Did you rate AVIT?

[Rovastar]

OK

First off obviously many thanks to everyone for pulling it all off. We got it sorted and amazingly most things worked great.
As a get together it was a fantastic occasion and one that I think we would all go to again....maybe not arrange as much but still.:)


Now as this is going to make me greatly unpopular but those who know me know I do not mince my words.

I was disappointed by most of the visual displays/sets probably 50% I personally thought were average to poor quality and that is me being generous. I rarely looked up at the visual and was really impressed with what I saw.

From chucky clips to mid 90?s basic CG images to horribly out of time mixing (it is on a break why is it doing that, etc, etc). To be honest the projections onto the sheets instead of proper screens didn?t help really but that cannot be helped.

If this is meant to be the best visual displays that the VJ world has to offer then I am confused and disappointed and maybe a bit embarrassed (as that is how people me see the best sets) and perversely motivated.

Sadly there was no really identification of what VJ was on where which I think will helped the public.

Sadly I couldn?t do a set really/at all as I didn?t have a sound feed but did my best with the then bad/semi redundant tools I had.

Oh next time lets not have the crap slide projector things all the time. It detracts from what you are trying to do as VJ?s lets have quality not quantity. The red/white swirly thing was massive too. Whose idea was that??:(

I know some of you VJ?s agreed with me of the quality of the visuals as a whole. I know many of the punters thought so too.

I don?t want to sound like the wanker 2012 but he does have a point with the ?work harder? mentality otherwise you will need to spend what a thousand a month on a publicist for some work;)

I do not mean to sound arrogant in this thread I know I come across that way but I honest was expecting to be blow away with some top stuff and I was not, again. Sorry folks but I am still waiting to see a really quality (live not a rehearsed act (e.g Orbital set) or AV act they do not count) set.

Flame away??

[elbows]

Well considering the ambitious nature of the screen setup, I was impressed. I had no problem with the slide projectors, I dont see what harm they did and they helped fill in the gaps on the screen. In what way did they detract from the VJ's?

The large screen round the top was slightly compromised with wrinkles due to not being able to obscure the fire escape signs, but there was no other way round that issue.

Im not sure what happened with regards to VJ's names being missing from many of the displays. If its anything to do with the poor qaulity of some of the graphic recordings that I did at the last minute then I apologise. In future I think we should get the VJ's themselves to take care of their own name branding however they see fit.

By the time of the actual club event I was too tired and missed a lot of the visuals, but there was still plenty there that impressed me. I can only comment directly on the visuals which were labelled so I know who did them, of which I was particularily impressed by Prime Meridian and Palumbo.

I suppose I was most shocked by the lack of visuals being played in time with the music, but the lack of audio feeds to rigs was known in advance as the tech plan was complicated enough already. I would also say that many of the VJ's were busy for weeks helping organise the event rather than have time to put on their best sets, and several people in particular did so much on the day that it is a miracle that they had any energy left to perform at all! Many people were also working with unfamiliar equipment due to the way the rig sharing had to be done.

I suppose my biggest question whenever I see quality complaints is "what were you expecting?" The only way I see to get content that totally matches the music is to work with certain DJ's/Bands etc beforehand which makes it an AV act which you dismiss as "not counting" - not sure why!?! Realistically to me, original content creation will only improve massively when there is enough money in VJ'ing to enable people to collaborate more with film makers/ pro 3D artists and others whose speciality is content creation.

I suppose the other thing I noticed is there was hardly any use of live video used. I was very impressed by APT/WellREDman/Bruce's live stuff, I think there should be more of that kind of thing done, but them I am biased as thats the stuff I love most and I did have a tiny hand in helping with that setup. I really want a copy of that footage at some point if theres a chance :) Keep doing yer thang Bruce, and the lights in your hat really worked well with the effects - you had a chance to see it yet (I hope you guys recorded) :)

[MoRpH]

Hmmm I think that ROva will jsut never be impressed enough until he sees everyone else just doing sound re-active generative stuff that he likes, I guess its a personally opion thing, unfortunately since I wasn;t there I can't comment on the quality of the sets.

I agree there is no excuse to be strobing when the music is in a lull or vice versa, however even though I knew rova was going I had a feeling he would be the first to bitch that he WASN'T that impressed... different strokes for different folks mate. Some of us would go to gigs you might think are amazing and think it wasn't much chop, jsut a bunch of generative swirly shit mate :)

[elbows]

Originally posted by Rovastar

I know some of you VJ?s agreed with me of the quality of the visuals as a whole. I know many of the punters thought so too.


Out of interest how many punters did you ask? I only spoke to one guy when I was stuck at the bar for half an hour waiting to get served. When he found out I was with the VJ's he was suddenly very interested so I guess he was impressed. Also dont forget the "I agree factor" - ie Im sure that if I went to lots of people and bitched about the quality they would agree with me. But if I went to the same people and raved about how good it was, they would also agree :D

I went with a friend who has never seen VJ's before and he was impressed, and he absolutely hated the music but still enjoyed the club because of the visuals. I cant say I loved the music either, this is a problem for me in that a lot of club music gets on my tits after about 2 hours, and I personally thought the music started off really good and got progressively worse lol !!

[MoRpH]

BTW what DJs DID you have??? Just gimme the big names...

[syzygy]

The DJs were all new skool breaks. After the residents, we had:

Meat Katie
Rennie Pilgrem
Stanton Warriors
Freq Nasty

Basically, the music got harder as the night went on. For people like me who are into breaks, that was wonderful but for anyone who isn't into breaks it may have got a bit hard on the ear... ;)

Dan

(SyZyGy Visuals)

[MoRpH]

Hmm that would be well good, worked with most of them b4 aswell.... I like the good breaks with a nice bit of turntablism thown in :)

[syzygy]

Originally posted by Rovastar


I was disappointed by most of the visual displays/sets probably 50% I personally thought were average to poor quality and that is me being generous. I rarely looked up at the visual and was really impressed with what I saw.


There was a lot happening on the screens at AVIT, meaning that at any one time you could find your eyes looking at a number of different sets of visuals. This means that you are going to see things that you like, things that you don't like and a lot that sits in the middle.

When you are seeing lots of things like this, a person with a positive frame of mind will concentrate on the things that they do like wheras someone who is (conciously or subconciously) looking for faults will concentrate on the stuff they don't like.

No offense, Rovastar, but I think you were looking at everything through negative eyes and thus picked out the things that you didn't like (e.g. if there were 6 sets of visuals in view and 1 of them was doing something inappropriate during a break, I bet that was the one you were concentrating on rather than the 5 that were doing something more in keeping)

I have to agree with Morph that, since there was going to be so much there that wasn't the sort of thing you are into, I kinda expected you to think a lot of it was shit.

Not that I'm saying that all the visuals were superlative all night - there was a range of experience levels there (I think for some people it was even their first gig - what a first gig!) and a wide range of equipment issues. It is also possible that people were a bit tired/drunk/whatever by the time they played. Therefore, there was always going to be a range of quality. Hopefully everybody will have gained from the experience so that next year the quality will be even better.

I know you don't want to sound arrogant, but equating what you like to what is good is a really good way to come across that way.

Now, if we are talking about personal preference, I prefer visuals that are a) in time with the music beat by beat or bar by bar and b) respond appropriately to breakdowns and so on. We use midi triggering through Midivid because it gives us this sort if immediacy. You are right that some of the visuals at AVIT were not timed in that extent but I think you are wrong to write them off. I saw lots of things that were done in very different ways to us that have inspired new ideas about what we do.

I don't like computer generated visualisations as a rule - I haven't seen anything that has really impressed me in this area since the Amiga demo scene. I've seen milkdrop and it didn't exactly blow me away. Still, I won't write this sort of thing off -I know some people do like that sort of thing and there are interesting possibilities there. I was dissapointed that you didn't get the chance to show us all what you can do.

On the subject of the punters, I was filming down on the dancefloor, dancing with my camera, and two guys insisted on being filmed. We then left the dancefloor and had a bit of a chat. They were well impressed by what they had seen and were even more impressed when I told them I was involved in creating visuals.

Some girls blagged their way up onto the balconey to tell us that they thought the visuals were really good.

I hung around by the door for a while early on and heard loads of people talking about the visuals, pointing out things that they liked.

I also spoke to some of the Technique people at the end of the night and they were well impressed too.

Oops! This has turned into a bit of a long rant, sorry for that and no offense yo you Rovastar - I just think you might have had more fun if you had taken your visualisation blinkers off and looked at everything a bit more postitively ;)

Dan.

(SyZyGy Visuals)

[charlielangridge]

Having been to quite a few gigz in my time, i thought the visuals were amazing. Even if some were a bit off time, the constant vareity of so many projections added so much to the overall effect. Rova, you have got to remeber not to let your personal knowledge/views take over your view of things. So many new things were happening at any one point that the overall effect was great. I could rant off about specifics (eg sound setup, which was not as i would do them) but you have to look at the evening as a whole. The night created was a bit raw, but it was a first time, and it was pulled off better that many other firsts!

The man who makes no mistakes, makes very little!

Well done to everyone involved

[Jorjo]

Originally posted by Rovastar
OK

First off obviously many thanks to everyone for pulling it all off. We got it sorted and amazingly most things worked great.
As a get together it was a fantastic occasion and one that I think we would all go to again....maybe not arrange as much but still.:)


Now as this is going to make me greatly unpopular but those who know me know I do not mince my words.


