Ads in visuals?

[tcut]

We recently did two gigs for coke-fusion (an event platform sponsored by coca cola).
We were forced to use the coke logo,exemple here (http://www.melt.at/video/cokedemodivx.avi)(divx 5).
What do you think is it ok to add adds to the visuals in exchange for more money?

[Primebase3]

fuck it: no choice at all, use your skills to make money. if you get the chance. if you don't like the view of the corp your doing it for then balance it like moby does : give a portion of the advert money to a good cause (greenpeace anti global crewz) if it makes your conscious clear. personally i'm sick and tired of hearing stuff like " don't do it you'll sell out" if you have the chance to make money with the thing you like to do most you gotta go for it full swing. or the guy who' saying that sellout shit will do it for you...

(Experience is good no?)

[PilotX]

I think that it should be avoided where possible. But you pretty much have to get on the corporate gravy train if you want real $$.
I really don't like the 'if I don't do it someone else will' argument that Primebase3 seems to be placing - I've heard it too often in defence of the arms industry.

I'd say that it is not wrong per se to do gigs where you have to use corporate logos in your visuals, although I do think that advertising is at the root of consumer culture problems, because of the methods used (attracting ppl to the product by use of sexual/comic etc. content, rather than the product itself)

Advertising should not be done when it can be avoided, but to do a few gigs each year to keep you living is perfectly acceptible. Selling out comes when you only do corporate gigs, or only chase the money that comes from them.

Having said that, there are some corps I would never do things for (such as Exxon-Mobil). Not sure about Coke. It's all down to individual choice.

Tom
SyZyGy Visuals

[eXhale]

I had started writting a nice, long rant on the way sponsoring could affect VJing in the future, maybe I'll post it here if I find time to finish it. That said I pretty much agree with PilotX although, from the information I have, Coca Cola is among the corporations I'd rather avoid to promote myself.

[brain]

hey tcut,

shitty situation, but predictable.

when you do visuals you have to decide if you want to do "art" or a "job".

if you want/need to earn money with it, mostly you will have to compromise: someone pays you for getting what HE wants. the problem is less obvious if you play in clubs - you may do what you like, and everyone is happy. but maybe even here you may have to please the expectations: if you do too much experimental stuff, the crowd/owner might be pissed and ask you to play some trippy chick flicks or hire someone else. (maybe the bigger the event, the more "mainstream" you will have to be)

if you can do your very personal thing all the time and get paid decent, you are a very lucky person :)

if you work at an sponsors event, he will make sure that you play by his rules. you simply have to consider if you want to work for that product/company or if you feel bad about it. if you have a chance to, follow your heart and don't do it. set your personal limit: for whom/what will you never play?

if you feel bad and still have to do it for the money, you are in the same position as manymany people with their jobs. being less engaged in such gigs (playing just routine style) may work, but maybe it shows and you're out.

maybe there is a sad rule that says the closer you move to real money, the more you have to compromise.

i have made the decision to earn my money with something else and do the visuals i want to, for fun and little money in places i like and to music i like.

but that is a luxury choice and i will no condemn someone who needs to make money and compromises...

(indeed i work in design /advertising so i take the same bloody money! i only separate it from the visuals...)

[elbows]

I have very strong political views but I wont bash anybody else who chooses to go along that path though. Yeah Coca Cola are on my list of evil corps, never mind, I'll never get corporate sponsorship anyway as my content is not likely to be of good marketing use to them :D

Me prefers subvertising :D

[holly]

It depends on the company. If you think they are worthy to work with/for, why would you have any problem letting people know they are sponsoring you and making the event happen? If you take the money but are ashamed to admit it then there is maybe something wrong with your morals. I guess you can give away ALL the money to ease your concious (not just a small part), but it still seems pretty self-serving. You are taking advantage of the expenses and publicity and opportunity to show your work to their crowd.

Hating anything established or business-oriented or corporate "just because" seems pretty juvenile. Not every corporation "rapes" the environment or kills puppies. Some do good things when possible, like hiring VJs to entertain at an event, or supporting various arts and charities -- maybe that's not their number one goal, but if they are helping in any small way it's probably more than one person could do on his own.

Now, if the logo is really cheesy or ugly that's an artistic compromise:p then maybe you could think about how to distort it or improve they way it looks in your set....

