is anybody here still oldscool?

[Primebase3]

just wondering while I was cruising throug the threads: Does anybody here still use vhs/svhs/dvd etc decks?? or is everybody on the software vibe? this also goes for the (in holland) standard setup of a mx50(or any other hardware mixer) and 4 decks/3decks and a laptop? are they still out there?

[NickT]

vhs+old toshiba laptop and mixer for me.

[rhythmicimaging]

and i was thinking this thread would be about Old skool as in Ratpack, SL2, i was wrong - Good stuff though Old Skool.

[fluchtpunkt]

i often use 3 vhs decks for live remixing.

[Primebase3]

yeah, I'm saying this because apart from or tapes ,the laptop with a windows media player, and some simple homemade software (title generator,video trigger system,and a beatloop/bpm thingy(all not used much)) and windows media player : we don't use much. personally I'm more for content then adding random stuff to my own vids. it's ..(don't get pissed just my opinion) : to easy? just a prerender head talking :)

[wellREDman]

old school and proud
2x svhs decks with an edit control jog shuttle= no pixels
(mind you we do also have a pc doing full res clip playback and visualisations in the mix too)

[LEVLHED]

YES, I do this too actually....haven't brought a computer to a gig in ages (only because I don't own a lappy and sick of lugging a CRT)
depending on my mood, my setup will be either the Rebelle and two VCD walkmans, or an MX1, a coupla VHS decks and a DVD/VCD player....

[ristuuk]

optikinetics, 35mm slides and 16mm projectors along with the rest of the video/lappy stuff.

[Primebase3]

Originally posted by LEVLHED

..... my setup will be either the Rebelle and two VCD walkmans....


vcd walkmans?!?!? do those work well ?? what kind of output and brand?? not really oldscool :p (just kidding)

[LEVLHED]

the VCD walkmans are Napa, and yes they work well for me. Video output is 1/8", but a cord is supplied to bring that to RCA.

(hint) goto www.pricewatch.com and search for "napa"
also, peep the VCD walkmans that are sold thru www.audiovisualizers.com

Yes, its technically not old school in format, but it is old school in technique.

[KillingFrenzy]

Small gigs (clubs mid-week, coffee houses)

DV Camera
-DV tapes of edited down material
Laptop w/Midi Controller
Simple Switcher


Regular gigs:
DV Camera
-DV tapes of edited down material
SVHS Deck for playback
-VHS tapes
VHS Deck to record set.
Laptop w/Midi Controller
Mixer
Switcher to switch sources into laptop


Then, if I combine with my friends to do a larger gig, it tends to be sort of a mish-mosh of the bottom setup and some rented gear.

I'm getting a second DV deck, because I love the portability and quality of DV. I'll probably just add that into both setups. I wish I could find a really small video mixer that just did dissolves... I'd probably use that instead of the switcher in both cases.

I have an MXPRO mixer, so some day I'll probably shell for the upgrade to the MXPRODV. Then, I could use my two DV cameras via DV out. I'm sort of curious how the Firestore system works, but I'd have to see one in person to make a decision. I'd love it if I could just buy a big fat harddrive and fill it with clips attached to that and have looping DV clips.

The way I use the Laptop is either to run effects on live input, or to create more of a pattern/beat based backdrop. I rarely do a sequential, progressive, clip-based show.

I tried to go with a "look" at one point, which was old black and white - noir films, mixed with my own weird fire footage and other things to give it some color. Unfortunately, it just didn't go with the music they play at most events. So, I put that on the shelf and went more into dance material for housey-shows and into homemade robots and sci-fi for IDM. I also sometimes do "MOD" shows for more of a rock crowd. I definately go for an "old school" look there, with as much of an oil lamp and go-go dancer feel as I can get.

So, overall, I'd say my stuff looks more old-school at the bigger shows, where I can use the mixer, vhs tapes and incorporate feedback.

[brain]

i use:

2 shvs for playback
(1 svhs for recording)
mx-12
mx-1
preview monitors
misc. old hardware just to make things more confusing and fun to me :) (spot my hardware reviews at vjc)

and most important some towel to wipe off the sweat after carrying all the stuff in :) (but i like to play with a friend, anyway ...so there's another one to pack)

if there were any cheap, easy and decent way to get the premixes on DVD in svhs quality, i'd prefer 2 players with displays to the vcrs because of the weight and size, and because of fast scene access. but until now the whole production line you need to do it is too expensive to me and simply makes more trouble than to push REC.

in live playing i'd never change the mixing and effects hardware for a laptop, simply cause i love that stuff...