Cheers Rova for beibg realistic. I had decided to wait till the value of sucessfully making the logistics happen before commenting that the presentation looked like a car boot sale.

as a community event it would apear to have been a sucess, but from a presentation angle, it look's from the pics to have been a horror story.
Many of the VJs here are more than entitled to feel good about what was achieved on a shoe string budget, However the overall impression of the event from whats been posted, is crass and unmarketable. Very tacky.
by all accounts a sucessful VJ event but disaster as a showcase.


Shity presentation don't improve with multiplying it.
Some of you (prolly most) will think i'm being a bastard about the event, But thats not what im saying. It looks like you all had fun and enjoyed it, but It looks like totaly amatuer overkill. in visuals less is more. the pics look like and explosion in a paint factory and I'm well aware that Pics tend to be flattering.

What the fuck was a toyota logo doing in that ?

Guys if your thinking that AVIT was more than a fun day out and embarrising as an example of what VJs could have done, theres no point in ya hoping that VJs will ever gain recignition.

Ive no doubt that there was a lot of Pro work done too, but amid that clutter and shyte who could see it?
Even on the stills some of the images are Dog ruff.

Whats the chances of the guys that where there cutting the crap and discussing what really went wrong?
(obviously the meeting of VJs was a sucess, but lets face it, 40 vjs on a bus would still be a sucessfull hook up)
Im much more curious about what you guys saw was wrong with avit and how you would do it diffrently. (howcome so many controlers = such low quality output)?
And truthfully can any of you address the issue of soft V's dedicated hardware, it look like software pixalation and rez issues didnt help some of those presentations.

curious

G

[MoRpH]

Actually I have to agree with ***** here and say the pics really do make it look quite Scrappy and hodge-podge.... however I normally attibute that to the use of flash photography as most of the ppl won't see into the black areas and just concentrate on the screens, therefore not seeing the scrappyness....

[elbows]

Im not goig to defend the event for the sake of it just because I was a part of it, but I will say criticism is easy when you have hindsight and the luxury of not actually having to deal with reality nor actually lift a finger to actually build the event.

Some factors were beyond our control, basically the clubnight could not be adjusted by us and a listed building of that shape was a challenge for sure.

I will never apologise for an event that fails to reach perfection because it was too ambitious. There is no such thing as perfection anyway. I'll post my positive suggestions for what do do differently next time in a few hours. I believe there is some need to seperate the stuff of appeal to VJ's from the stuff of appeal to the punters and would be VJ-wage-payers.

Could we have done more if sponsorship issues had been more fruitful? Of course, but in my eyes as I witnessed it unfold, it was the venue logistics which caused most of the constraints. So lets build our own venue for the next one :D

And if you want to offer well thought critique of what the event looked like, wait for some video footage at least, I dont think film critics can review stuff based on photo's eh :D

Still I value peoples honest opinions totally, so Id rather people slagged it off than said nothing.

[charlielangridge]

What do you mean by pro-rigging holly? Explain? It's pretty hard to run a multicore in what is essentially a shopping center! From a pro perspective i think it was pretty damn good! Please tell me where u thought the rigging lacked.

Sorry if this sound a bit bitchy but i was amongst many riggers, some pro, some not and we worked our comunal arse off.

You skills are welcome next time!

[syzygy]

Just one quick note - The photos you have seen so far are only from the night-time part of the event. There was a whole series of talks, demonstrations etc earlier on in the day.

I for one thought the format was really good and that the clubnight part was fantastic. Walking around the venue seeing the stuff that so many people were doing was the best part of it for me (that and seeing our own stuff projected huge on the dome roof :) )

Sure, things will be improved for the next AVIT - we've all gained valuable experience in running a gig of this scale. But surely the dicussion of what to improve can wait at least a little while though... Too many negative vibes and people might just stop wanting to make this sort of thing happen.

If you know that you don't have enough information to form an opinion then why not wait before coming across all negative? Everyone input on how to make the next one even better will be appreciated but I think the time for that discussion is a little further down the road.

Dan.

(SyZyGy Visuals)

[holly]

We're not trying to be negative. We're trying to pump you for information. Hence my suggestion for someone to "cover" the event in a journalistic way. Then you could program whatever positive spin you wanted onto the event..:D

After that, it's impossible for us not to have opinions.... You can ask, but it ain't gonna happen.:rolleyes:

I would like to hear more about the other part of AVIT. The useful non-party part.

Thanks!
Holly

[eXhale]

the event may not have been perfect but personaly i don't think it matters that much, what's important to me is that we've been able to put it up and have an amazing time. feedback would be very good for future events though (especially if it's organized in the US and most of the organizers haven't seen the first edition) but i wonder if we wouldn't be a bit more "objective" if we waited a bit. in my opinion we're still too close from AVIT to see it as a whole.

[Jorjo]

Ok.. I'm glad to see that the subject is being genuinely accepted as intended.. Ie positive observation.

Pro rigging. Sheets looped over balconies was the publics point of contact, How many riggers?1? 50? 100? whats the diffrence? badly presented remains regardless of the numbers involved in creating it.
Venue not suitable and no control? Why? if it dont float, don't launch it. In Belfast there is a saying "Ya can't polish a turd" I guess avit's pic are showing that a million projectors won't improve it either. Bad Venue is NO excuse. Not when it was possable to sling a 40 x 30 foot square truss and screen into that overhead space. No budget for that? why not? This gig looks like it was about everybody getting to do their own thing and nothing to do with the best possable result.
Hell guys i'm even sorry I missed it but that aside, this gig looks more like combined Vanity Vjing and mini rigs than a VJ showcase.

OK I'm guilty of having equipment that could have done the above as I called it. but thats only because I learned the hard way that Scale is important, A squillion club rigs do not add up to being impressive in that space, (Morph your PIC Washout theory,, Digi cam are designed to pic up light, If anything they tend to improve the look of a projection and the flash is unlikely to travel that distance effectivly) comparitively not one of those images looks higher than 2000 anci.

When your all finished thinking about the fun yaz had, Im hoping that most of ya will start to consider the limitations of office tools in large spaces. and that Point of presentation, scale, rez, sightlines, live content and real active control is more important than vanity and a chance to perform on a half baked cyberpunk montage of mismatched kit.

Audio feed. WTF??
No audio feeds? Rova has made it clear on the board that he'd need audio, and a MX50 of which I gather there where a few is next to useless without av syncro enabled. so basicly the riggers quit halfway through riggin.

BLUNT
from what Im hearing and seeing so far, The "art" was poorly presented and secondary to all the things that needed doing and didnt happen, while everybody feels good about making it happen.

As a hook up community event it had to be a success but as A gig it looks sadly lacking.

Since Ive gone this far I may as well say the rest.

One fullsize screen and one well set up VJ would have made a better impression than that scattered pile of......

Akk what the hell.. congrats folks, inspite if the odds yaz made it happen, by now some of my earlier posts will read a bit doiffrent now ya been seen and done it. Elbows mate, congrats on yer first gig. I was just as proud of my first gig and lookin back it was polly as big a mess as AVIT but smaller, ffs I still do a res thats a mess on occasion as RED has seen.
Free parties and clubland is a lot diffrent from the scale of AVIT, It needed a touch of corporate. since ya'll didnt have the budget, I guess the MADMAX version only looks bad to the trained eye.

I guess the public didnt notice.,

:) hehe, I can't help wondering how the bebate thread would go now ya'll have kissed reality on the lips in a gig where a single VJ with his lappy would a looked like an afterthought.

PLZ tell me that theres footage of the rig area looking like a bad day at NASA. That just gotta look kinda si fi scary/busy

When the novelty wears off, it should turn interesting around the forums,

Dire WARNING to AVIT goers
some of you SHOULD LEAVE the fourm NOW, don't look back and FORGET AVIT completely.

Too late.. don't say yaz wern't warned,, Welcome to the world of being hooked on a game where the toys are expensive and everybody ya meet is a deranged red eyed muttering nutter. :)


G

[Jorjo]

Originally posted by syzygy

If you know that you don't have enough information to form an opinion then why not wait before coming across all negative? Everyone input on how to make the next one even better will be appreciated but I think the time for that discussion is a little further down the road.

Dan.

(SyZyGy Visuals)

Sorry Dan I'm not tryin to rain on ya parade , Ive enough gigs behind me to get a fair Idea what this gig was like from the pics so far.
But Its over and theres one or two serious points to bear in miind

If anybody gives up over having their gig disected and honestly commented on by their peers, then it polly best that it happens before they spend a fortune on it.
In truth I reckon if Id been there in person My view here would be diffrent (for the worse) I view AVIT as a learning curve for many that where there and a pain in the arse for the old hands that orginised it. I'm more than happy to see that it was a community sucess, but to sit back and congratulate each other as though it was more than a fun rescued event as though you guys had achieved a new standard in VJing would be a shame.

Again Congrats on pulling it off at the last minute, BUT IT does LOOK like it was a last minute higly disorginised mess. FFS don't fall into the pit of turning a fantastic community effort into the icon for VJ standards. cause much as Im impressed that yaz made it happen against the odds, Id be embarresed if any gig of mine look remotly that tacky and home made.

Theres a car add running on UK TV where a guy crashes his ancient car into a wall, sits an elephant on it and hammers and welds all through the night to bash it into looking like a Puegot 106
the adds funny and the car ends up battered into the right shape. and now hes got HIS idea of a 106. Cool, him and his mates go crusin and it all kinda cute
AVIt reminds me of that add. Its only fun if you guys don't start to believe that your battered fun version of the event was doing it for real in a way that pro bookers would shell out cash for..

If yaz skip that and miss out on the hands on experience that shows why AVIT was FUN but not professional enough to market then the AVIT gig will have done more harm than the obvious good it has done in other ways.

