styles

[unjulation]

i've noticed that there seems to be two ways to vj'ing,

1) useing prety much untamperd clips, loops, etc and mixing the loops and any efects on the hop, with whatever software/hardware set up you have.

2) pre-rendering the clips in an editing program adding efects creating the loop it's self out of several outher clips.

and as far as i can see both will efect you style of play with both haveing pro's and cons to themselves.

with each alowing a an amount of controle and flexability at biferent times in the process

[krezrock]

or no clips at all :)

[MoRpH]

Personally I use the first as I don't want to lock my clips into a particular FX by prerentdering when I have such a great live FX unit as the CVI

[edibleplastyc]

i pre-render clips

i'm able to make 2 sets (128 clips) in 2hrs. im not dealing with the heavy system usage that it takes to run quality video, so its quite easy to render out .swfs quickly.

especially when you have set templates you can manipulate easily.

and then on the night mixing the loops and any effects on the hop. i do it kinda blind, having no preview of what clip i may hit which to me adds a real on the fly kinda a vibe. coz its all about problem solving i reacon, and doing it live rocks. :)

yeah :)

peace

[MoRpH]

its about the quality of your clips, not the quantity my edible friend.

[edibleplastyc]

oh... nothing BUT quality, i wouldnt play them if i wasnt happy with em. im kinda perfectionist when it comes to designing on the fly so im very anal over what i content i introduce into the mix.

has to be cool mann.

[MoRpH]

"having no preview of what clip i may hit" & " im very anal over what i content i introduce into the mix" OXYMORON??? ;)

[edibleplastyc]

r u going childish on me morph.. not understand?? its a design thing mate. all bout intuition..

[MoRpH]

Pffffft get over yourself dipstick, I was just pointing out that your not know what your going to put in the mix when you hit a key and your care of what you put in the mix seem to be counter productive..... surely there must be times when you hear something or feel something in the music and you thing "wow... that clips would go really wikkid now".... how do you access that clip without preview or knowing what key its on??? Seems to me your just trying to say it doesn't mater what you put in live... all your shit is good??? hahaha seriously not every clip in someones DB is good or works @ a certain time in the mix. First your software is the best, now your material is too????

BTW you didn't answer me... where in aust are you based???

[edibleplastyc]

im not based in australia, not for a year anyway. im based in auckland. and work with a collective called kog transmissions... i was at newcastle in nov tho.. kinda took over a flash for visuals lecture... oops. ;)..

i design ma visuals in a way so they do work @ any givin moment..
and

i do know what each set of my clips are, because they are all themed in one way or another, and if i think the something would go wikkid with the beat i'll find it... and pretty quickly. its about understanding your own software and where the content sits and how quickly you can access it..

and shit if i press a wrong key, who cares.. the punters dont realllly give a fuck.

[MoRpH]

Cool well good to know you actually do know what your going to put up next :)

And yeah I know of kog. You were @ EF2k1??? I only managed to get up for a little while this time.

Yeah I am also keen on messing with flash based visuals but prolly as another layer to what i'm doing.

As for pressing the wrong key... yeah I guess your right but its nice to dream that they care :p

[edibleplastyc]

i usually run it with a pre mixed mini dv tape of jim (the eagle) which is my parnter in crime.. or he runs a three vhs decks mix... or we run 2 laptops..

for shows like alpine it is easy for me to do it, coz all my stuff, video mixer (roland v2), laptop and camera fits into 2 smallish briefcases.

the eletro fringe was cool... apart from the location...newcastle is kinda empty and strange.. :)

[eXhale]

I'm definitely on the first category, I try to get as rough material as I can. Occasionaly I enhance the video samples (levelling, etc) but the goal is only to make the sample more clear so that I can mess with it :) With the 4 effects you can use on Resolume + the 3 blend modes + my mixer, I have definitely enough effects not to use the same all the time (indeed I sometimes try to get again a cool effect but never succeed!)

PS: please don't destroy interesting topics with personal attacks and off topic stuff...

[edibleplastyc]

yeah yeah sweetasbro :)

[many2]

I use a mix of both 1 and 2 but another similar solution I'm using more and more is prerendering effect compositions in visualJockey and then load the result as a source. Let's say I build an effect that is too complex to be rendered at a good framerate in vJo R3 I'll just use the "export movie" option and prerender it - using this option vJo will take as much time is needed to render each frame and create an AVI out of it. I then load this AVI in a brand new effect composition and voila : a brand new clip ;)

Many-2

[unjulation]

i personely do both inatley, but i have noticed that there is a diferance when i come to play the diferant styles,
creatinting them on the hop creates the amazing fealing of playing live, it's the performer in me!
but i also know that some of the stuf i create in the premiere set up as a loop maker allowes me the controle of the comunication based upon what i'm trying to create.

[MoRpH]

No probs X (we sorted it anyway :) )

BTW edible I think the unit name you were looking for was the Roland V5 :D

[eXhale]

... and how about capturing what you mix and play it back as a sample? :) i did this yesterday. i basically projected some weird stuff on a sheet, then filmed it with a camera by moving the sheet (nice wave effect). it produced some totally unrecognizable stuff but very interesting visually.

