OPENsource TZT

[MoRpH]

Ok not sure which of you have managed to catch the BREAKING hot news @ http://www.vjcentral.com/comment/show/9570
but Triplet is planning to opensource TZT.... WOOOOHOOOO.

Obviosly an awesome chance for the coders and other ppl out there to contibute to making one of the best VJ softwares around even better (eg. native freeframe support, some great little function tweeks, maybe a res improvement ;) )

Just wanting to get a thread rolling so we can start talking about the project :)

[MoRpH]

In response to PiedPiper on the TZT review OpenTZT comment thread.

Try translating amazon.co.jp with http://babelfish.altavista.com/ I found something pretty quick with the gift certificates.

Or alternately we could designate one persons PAYPAL account and all donate to that, and then have one person send the BIG gift certificate (I'm sure we can raise more than 18,900 for all of Triplet's hard work) from there??? I have a pay pal account we can use if needed, don't worry I have no plans to take off with the $$$, especially with all this cool stuff happening @ the mo with freeframe, freechain, OpenTZT and streaming video....... WOW SOOOOOO much happening @ the moment ::jump2: :jump: :jump2: :jump: :D :D :D

[triplet]

:jump2: good job.

How to order an amazon.co.jp gift certificate looks like that of the amazon.com e-mail gift certificate.

That is helpful. Of course, babelfish, too.

[tdeagan]

MoRpH,

Paypal consolidation is a great idea (IMHO), if you're willing to be the host, I'm happy to trust you :nod:

It's a lot easier for me to Paypal from my account to yours (given the state of my credit cards:scared: since it comes directly from my bank account,) what is your Paypal email account to pay to?

I really feel this is the equivalent of Sun offering up StarOffice to become OpenOffice. It's potentially a huge opportunity.

Having said that, I am still in the market for new products coming out of the rock solid coder that is triplet:yep:

--Tim
VJ WYSIWYG

[MoRpH]

I agree this is a chance for a great opensource project from a solid base (just like openoffice, which I use religiously BTW ;) )

my paypal email is grant@projectroom.com if anyone wants to send their donations to OpenTZT there and I'll pass it on in one lump sum to triplet via amazon.co.jp :)

[elbows]

This is great news, Im not a current TZT user but Im very interested in opensource developments so I'll make a donation.

Reading vjcentral I think its 19,800 yen rather tha 18,900, but even so am I converting it right? bargain - less than $200?

[Esotic]

I'll chip in $30.

So how do we get him the money again?

-Esotic

[klumsy]

from my reading on his post, he is not opening the source as far as opensource is concerned, but offering to sell it to people, check what his licensing agreement is , whether each person who can get the source has to pay that much, and what you can and can't do with it.

[PiedPiper]

Yeah triplet said he is happy for the OpenTzT project to be on sourceforge - once he reaches his intended goal for $$ contributions.
So i assume that means anyone can get access to the source, once it's there...

This was actually covered in the original thread. but i'll repeat it here so people dont get confused.

[tdeagan]

As soon as the sum of the contributions reaches about $250AUD ($184USD), Triplet will release the source to the current version of TransZendenT (with some other features like MIDI he says are working,) under the GPL with the expectation that the source will be put on SourceForge as an open source community development project.

To consolidate contributions (triplet wants the end result to be an Amazon.JP gift certificate,) MoRpH has gracefully agreed to let us send Paypal to him (send what you can) and he will sum it up and send triplet a gift certificate. This is extra work on MoRpH's part and I would suggest that anyone who has reservations about taking advantage of his offer should take a look around this board to get a clue about how trustworthy his relationship to this community is.

This is a tremendous opportunity and I hope a lot of folks will send the equivalent of a night of drinks towards triplet in support of this magnanimous move!

--Tim
VJ WYSIWYG

[Esotic]

So MoRpH is the main contact point?

We need a ticker or something so we know how much money we've collectively collected and how much we need to collect to meet our goal.