G

[eXhale]

BUT IT does LOOK like it was a last minute higly disorginised messi know you mean "look like" but it is still quite apt to think it was a "disorganized mess" considering that you didn't take part to the event and haven't seen all the behind the scene organization. do you have any idea of the amount of messages which were posted on the avitcore mailing list??

surely the timeline wasn't easy to follow and some stuff had to be made in the last minute but i think the organizers really mastered it all (not to mention the fact it was all organized on the internet, i doubt your gigs are organized by email and chatrooms). before arriving in leeds i had no idea what it would be like but there has been no major problem and so it was anything but a "disorganized mess".

maybe better not say anything if you don't know what you're talking about.

[unjulation]

i would agree with x hear we need to let the dust setel to realy beable to ubderstand what has hapend and how well, but i will say i never imagied it as a trade shaow, it was a festival of like minded people comeing together and doing there thing.

[Jorjo]

Originally posted by eXhale


maybe better not say anything if you don't know what you're talking about.

OOOOUUUWWWWW..
Catty...
Small diffrence here X, I do know what Im talking about mucker,
IT LOOKS LIKE A disorginised mess. and It matters not one bit how much planning went into it, IT still LOOKS like a disorginised mess. and If your quite finished being offended, My point is as long as AVIT is about VJs getting a chance to play and not about professional presentation of a service, Then It won't stand a chance of making a diffrence to getting VJs Paid work in pro environments, As we all Know ANY eejit can gig a party, BUT AVIT LOOKS like a shambles and since its all about the VISUAL impact then it was a shambles. THAT needs addressing.

so ummm I guess theres no other way to say it. BUT UM If ya don't know what your talking about X,,, Best Ya ummm... Yeah..

G

[stevefromNewcastle]

Ok I have put off replying to this post long enough, and have put some 'brains' into this.

This is going to sound defensive, I apologies in advance, this is not aimed at anyone and please don't take offence.

For those of you that weren?t @ AVIT you will never understand the X-Factor that was at AVIT. No it wasn't perfect, no not all the screens lined up, no we didn't restrict who could play, but it was an amazing night, look at the other thread apart from rovastar everyone loved it.

I would like to address a few points though in General
1) What a surprise but money is an issue, in total we got less that 1/4 of the money we needed to put this show on, yet it still happened.

2) We had a great gathering of VJ?s and developers at AVit we had a discussion thread, public workshops, where the general public could play with VJ software. We contacted ever-possible manufacture, but they were all to busy or not interested. But we did have over 8 developers of VJ software, which allowed them to show their stuff. That is as good a tradeshow as any continent could manage.

3) Right from the start this was meant to be about meeting other Vj?s and having fun, just because it evolved into one of the biggest live visual events ever is a nice extra. (But was never the big focus, we were never going to stop people playing who wanted to) I was happy for anyone to play because there were 8 outputs running at once if one screen wasn't as good they could be carried, by the others. Were would we draw the line otherwise, how would decide who was good enough to play.

4) The whole thing about covering event what more do you want you have already heard about it from the people that went, you have had photos and so far you have just criticised.

I apologise about what comes next (I am not normally like this)

5) What are you on about Holly, without being at the event you will never understand how professional this set up was. We had less than 4 hours to set up, we had 150m of screen, 15 projectors, 4 scaffolding towers and 6 rigs to set up, over 1km off cable was used, we had never meet or work together as a crew, and yet we did it. That is people being as professional as is possible, I have worked with "professional crews" who wouldn't have even come close to getting this event in on time.

BTW the bar, music etc was in techniques hands and nothing to do with us.

I have to say at time it was stressful, at times hard work, but what an veining were the visuals, got more notice than the DJ, this is when VJ?s ruled the earth.
Thanks again to everyone that came and in some way contributed.
:D :nod: :p ;)

[spark]

***** - I'm going to plainly have to bring you up on that one. You don't know what you're talking about in this instance. You have a very good knowledge in this field, but you were not at the event. If you think it is professional to make such pronouncements upon seeing a few quickie little jpgs then i think the facts speak for themselves.

and just so we're clear on this, no i don't think it was as good as could be in terms of visual impact, but that's not to say it wasn't amazing... it was an immersive environment that no pic can capture

[stevefromNewcastle]

Of course we could have pushed the whole scene forward far more effectively, and helped us all to get paid in the future and gained so much respect by paying ***** 10k to come and do this all for us in a nice tidy manner.

Oh well at least we didn't waste any money on that.
(I am bitchy tonight best have a lie down now, this isn't natural for me)

Steve
:nod: :p :D :)

[wellREDman]

, to quote the website we promised 30 vj's on a 360 degree projector playground and this is what happened

no one was claiming this was a pro corporate slick job. we who took part and made it happen were professional but from the very start it was an impromptu snowballing all encompassing community happening, pulled off with limited funds and limited time in such a way as to include everyone who wanted to be a part, from the greenest rookie to the most famous vj in england.

Yes if it had been a corporate job all of us doing it would have walked away. given the lack of time and rescources to make it happen, but we didnt because it was a chance for all of us to come together and work together.

when yorkshire arts denied us the funding we'd been promised we could have pulled out but we didnt

when the equipment donated list came in and there was only one beamer over 2k we should have walked away but we didnt.

yes if we'd had a budget we'd have had a truss tower in the middle so all the beamers all shone straight at the screens but we didnt
we only had a donated scaff tower which had no outriggers, so we had to lash it to the stairs.

when we discovered we had no sponsorship because Sponsors all want six months red "lead time" (read ego massaging) yet the film festival (who donated the venue) was only 2 months away we should have bailed, but we didnt.

when we discovered the building was grade 1 listed and so we couldn't fly ANYTHING (including all our pro fastfolds) we should have chickened out but we didnt
that was not a sheet (if it was I'd like to see the bed) that was 3 professionally made, fully fire reged 50m cycloramas, custom made by the the man who dresses the albert hall.
we bodged everything we could to make our limited rescources go a long way but we did not stint in any way on health and safety and the cyc was the only safe solution solution in what has to be the hardest venue to put a show on in that Ive ever heard of.

when the list of ppl who'd applied to play came in at 30+ we could have culled it down to make our lives easier, we could have only allowed those who we'd heard of , or who had a slick demo,
but we didnt.
and considering that the only prerequisite to play was applying and being willing to pitch in with help, or money or equipment i would have expected a ratio of 10 to 1 of crud to wow factor so i think the 50% moaned about was a bonus.

I personally had a complete nightmare, the set i played of rova's stuff was nixed by technical hitches, and when i did hit the sweet spot mixing AlwaysB's LC set, i discovered that the whole thing had been just for the benefit of the ppl looking over my shoulder cos I'd lost out in the Matix switch roulette. But i didnt get upset, i couldnt because I was a part of something which was greater than any single vj's ego.

It wasnt a trade show, even though every maker of VJ software in the non japanese world had a representative there to sell their products, we set it up so they were also there giving workshops in how to use their spofts, to newbies and pro's alike.
even though the club night might have overeached itself the daytime seminars, panels and workshops were just about perfect, in scope, execution and public response.

and the reason that i took a part in this, worked hundreds of hours and risked my business, even as more and more obstacles were stacked against us was that given the choice i would rather be a part of a turd polished lovingly by a collection of my peers with stoic determination til it shines with hope, than a shiny glimmering crystal that stinks of corporate shit.

now of back to do some more vis that doesnt inspire but will keep me in business until next year when i hope to be a part of another magical community happening which will make me feel good inside.

one love
RED

[Rovastar]

Just to be clear ***** I mean VJ as in the visuals and the mixing rather than the lighting, riging organising, etc.

I was like how the fuck are we going to turn this shopping centre into a club. But it did work pretty well to say the least.

Especially for the shoestring budget it was totally class. Next time with proper sponsorship it will be different.

The stills don't do it justice at all really. Even the videos will not be able to it justice really as to being there live.

For the budget the event and the club night were great. I don?t want people thinking that I didn?t enjoy it because I did. I was just surprised at some of the VJ acts.

About the show I do know the difference between quality and style. Remember you can have both people. Why do you think you cannot?

Maybe I can just see how things could be better etc. I am always like that. I personally wouldn?t have had sheets everywhere.

Personally I think projecting detailed images onto sheets loses quality. Ironically for low res clips, etc it can make them look more detailed than they actually are.

But hey I understand the cost issues etc.

Maybe I expected more of a showcase of new top notch visual stuff to impress potential promoters / VJ?s (to inspire us) which is was not really.

(Edit Oh Red I noticed to that the matrix was a bit fubur from you rig at the time. Oh well.:) )

[eXhale]

Did I miss something or has the forum just become AVIT?this forum didn't "become AVIT", rather i think that AVIT was the perfect expression of the kind of community we are trying to setup here. it was one of the hopefully multiple projects which will came out of this community. AVIT came from a need to start being together in real life and doing things with more involvement than just posting messages on forums. i think it's really clear and simple, what's wrong with this?

red's message should be turned into a manifesto for this kind of events. and next time he should be given 2 hours to play ;)

maybe those of us that didnt go to AVIT just became second class members who are not allowed to comment on the topic or the images?errr... it has always be the plan to transcribe (?) all the discussions and speeches that have been there so that they could benefit the whole community. a complete video is also coming up with interview of VJs, spectators, etc, prepared for free by APT visuals. not to mention the load of galleries and videos coming soon. except the live feed which was unfortunately not possible this time, i don't see what more other VJC members could get? you're again completely out of touch with what's going on.

Great job guys ,,, well done,,, whys it look a mess, and did anything other than playing pretty pics happen? check the announcements which were posted on this forum earlier, as well as the http://www.avit.org.uk website and the flyer (also posted on that forum).