[eXhale]

Just found an useful list of the top 10 worst corporations in 2001, Coca Cola is in them...

http://www.corpwatch.org/bulletins/PBD.jsp?articleid=1188

Coca Cola was named among the 10 worst for its sponsorship of the first Harry Potter movie and possible sequels, using a children's favorite to hawks its unhealthy product, and for alleged complicity with death squads in Colombia targeting union leaders there.For those interested, this article (http://www.corpwatch.org/news/PND.jsp?articleid=52) has more information.

[murph]

Originally posted by holly
Now, if the logo is really cheesy or ugly that's an artistic compromise:p then maybe you could think about how to distort it or improve they way it looks in your set....

Or just use text instead of their logo... like even the super-zoomed 3D text scrolling past so you don't realize what it says at first can be pretty effective for this kind of thing.

[brain]

hmmm....
if someone is a bad VJ, he/she should work for bastard companys and do maximum damage to their image ... :D

when being a very good VJ, this person should consider him/herself a pontential dangerous weapon against the minds of people - to be handled carefully. :cool:

[holly]

Well, it's slightly off topic, but how many times have you used a club's logo or the name of a DJ? So many clubs are financed by mafia (at least the big ones here in the US). Are you responsible for their business practices because you play in their establishment? Does that mean you are promoting drugs and alcohol? How many innocent deaths are caused by drunk drivers, or long term liver poisoning, etc...? Do you really know the character of the DJ whose name you just flashed?

Maybe when these issues come up and you feel like it would be a moral compromise to use a company logo in your set (ignoring that their logo is probably everywhere all over the event and its publicity already), maybe you could speak to the company reps who are hiring or oganizing the event. You could say, "I support what you are doing here, but your company has a bad reputation for exploiting and harming people. What can you tell me about that to make me feel more comfortable with using your logo?"

Maybe the reps will have an answer, or maybe the reps will feel ashamed for promoting the company themselves, and maybe word that artists don't want to work with them until their reputation changes will pass back up the corporate structure. At anyrate, it might do some help.

[cubas]

From my point of view these big corporations like CocaCola, McDonalds, Shell etc. doing very much evil in todays world. Media are for them just meanings of ruling massess, public controllers. If you are working for them as vj/advertiser you are with no doubts also responsible for evil they do.

[Rovastar]

Hi Lefty tree hugger crusty types, ;)

I have no problem at all doing corp sponsership. It is dead easy for me to tastfully wrap/twist a texture of a logo in my sets.

The club nights can have there logo there so why not corps. If Coke etc sponser the event the event organisers have no problem why should you?

Look at this more a business and it is not a question really. Corps pay money for this shit use it in an artistic way (most should like the benifit of your experience). Potentially another half you nightly income for something like this.

[eXhale]

Originally posted by Rovastar
The club nights can have there logo there so why not corps. If Coke etc sponser the event the event organisers have no problem why should you?The difference is that clubs (at least the ones I know) are not in the practice of sending death squads to torture and kill people who oppose them. Just read this article I linked above... And Coca Cola is not an exception, Pepsi has done just the same and the oil companies are even worse. We are directly promoting these practices by helping them brand some cool hip events. But if you can support them and sleep by night, then all the better for you, I guess.

[charlielangridge]

Ok, i might really be missing the point, but if you are so worried about using the coke logo for anit-corporation reasons, why are you playing at a coke-sponsored event? Slight contradiction words people. If you dont want to use the logo for artistic reasons, fair enuf, just remeber who's paying the mortgage! If you dont want to use these logos for moralistic reasons, then what are you doing at a corporate sponsored gig?

Rho-D

[elbows]

Oh here we go again *****, insult the board time just cos they have opinons that dont match yours :o

Yes, I have spent a long time on forums laughing at the hijacking of the word evil, I dont relaly believe in good and evil to be honest, so whe I use the term I was kinda doing it in a tonge in cheek way, but I made no attempt to make that point clear so it is indeed my fault about that. I wont use the words again here.

I dont need a degree in political science to be able to use the word subversive thank you very much, and for me this isnt about fashion either. If it is for some people then more fool them. If you're involved with Greenpeace then why so cynical about this?