[Detritus]

We use one vhs deck with computer and the camera (DV) the problem is that the most of movie cames from internet, so it's easier to keep them on computer, but we also use a Napa VCD walkman :-)...
We'll like to find and work with a 16 mm projector, but the movies are difficult to find and expensive.

So it's "half old school for us" !

[Brainfade]

I'm just lurking mainly at th mo but I used to VJ waaay bak in 95 - 96 in Auckland, I used 2 x Panasonic SVHS decks, an SVHS cam & an Amiga 3000 (for making Dpaint type anims & fractals - this was 1995!), all goin thru an MX1, I got th MX1 wen it was new, I used to spend DAYS editing video images, mainly offa tv, using an old Panasonic editing machine, like 50 cuts, then wait for th machines to do their thing , also, back then, any money I made would just cover th hire of the Projector so I was doin it 4 Love & cos no one else seemed to be doing it down here back then & I wanted Visuals, ANYWAY, things change, I sold all th gear, due to lack of dosh mainly, & bought a PC fer Video editing & learning 3d Animation & forgot about the VJ thing but for th last cuppla months Ive been checking out all this new (to me) VJ software, its great, Im gonna get bak in2 it but this time with a PC, & a DVD walkman, if I can get th dosh mebe another MX1 or sim Video mixer PLUS th years of stuff Ive been creating in on my Puters, cant wait!

[burstingfist]

So far no one has has mentioned a truely "old school" setup. When I think of old school, I think of dudes that use overhead projectors and move layers of transparencies by hand to generate real time visuals. I have seen some really eloborate old school setups that make you feel like you are in the 20's. I mean VHS/ DV decks aint really old school...

[LEVLHED]

If you want to talk old school...imagine cavemen making hand puppets by firelight on a canyon wall....lol

I would love to see the overhead-transparencies style...sounds like too much work for me to try..

[karmavideo]

for me....

3 vhs decks (2 for content, 1 for record)
1 dvd player
1 laserdisc player
1 P.O.S hi8 camcorder
1 Roland Videocanvas V5 mixer
1 Powerbook G3
1 Powermac 6500

and if the promoter has a very small budget or for a club gig (generally for as much free booze as I can drink)....

5 25" tvs from my house and as many as I can borrow from my friends. I generally stack them kinda odd, similar to the stacked tvs in Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas

I'm bored and need a job!

John - Karma Video

http://www.karmavideo.organiccrap.com

[burstingfist]

Originally posted by karmavideo
for me....

3 vhs decks (2 for content, 1 for record)
1 dvd player
1 laserdisc player
1 P.O.S hi8 camcorder
1 Roland Videocanvas V5 mixer
1 Powerbook G3
1 Powermac 6500

and if the promoter has a very small budget or for a club gig (generally for as much free booze as I can drink)....

5 25" tvs from my house and as many as I can borrow from my friends. I generally stack them kinda odd, similar to the stacked tvs in Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas

I'm bored and need a job!

John - Karma Video

http://www.karmavideo.organiccrap.com

This is not old school, and almost appears very off topic...

[holly]

I'm ashamed to say, I'm old enough to remember some DeadHead-Daddio doing that colored-liquid-and-oils-on-an-overhead-projector trick and I thought it was the most fabulous thing I had EVER seen at the done-it-all-age of 17! He was at The World in NYC and get this: the image filled an entire cinema-sized wall, it was created in realtime with like no lag at all, and the resolution must have been 40 quadrillion pixels per square inch!:love: He had color wheels that spun in front of the beam so the colors were all blinkadelic, too. I bet he got close to 70 or 80 frames a second which, geez, makes you PAL users slower than Grandma!

But I don't think he'll be posting often to this forum. He probably doesn't need to ask if Arkaos will run on his overhead projector.... Which at that point makes me think Levlhed's cavemen won't be logging in much either....

Who exactly IS "old skool" enough for you? This is a veejay forum afterall, and veejay has come to mean something pretty specific. We're not confusing a VJ with a lighting designer or a pyrotechnics man, any more than we would confuse a DJ with a musician or an audio technician. We know a VJ uses VIDEO, whether real-time generated or prerecorded. I think you are fixating on the idea of projected visuals, but it's not the projector that makes you a VJ.... Transparencies on an overhead sounds like fun (especially if it's those moire patterns), but doesn't sound like VJing to me -- while a laserdisk and a 6500 powerbook are about as old as video gets!:p

Don't mean to step on you BF, but "oldscool" isn't exactly specific. People are free to interpret it with their own definition so how could anything be off-topic?