Like A Jerry Lewis Telathon,

-Esotic

[unfold]

damn, I have no money and no way of transfering it. student...

very nice of Triplet though, I wonder if it means TZT will explode in a lot of flavours.

[MoRpH]

OK current total is 18,364.88 JPY so far as I said I think Triplet deserves far more than 19,800, so we'll jsut keep going with donations....

As for once we get the code, well as I said I think its time for a sourceforge.org account (and make sure we link to FF), I'm not 100% on how to set that up so maybe one of our code or web gurus would like to look into that (or I can some time next week... VERY busy @ the mo), although I am not a coder I would like to have some sort of co-ordinating role as I would like to keep the project focused.

Which relates to the FLAVOUR issue. I think were better off sticking with keeping OpenTZT focused as it is @ the moment rather than splitting it.

But anyway this can all be discussed once the source is up :)

oh and BTW if you don;t have paypal I will accept direct bank deposit or money order (PM for my bank/address details)

[tdeagan]

<disclaimer>
all points to follow are cleary IMHO :P
</disclamier>

Horrible truth #1 - More opensource projects fail/peter-out than succeed.

Horrible truth #2 - Unless there is someone personally interested in making a release happen, they can be a loooong time coming. MoRpH, you could serve a (possibly _the_) critical role without ever typing a line of code. (interesting article: http://www-10.lotus.com/ldd/devbase.nsf/articles/doc2000091200 attempting to debunk the myth that opensource project manage themselves.)

If it was going to be run with a goal in mind (as opposed to 'every coder for themselves and may the best fork win') I would suggest at least a kick-off along these lines:

Once we get the SourceForge set up (and it's really quite simple, I'm prepared to help at whatever level is valuable,)we embark on a Requirements Gathering effort.
A) On some board/wiki/site somewhere, we collect all the things people would like to see OpenTZT do/become.
B) Meanwhile some coders with decent estimation skills cruise throgh the code to get a feel for how workable it will be.
C) Then, we rank those reqs by some simplified prioritization algorithm, typically a scoring by;
-Relative Risk (how likely it is to mess something else up),
-Relative Time,
-Relative Benefit
(we can probably skip Cost and Risk-not-to-do.) The score churns through a basic algorithm and arrives at a score for each req. We sort the list by score and figure out how many make the cut for a first release. This is really easy to do, I have speadsheets and tools that make it straightforward.
D) Developers code and check in to CVS
E) A build is organized
F) Everybody and their mother tests and tests, developers fix and folks test and test.
G) release!
H) fix bugs.
I) release again!

Now it's open source, so all we'd be doing is getting a list of things for people to sign up to. Anyone can do anything they like on their own fork and submit it for inclusion into the main code tree for future releases. Or they can release on their own, no one can stop them. But their are good reasons to use the SourceForge release (tested, documented, etc.)

It would be (again, I'm clear this is IMHO) over-optimistic to expect much from a first release. Heck, it'll be impressive if we actually manage to compile the source in a short time frame. If we can add a couple of simple features and get a start on documenting the code in English, it'll be a big win.

There are alternate models. One heroic programmer (and we have examples in our community,) could adopt the effort and take it over, accepting patches/features from folks as they will. I've got nothing against that approach, heck, I'd sign up to test or document.


Whatever way, it'll be really exciting to know this code has an open future. I expect that a lot of young coder/VJ's will potentially learn thier trade by communing with the source. Heck, maybe this'll start a trend and Svi will go open source and we can cherry pick features :alien:

Okay, enough ranting.
Cheers,
--Tim
VJ WYSIWYG

[triplet]

Thankful to approval persons.

I checked that the amazon.co.jp gift certificate could purchase per 500 JPY. :eek:
I consider that I want morph to contribute a fragment for vjcentral.com. ;)

[Esotic]

does is seem wrong to anyone else that triplet is listed as a "junior member"?

:)

dude, you rock!