Look my problem with corporations is their structure in general - by being answerable only to their shareholders those humans who make decisions within them are really bound to maximise profits and its all too easy for them to dodge moral issues, in fact they would be doing their job badly if they put people before profit. But, there is a huge can of worms here that I can talk about forever, I thought it would be enough for me not to bash those that choose to use advertising, theres enough arguments on these forums without this stuff. If you wanna debate world political issues I know a few forums where it would be much more suitable.

My problem isnt necessarily about their products either, but more in the ways that our emotions are attached to products via the arts of PR and marketing. Id rather be sold something on the basis of the actual real product not some large breasted model in an ad thanks. Even if coca cola was good for me (which it isnt) then Im still allowed to hate them for draining natural water resources for locals in India arent I? Am I allowed my own views please?

You can stick Darwins world too, Ive never subscribed to the idea that Survival Of The Fittest is an excuse to treat others like poo to further your own ends.

There is no conspiracy theories at work here, I dont like to make an ass of myself with speculation and half truth, that just adds to all the disinformation in the world.

No more arguing for the sake of it purlease :D

[eXhale]

I wasn't expecting you to agree with me, *****. I'm well aware it's easy to ignore these well-documented facts or find excuses to support them. All the people in the advertising/media industry, and in society as a whole, would go crazy otherwise. And I'm not saying I'm perfect either.

[elbows]

In summary I dont want to try to change anybody mind or attack anyone for their own beliefs, nor insult anyones intellect who chooses to disagree. Think and do whatever you want, live by your own rules, Im not the Thought Police lol.

[Rovastar]

Originally posted by eXhale
The difference is that clubs (at least the ones I know) are not in the practice of sending death squads to torture and kill people who oppose them. Just read this article I linked above... And Coca Cola is not an exception, Pepsi has done just the same and the oil companies are even worse. We are directly promoting these practices by helping them brand some cool hip events. But if you can support them and sleep by night, then all the better for you, I guess.

I read the article on paranoidtreehuggers.com and obviously you missed the word alleged in that article.

When the information is in the form of facts from a reputable source I will listen to them. :) :nod:

Lucky I didn't drink any Coke at AVIT otherwise I would have been lynched.:);)

Are there any large companies that the tree hugging brigade DO like?

I thought ***** was full on tree hugger too as I knew his Greenpeace connections.:)

Anyway as I said it is about business. For the artistic direction side of things I see it as better to create a fancy morphing 3d image of a coke bottle than to have real stickers for coke stuck around the projection screen.

LAter all I am off to eat some babies. Ummh McBabyRib Burger.

[eXhale]

Originally posted by Rovastar
When the information is in the form of facts from a reputable source I will listen to them. :) :nod:errr... if this hasn't been proved it's because they haven't had enough money to sue the corporations. corpwatch is one of the most reputable source for this, and if mainstream media don't talk about it, it's because they don't want to offend their advertisers (or more simply because they are corporations, too). all this is facts which can be found everywhere if you're really interested to know.

and btw i am not saying that what tcut did is "bad" or that he should feel "guilty" for it, but he was concerned about it since he started this thread, right? i'm not going to hate those who do corporate stuff, but i don't see what's wrong with discussing about the effects of sponsorship and branding on the VJs and on society as a whole? this is a topic we won't avoid, you know? why are you so aggressive about this subject, *****? afraid to have moral troubles if you think too much about it? i think that everyone should be able to make the best informed decisions based on all the details.

:eek: :o :rolleyes: :zzz:

[elbows]

Originally posted by *****

What exacrly do you see wrong with large brested women promoting a product? seems a very sexist stereotypical view mate. why pick on women with large breasts? I can't see a problem with it. Lagre breasts don't improve a product but they don't hurt the view either.

The psychology of marketing is what I meant - I find it distasteful simply because it is the deliberate manipulation of our emotions to sell products. Silly and simple though it may seem, it is the simple "sex sells" thing, dishonesty in advertising. I want to buy a drink because it tastes nice, isnt harmful etc, not because some PR gits have been mucking around attaching my base instincts to products. I have nothing against large breasted women, including my body unfortunately lol.