In vaudville houses before movies came along, there was a guy who would operate a Magic Lantern which was sorta like a slide projector but with a gas flame and big glass plates. Popular songs would be played by the pianist while the guy at the magic lantern would show slides of the lyrics and move a glass bead on a wire to mark the point in the song as everyone sang along. A grand time was had by all! It was interactive, too!

Holly

[burstingfist]

So old school is defined by the processor you use? or the media format? or the resolution? What is new school? I prefer to think of the V in VJ being "visual" rather than "video". And the J could be "Jockey" or "Jammer". Personally I think the name "VJ" is just trying to ride on the coat tails of DJ popularity. I would rather be called a "visualist" or "the visual guy" or "light manipulator". Still images are good, but their not video.

jock?ey Pronunciation Key (jk)
n. pl. jock?eys
1. Sports. One who rides horses in races, especially as a
profession.
2. Slang. One who operates a specified vehicle, machine, or
device: a bus jockey; a computer jockey.

So does that mean that I am also a CJ (computer jockey) because I am a software engineer? I don't think any business would take me seriously if I put that on my resume...

[MoRpH]

Originally posted by burstingfist
Personally I think the name "VJ" is just trying to ride on the coat tails of DJ popularity.

Get over it, nothing wrong with using an existing familiarity... especially if what you do CAN be comparative.

I would rather be called a "visualist" or "the visual guy" or "light manipulator". Still images are good, but their not video.

Umm if they are coming out of a PC and being converted to PAL/NTSC 25 FPS then they most certainly ARE VIDEO, just not MOVING..... not all video moves :) or changes for that matter :p

So does that mean that I am also a CJ (computer jockey) because I am a software engineer? I don't think any business would take me seriously if I put that on my resume... Now thats just LAME..... deal mate. Each to their own, an I can think of a million reasons, the VIEWCISIAN term is lame as hell

[burstingfist]

Originally posted by *****


Seems ya do a lot of thinkin.

quick question for ya. If you arnt a VJ and don't use the name VJ, How and why did you ever end up finding and joining this forum?
G

Actually it was via audiovisualizers.com, nothing to do with the term "VJ".

I am a man.

A man that enjoys real time visuals.

Fuck the rest.

[brain]

well i definitely knew i was oldschool when on my last gig some people were puzzeled by my equipment (mx-12, mx-1, vcc-1 etc.) and figured out that "it must be some kind of analogue Avid" :D

[NickT]

To many of the people who come to gigs/clubs, our equipment, software, and how we work is like rocket science. It's what comes out of the projector that's 'new' or 'old' school.
Get over the equipment snobbery!:D

[Primebase3]

thank you nick

[Primebase3]

ps: I'm just saying when the threahd started : do you do it the oldfashioned way (mix tapes) or al that laptop bizness which I saw at avit.. not which one is better (it's the screen eventually and what it shows )

[brain]

well i surely didn't want to snob around cause of using old hardware and vcrs! i only recognized that there are people around who now see things from a different side - a while ago an avid system seemed like an unaffordable, clever "whole studio in a box", for some people who grew up with lappies and dvcams now the old stuff seems like an analogue simulation of software...

i think there is a relation between what hardware you use and how it shows in the visuals. i have the impression that the use of laptops + software leads to the massive use of short, looped clips and applying variations on them (due to disk space and processor time, so that may change as things evolve). when i use a vcr for playback, i sometimes play around with long sequences cut and taken from obscure movies (as long as i like, maybe up to 20 minutes or more). i guess people wouldn't pack such long movies (and lots of them) on their laptop. using svhs, you simply don't worry about disk space. i think in my case this leads to a more "narrative", movie-like stlye (though i intercut the longer sequences with fast cuts and loops from a second source / sampler). using no software, i generate abstract patterns by using feedbacks, distorted signals, sync errors etc. this looks different from using software.

don't get it wrong: i don't say that what i do is better than doing it some other way, it's just another way.

every technical environment creates specific esthetics. thats why it's so interesting if people are on different tracks and do research of their own how to evolve, may it be "old" or "new"school or a combination of all...

[Denimage]

Salut,
i work with a Titanium, and 6 sixteen millimeters projectors. I built an artisanal laboratory, so i can "hand-process" my black and white movies. i love to mix 16mm and vid?o . Am i "oldschool"? ;)

[Primebase3]

well.. yeah you use and "old" technique ergo your oldschool

[eXhale]

good points brain, it's true using long videos is difficult with a laptop only and it affects the possibility to do more narrative stuff. a small VCD/DVD player is a good alternative to the traditional VCR though, since you can easily go wherever you want on the video.

