Good VJ fees?

[redsky]

Hi VJ people,

I just want have a better idea to what a good VJ can earn
in different parts of europe and Row;

To dermine the criteria, the three parameters could be:

1. Club
2. Sponspored Club Event
3. Corporate

This will help me understand, how this market works compared
to the DJ market, where I come from ... My interest is to promote
good Vj's all around europe in different scenario's as partially listed above.

I think this thread can open many issues of what should a Vj be
payed?

Thanks
from
redsky alias kathy

[Kyle]

Tough question, your gonna get a sliding scale from 0-thousands of euros.

[3YE]

club events:

best suggestion i heard was 6% of the door minimum, excluding beamer hire

wish I'd known that a few months ago though. it's definitely part of our negotiating strategy now.

[fuussmuuss]

club 0-350 ?
sponsored club: from 0 up to 2000-3000?
corporate: 500-3000

some prices for luxembourg. but for 80% of the fees they tend more to the half of the prices. the really high fees are exceptions!

[unjulation]

best suggestion i heard was 6% of the door minimum, excluding beamer hire
1) you have to trust the premotores/door staff/etc to - a) be able to count over ten and b) not lie to you about the number of people - unless you or someone you trust be on the door all night

so personaly i think that trying to get a % is a wast of time and causes to meny hassels think about some of the people we have worked for mate and wether you would trust - wether they are being manuplulitive or just plane fucked up on whatever......them

then think about what happens if no one terns up, thats not the vj's fault, you get 6% of nothing, you still get nothing

so i would allways go with a flat fee and the only way i'd use a % figer like that is to possably work out what price you carge within a club in the first place based upon the club capacity

as for thwe actualy figger it depends upon who/what/whare your working for

[seex]

I think door minimum is what the club has to make on the tickets to cover the expenses of the event, thats a fixed sum. If you dont have your own person on the door or the bar you will get cheated by defult. Always set a fixed price... no visitors is usulay means bad promotion and thats got nothing to do with your work.

CLubs 300 eur
Sponsored 300-1000 eur
Corporate events 1000 eur- 3000 eur

The price depends on who is paying and what he expecets of me, i charge duble for custom made visulas. I only work for free if its a friend or a crew i support and i know they cant afford andt that the event will be great.

[Rovastar]

Often look at a guide of 5% or something of what you can/should be paid.

Thus different venues/admissions are different amounts. Look at the capacity of teh club, ask even how many though the door they take first thenyou have a price in your head.

That to me is kind of what of price you can pitch at. That is for clubs.

When you talk about corp events then it depends on who they are and their knowledge of visuals. I think about ?1,000 a scene is reasonable.

[Nolinx]

Hard one!!

It all depends also on where you are. ie the country and club, and who you are dealing with! Here in Portugal the fees are to say the least quite shitty! The better gigs are the ones along side bands who can bake your cachet into a succesion of concerts, and therefore justify your price. The other thing you should be careful of is overpricing yourself out of the market! Put a reasonable cachet on yourself and use it so as to get more gigs, thereby expand your work over more places! I find that when most dj crews have experienced good visuals at their gigs, they find it hard to do without the next time!! I know that overhere most poeple are in music business just for the money, so if they can divide another 200 euros between themselves... they will and put up some dodgy crash test videos instead!!

[eirenah]

ha. this has been discussed many many times but we'll never find a clear answer. Where you perform (continent, country) has a lot to do with it too (form aspect of living standards).

Originally posted by seex
CLubs 300 eur
Sponsored 300-1000 eur
Corporate events 1000 eur- 3000 eur

...I only work for free if its a friend or a crew i support and i know they cant afford and that the event will be great.

huh. then if i had your atitude when you (as a promoter) invited Scarab and me (as VJs) to Ljubljana, we wouldn't be there, no? So basically, when you hire/pay VJs you have different theory then when you are VJing... Don't missunderstand me, we met in real life and you're a great guy and we had some nice brainstormings and the event was great, so it did pay off in 'karma money':)

[seex]

Not realy where i wuld discuss this but non the less....