I thought I said that Im not trying to enlighten anybody really, in terms of convincing them that I am right and they are wrong. Im not asking anybody to boycott Coke or calling anybody evil if they want to get money from corporates, its all totally understandable to me. But if I choose personally to take a stand on issues that mean something to me, without ramming it down anybody elses throat or preaching like a truth pimp, whats wrong with that?

Its a difficult issue for me in some ways, because at the moment I am working with someone who has made music with many political messages in it, but I am weary of subjecting people to that stuff if they are just out on the town to let their hair down and have fun. Still no matter how hard I try I cannot bring myself to give up and accept the view that I am powerless, its what the powers that be want us to all believe which is good enough reason for me not to believe it :D

No there arent really any corporates that I do like, as I already explained I have a problem with their very structure and the fact that in some ways they have more rights than individuals and they can also potentially be immortal. I mean the first corporation was basically created to expand the British Empire, and I dont see a lot of difference in todays corps to be honest :D But do I take it to the extreme, refuse to buy any goods that arent made by local small businesses or individuals? Why of course not, I have a computer for a start :D Each to their own, we've all got our own standards and I wont attack anybody as long as they dont try to burn me for being a tree-hugger :D

[eXhale]

Other than this, the video is pretty nice :) I just wonder what they thought of the fact you mainly used blue and red (the colors of the competitor :p). What software did you use?

[elbows]

Im too tired for this, you play your game and I'll play mine, but I dont think either of us gain from trying to prove to one another that we are right. We've clearly had very different life experiences and are almost on different planets. As long as you know the rules to your game and play it in a way that makes you happy, fine. Just dont try to make me old and bitter before my time, eh, dont suck my positive energy out of me before Ive had a chance to waste it on fruitless causes :D

I like it here on the bottom of the ladder because there are no dogs to stab me in the back ad take over as leader of the pack. I just dont play that game.

You are right though, I should stop moaning at people for insults which offend me. Say what you say, fair play, just dont assume we all work like you. I like listening to the Pink Floyd album "Animals", which one are you? A dog from your recent posts it seems. Im a sheep trying not to be, but as I dont want to be a Dog or a Pig I have nowhere to go but back to sheepdom I guess!

[eXhale]

Originally posted by *****
BTW X did coke kill a few ppl? so what?I think that says it all about your point.

Have a good night.

[elbows]

lol I was trying to understand the wellies thing, and I was thinking of horrible things like concealed weapons in wellies, then I realised you might be talking aboot sheep orifice infiltration type people :D

Well as long as we can have a laught about our differences I guess I dont mind, but one of these days I really must get round to loading up some VJ software and doing something productive lol.

Im with you all the way on the sellafield thang, not quite sure what I can do to help though - it cracked me up when I found out that our delightful governments solution to the windscale disaster was to change the name of the place to sellafield and hope people forgot lol. It all seems connected to me, thats why in my dreams the whole system has to go, with capitalism & corporates the way they are how are we supposed to achieve anything in such matters? Respect due to Greenpeace, if nothing else they are good for raising public awareness of issues, but how to actually get real change?

[murph]

Originally posted by *****


while doing so some other dude is using it and getting ahead while laughing at ya and moving into a position where the games played by his rules.

Case in point: http://www.bionicdots.com

[brain]

Originally posted by *****

Id be happy to play Coke adds and Harry potter adds all night if it gives me a chance to draw attention to real issues in the chance that after a gig few ppl may wake up to the possibility of the whole damn planet being bolloxed.
G

well ***** aside from all your ranting and insulting (yes i see it that way too and don't like it) i think you have build your own little illusion that makes things comfortable for you.

you say that you have to take chances and get ahead in the game working for the big ones, until you reach the top and finally be heard.

it's the lame old "play the game, get the power, change things" that never worked.

that's silly. you will only reach the top if you support the opinion and practices of the ones in power. if you become prominent, have the power to change peoples minds and still want to radically change things, you might get shot.

if you think you can work your way all up kissin ass and not get a foul taste in the mouth... what will you tell people when you finally are "in the position to be heard"? maybe by that time you are to tired or cynical to even care.

and if you still have a message: you have helped keepin' the people stupid you now want to talk to. they were dumbed by all the advertising brainwashing bullshit, they learned to ignore everything, they will ignore you then. it would be a sad waking up, even if it worked.

that's why i don't dream of "when i become famous" but take little bits of resposibility here and now. i think i'm much more on elbows little planet than yours and fine.