[burstingfist]

Originally posted by Denimage
Salut,
i work with a Titanium, and 6 sixteen millimeters projectors. I built an artisanal laboratory, so i can "hand-process" my black and white movies. i love to mix 16mm and vid?o . Am i "oldschool"? ;)

Yeah, that sounds pretty old school to me...

[filf]

After many years ago workin once with the light surgeons I saw the light - I have followed their path and now have a pretty old school setup, which tries to mix the new with the old.

The quality of analogue I believe still kicks the ass of digital which is why I have been learning photo/cinemato-graphy and still believe the quality/resolution of film and slide over video is still really obvious. [in my experience with my setup]. However for flexibility video and computers are way easier.


I have managed to get a computer called an Eagle which can sequence up to 30 kodak carousels and animate them, I have also got a good set of Elf 16mm projectors and Eumig super 8 projectors. It is a hell of a job getting around and setting them up but at the end of the day it gives some excellent results. Rather than one screen you can have multiple which creates a real atmosphere. But it is my way of doing things, we are all trying to create an atmosphere for people in a specific environment.

The way I see it use the projection media that best suits the material. Photography and film for photo realism - digital for graphics/3d - mix it up. Keep it old school [if thats what turns you on], but embrace emerging technologies. At the end of the day its your imagery that matters - just do YOUR thing for the right reasons.

[stimuleye]

Originally posted by filf
I have managed to get a computer called an Eagle
I remember it well. Good stuff. Hang on to it. There was also a similar machine called a Coyote.

[EXP3]

I'm one of the last vjs in montreal truly practicing video skracthing....Most of the times i use only analog equipement......


For example one of the last shows i did......( i tried to promote the fact that was doing an old skool set....) I used two MX-50 added 8 vhs linked everything together and did visuals on 5 screens.........everyboduy went wild to see my collection of vhs tapes.....for a normal 6 hour set i use around 200 vhs tapes......all full of my own creations.....



Please note that old skool is a preference....i do own a G4 computer and dv cameras, and use them often......


N.b. my old skool style got me quite a reputation in montreal......I'm knowed to be the fatest vj on the mx-50 in montreal.....i gave a class on it a few weeks ago......It's all about the rythm and not the machines....

[BrainStove]

Originally posted by EXP3
I'm knowed to be the fatest vj on the mx-50 in montreal

You mean someone like this???

http://www.cellar.org/2002/sumo.jpg


Just kidding pal... :D
Welcome on board mate and I hope you find a comfortable spot on these tiny forums... Hehehe, just kidding again :)

[MoRpH]

Nah prolly more like this
http://home.pacific.net.au/~morph/stuff/fatestonmx50.jpg

[Primebase3]

lol :D now that's phat ;)

[EXP3]

Here is an example....fast mix, .....no source....pure quick transitions from black to white....

[LEVLHED]

nice.

[MoRpH]

Hahahaha, mate we all knew what you meant, its just pretty standard around here to take the piss out of ppl that are full of themselves...... chillout, in the words of homer simpson, "No mater how good you think you are there is always someone better, moral of the story don't try" get over yourself mate.

[EXP3]

Hey morph....i new it was just a joke.......


I'm not full of myself....i'm just quick....that's actually one of my strongest points.....I'm actually too old skool to be better than the new high teck Vjs....


The clip was only to show a technique i use.......( and old skool teknik......and that was the point of this thread )


i can take a joke like any one else....check pic.....


( she's my girl )

[krezrock]

heheh

[MoRpH]

Hehehe now THAT is FAT :p

[bluntfaktory]

about 7 years ago some one referred to me as a "RAVE-A-SOROUS" and at that point i'd only been doing it about 3 years . i hate to think what that makes me now ! although i pretty much stick to a modern format , in that i always try to update with new mixers , software , computers and what ever , i still have 10 or so stripped down 16mm , the same in ectographic slide projectors and my trusty Russian kpachoropack-3 16mm camera . i still shoot film and run the old gear once in a blue moon but that's kind of more to do with being an overall visualist and not just plug-in-and-away-we-go-VJing (of which my VJing is as modern as i can make it )

[bluntfaktory]

powwww ! older the old school kommy , your straight to core , kickin-it with the west coust flay-va baby ! :jump2:

[bassy]

old school?

wondering what VJ's did before they invented electricity,.....

o yeah the cave man,.... but that wasn't exactly kinda rave

[globalgroove]