[MoRpH]

Originally posted by eXhale
it has always be the plan to transcribe (?) all the discussions and speeches that have been there so that they could benefit the whole community. a complete video is also coming up with interview of VJs, spectators, etc, prepared for free by APT visuals. not to mention the load of galleries and videos coming soon.

Great now this is what I'm waiting for.

[wellREDman]

pls bear in mind rova that i also didnt enjoy perhaps more than 50 % of the visuals i saw, but this is not because they were bad, it's because i have a picky attitude (i dont like to see pixels) I am well aware that it is a narrow attitude to have but it is my personal taste. But that doest mean that i judge them for not being my taste.
so be aware that what you want from visuals is not what other ppl want. you saying that they were crap is like (insert name of top notch horror film director here) saying that gone with the wind is crap cos it didn't scare him.
horses for courses mate, and a shame that we couldn't pull off live what we pulled off in the studio when we rehearsed it :)


one love
RED

[wellREDman]

Originally posted by eXhale


red's message should be turned into a manifesto for this kind of events. and next time he should be given 2 hours to play ;)

).

cheers X i did actually get to play two slots, the fact that they were other ppl's stuff that i was mixing for them was fine by me, as anyone who knows me knows for me the kicks come from the mixing and the content creation is the drag i have to do in order to get to mix, I'd far rather just be like most DJ's and remix other ppl's stuff. I just feel sorry for rova that I couldn't get to do his fantastically sound reactive visualisations justice (he'd already accepted the for him huge compromise of a mic instead of a line feed, then when we got there , the mic I'd bought crapped out on us, and i had to use a shitty mic on a camera which was far from adequate. then we lost one of his pc's. If I'd been him I'd have prolly had a hissy fit, but he soldiered on stoicly like a pro and we did the best we could under the circumstances)

also because the organising of who played where was a part of my responsibility as rig organiser i didnt want to favour myself with a set of my own on top of the two collaberations i did.


one love
RED

[videopatista]

well if certain ppl who are supposedly a "part of the community" hadn't sat smirking on their pile of barco's waiting for avit to fall on it's ass so they could gloat over their "i told you so's", but had pitched in like everyone else then maybe there would have been more high end kit available.
Professionalism is not just about practical knowledge, it's about attitude to those around you, especially those who dont have the experience you do. Arrogance towards newbies and those with different ways of doing things is not professionalism, it's snobbery
I'd like to congratulate all who pulled the AVIT thing together from what sounds like nigh on impossible conditions .
Also, ***** refers to his financial support, i certainly didn't see his name among those listed who donated despite not coming, and considering what a big shot he is i would have expected his donation to be big enuff to be worth mentioning. would any of the avit Krew care to clarify this?.

OH and the toyota logo was a part of a marvellous culture bashing set with corporate logo's superimposed on bombs falling and warplanes etc, it's just unfortunate that in that particular picture it happened to be being projected on the ceiling of the venue and all that came thru in the pic was the logo.

Sir Haslam Archduke Marmoset Ether

[videopatista]

and as for " has this forum become AVIT"

yes that is exactly the point, AVIT is/was the real world manifestation of the forums, complete with those who put into the community, and those who just sit back and talk down to others

Count Hiram Enrique Atlas Proudfoot

[robotfunk]

*****, just for the record.

AVIT didnt fall on its arse, it was quite a success in my book, especially considering it was strung together by goodwill instead of big bucks. To judge a whole event by one picture of one frame of a vj set seems a bit shallow to say the least. If you'd taken the trouble to attend you could have seen the context it was used in.

[syzygy]

No one is expecting anyone to pretend that what we did was perfect. The opinions and advice of everyone will be appreciated in making the next AVIT even better than the first.

BUT

Surely you can see that using the sort of strong terms that you have been using in this thread so soon after the event, when everyone is tired after all the hard work they put in, is bound to cause some offense.

Haven't you experienced that feeling where you have just put a lot of work into something and the last thing you need is someone talling you that what you have done is crap? After a few days/weeks, realism can kick in but what you need immediately is to know that the work was worth something.

I'm doing my best to believe that you really do just want to help make the next AVIT better by talking about and solving some fo the problems that we had this time round but I honestly think that you could take a better approach to this. Making these sorts of comments immediately after the gig, is bound to put some peoples backs up (I have to admit that this thread is really sapping my enthusiasm) and will make it much _less_ likely that anyone will want to listen to your advice.

I agree with you that we need to talk about ways to improve in the future and I'd really like future events to have the benefit of yoru exeprience. However, at the moment, I think your approach may be doing more harm than good. Being so quick off the mark with such strongly worded criticsm is getting people down and is decreasing the chances of people taking your valuable input seriously.

Do you see what I mean? Its not about pretending that there weren't things that could be improved, its about letting the dust settle and talking about problems and improvements once everyone is in the right frame of mind to do so constrictively.

Make sense?

Dan.

(SyZyGy Visuals)

[bigloose]

Even if it was not perfect... AVIT was GREAT!!!!!!
It was very good to meet everybody and everytime we're gonna do another AVIT it's gonna better!!! Now we have to learn for next time what could be better, but I think for now we can only say THANK YOU to all the people wo traveled to make it and to all the people who missed nights of sleep to make it possible.

So to AVIT core THANK YOU!!!!!!!!


Never be satisfied (but B positive), always look for something new and better, learn all the time, and DO IT!!!!

b!gl00z3

[vjpixylight]

hey, Big shouts to everyone involved in such a major VJ event!!!
I know from doing the Psychic Chakra, that setting up a major VJ event like this is alot of work, and that not everything is going to be perfect and professional looking...(specially on a low budget)
the pics look great of AVIT BTW...

That said, it seems to me that it was more of a free for all, than an event to help VJ's get bookings and plublicity.

I think that some of the ppl from this thread were a bit hard on the event because it didn't do enuf on the business side of VJ booking, press, and finding agents and publisists...

A few of us over here in the States and Canada, are working on putting something together along these idea's; to do more for VJ's than just providing a showcase for their performance...

I think that we as a collective should be trying to build this side of the business, so that when promoters go to look for DJ's for their events, they will also be turned on to a whole variety of VJ's, MJ's, and live AVPA's...this can only be done if we get together as a collective to promote all of our VJ member's strengths and talents...

With more and more electronic music labels now looking at producing AV DVD's and tapes, this shouuld be our #1 prioity!!!

Again, Hats off to all you guys and girls who are doing something to promote our art...

[elbows]

Anyway the calm reply is simply that we havent had a chance to collate all the details yet into a nice article. It was always the plan to do that, and it still is, just please bear with us. I think the idea was to use a lot of video too to make it seem like you were there, the whole thing was community based so believe me we really wanna share everything with everyone as soon as it can realistically be done.

[wellREDman]

holly if youd actually read all the posts and had a bit of human compassion in you you'd understand that at least 20 of us have been giving up hundreds of hours a week to make this community thing happen, and all we've got from it from those who werent a part of it has been slagging off, yes ***** can be abrasive, but at least his criticism of it was partly justified about the scrappy looking ness of it in the pics
do you really think that after the mammoth efforts we put in to this we arent justified to have a few days breather, not to mention catching up on all of our own businesses which have been put aside for the last few months.
Even if wed got straight on the documentation straight away after getting off the turbus without stopping to sleep we'd still be weeks away from collating editing down all the footage there were hundreds of cameras happening.
I will repeat again THIS WAS NOT SOME CORORATE COCK SUCKING EXCERSIZE this was a vj symposium organised by VJs with VJs for VJs
Yes there were software manufacturers there but we made sure that they were not just selling their products but were running workshops and answering questions in how to use their software, all of which has been documented both audio and video to be used as a rescource for VJC
the same goes for the panel discussions and the showcases in things like hardware and history of video art.
there was a roving camera crew and interviewer who did their best to interview everyone who took part
there was time lapse footage shot of the setup/ breakdown, from 2 angles
there was at least 10 other cameras shooting everything officailly and i dont know how many others running abput the place

all of which will be available to the vj community thru VJC as a rescource available to everybody, for free
all of this was done by us at our own personal expence and not inconsiderable time
and you expect it to be available to you immediately
and when you dont get it you start bleating about male egos and masturbation. this really upsets me because one of the nicest thing about the whole event was the way that everyone put their ego's aside and mucked in together, from the newest newbies to the most famous vj in england
as anyone in this group will tell you i am one of the most reasonable and placatory personalities on the forums
but all i can say is
GET THAT PRETENTIOUS DEMANDING CHIP OFF YOUR SHOULDER AND ACT LIKE A HUMAN BEING WITH A REAL ATTENTION SPAN
we have done all this work for the benefit of the community including you and will finish it off in our own time once we've put our lives and businesses back together and spent some time with the partners who havent seen us for the last few months
sorry to shout but you really got me riled up

one love
red

[holly]

That sounds like quite a production, Red! Time-lapse and everything? That'll definitely take awhile -- maybe months.... Certainly I never asked for a full-length multi-media documentary like that in a couple of days! (But THANKS BIGLOOSE for already doing exactly that and doing it so FAST while the topic is fresh!!! You are what the internet is all about!!!:cool: )

I was actually only hoping for something a little simpler, maybe a few brief press releases..., maybe from someone who wasn't already too busy VJing.... Or maybe just some info about the seminars.... THAT"S ALL. No one seems to want to discuss that so maybe that was a very minor part of AVIT or maybe it just wasn't very important to the attendees. Don't worry. I deleated all the other references in this thread where I asked about seminars and press releases. I won't bother to ask again since the topic offends so many.

