Where do I start?

[Stickman]

Hi, New member here, and I suppose you've all heard this before, but where exactly do I start with VJ'ing?

Basically, because of things I already do with traditional club lighting systems, I've got a gig booked on oct25th (not getting paid thou I don't really care about that at the moment), and I've got potentially more gig's in the pipeline, but, I've got no VJ kit.

This is something I've been thinkiong about for ages but never got round to learning about, now I've an incentive (ie not letting some mates down on the 25th).

I'm presuming that there is the 1st choice thing or hardware or software mixing? Given my experience to date of Dj'ing etc, nothing replaces the feel of a pukka hardware mixing deck?

What have I got already, 3 desktops PC's, 1 low powered laptop, coupla VCR's, canon Hi8 camera, digi camera (sony cybershot) and lot's of ideas re images.

I live in London UK, so if anybody can suggest a shop I can visit to try before buying cool, but, in reality my budget will probably limit me to 2nd hand equipment.

I can code (written lot's of applications in my time), and I've got awards forsome of my still image photos, so not afraid of content creation, but my empahsis is on aiding the live performance of music (Dj sets and bands).

Suggestions (please please please....).

Hope I can make it to AVIT in Leeds, although I have to be in London by 11pm on sat12th for a gig :(

Thanks in advance, and I look forward to chatting with all over the coming months!!!!!!!!!

Jamie.

[MoRpH]

Sounds like you already have some quality useable kit there, I would personally recommend getting yourself some VJ software to run on one or 2 of the PCs (read the reviews @ VJC), video output hardware for the PCs (scan convertor, TV out card, etc...) and a hardware mixer (also check the reviews @ VJC) and you should be right to go :)

[unjulation]

all good points morph, but if you are realy straped for cash, you could drop the mixer and scan converter and go with one of the meny programs that uterlise dual monitor set ups, a seconed pci graphic card can be got for as little as ?15 these days and run the main output throgh your tv out or vga if your projector has it and it seems to be prety standerd these days (i'm no techy), but for peace of mind i would go with a mixer just in case your computer throws a woberler!
again check out the vj central reveiws, have a play with some software and see what you think about each
the thing is to find a set up that you as an indervidual feel happy with, everyone has there own opinion about what is best, a bit like elepants and blind men

[MoRpH]

Personally I ain't ever seen anyone professionally running a projector from VGA cable direct from PC..... for many reasons, second yeah software just ain't crash proof enough, gotta have a mixer (although I have run TZT 5 times now ALLNIGHT without a crash) so its getting close, still better off having a mixer for bringing in those live cams, etc...

[many2]

I still feel a mixer is an essential tool for any VJ. Yes you can try to do without and there is nothing wrong with that but believe me that once you'll use one you will understand. A mixer is the most effective, reliable and direct interface a VJ can have with its visuals. But you don't have to buy one : I still rent my mixers even after performing for years now. As for the projectors, I feel its better to rent what I exactly need for a given show than to buy a fixed setup that wouldn't be able to accomodate all venues I would be invited to.

Many-2

[PilotX]

Me and syszygy use a midi keyboard to trigger clips, as well as two hardware mixers.

I really enjoy using the keyboard because of the tactile side of it (as I used to play in bands it takes me back :) )

You could take a look at ebay.co.uk (consumer electronics, professional/ studio section) for a hardware mixer - there seem to be two or three available at any given time.

Hope this helps - there seem to be any number of methods to use to create the visuals, but this had not yet been mentioned.

[eXhale]

Originally posted by MoRpH
Personally I ain't ever seen anyone professionally running a projector from VGA cable direct from PC..... for many reasons, second yeah software just ain't crash proof enough, gotta have a mixer (although I have run TZT 5 times now ALLNIGHT without a crash) so its getting close, still better off having a mixer for bringing in those live cams, etc... I have often been connecting my laptop directly to my projector, although it was only on moments when a crash wasn't too important (on friends parties or when repeating with my band).

[MoRpH]

Hence why I said professionally :)

[komart663]

for video output i recommend matrox g450 ,there's a scan convertor in it if you don't need a lot of 3D power ( and they have a high video bandpass ,or a Parhelia with 3 outputs ( if you have the cash ) or new MMS series ,sorry to speak as a Matrox advertising but in the graphic cards jungle ,matrox are cheap ( less than 120 euro for a G450) and quite useful for vjing as you don't need dualhead soft ,you can use any sw and have twinview ,nice no ?of cousre ,a midi keyboard is nice but midcontroller too such as Doepfer or Bitstream ,for the rest ,the best is check the reviews

[eXhale]

Originally posted by MoRpH
Hence why I said professionally :) OK, OK, I didn't read your message correctly :evil:

[unjulation]

yhe i serpose its my d.i.y. atitude geting the better of me, but nasescity is the mother of invention

[Stickman]

Thanks for the input everybody.

I've downloaded the demo version of VJockey R3 and will be using it shortly, it sounds like a good tool for setting up some pre-built routines.

Sounds like a hardware based mixer might be a good investment anyway, then I can always mix in several PC image sources (Mpeg/avi and effects such as spinning logos etc -I've got some nice content captured with my sony cybershot). Question of which mixer I think will come down to whats available in my price range and time limits.