[Primebase3]

never though I'd Ever say it ... but ***** has a point (history in the making here) guys trust me ideals are good, but it will leave you in the streets if your not careful use/abuse the talents that you have to get that higher goal out instead .

if your in it for the art then it doesn't apply to you: do your thing and be happy with that. if your in it for the bizz (making videos/commercials etc etc etc) then it's no choice at all. you gotta work with corps eventually. holly (als making a point) is also right: doing it from the inside out is also better.


about being a "sell-out" indeed the word is open for different views. if you wash dishes and vj because your good and you like it. or to make money with those talents leaving yourself a lot happier (again trust me on this one) then are you selling out? ideals are good : but they won't put bread on the table

ps: selling out is good! (if you do it the right way) ^^

[brain]

Originally posted by Primebase3
ideals are good : but they won't put bread on the table

yea true
but always try to earn your bread while following your heart - it tastes better :)

[Primebase3]

sure , but what if your not happy with what you are doing in the first place (ie mindless fuckedup jobs) while you know you can do so much more. I did everything after college from dishwashing to cleaning planes (which was cool if you got a asian flight : finding mad cool comics ^^) till late in the night. I got depressed because I was looking for that design job I knew I was more then qualified for and it's a bizzness that I truly love this couldn't be it ! The bills started to stack and I swore to myself if I have to clean out one more coffeemachine I'd freak the fuck out. Vjing was cool but I couldn't do it fulltime (doesn't pay enough in crew of six.) and all of a sudden it happens: I got a interview for a ad agency : I'm a fulltme designer//creative now. and yes we represent a big japanes corp.

Reality is: I'm happier now then before. If you give yourself that situation but from the idealistic viewpoint we're discussing it all get's a differen twist doesn't it ?


Besides if you not content with it : use it as a weapon take the bloodmoney" and use it for promoting your own views. Myself I don't have a problem with (most) big corps it's more the people that by the product. It tells more about the world than the companies it selff.

irony: the best selling soda in iraq is coca cola.

[brain]

as i wrote before i make my living as a web- and printdesigner for (mostly big) companys, it's what i've learned and i'm too afraid to kick it all for an unsure perspective i don't have now.

having the inside view i still hate them - but i won't bite the hand that feeds me here. in this i compromise.

that's why it's even more important to me to keep the bastards out of what i'm doing in visuals. i will not allow them to enter this precious area, it would spoil things for me and leave me feeling empty. that's my way to keep an space of my own where i can do whatever i like - and feel like i've sold not all of my potential.

[Primebase3]

Originally posted by brain


having the inside view i still hate them - but i won't bite the hand that feeds me here. in this i compromise.




dilemma offered here : choice:

working design/print for big corps in their housestyle and Visual identity rules and vj parttime.

or

Vj fullitme and giveing props to the sponsors that are on the flyer anyway on it every hour or so with the rest off the work in your rules. with the potential to learn and excell so you won't have to?



?

its up to the person i guess

[Primebase3]

uhm .... well even do he "rants"(dude relax, your smart enough to place your thoughts and views in a way that doesn't snap someone's head haha you little "eminem" of mine) , *****'s point is a huge one : you can't avoid it anyway. or you got to go live in the woods and ban your mobile, your I-book the cans of food, water , and so on and so on and so on, there is no warning for globalisation on the news : because it's already here. everywhere and everything!

[syzygy]

I'm somewhat split on this issue...

Or should I say these issues because there seem to be two debates here:

action on specifc issues Vs general resistance
working within a system Vs rejecting a system

There is often a link between these - people who believe in specific action tend to be more inclined to work within a system whereas those who favour more general actions tend to tackle the system they disagree with from the outside.

I applaud ***** for focussing on the specific issue of nuclear power. Often, focussing on specific things is the only way to acheive tangible results.

However, I also think it is important for some people to fight the more vauge battles. Somebody has to keep reminding the world about issues such as globalisation that are at the heart of many of the other issues. I admire these people also - they are often the people who get issues into people minds and lead to others launching more specific actions.