Again I was never knocking AVIT, I was just expecting a different kind of event than what you are all currently describing. I guess I have an arrogantly American view of why industry people would get together. You've set me straight on this issue though, Red. AVIT is not about VJ products or anything remotely corporate. In fact, corporate sponsorship is wrong -- even when the companies make VJ products. Kriel told me that once. Clearly it was my bad to think otherwise. Silly American me. I suppose I might not have gotten much from attending AVIT if that's the case, but thanks for letting me know what I should expect from this community that worked so hard putting on this show for my benefit. ***** was right when he said the forum is now about those who attended AVIT and those who didn't.

As I said before, I'm glad everyone had fun! That was all it was really about, right? If everybody got the chance to show his stuff then it must have been great! What was important was that everybody got to put on a really excellent cool non-cock-sucking show. Rest up, guys:zzz:. You did a great job. Yay!

Grand Mistress of Presumption
Holly.

[eXhale]

some of those who weren't there seem to see AVIT as a normal club night with some VJs getting together. i haven't been to much events, yet i never heard of anything of this size. not for the number of VJs from all around the world, the number of projections, the size of the building and the number of challenge involved (no funding, no sponsorship, organized by internet, regular screens being not possible, etc).

and most importantly, it has been a great way for members of this community to get together. one month before the event, when we started to see we were in deep troubles, ***** talked on the chatroom about organizing a similar gig in dublin all by himself. i'm not sure it would have been the same. :rolleyes: the UK members seem to be so close now that, despite their great tiredness after this first AVIT, they are already talking about future events where they will be able to get together again. and there is nothing to feel jealous about this fact since everyone is invited to make the same community effort in their own country/continent, so that we can all get to know each other. and this can be only good for the future of the art of VJing, since communication will occur in a more meaningful level.

as for holly's comment, yes i admit i never really built vjcentral in the idea of setting up a website for the "VJ industry". and if there is no profit involved on that website, it's for a reason. overall it all makes it less profit-oriented because it brought people who were less profit-oriented. i don't know how it's going to be like in other AVIT but i'm pretty impressed by what has been achieved in the UK.

(regardless, VJ and developers should only benefit economically of such communication.)

[elbows]

Asking for press releases and more info offended nobody. Other long gone comments regarding your opinion of the participants did, its as simple as that. Done correctly of course there is nothing wrong with corporate involvement, though its hard to match it up with some of the more not-for-profit aspects of what took place at AVIT1.

You can think of the event as a test if you like, if it achieved nothing more than giving us some more ideas for next time, getting to meet people, see how other people VJ and have some fun, then I dont think thats bad value for money. Nobody ever said we did the event for your benefit, it was idealistically supposed to further the cause of VJ's and the community as a whole, but I dont think anyone should have expected that to happen in a grand way through a single event.

Its progress, it was certainly better than no event. If you have an idea for something more sleek and marketable, then do it, go for it, we'll all be ready to help in any way we can. Honestly there are enough large mountains to climb on this path of VJ evolution without in-fighting making things worse.

Honestly you come across as if we have let you down, well Im sorry but im not sorry, I cant help it if you hope for more and then get disapointed. You told me that some of the more outlandish words on your website were basically hype to get funding, well thats the nature of hype, thats why there is a song that goes "dont, dont dont dont believe the hype muwahrahaha"

And about this great new divide that has allegedly appeared between those who AVITed and those who did not, purlease, all divides are created by the human mind. You can look at it how you want, its your brain, but its certainly nothing to do with anybody else if you choose to think that way. This event excluded nobody who wanted to be a part of it, I cant help it that you werent there or that your vision was of something else.

Anyway, in my eyes this thread says more about human nature than AVIT so far, and nobodies reaction is unsurprising really, its down to each person as to what energy they want to bring to this. believe me I am a hypercritical person, and every day I fight against this to try to stay positive enough to lead a relatively happy life. But I start my critiscisms with me - I could spend the rest of my life full of regret, ifs and maybe's, I can give myself a hard time for months about things I didnt do perfectly regarding AVIT. But what does it achieve? bad feeling, which is not something of use to anybody to me.

Going back to corporates, tehres a vicious circle. Lets face it, they will do things for publicity or for money at the end of the day. I guess they dont smell money in this field as dont most VJ's at the moment, and it will take a forward-thinking company marketing personage or a lot of hype/sweet talking to get them to play ball. Your suggestions on the positive feedback thread are great, and these things are what help us all. If you can tell me the benefit to anybody of tainting the AVIT image with harsh and unuseful words here, or of going off on some masturbation related rant about the participants, then I'll think again about what you post was designed to achieve.

We all have slightly different views of what a VJ is, what it shoud become, what types of entities to approach for cash, which elements of VJing we personally love and want to push forward. Diversity is good, tarring everyone with the same brush is bad. Community requires compromise, if you have precise ideals about every element of an event then it should be your event not a community thang.

I dont see too much over-defensive posting going on here, in general the whole thing has been far more open and honest than virtually every other event Ive ever heard of. Critiscisms with basis are listened to and reasons why things happened the way they did are explained, all of which takes time. If you were being completely ignored then I could understand better, but I guess its the general postings here of a few people that sounded like they were saying we failed them somehow, which has slightly sunk the hearts of those who were involved.

At the end of the day talk is cheap, which makes me very cheap as talking is what I spend so much time doing :D This was a thing, it came to life, even if it was not the saviour of the VJ species, who ever said it would be?

If you have an idea to create something specific, get cracking, you'll find loads of people here who are only too willing to help where they can :)

Part of the problem as usual is the nature of the internet as a communication medium, and some tweaks to the design of the AVIT forum now that the event is over is a good idea if you ask me.

[holly]

we have done all this work for the benefit of the community including you
Nobody ever said we did the event for your benefit
----
The opinions and advice of everyone will be appreciated in making the next AVIT even better than the first.

I'm far too tired to even read posts about avit from people who weren't there, so I've just been skipping them.

----
overall it all makes it less profit-oriented because it brought people who were less profit-oriented.
Next time with proper sponsorship it will be different.
----
every maker of VJ software in the non japanese world had a representative there to sell their products
We contacted ever-possible manufacture, but they were all to busy or not interested. But we did have over 8 developers of VJ software, which allowed them to show their stuff.
----
i don't see what more other VJC members could get? you're again completely out of touch with what's going on.

You're right. I'm completely out of touch. It was frustrating for a while, but it seems pretty irrelivant now that I have a better idea what AVIT was about. The forums have made it all so clear. :scared:

Have fun at AVIT2! ...or *****fest1, which ever comes first.:D

[PilotX]

Alright. I've been laid up in bed since Sundaywith a nasty cold, so I've only skim read the posts on this thread just now.
If I misrepresent anyones views in the points I'm going to make then I apologise in advance.
First off, I'm going to surprise you G - if everyone looks at his reply ot me letting him know that the rigging got done in time (I believe his reply was 'thank f**k for that') it will tell you that he wanted it to go well.
Secondly, It's all a learning curve - we've learnt that an ovular venue will provide technical difficulties that are not surmountable with 4 hours to rig the first time round - if the corn xchange is used again (and I loved the venue) then the problems can be taken into account and solutions hopefully provided for next time.
Thirdly, why r ppl having a go at ***** for not being there? If he had a previous commitment, then there is no way that he should let them down.
Fourthly, It is important to realise that NO gig will ever be perfect. There will ALWAYS be problems. The important thing is to recognise those problems and try to find ways to solve them for the next time. If you solve those, then next time different problems will appear.
Finally, although it is important what the promotors thought, it is more important what the punters thought. Speaking to people at the night, they were, by and large, very impressed. No-one had seen anything like it before, and most wanted to know if there was another one planned. They will go away from the night talking to their mates, and this is only a good thing.
The use of the corn xchange, despite the fact that it meant the presentation could not be the best was a stroke of genius. The best venues are not purpose built clubs. These are invariably boring. The best ones are a normal building transformed.

Remebr - those involved in the organisation of AVIT only had a few months this time round. For the next one there should be more time (and yes, I am volunteering to get more involved).

Tom
(SyZyGy Visuals)

[MoRpH]

Hmmmmm *****fest1 huh??? and that would be organized on *****central.com :p

[elbows]

Originally posted by holly

You're right. I'm completely out of touch. It was frustrating for a while, but it seems pretty irrelivant now that I have a better idea what AVIT was about. The forums have made it all so clear. :scared:

Have fun at AVIT2! ...or *****fest1, which ever comes first.:D

OK fair enough, I see where you are coming from I think, and Ive never tried to pretend that things are/were perfect.

When I said that it wasnt supposed to be for you, I meant only that unless you actually put forth ideas and/or other input into the creation of the event, how could it possibly achieve something that satisfied you? I dont even know how much you read about it beforehand, so my point is simply that I wont feel bad if the event didnt please the world because no event ever can.

If a few people have skipped lengthy reviews by people who werent there, because they are tired due to international travel, then I hardly think that can be taken as a sign that the views of non AVIT1 go-ers are going to be ignored. They arent, and I cant say that any louder or phrase it any different, its simply true.

If I didnt give a poo about what anybody else thought then I wouldnt be in here typing words all the time. I aint particularily trying to defent anyone/anything nor attack anyone in particular, Im just trying to explain as best I can.

And for sure theres contradicitons, there are probably quite a few within just 1 of my posts, let alone mix and matching soundbites from different people. It goes back the diversity thing that I mentioned.

Its the same old internet argument style, ignore all the valid stuff, overlook those who are quite happy to accept fault and listen to critiscism, and focus on the negative. There must have been some tiny thing in my last post which you would accept as valid, yet none of that stuff is ever acknowledged. Well, nope I aint gonna be wasting energy on this vicious circle again, Im sure we can all spend our time more usefully focussing on doing things. I mean, you tell me what I can possibly say or do that would please you here?