[krezrock]

mmmmm. buffers :)

[vjklik]

I have animation loops and transitions on tapes, I just use the mixer to go between the tapes. Some tapes I make deliberately spacey or slower for when things start to chill and I have the mayhem collections and use those animations to go nuts when the music is peaking. I've found cross-fading between two sources can create some amazing effects, ones you'd never intend to create but end up making anyway. I also had on the wall I projected onto the DJ in the Lower right corner. I used the circle wipe on the Panasonic mixer and the little joystick to open a circle of white like a spotlight on the DJ when he or she raised hands and the crowd went wild. That was an unexpected perk of having the panasonic, because I missed my toaster sooo much and its multi-colored luma key. But that spotlight really added to the show.
Over time I became familiar enough with all my tapes that I could tell by how far each was rewound or not which animations would come up and whether that was appropriate for the music at that moment. I would also make animated logos for the club or extrude elements from the flyer and throw those up... we referred to them as the P.S.A.s It kept the promoters happy and reminded everybody which party they were attending. There was even the secret tape, which if a promoter dissed us or tried to squirm away from paying us we would throw up all this gruesome slaughterhousehouse footage and send people into a bad spiral. The money usually showed up after that or we knew we didn't want to work for those people again....
-klik-

[infopocalypse]

I've got my logo software, which never renders.. I just switch the name in a text file and then it all goes out. I also use my sampler soft. I normally do as few F/X as possible in a clip, but will use F/X in production if the F/X itself is exotic enough (i.e. FluidColorMap)

James

[infopocalypse]

I also use my DV camera and loop on the fly, sampling the artist and then using the footage of the artist as a base clip for mixing.

James

[PiedPiper]

i think maybe the use of content generating type software is a completely different category aswell.

we dont all use short looping clips all the time...
some people use winamp etc... (no comment needed morph)
not to mention the variety of other software.

although i will admit i am seeing a movement towards loop based video for vj'ing......
i still think that real-time and sound responsiveness are important issues to be addressed in the future, and these things are important for software AND for the user of the software......

peace out kids:)

[MoRpH]

Originally posted by PiedPiper
some people use winamp etc... (no comment needed morph) none made..... sheesh


although i will admit i am seeing a movement towards loop based video for vj'ing......
i still think that real-time and sound responsiveness are important issues to be addressed in the future

yes an interesting point, I feel that the move towards loop based software has been because more ppl are injecting the sounds responsiveness into their mix with the use of FX and good mixing technique instead of relying on generative software for it, there for allowing the software to concentrate on functions more directly affecting the use and modification of samples rather than generation.

[murph]

Originally posted by MoRpH
I feel that the move towards loop based software has been because more ppl are injecting the sounds responsiveness into their mix with the use of FX and good mixing technique instead of relying on generative software for it, there for allowing the software to concentrate on functions more directly affecting the use and modification of samples rather than generation.

I like the loop-based software for a certain effect, but I still like sound-responsive stuff as well. There's definitely a different feel to each, and it depends heavily on your visual style. loop-based is awesome if your style is very literal, very concrete imagery. We're very into depth, contrast, and complexity, in an abstract form. So while loop-based stuff is cool, unless we have an MX50 for the night, it can't really stand on its own, needs something more to give that depth. My dream setup, at the moment, would be one laptop running resolume, one running visualjockey, one running an fx program we use, an MX50, and a dvd player. (playing some DVDs we've made of slower generated stuff)

The resolume clips would be keyed over the vjo machine, or the vjo over the dvd, with both the mixer and fx box running fx on the output... Like I said, I like complexity and depth. =] (and this setup allows for some awesome beat-driven stuff)

[MoRpH]

Yeah personally I like to add my FX with my CVI (and the occational input FX on the MX1), which can be beat driven (only hardware FX box with audio in for triggering I think :) ) but I prefer it manual cause I like to vary what it does quite a lot.

As for depth and complexity....hmmm I actually have to admit even though i'm not into narrative I like a fair bit of simplicity to the mix, too many layers spoil the broth in my opinion. Personally I think normally anything for that 3 is over kill and it just detracts from the impact of your mix. I'm not really into slow evolving things, I work more like a scratch DJ with a short fast paced cutup style, so mainly working from my laptop triggering and then visually manipulating (eq. of sctaching and FX) the output with my CVI :)

[infopocalypse]

What I find interesting is the style of visuals and it's noticeable correspondence to who books who, as well as who appreciates who. Personally I have mutliple styles, mainly because I keep basic beats in mind when producing material and often produce said material to some form of music. I have loops specifically made for breaks and hip hop and DNB, and others specfically made for four on the floor. DJs with styles similar to VJs in conceptual levels tend to prefer and appreciate similar artistans.

i.e. Faust and Shortee, a pair of scatchists, loved the ways I quickly used the MX-Pro (which is a good deal faster than the MX-1) to switch between inputs, where as DJ Krush, who does experimental hip hop, appreciated a very low-key and almost slow by comparison show. Trancier DJs have tended to prefer fluidity in imagery, Housier DJs similarities in themes and beat perception. Happy Hardcore DJs simply don't have a clue :D . I think being a VJ, especially a VJ in an area where there is not a lot of competition, requires you to stylistically experiment and become capable of all styles in order to satsify all styles of DJs and Promoters. After all... the DJ and the Promoter end up getting you more gigs and paying you more paychecks than the raver who thinks :alien: Man 'dat zome ill 'lil shiznit :alien:

James

[eXhale]

Originally posted by MoRpH
I actually have to admit even though i'm not into narrative I like a fair bit of simplicity to the mix, too many layers spoil the broth in my opinion.
this is true for clubs, people don't watch the visuals enough to be able to follow complex narratives, etc, but for other kind of environments it's possible.

[MoRpH]

Originally posted by eXhale

this is true for clubs, people don't watch the visuals enough to be able to follow complex narratives, etc, but for other kind of environments it's possible.

Agreed X..... I only really do video in clubs and parties so thats all I know and what I target my mix @ :) but I can see its relevence in other areas :)