Being essentially a PC person, I do think theres some merit for overlaying custom visualisations with my own content, which basically means (to me, excuse my lack of terminology) mixing in several PC based sources using a h/w mixer.

On-top of that I want to aim live cameras at existing lighting effects as well, but the main thing I really want is to be able to manually control beat sync, like I do already do with ceiling lights, building an atomosphere.

My main desktop PC has TVout (GEforce2) and I also have a videolodic co-processor card with s-video, which shouldn't play mpegs but does, so there's 2 s-video ouputs, and extra tv-out cards are cheap 'ish.

projector - umh, sounds like a heavy investment if it's got to take several feeds, maybe thats where the hardware mixer comes into play? using it as a feed controller for the projector as much as anything?

off to read more of the site, once again, thanks for the input.

Jamie

[PilotX]

One more thing (sorry)
If you're buying a h/w mixer, make sure that it syncs the video for you.
This is to do with when the screen refreshes - if you do not have autosync the refresh line will be out of place (apparently its really nasty). Read the reviews on VJC to check you are going for one which does (all of the one reviewed there, I would think, will do this for you)

[MoRpH]

for a better explanation of sync look at this article on VJC http://www.vjcentral.com/article/show/584

[fluchtpunkt]

Originally posted by Stickman

projector - umh, sounds like a heavy investment if it's got to take several feeds, maybe thats where the hardware mixer comes into play? using it as a feed controller for the projector as much as anything?


yes. i would argue that (today) the mixer is the single most important piece of hardware in a vj-setup. if only to switch between sources (& avoid bluescreens). i have a strong emphasis on working with computers to produce/generate visuals myself (...i'm even studying computer science to get an extra edge :) ). but without a mixer i'd need this awesome single programm that could run an entire night all on its own (...), that just doesn't exist yet! and '(...)' is a LOT of things.

[MoRpH]

Sticks projector has nothing to do with multiple inputs, if you switching between sources on the projector your going about it ass backwards.

Don't buy, rent them or insist the promoter supply them, only buy if it is to your advantage to do so (EG buying will cost as much as renting for a set period of installation)

[wellREDman]

sticks,
if yr looking to buy a mixer i can give you a good deal on a used mx50 in good nick, pm me if yr interested

[Stickman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MoRpH
Sticks projector has nothing to do with multiple inputs, if you switching between sources on the projector your going about it ass backwards.
QUOTE]

Exactly, that's what I mean about needing a mixer (ie, if I didn't have one I'd HAVE to switch at the projector as I've got several input sources (Pc's and cameras and VCR's).

Anyway, after some help from wellRedman I've decided that my needs (and budget limits) are best served by a useed Videonics MX1, anybody know of one for sale in the South of the UK?

Plenty on EBAY but most won't ship to UK and I need to get this fairly fast, as I found out on Saturday that several club / party promoters are guest listed at my first gig... I need to start practicing ASAP :)

Also, anybody any advice buying a used projector to connect to my MX1 (when I get it). How much to pay is my 1st question? (I want one at home to practice with in full set-up mode, so think renting might be a bad idea. Three of the Dj's who are playing at my first gig are coming round to practice thier sets with me, so need projector fast too! argh :) :) :) ).

x.JamieB.x
"life is not a rehearsal"

[Stickman]

Originally posted by *****


hu?

do whaa?

Rewind, for a guy in lighting your missing the obvious.

G

To cut a long story short I agree with you ...!!!... that's what I was trying to say...

Anyway, safe to say I want / need a mixer on my rig which is going to be three PC's, two cameras (all my content is stored on the PC's (from my own animations through to some BPM synced visualtion sequences that I've written for specific track styles), plus live footage (of decks/part goers etc.) and some other wierd movies etc that I've got...

:) :p :) & I hate going up ladders enough during a rig let alone when people are dancing and *drinking all around me...:) :p :)

x.JamieB.x

[LEVLHED]

Its worth noting that an MX1 has only 4 inputs...but you could put a hard switcher in front of one of the inputs to get more channels in if you needed more than 4 sources available.
Also, having a preview moniter on the MX1 makes mixing much easier...you can see whats coming in on what channel and for setting up the (luscious and fun) chroma key functions.

[Stickman]

Originally posted by LEVLHED
Its worth noting that an MX1 has only 4 inputs...but you could put a hard switcher in front of one of the inputs to get more channels in if you needed more than 4 sources available.
Also, having a preview moniter on the MX1 makes mixing much easier...you can see whats coming in on what channel and for setting up the (luscious and fun) chroma key functions.

Yeap thats the reasons I've decided to go for the MX1 (and I'll cope with the number of input channels, think four should enough to keep my occupied during a set... :)

Still got to get my hands on one though.. frustrating that all the used MX1's (that I can find) are in the states with sellers who won't ship outside the US.... :(

See you at AVIT.

[murph]

you don't want an MX-1 from the states anyhow, as it'll be NTSC, whereas you're on PAL. I don't know why mixers aren't NTSC and PAL, seems like they should be, but they aren't.