[eXhale]

Holly and ***** obviously haven't followed up what's going on with AVIT before the event (no idea what was on the programme despite this was all made public before on this forum and on the website) but yet now they tell us how much they care about it? Ideas and help would have been much needed *before* the event, but of course ***** would have only helped us if we had given him total control on the event, which was not going to happen considering what we are trying to achieve here.

Feedbacks are good, especially from those who actually have an idea of what was going on at AVIT, but it's this arrogant attitude which is pissing people off. We have no departement for customers complaints here, if you feel that AVIT wasn't as good as you expected, you're invited to make the next one better. Talk is cheap, ***** repeated it enough on this forum. The organizers of AVIT1 did the best they could given the challenges involved and we will hopefully learn from our mistakes to make the next one even better.

[rossco]

Damn right X

- Everyone did their best; riggers, vj's, organisers and all the rest who helped.

- There are ALWAYS areas to be improved upon, and this discussion usually happens now i.e after the event with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight!

- it's my beleif that the People who were involved with AVIT have the right to be critical, whilst others should politly offer constuctive critiscsm.

this whole forum and the AVIT gig were the result of individuls combined efforts it was a GREAT ACHEIVEMENT :nod:

at the end of the day it goes to show what people with a POSITIVE ATTITUDE ;) can do.



peace, love & light

rossco

[holly]

Please take a breath. Hold it for 2 seconds. Now let it out.

I wasn't there. I don't care about the party or how things were hung (that was G and Morph). I asked for info about the seminars. No one had any answeres. That's ok. Really. I said maybe next time someone who wasn't busy could do quick summeries of some of the seminar, producty stuff for vjc. Sometimes people do that. It's cool for those who weren't there to get some idea of what was going on -- not word for word stuff, just like summeries or "this person spoke and showed a product".

Most all the posters were busy at the time of the seminars/etc. That's ok. I know how crazy fun social setting up this stuff is. But suddenly I was accused of critisizing the event and everyone was yelling at me. So I suggested that maybe someone next time could be the vjc rep at AVIT so people who check the site everyday could get little satisfying bits of info, however small. Next time, ok?

Then everyone was yelling at me again, but still noone had any of the info I thought was important for vjc. but it was all about who played what and why were there so many pixels and everyone is too tired to give out that info. I was beginning to wonder if anyone actually had that info or if that part of the event even happened. There's more, but basicly avit seemed very self-serving from this end and I didn't see why it was critisizing the "show" to say that someone needed to be there at the seminar "educational" part of the event. To me the two seem unrelated. Educational vs party. I don't see any problem with having both. It's just that if everyone is too busy with the show, then there's no attention to the seminars so why have them at all?

I have since been told that everything was recorded (but it took a while between the FUs and the HowDareYous). So it makes sense why noone paid attention at the time because the camera had it all. Plus, most of the participants are probably thinking they're alittle more advanced than that to need to sit in on such. That's cool and I totally agree -- but there are newbees asking the same dumb questions everyday on vjc, so not everyone is at the same level. You can understand that, right? I'm not asking for this info for myself, I'm asking for it for vjc.

I don't think people really want to wade through direct transcripts on the web. I think that might be too much information for VJC. Maybe full-length movies are a big download for people who don't have DSL connections, too? I'll probably flamed for being critical. So what. I didn't get involved months ago because I wasn't on vjc months ago. I'm trying to get involved now. If anyone wants to send me an audio tape of any seminar info, I'll gladly transcribe and summerize and post on vjc. Believe it or not this "community" is not about a few people who put on a show and everyone else being critical. As my previous post of quotes showed, everyone is saying something different and sometimes what is said is contradictary. That's ok. We're all individuals. It doesn't matter.

Nobody expects you guys to do everything yourselves. If I pointed out a thin spot in the organization/event, it's only because that was the part I was interested in. Not that I wanted to point out thin spots or say the whole event was "bad". All you heard was critisizm. Eventually that was all I had in me. Dealing with you guys is like pulling teeth. All you hear is attacks, but you don't hear the honest questions. If we were in person maybe it would be easier to see I'm trying to help (not charge you 10k for rigging or organize my own event!), but maybe it would also be easier for me to learn that there ARE recordings of the earlier parts of AVIT. I had to fight just to learn that!

Again, volunteering here: if anyone wants to send me an audiotape (not video since I'm guessing there will be PAL NTSC issues) I'll do the summerizing as best I can and post to vjc. Then you can get back to being with your partners and having a good rest.

Whatever. How dare I tell you anything. blah blah blah. I really don't care either way. Just stop telling me how arrogant I am. I'm not the one in charge of booking who booked myself vj-ing twice. Arrogant and self-serving indeed.

Holly.

[elbows]

I took a breath for much more than 2 seconds before replying here :)

I dont think we appreciated how quickly people would want such information available. Everything you have asked for will come, in a variety of different forms :) Full videos, short clips, full transcripts and short summaries are I think all going to happen. But in order to do it in a way thats actually useful, its gonna take a while.

I heard your honest questions, did I not answer them then as best I could? And in regards to you being attacked, what did you really expect after your disgusting post about us all being ikkle kiddies masturbating over our kit?

I was most interested in the workshop & talk parts of the event too, and I'll tell you honestly now that I dont think we left enough time to do that side of things too effectively. It was nice to see software and meet people and have a little chat, but I dont really recall any of the products being covered in depth. Quite a lot of the workshop stuff was informal with individual people asking the developers to show them some feature etc, so I fear there is no record of those exchanges. I missed the discussions in the bar, but at the end of the day event there were talks by 3 people about the VJ scene in general, and these will certainly be documented and they had some interesting content.

By the way nice cheap pop at wellREDman at the end there - NOT - do some research before making such stupid accusations.

[holly]

Sounds like you have it covered and don't need any help. No more from me on the subject.

[elbows]

Im not saying that at all, its not my side of things so Im just trying to answer your questions as best I could. The offer is certainly appreciated anyway, not sure if we have audio or only video tapes though.

All I'll be doing is a writeup on what I did at the event, along with more details on the I-CubeX midi interface and visualJockey. Basically it will be "what I would have done at AVIT if there was more time and Id had more than 2 hours to try the ICubeX before the event"

[eXhale]

Holly: Truth is, some organizers have "skipped" the AVIT forum after having read some of the insults you posted here a few days after the event. They are a bit disgusted, so do not expect them to answer all your questions and requests right away, they don't "OWE" you anything, especially not after what you said.

So just calm down, there is no need to put pressure on people who have known nothing but pressure in the past weeks. It has always been the plan to make everyone benefit from this event. I don't see what's the big deal if we have to wait several weeks before seeing the content transcribed, it's not going to mean the end of the world.

Check out the US-based AVIT thread too, for the next AVIT event possibly organized in Chicago. Maybe you can help them to setup an event which will be more of your taste... But if you don't participate, don't complain if it's not as you imagined.

[krezrock]

congratulations guys. i hope to see some of the documentation of the workshops.

***** makes some good points.

no one is to blame, just look at how presentation reflects on the community. learn from people who have experience.

i know there's a difference between AVIT and the vj's.net event at ocean. But i hope you all can see the difference in production value. (i don't pay close enough attention if there were people involved in both productions).

i don't have a kit beyond my mixer and cams. but i do have a gig this sat. in the past i would go to the hardware store and get a dropcloth, and staple it to the ceiling and walls. but it reflects on your presentation big time, therefore i'm going to make an effort to get off my ass and go get a nice screen and some stands. even if you can mix your ass off it doesn't matter if your presentation is less than standard. hey look at mr./ms. eyecandy get all the gigs.....well, duh!! his/her screens look better.

on a side note: we did 360 degree screen on tour, 6 christies with wide angle lenses. 15 feet throw distance rear proj. even with all projectors running through mesh warps, it was extremely difficult to get the aspect ratio and seams blended. even the big boys can't do it perfectly. but you have to pull it off so the client can't see any flaws!!! and once the client has to solve your rigging issues they lose all confidence.

For ***** it must be frustrating putting years of work into doing this as a professional and stepping back to see it become the cool thing to do. but he can't be wack police everywhere so what do you do? understand the p.o.v.

This just makes me realize that my dreams of organizing an event as a vj is just impossible (for me). It has to be a collaboration with outside forces that are willing to support vj's. sheesh in la it's hard enough just getting people to understand what i do. but when it comes to getting the gigs, they usually go for the guy that has the kit to show and prove. and that usually means.....he's using tape loops!! bah.


-az



Originally posted by *****
Dan
all good points.

Im mid a very basic small rig on a mid week disaster gig ruined by a last min venue change.
The gig is 3 screens one centre screen landscape and two 8x6 portrate, Its also a total mess.

I openly invite members to look at the pics and compare ONE very Poor quality half finished very basic VJ layout to what the public saw at AVIT.
From this you will see that im not being a snob, nor am I being over critical, Am just asking how some you can consider the AVIT gig as "setting a new standard" sure it was done on the net, sure it was done on a buget, and sure it was a lot of effort. BUT it was offered to the public as VJs working and as such it was presented as quantity not quality. Nothing about how or why It was a mess reached them, what they saw is what they got.
and what they got was the Standard that the board consider GOOD. In reality the fourm may have had a total orginisational success, but the only important/relevent part is what was offered to the public was NOT Good enough.

Givin the combined efforts and numbers of VJs involved, I wrongly expected the community to reach a presentable standard of quality. If you lot genuinely think that AVIT was As good as it gets or special because there was quantity instead of quality, Then with Truthfullness and honesty, I can only think you guys are kidding yourselves that you will succed as VJs or that you achieved anything more than a multi VJ jammin session.