I made it clear That what i culd afford to pay you two is not what you deserved and not what i wuld expect, so i owe you two one and thats no mistery too. For the record, id gladly come down and vj for the same fee if its an event thats done with the heart in the rigth place. The event were disscussing here was a free event with no goal to make profit but rather cover the expenses, we didnt mange that cus we put qality in the first place, but no one is complaining since we are only satring to organise such big events.

And about the attitude, there is always a starting price that shuld be negotiated, the price is usualy lowered so this is where i start, what i get out depends on the type of the event, but i did get these prices more or less. 3000 eur is alot for vjing with sampled material but when you do some production work its realy not that much. I think production is a part of vjing too.

All the prices i stated incude expenses, and maybe this is not what the original poster was asking, so they shuld be viewed as how much i cost the promotor, how much i actualy earn out of this is a diferent thing and it depends on how resorsfull i get with renting stuff and covering the expenses of production.

So geting a price is one thing, developing a market is a difernt one, a price is a big issue and i dont mind vjing for less than stated if i know that the promotor has no idea what i do and will hire me again when he realises the benefits of having visuals. I think globaly the vj scene is still in the phase of developing the market but once a low price is established its realy hard to rise it. So when a promotor is not willing to pay what i expect i say: ill come and do this for free cus i dont work for such a low price, but you seem like a ok guy or the event seems well organised and i want to do it for you. The next time he calls the price is the same but he knows what hes buying.

[WordVirus23]

who chided me for not charging at *LEAST* 7% of the replacement cost of the gear I'd brought... which sounds fair... 7-10%... works out around 300 bux a night... wish I was making that, usually about 100 USD. this is at a club... sponsor is hopefully "giving" me 500 on top of regular pay, so I guess sponsored club in central cali (inland) would be about 6-800 USD

..james...

[eirenah]

Originally posted by seex
For the record, id gladly come down and vj for the same fee if its an event thats done with the heart in the rigth place. The event were disscussing here was a free event with no goal to make profit but rather cover the expenses

I know that very well. That's why i did apply and came, i did enjoy, and that's exactly why i mentioned 'karma fees'.

So when a promotor is not willing to pay what i expect i say: ill come and do this for free cus i dont work for such a low price, but you seem like a ok guy or the event seems well organised and i want to do it for you. The next time he calls the price is the same but he knows what hes buying.

That seems right. It's kind of exception that defines the rule.
Being part of both sides (organization and VJing) is a good predisposition to be realistic enough with prices (you get and give).

[unjulation]

Being part of both sides (organization and VJing) is a good predisposition to be realistic enough with prices (you get and give).
dont you just luv it when that happens..........aye it realy does make you understand how both sides deal with the externall preshures of the whole sha-bang :cool:

[WordVirus23]

on VHS... 500 bux... dropping the tape off right now
<dances to www.philosomatica.com around his living room>

..james...

what'd *you* do this afternoon?

[videoteque]

It's very different if you want to do a one party thing or is a regular job...

As a one party, if the budget is high, it's all about your business abilities to negotiate. For a residency, in the zone of Rome I see very difficult to surpass the 200? per night...

I would love to be corrected. Promoters out there seeking to pay a VJ insane amounts of cash to see what turns out, I am your man!!!;) ;) ;)

[Igro]

As totaly new to this i would like to ask what exactly does "sponsored" means?
Sorry for OT.

[charlielangridge]

As the moderator of this area I would kindly request that any personal issues are debated (and resolved hopefully) off public forums.

I would also add from past experience that prices range from artisit to artist and from area to area. Putting what you charge on a public forum may not be a good idea. This is for two reasons:

1) If you prices are tailored to the event you are quoting for, a promoter could see your published prices which may not be what you are wanting to charge them, causing problems

2) Certain unscrupulous people in you area, having discovered what you charge could deliberatly undercut you in order to get the gig.

Hopefully over the next few years these problems will resolve themselves as promoters start to see differences between acts, and book not only based on cowst, but on quality etc, but at the moment i would recomend the above advice

[bluesi]

2) Certain unscrupulous people in you area, having discovered what you charge could deliberatly undercut you in order to get the gig.