[fluchtpunkt]

Originally posted by LEVLHED
Its worth noting that an MX1 has only 4 inputs...

...you can use the mx1 with more than just 4 inputs! the mx1 has got 4 composite & 3 s-vid input ports that are mapped to 4 input channels. the mapping can be changed easily during a show ('setup' button takes you to a menu), which makes it possible to use all 7 inputs.

[LEVLHED]

oh yeah! forgot about that...
that would make a preview moniter ESSENTIAL!

[fluchtpunkt]

Originally posted by LEVLHED

that would make a preview moniter ESSENTIAL!

yes. once you memorized the most important effects you can use the mx1 without a preview, but you can't really use all of its fx any more (like chroma key :( ) which makes it a LOT less fun.

[wellREDman]

before you go hell for leather diving into buying a mixer in time for yourf irst gig, look into hiring one for this show then making your decision and purchase where you dont have rush as a factor.
spending 50 now could save hundreds
and once youve gigged with one you can make a more informed decision yourself what it is you want.
where in uk r u based?

[Stickman]

Originally posted by wellREDman
before you go hell for leather diving into buying a mixer in time for yourf irst gig, look into hiring one for this show then making your decision and purchase where you dont have rush as a factor.
spending 50 now could save hundreds
and once youve gigged with one you can make a more informed decision yourself what it is you want.
where in uk r u based?

Red - thanks for the tip, and in asnwer to your question I'm in London.

I had thought about renting a mixer, but I need to have the mixer to practice on (ie get my act together :-) for three weeks before the gig, so, if I rent I'll spend nearly as much as buying a used one (I reckon?).

I've found a used MX1 for ?500 (pounds). Seems slightly expensive but a rare commodity in the UK, so think I'll buy it... am I mad?

awaiting your replies ....

thxs.

[LEVLHED]

assuming pounds are still around the same value as USD, then 500 is a fair price for a used MX1 in good condition.
If you go on ebay, do a search for MX1's, then look at "completed items" you'll see that they typically sell for anywhere between $450 and $750...
I got mine for $450 USD

[eXhale]

Pounds are worth more than US dollars... ?500 seems quite expensive to me, I think I got mine for $350 at eBay which would be about half the price.

[Stickman]

Originally posted by eXhale
Pounds are worth more than US dollars... ?500 seems quite expensive to me, I think I got mine for $350 at eBay which would be about half the price.

Yeah I agree with you, hence the question really.

Trouble is, after extensive searching this is the only one I found in the UK, and of course the ones in the US arn't any good to me 'cos there NTSC (I'm UK so need PAL really).

The prices for other MX1's I've found in the UK (all sold) range from ?350 to ?450, so I suppose it's no massively over priced, thing is i do really need it ASAP otherwise I'm going to run out of time.

How much to budget for projector (again, renting doesn't make sense as I need it for a few weeks to practice and I can't get anybody else to provide one as I'm just starting out).

[LEVLHED]

currently 1 EUR = 0.977845 USD..eX $350 was a very good deal I think.
oops, forgot we were talking pounds
1.00 GBP = 1.55905 USD so maybe 500 pounds is pricey, but like you said YOU NEED IT...I think the video mixer is the single most important piece of VJ equipment (as others have also said)

now, with a projecter there's no reason for you to practice with one. You can just as easily run your output to the TV and see what you're doing. Although I can appreciate the desire to see what it looks like and have a beamer in your house :)
Seriously though, I would rent a beamer once or twice first. Unless the money is just burning a hole in your pocket....
I strongly recommend you look at nothing below 1,000 lumens for pro VJ work.
My InFocus LP340 (1,300 lumen) has served me well and has proven bright enough for the gigs I do. I got mine a year and a half ago for around $2500, but now it seems they can be had for $1600+/- (sheese! thats disgusting)

[Stickman]

Originally posted by LEVLHED
..You can just as easily run your output to the TV
. nothing below 1,000 lumens for pro VJ work.
I got mine a year and a half ago for around $2500, but now it seems they can be had for $1600+/- (sheese! thats disgusting)

Well at those sort of costs I'll have to rent one :-)

Yeap - had thought of using the TV (got a 28inch one) and probably will, just means a bit more messing around as I currently use it as my monitor for my PC.

Anyway, beggars can't be choosers as they say.

Thxs again for the input.

Jamie.

[MoRpH]

I picked mine up for $500 australian which is about $250US and about 175squid.

[Stickman]

Well, the waitings over... aquired a very nice condition WJmx12 (privately owned / used by an elderly amatuer camcoder enthusiast) for just over ?300 with some cables, manual etc.

Had a quick play with it last night, cool. Yeap I could do with more selectable sources, but I'll work around that.

More importantly now I've got it I can work more on my content and practice with the DJ's for my 1st gig on the 26th.

I'll write up my experiences with it and post back in a few weeks for the "beginners" section :)

Thanks for all the input!

[Primebase3]

ow and when you spend all that money on everything : don't forget your content, learn to use graphic design software ,3d animation and video editing , post ...or hell just a idea start with that first before you waste the money :)