaty graphics card you can learn http://www.vjforums.com/showthread.php?t=15928
which I'm playing with now. Got some nice metaball presets if you want to drop me a line.
Theres always VJO and pilgrim which have 3D throughput but my advice if youre just starting is to learn on video clip renderers like flowmotion, resolume etc... that way you can learn how to compose first and then start creating the content you fell works from there.
Freeframe as a rule just modifies video/flash clips - you can tie in audio elements to make it more beat reactive by linking the effects paramaters to LFOs and audio input (which flowmotion is best at IMHO).
Although whorld (search the forums) has released a visualiser based freeframe plugin that self generates visuals.
In short - my advice is to start collecting clips and practice practice practice... then practice some more until your a complete visual junkie. Use these forums they are gold.

[caemgen]

Thanx for the replies vjvishnu! I know a bit more about the common practice now: "Most vjs working with 3d just use a piece of 3d software to generate some clips (avi or mov) and then trigger the clips with a vj soft + midi keyboard."
Guess that means I could for example make 3D clips in Blender and mix those in Resolume. I think it's possible to automate the effects in Resolume via midi, that way I can manipulate the effects realtime.
The thing about integrating max/msp/jitter with 3d max sounds pretty advanced, maybe in a later stage :-).
Yes, the Milkdrop and G-Force look a bit like the particle systems I mentioned. What I want is that the images augment the music, the music is primary for me. So when the music builds up to a crescendo, the image should go along in intensity, that way I can suck the audience in. At least that's what I want to try ;-).

[caemgen]

Thanx Asterix, I will follow the advice. Gonna check out VSXu.
Practice, practice, practice until I'm a visual junkie. I'm already an audio junkie... :-) I downloaded the whorld app, looks cool.

[Rovastar]

Are you wanting to write the whole scene yourself or wanting something out of a box or tweak a few settings?

Try vvvv for creating your own stuff but the learning curve might be steep.
http://vvvv.meso.net/tiki-index.php

For more out-of-box visualization see here:
http://www.shroomery.org/wiki/pmwiki...Visualizations

[caemgen]

@Rovastar

I'm interested in writing my own stuff. I realize that's a lot harder than tweaking a few settings, but I'm willing to learn. It's the same with music, it's easier to throw some loops together from sample cd's but I am more satisfied when I make my own loops.
I have the winamp visualizers. Checking vvvv now, looks interesting and deep. Just starting out with this stuff, think it will take me about 2 to 3 years to know what I'm doing :-). Just when I was getting comfortable with audio now I start with video...