-Esotic

[tdeagan]

I lay awake at night and think about software (yes, I am aware of how lame that is:rolleyes: )

OpenTZT is very much on my mind. I'd like to jot down in the thread some of my thinking. I'm egotistical enough to want to post it and sensible enough to know that real life may be very different, so for simplicity's sake, I'll post as if it were the best idea in the world and you all can snipe at will ;)


#) Open Source projects need at least one vocal champion to succeed. In this case, OpenTZT neds someone with broad VJ experience, name recognition and demonstrated commitment to get it on a track to what it could become. This person needs to congeal vision from community and defend that vision from the inevitable distractions as the x number of new people every day encounter and want to change the project. Based on what he has done for TZT to date, I want to pitch MoRpH to be this champion. I believe this would be a big win. PLEASE POST TO SUPPORT THIS SO WE CAN KEEP MOMENTUM UP!:yep:

#) Open Source projects need multiple coders to step up to the plate to make them succeed. In this case, OpenTZT needs folks with C++ experience. Should the heavens open and produce a Japanese speaking C++ multimedia coder, nirvana will have been achieved:love:. But in the meantime, regular coders working in English would be super useful. (at this point the room should be getting foggy as the incantations and ceremonial magik I am performing to entice Esotic into becoming obsessed with this project overwhelm all readers...) There are lots of things that VB coders and scripters can do (I'll brainstorm a few farther down.) Step up to the plate!

#) Open Source projects need a home on the web to succeed. SourceForge is the obvious target. I want to pitch to everyone that after we exceed the minimum amount going to triplet (and I think he deserves a LOT more than the minimum,) we should divert $39 from the collection to purchase a one-year SourceForge premium subscription. This will add a lot of functionality above the basic subscription. PLEASE POST TO SUPPORT THE DIVERSION OF $39 AFTER WE MEET TRIPLET'S TARGET. Additional monies collected could then return to going to triplet.

#) When we get the source, according to triplet, at the very least the comments (and possibly all of it,) will be in Shift-JIS. This is an alternative to Unicode (predates it) that is very popular in Japan. It is my plan to write some scripts (I'm a Python guy) to pull the comments out and feed them through BabelFish for translation and then stick them back into the source under the originals (assuming that the whole thing doesn't need to be ported out of Shift-JIS into Unicode thereby making for unforseen wierdness.) I am clear from my previous Babelfish translation experience that this is most likely to be of humorous value, but who knows. Alternately it may be a better plan to post the source as web pages and let BabelFish translate them whole. I'll try both and see what happens.

#) I'm very keen to get a clear esthetic for OpenTZT bought into. Here are some of the things I would pitch for;

- Stable and Fast. Feature bloat can kill usefulness. Keeping OpenTZT a rock solid performance tool would be a key goal for me. Even if this means that it doesn't do better than 320x240 for a long time.

- Keyboard driven. Sure it's great than you_can_use the mouse, but being able to use the keyboard exclusively is actually a HUGE plus for the tool. The inventor of the mouse, Doug Englebart, meant for it to be in one hand and a chord keyboard in the other. Using it with a standard keyboard is un-ergonomic. As those of you who have time-pressure jobs with computers (call centers, etc.) know, the mouse slows you down. Granted, it takes a while to get used to using the keyboard exclusively, just like it takes a while to use any control surface effectively. A keyboard is probably the cheapest control surface available on the market, buy one for a few dollars and customize it with colored markers or stickers for TZT and you will ROCK!

- Focus on simple changes first. Both to learn the code and to keep progress moving along. An example of a change I'd love to see is for the F10 bank change to switch you to the same F# on the new bank instead of always moving you to F1. This means that you could navigate through the banks two-dimensionally (think about it.)

Another change that I'd love is if you could rename the F# subdirs. Even if it meant that the first two characters had to stay F1, F2, etc. so that the change to TZT would be to read only the first two chars of the name and then use all the rest of the existing code as is (hopefully.) Then you could have F1-Dancing, F2-Explosions, etc.