Yes indeed charlie, dam them bottom feeders.

As totaly new to this i would like to ask what exactly does "sponsored" means?

Does exactly what is says on the tin. When you as the VJ are part of the push to get some sort of advertising or brand into a clubing arena. The event might be completely layed on by the sponser or just part financed with the promoter. But you can always count on there being a heap load more cash then your regular club night because the sponser has a vested interest in making everyone perform well.

[PilotX]

Originally posted by bluesi
Does exactly what is says on the tin. When you as the VJ are party of the push to get some sort of advertising or brand into a clubing arena. The event might be completely layed on by the sponser or just part financed with the promoter. But you can always count on there being a heap load more cash then your regular club night because the sponser has a vested interest in making everyone perform well.

in the UK Smirnoff run regular promotional events (the next one in brum is free entry) , at which they invite down 400-500 local luminaries - the people they want to influence and 800 or so punters.. there is loads of cash because they are basically using it for marketing - primarily to the 400 or 500 people they invite down (clients, local arts and council people etc) and secondarily to the general public (association with good music event etc.).
therefore a truly sponsered night should be seen as a 5 hour (or so) advert for the company.. and charged at a higher rate then your promotor trying to break even with music they love kind of night..

[eirenah]

Originally posted by charlielangridge
As the moderator of this area I would kindly request that any personal issues are debated (and resolved hopefully) off public forums.

I presume this stands for my post... so i am really sorry i posted that

but i want to say that this wasn't a personal issue that has to be solved (bot sides are satisfied and there's nothing to solve) i just thought it's a right thing to mention when i noticed a contradiction between what i read and what i know.

and the actual point of my post was - we would all have different atitudes about fees if we would be promoters. And someone who does both is not in a favourable position at all...

my apologies once again...

[charlielangridge]

Originally posted by eirenah
I presume this stands for my post... so i am really sorry i posted that

but i want to say that this wasn't a personal issue that has to be solved (bot sides are satisfied and there's nothing to solve) i just thought it's a right thing to mention when i noticed a contradiction between what i read and what i know.

and the actual point of my post was - we would all have different atitudes about fees if we would be promoters. And someone who does both is not in a favourable position at all...

my apologies once again...

No Probs, I just didnt want to see it get nasty :)

[turkish]

I fail to see why anyone would work for free in a club environment.

If drinks are being sold on the premises then the club is making profit. If you are not being paid for your 'services rendered' then there is something very very wrong in that equation.

You are bringing equipment to the club and I'm sure you will have devoted some time previously in pre-production. Why on earth should you work for free?

And the argument that "I'm supporting my friend and doing him a favour" - What a total load of bollocks. If he/she is working for free in a club environment where drinks are being sold and a profit made then he/she's also a mug.

Only thing is you're a bigger mug cos they got you roped in too!

[Anyone]

there are no standards for VJ fees,
as VJs arent unionised...

as with DJs, VJ fees will be proportionate to their reputation,
again comparing with the DJ,
tiesto doesnt get the same fee as DJ local pub.

Undercutters who play for 10 ?/?/$ are basically saying
that's what they're worth,
as a promoter, I wouldnt touch a VJ with a low self esteem...

you get what you pay for.

Ne1

[fluchtpunkt]

a minimum of 150% of what djs get. ;)

[wellREDman]

Originally posted by Anyone
as a promoter, I wouldnt touch a VJ with a low self esteem...


thats exactly the sort of VJ promoters love

[CA]

Looks like I need to move to Europe, where club owners and promoters are still made of money and vj jobs are so plentiful they flow up from the sewers, washing from feet the sludge and grime that is known as "day job"...lol

I feel what everyone is saying about getting paid but i dont think that VJing, as an art (if thats what it really is) has progressed, in regards to public interest, to the point where we can always expect some huge amount of cash for what we do. I mean how many people are going to come out to see a vj alone. 100? maybe 200 if it is some kind of special art exhibit?

A club needs these things to operate a successful night.

A DJ
A sound system
A light show
some booze

Ever thing else is just a nice add on.