Since AVIT was first mentioned, the story was that AVIT would show the market what VJs are about.

Its time to grow up and realise that avit was not impressive, and that its probably the worst representation of VJing that Iv ever heard of. Go on, attack me for telling you it straight. AVIT is not going to do anything to help anybodys reputation,
And worse, you guys are refusing to see it.

So many posts on here about DONT SELL OUT, or Club owners/ Promoters are the enemy. Grow up ffs, promoters are your client base and AVIT was to scrappy to impress any club owner or promoter.
What signals did it send? Its ok to project onto any old thing?
its ok to use crap grafix, it takes an army of guys and nasa's control room to achieve it? The first thought a promoter would have is MTV on the three gun in the lounge looks no worse and takes up less space
Scale is the key. More is not better. quality scale up to suit the event is the only marketable option.
SO yeah guys I'm disapointed in AVIT. Im disapointed in the apparent low standart of presentation and the low standars of "ART" thats been presented as highlights on the board. and Im dissapointed that Iv been listening to the Arguments many members have put forward to claim they are the NEW skool and there ART is WOW. only to find that you dropped the ball and the overall standard is poor. What really clinched it was Rova starting this thread. Rova wanted to see VJing at its best and came back feeling underwelmed.

Go ahead lads let it rip. attack me all ya want, it no longer matters, You gave it your best shot, ya dint impress ROVA by your VJ skills and Ya have shown nothing so far that hasnt made me cringe.. SO far the only ppl that your impressing is yourselves.

So before you all decide to post your rants at this. Im watching for those of your whit enough sense to realise That AVIT was a learnig curve and a lesson in what needed doing. Perhaps those that saw where it was lacking will still be around in a few years time with investment and skill to provide a VJ service while the wannabies kidd themselves untill their fad wears off and they go get everyday jobs.

Go ahead folks, download and take a look
if ya think its more than you can do then spare me your rants cause this Is a shyte layout on a shyte gig and anit impressive to me , the promoter or anybody whos gign for real.
and if ya reckon VJing is about just havin fun. then still spare me your rants cause its a my fulltime profession and I cant be arsed listening to ppl kidding themselves about a job they know nothing about.
Worse still that some of you cajoled hard working serious VJs into contribiting so much time and effort into an event that succeded in fulffing egos but resulted in amatuerish overkill for its public face.

so before ya'll decide its time for a public hanging, How many of you truthfull know Im calling it straight?
and howe many of you realise truthfully that though Im impressed that you pulled it off, that it didnt forward VJing, and only made you guys happy?
This is not a post I had intended to voice, I'm doing so because Ive finally had enough. Im here mid rig, having a coffee and pissed off being attacked in a VJ forum. by a some of you guys that giged less in their life time than Ive giged in the past month, never mind the past 5-6yrs
so X delete me if you wish for being unimpressed.

it no longer matters much.
For the rest of you.
m not kidding myself, Ive earned the kit, and the work.
I can go out and VJ as it stands or I can cange to suit the forums Ideas and be out of work.
What Im I being attacked for exactly? equipment? experience? Work? professional full time VJ? telling anybody thats trying to tell me that Im ALL wrong?
Lets lay it on the line. lets have the next post from a VJ that can match what Iv achieved in this industry.. Im not better than any off you, but since Im getting it right, sitting here with pro kit and plenty of work form my own efforts, LETS have the next post from ANY members that can say something from an equal position.
otherwise Im listening to crap from offended talkers who have nothing to back it up.
Lets see.. Who will be the first to JUST RANT for the sake of it and Ignore the fact that AVIT was no good enough and theres More work to be done.

[Jorjo]

Originally posted by krezrock
congratulations guys. i hope to see some of the documentation of the workshops.

***** makes some good points.

no one is to blame, just look at how presentation reflects on the community. learn from people who have experience.

i don't have a kit beyond my mixer and cams. but i do have a gig this sat. in the past i would go to the hardware store and get a dropcloth, and staple it to the ceiling and walls. but it reflects on your presentation big time, therefore i'm going to make an effort to get off my ass and go get a nice screen and some stands. even if you can mix your ass off it doesn't matter if your presentation is less than standard. hey look at mr./ms. eyecandy get all the gigs.....well, duh!! his/her screens look better.

on a side note: we did 360 degree screen on tour, 6 christies with wide angle lenses. 15 feet throw distance rear proj. even with all projectors running through mesh warps, it was extremely difficult to get the aspect ratio and seams blended. even the big boys can't do it perfectly. but you have to pull it off so the client can't see any flaws!!! and once the client has to solve your rigging issues they lose all confidence.

For ***** it must be frustrating putting years of work into doing this as a professional and stepping back to see it become the cool thing to do. but he can't be wack police everywhere so what do you do? understand the p.o.v.





Thanx Krez.

Since joining this board, and as you say seeing VJing become cool. It is very frustrating to see ppl ignore lessons that old skool learned years back to get the scene this far.
And as you say Too many of the old skool have stayed stuck in the past with tape loops. I has been my hope that the new skool would take the old wisdoms and move them forward, unfortunatly that isnt likely, I'd hoped that AVit would have ADDED fresh methods and results to the existing industry wisdom but have been left with the feeling that it was made up of shortcuts.
Its not my intention to police the industry, But i don't Intend to sit back and watch other VJs fail just because their not experienced and are making it up as they go. Theres simply no need for that.
Not when those of us who have been there are offering a leg up.

So I guess the most frustrating thing is Knoing that the pro market has tryed every possable shortcut avalable so far and that If I point out why shourtcuts failed I get slammed for it by beginners. My view is that the beginners may be the fresh ideas that move things forward, yet for every good idea there are 50 bad or misguided cheap options that are lower than the grade expected by those booking us.
Krez man you have no idea how worthwhile being a member here becomes to see you post that you see value in investing in your rig to up your quality to competitive presentation standards. Quality kit will payfor its self and bring you the work. Only then is there a chance to forward the face of VJing with your work (your post shows that you already know this) Good luck, If ever you have any cause to ask someone who been out there a while anything that may help you in anyway feel free to ask me.
Yeah its frustrating to see a trade that needs more Vjs working to the standard demanded by the bookers becomeing a cool hobbists domain. But guys like you give me hope that a professional service can be developed and expanded globaly to increase the need for what we do and can add to an event.
Cheers and respect Krez.

In the midst of this Iv had a genuine laugh.

***** fest 01 LMAO

ummm whats on of those.
If it where I spec the gig suppliy and rig the whole thing and then VJ it, We have a problem with the 01.. Pick a year and we will count it from there, from the start of the year were prolly closer to 101.

What did I offer?
AVit? 10k to set the whole thing up pro.. (and sub out an exosting booking)
A truck load of equipment free If I became available.
and a Head to head set up by me at a later date if anybody felt they where up to it.

I guess that AVIT aint impressing me since its just another gig, maybe the members need to prove to themselves that they could do it, (maybe I overlooked that since I took it for granted that As VJs you already knew ya could) the level of excitement that yaz did it, implies that ya didnt really think ya could. what was so difficult? its not like there was really anythng more to the club night than riggin and playin. Ok so ya had a squillion Vjs, was that important? or was quality presentation important?
Cheers folks for setting the public face of VJing back to the early 90's at the culb night.

Was there real success from the rest of AVIT?

Oh one more thing. some members dont want to be judged by the pics and footage, reality check. you posted them as examples. and as examples they stand. my comments are based on the examples you guys posted, there is nothing to support that AVIT was diffrent on the day. I allowed the benifit of the doubt till Rova posted his impression from having been there and it matched exactly what I suspected from the pics.

So Im being negitive?
Ok heres positive.
X set up a board that brought us into contact and was commited enough to fly in for avit along with lev and otheres.
Thats commitment. Red, Rova, Unji etc all bust there balls to make it happen as did elbows and the rest. That shows commitment.
Steve , jimmy and so many others bust there balls to make it happen.

No it look like it would be worht while if I get a break to hire a venue, employ a promoter and set up a pro event knowing you guys are prepaired to commit to a gig.
Those of you that feel AVit was perfect and would not have been better for having pro screens and heavy duty beamers, Are entitled to your view.

Guy like Krez who have abandoned STAR VJ egos to see their limitations and decide to do something about it, Are the pros of the future. Krez taking responsibility for his GIG, and Knowing that theres more to it even if he don't have that experience YET, is exactly what Makes a VJ who will be a success in the making..