- Work for utilities rather than everything in the main build. An example would be a tool in a scripting language or VB that made subdir clip management easier. Something that output the TZT structure but thumbnailed and previewed clips, maintained comments, retained multiple configs, etc.. This kind of prog doesn't need any impact on the TZT code at all and could be a fun project for someone or multiple someones.


Okay, clearly I type too much.
Cheers,
--Tim
VJ WYSIWYG

P.S. if triplet is a junior member then I shudder to think what my 'title' ought to be....

[Esotic]

There is no need to court me on this issue. I'm already drooling at the opportunity to get my grubby little paws on the TZT codebase.

Translating all the comments through babelfish is a fantastic idea.

Speed (in a realtime application) should always be the top priority, with usability a very close second. I'd like to do some tests with different video clip/memory caching mechanisms. And maybe add multithreading, cuz I hate that TZT pauses when loading clips and stuff. And then having the color border around an effect change based on how much processing time that piece of the puzzle is consuming (like green for super fast and red for hogging cycles).

And then adding a mechanism to blend two clips using a third. I'm thinking the best place for that would be a video slot at the end of the two video channels that would blend them together.

But yeah, we need to figure out who is commited to working on this, get up to speed with the technology, and then brainstorm about enhancements and prioritize them and dole out the assignments to the coder that makes the most sense. Like I'm guessing that Pete Warden would be the perfect person to add FreeFrame plug-in support.

And yeah, I would personally be willing to pay the $39 a year for the sourceforge account.

My heart is made of chrome, my soul is made of songs,

-Esotic

[echelon]

Hi there,

I've just read the article about the open source project.
Triplet -> this is a great oppotunity to make your program even better. Without it I wouldn't have had a nice gig @ Contact Europe!!

If I only think of the possibilities with Freeframe, MIDI support and even maybe a higher resolution output....maybe even flash support....can't wait to be your beta-tester!

I'd really like to contribute in this project but I've got no idea how... I'm not a coder nor a japanese translator. Helping with Babelfish seems to be a good alternative...I'd like to sent some money to give my contribution to the project...

Morph -> expect some money from .NL on your account soon!

greets
echelon :D

[Esotic]

I'm pretty sure TZT already supports flash.

But I think you have to enable the quicktime engine in the INI.

I'm sure the TZT coding posse will need plenty of BETA testers. ;)

-Esotic

[tdeagan]

If this community can't kick up a wicked good logo contest I damn sure don't know who can!

(Ahhhhh, t-shirts:cool: )

--Tim
VJ WYSIWYG

[Esotic]

Where the hell did that comment come from?

-Esotic

[tdeagan]

Sorry. :rolleyes:

Your comment about BETA testers somehow kicked off an intense vision of OpenTZT t-shirts (schwag for OpenTZT testers.) Of course t-shirts need a logo and after watching some of the Photoshop images pass through the heads of the folks on this board it seemed like a wicked logo ought to spring forth easily. Of course, then my 'play fair' hangups got involved, so I framed it in terms of a contest.

All in all it was a failure of my meds occurring too close to a keyboard :crazyeyes:

--Tim
VJ WYSIWYG

[PiedPiper]

- in a homer simpson voice

"mmmmmm Source Code!!!!"

A sourceforge account does sound like a good idea.
Maybe we could ven have a section of the VJ forums dedicated to OpenTzT / development /discussion /testing/ feature requests/ etc..

Personally i am most interested in sorting out the midi support - i'm unsure as to what stage it's at in the version triplet will release.

I like esotic's notion of colour coding the fx's according to proc requirements.

I also like the idea of maybe a bit of multi-threading
as i'm sure this will benifit people with HT -enabled cpu's to get a bit of a jump in performance.

On the subject of a logo, i think i should match the program icon for OpenTzT are we indending to change the icon from what it presently is?
I like it, that symbol just translates into sick gfx for me!

exciting times ahead people,
it's a great time to be vj + coder!

