DVD again - estimated advance fee per track

[holly]

Originally posted by videoteque
Autoproducing maybe a small scale solution, as Holly proved, but they didn't make money. Should be more a work of love, than profit. IF you seek profit this way, you are risking a lot to be deluded.

The only way to make some money, would be to convince someone from a powerful label, to make a DVD compilation of electronic music with visuals added by one or more artists.

No, we didn't make money, but we haven't lost money either, and in addition to doing our own mailorder we got various distributers and even NetFlix (online video store). The discs have sold worldwide NewZealand, Turkey, Argentina.... Our goal was to raise visibility and learn to deal with 20 artists etc, but it's impossible for any label to survive off only one title, no matter how well it sells. Opening up distribution is the key. You can only do that with an existing product.

The other issue that RayV isn't addressing is that I'm not convinced making cheap music videos is the best future for VJs. It can become a side market, altho since she has implied she would rather pay VJs less in the hopes a dvd does something for their career I don't know how profitable it could ever become -- not to mention all your content suddenly available to lesser VJs who pirate it -- other people benefit from VJs giving discount tracks to a label, does the VJ benefit...? VJOZ is right tho, if RayV had a hit release everyone would be giving tracks for free.

The VJ market is still VJs it's true, but that doesn't mean you can't sell the concept to a record company.... Did I tell you about working in this big club and all excited that they'd installed DVJs in the DJ booth, but then I started looking at the cables and realized they'd disconected the video streams so the DJ could use them as overpriced CDJs? "It just didn't work out" is what the owner told me. They still had a VJ nook in the contower, but you can bet they weren't going to be reinvesting in hyped vjmarket anytime soon. There is this slogan that we tell everyone that video "makes it better", but the reality is that VJ on dvd is an even smaller market than VJing live.... If the record label doesn't find it to be a winner investment, they won't do it again. RayV, have you ever thought about doing it the otherway-round, and licensing music tracks to support the VJs?

tbh.....If I wanted to sit as an editor making my visuals fit to some pop song I'd work at MTV.

[sleepytom]

yeh - music video is not a new thing - even low budget music video is not new.

low budget music video currently means between ?3000 and ?5000 for a single master supplied to the record company.

please bear this in mind when pricing music video production work. (which is what a dvd release actually is)

as to advances and all the rest i would expect a music video to be sold as any other normal video production work (ie fixed cost payment by invoice with a possible 50% in advance of delivery) the idea of getting royalties from a dvd of music videos scares me.

all of this is assuming that the dvd is released by an established record lable

[cat]

I don't know how profitable it could ever become -- not to mention all your content suddenly available to lesser VJs who pirate it

I've been thinking similarly about the Vj loop DVD's that people are selling, some of them are good stuff, but they are too cheap!
?20 for 30-60 minutes of original content!!
Thats 30-60 minutes of content you cant use without looking like every Vj who bought a copy, I personally look to Artbeats for a pricing scheme, theirs originates from 35mm and is pristeen, mine are lower-fi but are more exclusive and wont be seen on every show you see!
Having said that, compilation DVD's without performance rights built in do, I think have a market, a growing one at that, but the nonperformance clause will be ignored and the dvd's will be played in clubs.
When I was asked to help to put together a dvd, the idea was musicians and visual artists would be on the same split, the label unfortunatly has their european distributors go bust owing them a fairly large sum of money. I dont see why this model wouldnt work for DVD's, but advances for indie compilations tends to be more a token than a payment, due to cashflow!

[RayV]

Originally posted by VJOZ
You want to start a label.

Do the research yourself.
-VJOZ

thanks for your wards.

No, i dont want to start a label.
I was working 5 years for a label/distribution.
than i was working for another music lable for a 1.5 years.

I still have pretty good contacts with various distributions & lable world wide & I know more than a thing or 2 about the records business, tho' there's always a thing or 3 to learn.

that's nuf about me

it goes like this: i was approached by a distibution to try & set such a deal for a dvd compilation.

i was trying to make the research amongst ppl from our community
maybe those who were already involved in such a project & ready to share their input , their pros & cons about it
or maybe to hear what other should think worth their while,
coz, yes, i would like to ask artists here to submit work
ONLY if it all looks fine to me once we reach an agreable work model.

i do hope its more clear now.

[RayV]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by holly


The other issue that RayV isn't addressing is that I'm not convinced making cheap music videos is the best future for VJs. It can become a side market, altho since she has implied she would rather pay VJs less in the hopes a dvd does something for their career I don't know how profitable it could ever become -- not to mention all your content suddenly available to lesser VJs who pirate it -- other people benefit from VJs giving discount tracks to a label, does the VJ benefit...? VJOZ is right tho, if RayV had a hit release everyone would be giving tracks for free.

Holly - my intension was never at all to make a cheap product.
& especaily nor to keep the vjs on the low side.
[why did u understand that?]
my personal thoughts were that larger advances are better than higher %, since as far as I know - when u get the royalty reports every quarter, its still not make it easy to really monitor it, imho.

& i did want to ask vj's for their estimation & wishes
in order to keep the vjs happy too if I can
[is it possibale at all? or every time ppl say dvd everone freak out?]

can such a dvd be profitable?
i hope so,
one parmeter i sure know is - its up to quality - quality of the tunes & the visuals & the promotions & of course - who are the artists involved

i hope my intention are clear now.
maybe my english isn't as good
but i did try to explain where i'm coming from & i do want the vj's / visual artists to be happy when & if such a deal is done.

The VJ market is still VJs it's true, . [/B]

what do u mean?

[RayV]

Originally posted by videoteque


IF you seek profit this way, you are risking a lot to be deluded.

The only way to make some money, would be to convince someone from a powerful label, to make a DVD compilation of electronic music with visuals added by one or more artists. But we all know business wo/men never want to be the first to try something. And the first one won't be too happy to pay top money for the visuals.

I think one day the shareware concept will arrive to media distribution. Create your piece of art (music, video, compilation, single, etc.). Make it available in all p2p chanels. Write in the begining and ending credits, if you liked this work, make a donation to my paypal/whatever account. It's the only solution. Give the viewer/listener the pleasure to become your fan/customer...

i like this idea about p2p,
& i might do it if it was all created by me.. one day...

but in this case, once a distribution is already thinking about it, should i NOT try instaed of YES try?
should I let all fears into it or else - try to think how to do it best
& deal with it,
Iknow for a fact, we can't stop p2p, i'm sure we are all part of it, or most of us are. can be dubble faced here.

should we avoid trying set a model & give it our best shot in creating music AND video DVD? as Tom said, it's not new.
some dvd'S AS SUCH did sold more than otherS, yes , some vjs are using other dvd's, showreels & whatsnot without permission & so are clubs.
I haven't got any answers for that, [yet?]
i'm here to ask questions & hope to hear constructive ideas.

ppl didn't stop yet making music & havn't stop try n sell cd's yet coz of thives & p2p.