So yeah Krez, I appreciated your post more than any other so far on this forum.
You many not yet have the experience or the equipment, but your reasoning is as pro as it gets, much as ya dont have the tools , ya know whats needed and why. Its where I was a few years back and I can tell ya that the road ahead aint easy but its direct and positive. Don't worry that yer thinking that your need outside forces and that orginising an event is impossable. Every gig will force ya to do that little bit more to get it closer to what you know is needed to be right. Just as It happened with me, Ya'll wake up one morning and wonder where the hell all this kit came from and how come theres no guy standing there to do the rest. It evolves and Ya pick it up, till suddenly ya realize that ya got a list of ppl in yer phone that do X BIT, and an event is done with ten calls. X marketing , X prpmoter, X security, X caterer, X venue/marquee, X venue, X accountant, X production co, X sound crew, X lighting, X riggin. Then ya add up the costs and figure the worst case ? per head, and the gig is on.
Why? cause ya can, it nothing to do with VJing, it just that theres guys are ppl ya find ya have worked with so often that ya realise then nomatter who puts the event on these crews are likely to be there.
the lighting crew for example Have X kit avalable and want it out working. Problem solved, It dont need any extra orginising, Phone call . Ohy "ANDY ya busy on the 18th" naw why? "price me a gig in X venue" ?x,?Y,or ?z, "ok mate pencil it in while I price the rest for fesability". Ok no problem, get back to me and confirm.
Nothing difficult about it, so Krez its not impossable, it just your not on the list of ten in the phone for the other crews yet, 99% of my work is booked backstage by some lunitc artzy producer who thinks he's doing something new getting hooked up with one pro crew and that crew realising that if the event is to work the rest of the pro crews will be needed to make it happen. whaen the lampys. and the riggers and the noize boyz here there's a VJ needed they reccomend the crew that gets results.
Think of it this way. every area has event crews that work well under pressure, each crew know form past events what the other crew has (roughly) and what they can do. cost effectiveness means that every event in that area will use those crews in some combination. its like the gig is already sorted and needs only someone to put it on, That someone always thinks their doing orginising it all, whan in reality all there doing is asking tha crews to come and do whats needed, and the crews Know exactly whats needed from past events together. Once your VJ outfit is seen as part of the pro event solution units, You will be having problems keeping up, and be buying the stuff that ya need as ya go (while earning, It hard at the start but once know or recomended to the high end suppliers, ya can pretty much go in any take what ya need for events and pay for it after the gig) todays gig caused me a problem and I need to rescue it or walk away. I grabbed a new sharp wide from my supplier and the gig went on. Basicly I dropped profit to nearly nothing but gained me a sharp beamer. He'll get paid when I do, and is just happy that he got a sale from a regular customer. (when ya buy those screens mate be sure to let them know that you WILL be back for more sometime)
It's not difficult mate. Your current thinking will get you up into the local event crews as a problem solver for the VJ side of a gig and the rest will be up to you. Bet yar ass that those already doing tha sound and lights will welcome you if your thinking is about pro results and not about stardom

Cheers Krez for me your post is more positive than the AVIT event
.
*****.

[murph]

My impression of the AVIT event was never to be some super showcase for the best in VJing. For that we'd need a hell of a lot of money and the involvement of people who have better things to do with their time. Pro VJing is supported by large events with lots of cash to throw around, not by grassroots efforts done for fun. We've established this before.

I always saw AVIT as an opportunity for a lot of the hobbyist VJs to get together, talk shop, screw around, have fun, and then at the end of the day, while we've got 50 VJs sitting around, have a fun party with a ton of video screens and see what everybody's up to.

I thank god every saturday that I don't do this for a living. To turn something so great as an artistic outlet and hobby into your day to day breadwinner is to end up like that crazy old lampy we've all met, the guy who can't really hold a real conversation, or will talk your ear off for 4 hours, has a huge gut and scares all the little raver bunnies away. Fuck that. Have fun *****.

[InsideUsAll]

I really didn't want to post on this thread, cos I felt it had gone in a direction which made it not worth replying too. Then I was driving into work this morning and I thought to myself - hmm I know one simple way to sum this whole situation up:

when the night finished and the lights came up everyone cheered for Mr Freq Nasty [quite justifiably so] then spontaneously for the first time I have ever seen everybody in the place looked upward put there hands in the air & roared & cheered for the v.j collective.

Say what you like about AVit, but thats something that doesn't happen every day

:nod: Dave :nod:

[Kriel]

Just a quick thanks to everyone involved in AVIT, and thanks for having me along. Deadlines were tight and budgets were low, but everyone kicked in and made the event something unlike anything I've seen anywhere.

The forums were especially useful, and a diverse range of opinions and experiences were presented. Nice.

Most impressive was the positive and cooperative spirit of the event, the organisers and the participants -- something not to be underestimated.

For anyone who didn't see it, I can personally report to the community that not only were there plenty of VJs and punters alike, but also a few club promoters, journalists and public arts people. I spoke to several of them, and they were duly impressed.

Well done, and congratulations to all!

Kriel

[labmeta]

"spontaneously for the first time I have ever seen everybody in the place looked upward put there hands in the air & roared & cheered for the v.j collective.

Say what you like about AVit, but thats something that doesn't happen every day "

Well pointed out. i gotta say i have never seen a crowd show their appreciation for the vjs on such a mass scale, It made a whole lotta years worth while in some ways. A memory that`ll last.

[syzygy]

Indeed - I love it when a few people notice where we are oparting the visuals from and make their appreciation obvious. Seeing so many people applauding up towards the balconey was great!

Dan.

(SyZyGy Visuals)

[spark]

did you rate avit? just what is avit now? well, talk to us, the leeds organisers, direct this thurs when we'll try to all be at the chat to discuss this and more. see the avit announce at the top of the forum.

[ToddGraft]

Phew, it?s difficult to add or take away anything that?s been said here but as I have been gigging for the last week, all I can do is multiply some comments.
Thanks all.
It was great.
It was crap.
It was not pro.
It was so autonomous maaaan.
Some visuals were great.
Some visuals were crap.
Blah blah blah
Yes AVIT was another step in the continuation of VJ awareness and it will be the positive sides to it that will be remembered; only we as a forum will remember the failings. The countless posts of discussions since April and on other forums have now been given the community acid test. I think all comments have been taken on board, good and bad, and I can but agree.
This was a community production I would like to mention that cost was a major factor, I personally would have expected more financial support from the now 1000+ members, I?ve seen more donations in a blind box in McDonalds. No disrespect to those who did contribute but as most people out there could not even offer the price of a cup of tea then I wonder how many out there actually want to see a community come together. From paddling upstream for years and trying to create more ?$?$ to the VJ fee, I would say that most of our members seem to be wearing that promoter hat.
PS. *********Donate to AVIT********
We are still under budget.
Thanks in advance.

[humdrum]

Wow, and I thought I was joining a happy, doing it for the love of it community; however there seems to be a chasm opening in the dis/utopia of VJ's.

Did I rate AVIT? Yep.

Was it the best Vjing has to offer? No.

Did it look as good as it could of? No.

Did many punters turn up and expereince something new and have a wicked night out to boot? Yep.

I have just spent some time reading this thread and mus confess to been surprised at the level of insults been flung about. How very constructive.

I travelled up to leeds and spent over 24 hours in a Shopping centre (this was indeed a 1st) helping to rig/derig and play etc etc for this event. Got very tired and short tempered, spent money that really can't afford and all the usual gripes that doing it cuz you want to throws at you.

Anyhow's yep I agree with some of you that it didn't look GREAT, but knowing of what the crew was up against (as already pointed out, the usual, no budget, no time etc) I thought it looked OK.

Simply, this discussion could go on add infiniteum as value judgements on what is good and what is not are purley subjective to the individual. However I would also like to point out that what (in my opinion) came out of AVIT was the knowledge that an idea can be born online, a organising community can be formed with many never having met, a good event can be organised in a very short space of time, and knowledge can be learnt from the experience.

Spose what I;m trying to say is well done to everyone involved in organising AVIT, there where mistakes made though sureley there is no such thing a a perfect gig, let alone a 1st event organised by a new crew. And as for the amount of negativity been posted on this thread; how's about tryin to keep it constructive? Cuz theres far to much fucking negativity out there yonder as it is.

[many2]

The most important thing for me was that I was going to meet other VJs from around the world and in that respect AVIT was a huge success. I finally got to put some heads under many names, I had the opportunity to see many different visual styles (some I liked, some I didn't, but that's how it supposed to be isn't it ?).

Some people may dislike the community-DIY aspect of AVIT but for me it was the only way it could be done. If you have ever promoted a party you will know that it's quite hard to get everything right the first time, even more if everyone is a volunteer. But how else could AVIT be prepared if it wasn't by ourselves and with the means we had at hand. We had little but together we made this the first international VJ meeting and I know we will remember this for years as one of the event responsible for the coming to age of VJing in general. AVIT will be the visual equivalent of the WMC in a few years, believe me !

Many-2

[PilotX]

Originally posted by many2
Some people may dislike the community-DIY aspect of AVIT but for me it was the only way it could be done. Many-2

I dunno - for me, the community-DIY was the only way it could be done - can you imagine the cost of hiring all the projectors, slides scaffs and rigs? not to mention the VJS...

Huge respect is due to everyone who was involved in AVIT, especially those who made it happen in the first place.


Tom
SyZyGy Visuals

[obi1riley]

I think you all better call me in the future.
I can lay my hands on multiple projectors, including a couple of masive ELM's (13,000 ansi).
I could introduce a manufacturer to provide equipment and probably get the concert/club press involved to cover it.

Q. did anyone invite the press?

If the answer's no, then I make the following observation:
Are you all playing with yourselves or do you really want to do this to happen in a BIG way?

Everyone is looking for the same thing here - recognition, (you can see that by the egotistical responses that some people have posted) and that will come only with exposure, to gain exposure you need an event, so go on, it's endeavor that's required not an online forum to pull apart someones' best efforts (that MOST people ejoyed by all accounts).

Those that can - DO
Those that can't - PREACH

DJ's (as they are known today) started of in wharhouses, sheds and even caves where I come from. the point is from small and faltering beginnings great things can come, but you have to take the first step.

Don't be quick to criticise until you venture the question - could I have done better with the resources available?

The overinding fealing is that there is passion to drive this cause forward, and that passion will win through in the end. Lessons have been learned and next time WILL be better. . . .
I can make sure of that.

obi1riley@aol.com

:nod:

[spark]

big words... well this gig has caught your attention, eh? glad to have you on board for the future... join the party!

ps. as you may know, you have to pay journos to cover stuff nowadays which is kinda hard for a zero-budget community event, but hey... check dj magazine in december ;)