[unfold]

*money sent*

A separate bit in the VJF forums is a good idea, or some sort of forum/wiki somewhere. Otherwise this place could have a milion "ooh, this would be nice in openTZT" threads.

on that note, someone please remove the double-shift to open te text edit and replace it by some other button. :P It's cramping my TZT-scratching style.

[MoRpH]

ok current total is $198 USD (21,780.38 JPY), so we have made the minimum target, now we are working on giving triplet what TZT is REALLY worth.

MASSIVE props to pete warden who donated $100 USD to the project!! I'm donating 1 day of my pay from my current casual work @ the end of the week (about $150 AUD).... these are the donations to get things CRANKING but every little bit helps. The way I'm looking @ it, this is my chance to pay Triplet back for all the great shows I could not have done without his software (and all the money I made that paid my rent and put food on the table, when I needed it).

To adress some of the points made so far (going backwards as I read them below).

A forum for the project will come with the sourceforge account I am lead to believe, thats included with their premium accounts Tim?

I like the doubleshift, I think we can come up with a better scratching option for TZT (touch pad scratching anyone ;) )

Multithreading is a good idea if it gets rid of the lag in TZT when triggering a new clip, so I guess it should be a priority

I like the current icon, but I guess with the project being open we'll take a vote on that and a new icon if we go for one.

A logo for the project is a great idea and I guess it will tie in with the icon stuff above.

TZT does already support flash, turn Quicktime on in the .ini file

A mask p/layer is a great idea, as is possibly and extra general p/layer.

Something designating CPU use on each element (player, FX, etc) is a great idea as long as it doesn't add to much over head. Of maybe its best left for a DEV version?

I to agree (if he is willing) pete should be the man to add FF support.

I would be HONOURED to be "project champion". Although I would say all decisions would be made democraticaly in the sourceforge forum.

I would say a premium sourceforge account paid from the first round ;) of contributions is a given.

Comments from the source will be translated ASAP via Babelfish (feel free tim) and hopefully we can get a japanese coder to do it properly @ some stage.

I agree with keeping TZT STABLE & FAST as number 1 priority.

I agree with keeping the focus of TZT on being KEYBOARD driven, which doesn;t mean ignoring midi or other control options but EVERYTHING should have sensible and well placed keyboard controls (no like the cruddy mouse dragging in other apps..... touch a mouse on stage... AS IF!! :eek: )

I agree with the more 2d setup of the F-keys and the idea of being able to extend the directory names.

I LOVE the idea of auxillary apps relating to clip management and ANYTHING that ppl would think would be useful to keep "feature bloat" in TZT down.... Personally I would LOVE to see a drag and drop time line app that outputs TZT directories with clips and a txt file of keypresses and timings (that TZT could read) so you could fully script a show.

Triplets junior member/lack of VJC karma, I know your all jsut stirring or what ever but yeah I might throw eX an email and see about throwing some karma in, as for status ppl edit that depending on post numbers (its part of the forum software)

I'll definately pass a portion of excess fund to exhale for you triplet :)

I read the article tim, very interesting... but I'm up for the challenge ;) BTW I don't see SVi going OSS anytime soon, its been driving chris (OISHII) nuts for years.

[triplet]

Congratulations!! Good job MoRpH!

First of all , I hope for the receipt of the amazon.co.jp gift certificate to deliver a source code early.

I mail source files and related files(bitmap,text...) as soon as that is received.

[MoRpH]

No probs mate, actually jsut need to take some time tomorrow evening to set it up, jsut heading to bed and a full day of work tomorrow :)

[tdeagan]

Getting itchy to see how translatable the source will be,. It occurred to me that the sample code for generators that triplet provides with the distribution is likely to be very similar to the source code of the main product.

So I took the main.cpp file and looked at it. I tried shoving it through Babelfish directly which didn't work.