Working within a system can often be the best way to get results. Example - The Illisu Dam campaign was successful in getting Balfour Beatty to withdraw from a dam project in Turkey which was going to force people from a huge area from their homes without compensation. It was ultimately sucessful, not because of noisy protests or suchlike (although this sort of thing was useful in getting enough attention to gain a critical mass of support) but by working within the system. How? Well, loads of protest supporters got themselves one share each in Balfour Beatty, so that a motion could be tabled for the AGM in which it was proposed that the Dam project would be damaging for Balfour Beatty. The motion argued that proceeding with the dam project was not in the best interests of the company because of the bad publicity it would attract. The board ultimately saw sense and pulled out of the project. I really don't believe this result could have been achieved by working completely from the outside.

One the other hand, I can sympathise with people who take a more rigid line, refusing to have anything to do with things that they disagree with and living their life by a strict code. I think the world needs these people because they can sometimes prove that a different way of life can work and also provide 'pure' examples of spokespeople who cannot be accused of hypocrisy by those who seek to put them down.

I think it is counterproductive for differences in how to approach these issues to become a bone of contention between people who have basically similar aims in terms of improving the world but different ways of going about them.

How does this relate to the issues of advertising in visuals? If you think you can change the world best by carrying the advertising, making money/gaining influence and using it to best effect on specific campaigns then go for it!

If you think the best approach is to use your visuals to educate the world on more general issues while maintaining your 'purity' from corporate influences then do that!

Both are important in their own way.

Take whatever approach you want to - just do it with a clear idea of what you are about and a clean conscience

Dan.

(SyZyGy Visuals)

[Primebase3]

wow... can everybody give a bo up for dan ? BO!!

[brain]

of course we all here are part of the game that slowly kills the planet (and a bit faster lots of people).

my point is just that people shouldn't make things easy by saying: i dont want to live up a tree; so i'm in the game anyway and now it doesn't matter anymore what i do.

i'm sure it DOES matter and that you should NEVER give up reflectin what you are doing. things and minds CAN be changed, on a personal scale - thats why everyone is responsible for what he's doing all the time.

yes my way of handling things (dividing job and the rest) might be shizophreniac - one reason why i despise "the system" is that it makes you live in contradictions.

i'm out now cause i have to prepare for playing tonite :)

[Primebase3]

well what about the coachroach theary? that man is created as a eat and destroy population . isn't the topic goin more in the politic/ecologic way ranther then looped video's and mx-50 's??

sigh ,gotta work now :o


ps : mr threadstarter of this thread , why the question in the first place: isn't it your choice rather than that the forum thinks it's ok or not ??

[eXhale]

Hmm regarding "purity" and "hypocrisy", I don't think it's possible to be completely out of the system nowadays and instead of focusing on "not selling out", it's better to see what can be achieved in a positive manner, while of course minimizing our support for that destructive system (this is really simple to do, elbows gave an example with the use of local business instead of global corporations). We are part of this world and we all have an (always underestimated) capacity to change things.

Guilt never accomplished anything, which is why I don't think that VJs who work/worked with corporations should feel "guilty" about it. On the other hand, as someone else pointed out earlier, if you never voice your opinion/concerns in your whole life and always follow the flow without questioning, it's stupid to imagine that once you "reach the top", you will change something. It just won't happen, and those who are here knows it.

[Jorjo]

HA!

A punk who fought the music industry then turned his position to influence millions.

As my first whitness i call

Sir Bob Geldoff.

No further questions yer honour. the defence rests its case.

:p

G

[Rovastar]

Just want to say Hi.



-------------------------------------------------
This post was sponsored by:
http://www.milkdrop.co.uk/images/eatbabies.gif

[Primebase3]

lol :)

[PilotX]

My word, you can't leave a thread unwatched for a minute can you? :)

Since my post somewhere towards the start much has been said, but I thought I'd through in my twopenny's worth at this point anyway.