I use 4000 video toaster with dual tbc, camera,dvd player ,and a couple vcr's

[JodyBlueskies]

i sure am still on the old school but mixing it with new evolutionary tools... but it is cool to see the faces of the new kids when they go like "you can do that with that ???!!!!" :D

blue skies,
jody

[ristuuk]

Where do you buy seran wrap?
Im getting arthritis in my fingers and my candle keeps blowing out

[krokodril]

AND OFCOURSE THE HIGH END DEALS:

butchering up a tubelight starter to make a light organ......and later on the evening smoke machine

[bassy]

This weekend I used a video editing panel from Sonny:
XV-C700. I'm going to write an article about it.
It's really nice thing, if you have to guys who like to manipulate the images by hardware.
It gives most of the effects wich a hardware mixer can give to but if one person can do that allone and the other concertrate on the mixer and use again there all the effects, you come up with really nice things, and the crowd loved it.
Articles is on his way.

[vjRS]

I think I represent the real old skool, because I dont accept these neu VJ software like Arkaos & stuff.
I make my Videos on old good Premiere (or AVID). There r no VJ Effects, so I gotta make everything manually, but I can make more with it, than with any VJ software.
It takes longer, but my videos r like "Hand made".
:rolleyes:

[MoRpH]

Originally posted by vjRS
but my videos r like "Hand made".
:rolleyes: SAD get over yourself :rolleyes:

[KillingFrenzy]

Originally posted by vjRS
I think I represent the real old skool, because I dont accept these neu VJ software like Arkaos & stuff.
I make my Videos on old good Premiere (or AVID). There r no VJ Effects, so I gotta make everything manually, but I can make more with it, than with any VJ software.
It takes longer, but my videos r like "Hand made".
:rolleyes:

Paint on film like Brakhage, and you can earn the title "Hand Made Films"

[MoRpH]

Hehehe... nice one frenzy.

[Primebase3]

or make cool stuff like : Darren Oronofsky, Brian Belectic , 00-Kaap ,dept, Industrial light and magic, Dascha, Koeth design,DesignersRepublic,Nico Stumpo, and all other graphic motion designers/effect makers/post-producers...oh. yeah. you are :)

vjRS , it's a cool way of working , I'm not in to arkaos and such imo: there cool but not my thing maybe because I'm getting old or not following the latest tech stuff. or maybe because I got the taste of making stuff first then the mixing , dunno

as for the comments: why you f'ing up guys , he's just saying what his style is. don't listen to'm RS do your thing!!




peace (for new cats to!!)

[MoRpH]

Not saying its BAD, good on him for doing something different, just saying that saying one way is "better" (how I read the "hand made" comment) is SAD.

[holly]

I don't necessarily see the "hand made" comment as a dig against VJ softs. It seems more like just a matter of the tools he uses. When I use AfterEffects I have to place every single keyframe and tweek position, scale, rotation (etc) "by hand". In contrast I recently started using Artmatic to do the same thing with video clips (rotate, move, and scale) automatically. It's not like one is better than the other, but when I want a random look to the movement Artmatic is dead easy. I wouldn't even attempt to create a random look with AfterEffects anymore. But if I want something specific it has to be AE all the way; Artmatic doesn't give me acurate control. It's not like one is universally better than the other.... I'm happy to have both.

That's how I interpret the "hand made" comment.

[Primebase3]

hey holly,

did you try the wiggler tool in ae : if you make two keyframes with time between them ae can recreate randomness in the interval you choose. lots of control while your doing it (seems to be the ae mantra, control everything)

as for the handmade comment. I agree with holly : everybody has his own style and with everything comes different gear to get the job done. I didn't see the problem with it hence my reaction to the comments.

I like to leave it at that. ow guys speaking about oldskool/ot madness : there's a cool book out called back in the days , what hiphop looked like in NY in the 80's ,damn so wicked ,almost got to a store to get some fatlaces and oversized glasses , ultradope and great inspiration , like that book fruits (with the japanese kids dressing all spacey like) a must see.

peace,

[holly]

Hey Prime!

I tried Wiggler but nothing happened (obviously I was doing it wrong), but I used Draw Motion Path on a project with a graphics tablet (two words: WOW!). AE is just too friggin cool! Morph, if you had AE that big photo to movie project you were working on would have been simple.

Nothing replaces the big apps, but sometimes smaller programs anticipate what would look good without much brains. Set up time in AE can be longer than the renders....

[MoRpH]

Yeah I know it prolly would, gonna give it a bash in flash and see how that goes. I dunno something about AE just bugs me, still love PS and premiere though :)