I know a lot of you wont agree with me, and I dont agree with me on these points all the time ether
;)

I use Vjing as a tool to meet people who might be interested in other video services that I can offer and to build my skills in After Effects, FCP, and other programmes. I hate to sound like my pop but Vjing is a not career. Its extra cash, drink tickets, and connections.

CA

[Kyle]

Definitely move to Europe or out of Michigan. Because apparently clubs are taking notice. I get credit for my gigs on flyers and I get paid for the work that I do.

[CA]

Wow, thats sweet. I guess its only another 3 to 4 years before compensation like that move to the great lakes region. ha

[wellREDman]

Originally posted by CA
A club needs these things to operate a successful night.

A DJ
A sound system
A light show
some booze

CA

you forgot toilets

i use the fact that toilets are higher on the list of priority than me to help my feet on the ground

[LEVLHED]

Originally posted by CA
3 to 4 years before compensation like that move to the great lakes region.

if we're lucky! maybe by the time I'm 40.

[julez]

I use Vjing as a tool to meet people who might be interested in other video services that I can offer and to build my skills in After Effects, FCP, and other programmes. I hate to sound like my pop but Vjing is a not career. Its extra cash, drink tickets, and connections.

yup same.

therefore when working as a vj (and a minor one at that) i charge accordingly


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Anyone
as a promoter, I wouldnt touch a VJ with a low self esteem...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thats exactly the sort of VJ promoters love

yeah too many unscrupulous promoters are willing to sacrifice quality and prey on an innocent inexperienced vj while in search of a free gig

[Anyone]

Originally posted by CA
A club needs these things to operate a successful night.

A DJ
A sound system
A light show
some booze

Ever thing else is just a nice add on.


really depends on where you are in the world,
and the size of the venue...

Japan, The Nethelands, some parts of Germany,
visuals are mandatory...

a club without visuals is like a band without a 'pop promo' (video clip).
you may get along fine without one,
and it's extra spending to do,
but don't complain if your single doesn't show on MTV...

I estimate we are now where bands were in the 70s.
now,
which VJ is going to produce the equivalent of 'bohemian rapsody' ?

Ne1

[CA]

I estimate we are now where bands were in the 70s.
now,
which VJ is going to produce the equivalent of 'bohemian rapsody'

I agree with that. But your toilet remark...well lets just say that ive been in some clubs where the bathroom were a LOW priority. lol

[wellREDman]

Originally posted by CA
I agree with that. But your toilet remark...well lets just say that ive been in some clubs where the bathroom were a LOW priority. lol
too true
but no matter the quality, there IS always a bathroom

[dubassy]

talking about fees and bathrooms . i've lost my usual monthly residency at the vibe bar in east london for the last couple of months as they had to shell out to refit the toilets and as a result couldn't afford to pay me!!

[Anyone]

Vibe bar was actually the first venue in London where I played in 1999,
where talvin singh saw my work and took me on a world tour!

what's the capacity of Vibe bar? 150?

how come promoters are paying for the toilets?
or were you working for the management?

Ne1

[sleepytom]

Originally posted by wellREDman
there IS always a bathroom Umm not true - i've played a venue with absolutly no toilets at all (ok so it was in bosnia) must be the exception that proves the rule.

[dubassy]

i'm booked by the vibe bar itself, to accompany different nights each month..

i really enjoy the nights i do there. as early in the night, people are just sitting around and quite often watching the visuals. later on the couches are removed to create the dancefloor and cos of the lowish ceilings , some of the screen disappears , with dancers.

the capacity is much more that 150. in the summer with the outdoor part its probably 600/700. plus there is a back room used for some nights with another 300 spaces..

[Anyone]

Originally posted by wellREDman
but no matter the quality, there IS always a bathroom

Actually now I remember going to a squat party
with no running water
in winter in north London,
so people just spontaneously chose a far corner of the venue
to relieve themselves...

the visuals were quite good that night though,
guess it's easier to find a VJ in London than a plumber!

Ne1

[sleepytom]

its certainly easyer to find a VJ who'll work all night for no pay and half an E than it is to find a plumber who'll do his job for the same deal ;)