Basically, as far as I'm concerned, my first duty is to my physical survival (food, shelter, warmth etc). Companies have most of the money, and if there's any chance of doing some pieces of work for them to fund more time to do the things that I think are (most)worthwhile - whether its visuals or political campaigns - then I'll jump at the chance.
I know of an international development accountant who will not work for 500euros a day, in order that she can afford to spend most of her time working for free for the Cornwall regeneration board. For those of you outside the UK, Cornwall is one of 3 EU objective 1 regions (the others are Liverpool and South Yorkshire).
For those of you outside the EU, this means they are very poor, and need alot of funding to stay afloat.
(some people are going to exclaim at the amount - believe me, the best people command much more. I believe she tried to get at least 700euros)

I admire anyone who follows a 'left-wing' belief that underlays the way they live their life, but there are any number of ways to do it. All of them help move the world towards a better place. There are many battles to be fought on the way, and different people will do different ones best - this does not just apply to campaigns and specifics - the manner in which a life should be led needs to be demonstrated.
But in the end, unless your on a self-sufficiency tip, you need money to live. That means companies - if not for pay, then for products.
I despise Nestle as a company for the babymilk issue, but will still buy shreddies occasionaly, as it is one of only two cereals to fill me up in the morning (the other being sainsburys bran nut flakes, for the record ;) ). Does this make me a hypocrite? No. It shows that I have different priorities. My first is always to my stomach.

Live life in a way that makes you smile :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Tom
SyZyGy Visuals

[karmavideo]

in regards to the topic...

I have always viewed my visuals as some sort of advertising for the event I was doing visuals for.

This scene is, of coarse, based around THE MUSIC, right?! Everything else, in my opinion, is added bliss of some sort.

Out of the 9 or 10 raves I've thrown, all had music, intelligent lighting, 4 had lasers (2 had full-color lasers! yea!) 1 even had inflatible rides (a 25' slide, bounce & a rock climbing repelling tower)...of coarse all except the last party I threw had karma video projections (I couldn't pay the A/V company I rented projectors from 2 weeks prior to my last show...shit happens).

Most of my event specific visuals have tried in some way to promote the music, promote the djs, promote the club, promote the production company or promote my self as a visual artist. All of this in some twisted psychedelic way, is advertsing to me.

I guess if I was offered loot to advertise in my visuals for some big corp, I'd probally do it. There are exceptions to every rule, of coarse, but I think about how many times I've done visuals and then I think about how much money I've made doing it...hmmmm not a big decision here... I'd really like to be paid well for my visual for a change.

period.

anywho... just my 2 cents worth on advertising via karma video.

http://www.karmavideo.organiccrap.com

[brain]

Originally posted by *****
HA!

A punk who fought the music industry then turned his position to influence millions.

As my first whitness i call

Sir Bob Geldoff.

No further questions yer honour. the defence rests its case.

:p

G

hmmm...

has he ever made a coke spot?
a jingle for nestl??
a mercedes promo tour?

i don't think so.
maybe i just don't know cause i don't watch TV :)

[scarab]

hi,
i'm doing this gigs together with t-cut, and this is just to clarify the situation:


1) we got some very very old coke-clips form the 60s & 70s (which are very good by the way)
2) 2 clips which also look quite good and that are very easy to handle.

we HAVE to show some clips where coca-cola is mentioned, but actually noone is controlling it (at least i never saw anybody). we never used this clips in one set, we prepared. most of the time we played the clips, when we changed the set in the software. or we experimented with the clips in videojockey or AVS -> which, by the way, made very cool stuff in the end.
percentage wise that means: 2% coke clips 98% our own stuff...whatever we wanted to play


coca-cola jsut recognized, that everyone is drinking red-bull on this kind of events and not cola anymore. that's why they started this cokefusion thing which is ment to be the cilloutfloor on these events... and they provide very good infrastructure for VJs / DJs

make up your own thoughts if you would do that....
in my opinion: coca cola is paying my equipment with offering me this gigs...... i also would prefer Amnesty international, but they would never do so....

some linked pics for you to see how it looks like:
pic 1 (http://www.cokefusion.at/upload/partypictures/large/rad18D9A.jpg)
the coke station (http://www.cokefusion.at/upload/partypictures/large/radFD55B.jpg)
coke fusion link (german site) (http://www.cokefusion.at/)

cheerio...
dirk

[Primebase3]

my opinion go for it: it looks cool and they pay your gear , like 'm or hate'm : they've got the green (no not that one) and vjing needs exposure. i said this during the avit discussions . every scene needs a hero to hate or love so that the scene can grow (especially in the uk) if that can be done with corp money so be it

just my opinion. :rolleyes:

[VjDeranged]

well said *****!