The reason is that the funky chars representing the Japanese comments weren't set up on my Texas-based box to display as Japanese (no Shift-JIS support enabled, easy to do, see http://www.theforeigner-japan.com/index.htm?http://www.theforeigner-japan.com/japsup.htm)

So I added HTML headers:
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html;charset=Shift_JIS">
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<PRE>

and footers:
</PRE>
</BODY>
</HTML>

and shoved it up onto a website:

http://wysiwygvideo.com/main.html

Where it displayed nicely as Japanese.

It still wouldn't run through BabelFish as a whole page with satisfactory results. But individual comments ran through with decent results. Here's an example:

//波形データが更新(Render関数を呼び出す直前)された時に呼び出されます
// ※ 録音中でない場合は引数が(pwave==NULL && pspectrum==NULL)になります
// ※ 取得した波形データに変更を加える場合は自前の領域にコピーしてください
//(波形データは改変禁止です)

becomes:

When/the waveform data renewal (immediately before calling Render function) being done, it is called, when/* it is not in the midst of recording, argument becomes (pwave==NULL && pspectrum==NULL), when/* modification is added to the waveform data which is acquired, please copies/(the waveform data is alteration prohibition in the personally owned territory)

Cleary I'll have to strip out all comments chars to keep from translating them, but that's just string parsing. I'll run it line by line instead of in blocks.

Now I'll have to gen up some code that will happily call the babelfish page and work the form over and bring back the results. (doing a successful Shift-JIS transformation along the way.) Then shove it into the source below the originals.

I would LOVE to hear from anyone who has undertaken this kind of hack. The good news is that it is do-able, just a fair amount of work.

--Tim
VJ WYSIWYG

[tdeagan]

WorldLingo at:
http://www.worldlingo.com/wl/translate

is maybe a bit better (allows you to define the type on content, i.e., Computers/IT)

Here's the same translation as was done by BabelFish:

//When the waveform data update (immediately before accessing Render
function) being done, it is accessed,/ * When it is not in the midst of recording, becomes argument
(pwave==NULL && pspectrum==NULL),/ * When modification is added to the waveform data which is acquired,
please copy in the personally owned area/(As for waveform data it is alteration inhibitation)

While slow, I find the translation of triplet's website easier to follow from WorldLingo as well.

--tim
VJ WYSIWYG

[Esotic]

I may have a lead on a Human Translator!

It's not for sure, but my main DJ is connecting with a Japanese coder in the next couple days. I have yet to actually communicate with him, but will keep everyone up to date on the details.

But yeah, I would say WorldLingo is the way to go (from looking at your sample texts). I'll have to update the link on my website.

-Esotic

[Esotic]

TZT website through WorldLingo:

http://www.worldlingo.com/wl/translate?wl_lp=JA-en&wl_glossary=gl1&wl_fl=3&wl_ucp=1&wl_rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fmnemoniq.zapto.org%3A8008%2Ft zt%2F&wl_url=http%3A%2F%2Fmnemoniq.zapto.org%3A8008%2Ftz t%2F&wl_g_table=-3

Sometimes it times out and doesn't translate everything. :-\

-Esotic

[MoRpH]

Yeah a human trans would be best, or we can consider coughing up the $$$ for a human translation service that specializes in code/IT

OH and jsut so we are all on the same page. I CAN'T ACCEPT CREDIT CARD donations via PAYPAL, I would have to get a business account and I'm not ready to do that yet, although its not out of the question for the future if we do other fund raising or other OpenTZT related stuff that needs it.

[MoRpH]

also current donations are @ $197 USD in my paypal and $35 in my personal bank account (direct deposit option for aussie vjs donating).

So I'm going to sort a amazon gift for Triplet when I get home from work tonight for 22,000 JPY so we can get the source released. Then I'll pop into source forge and set up a premium account there with the $35 + some money from my CC (my big donation is delayed a week, damn business clients)... anyways. Once thats done I'll post all details.

PLEASE if you have the intention of donating PLEASE still do so. I'll be accepting the donations still and once we get together what TZT is REALLY worth, I'll break it up and get triplet another amazon gift with 3/4 of it and then 1/4 i'll paypal on to exhale for a VJC/F donation.

[unfold]

.... while I think the effects should be midi-fied asap and the clip triggering and fading can wait.

Really, everyone has tons of ideas of what they want obviously, but maybe we should wait until we have the sourceforge account so we can make a list of things there together, then prioritise democratically, etc like someone here proposed.

[MoRpH]

Yeah hold your bloody horses. NO FEATURE REQUESTS until we get the source, sourceforge account (both hopefully in the next few days) and then get a BASIC translation and WORKING compile of Triplet's code. THANKYOU.

Also I don't recall seeing Mbazzy on any of the donations yet to arrive in my account ;)

And once all thats done, all this convo will be moving to sourceforge.

[Mbazzy]

:o OK, I've deleted my feature request post .. sorry for the hassle ... do understand your point though ...

Morph - no I haven't donated yet ... thanks for putting it so in the spotlights ...:o

[MoRpH]

no probs :D time to get donating then :)

ok folks I jsut sent triplet a amazon.co.jp gift certificate for 22,000. Here is a worldlingo.com translation of the confirmation email

------------------------------------------------
Amazon gift certificate ordering, thank you for.

Order contents of the customer are as follows. When you view the
up-to-date information of order of the customer, please jump in
following URL.

Http: /Www.AmazonCo.Jp/Your-account

Or, AmazonCo.It is on each page right of the jp Web sight, please click "the
account service" link button.

------------------------------------------------------------

Quantity: 1 amount: XXYEN 22,000

Amazon gift certificate: XXYEN 22,000 postage: Free consumer
tax: XXYEN 0 ------- total: XXYEN 22,000

Ahead delivering: Triplet_tone@hotmail.Com




AmazonCo.As for the one which we would like to know in detail concerning jp,
please view the guide for the customer whom you utilize for the first
time.

Http: /Www.AmazonCo.Jp/First-time-visitors

AmazonCo.In the customer of jp, importance modification and Amazon of Web
sightCo.We guide service and the news of the special offer item whose jp is
new, on occasion with the up-to-date information mail. Fully loading
the information where serves the purpose of the customer, we have
delivered the up-to-date information mail.

AmazonCo.Jp utilizing, thank you for.

-------------------------------------------------------------Amazon.Co.Jp and you're done.
AmazonCo.Jphttp: /Www.AmazonCo.Jp/
-------------------------------------------------------------

Just popping over now to Sourceforge to sign up our account.

Keep donating folks :)

[triplet]

I got amazon.co.jp gift certificate 22,000 JPY.

source files is here.

http://mnemoniq.zapto.org:8008/tzt/openTZT.zip

congratulation! :jump2:

[MoRpH]

Thanks triplet I got it :)

I have just submitted to Sourceforge our request for the OpenTZT project, now I jsut have to wait to hear back if they accept us or not and I'll put a copy of the source up on there. I guess if for some odd reason they don't we'll have to set up our own site with forums, etc.

Tim maybe if you would like to have a crack @ that babel/worldlingo translation in the mean time... oh and Esotic, go crazy mate :)

[direktor]

It will be something huuuuuuuuuuuge :nod: :yep: :jump2:

[tdeagan]

I traded sleep for coding last night and got the basics of a comment translator working. (razzafrazzing US machine, Unicode encoding, CJK multiple codecs, Shift-JIS wierdness, web service freakiness...)

I'm hitting webservicex's SOAP interface with comment lines yanked from source. I got the translation part working and now need to do the house keeping that will feed the beast files and spit translated ones back out (without munging their compiling ability)

I'm going to put VC++ and Visual Studio on my machine this afternoon, so that should help.

--Tim
VJ WYSIWYG

[Esotic]

Rockpants!!!! Total Rockpants!!!

I know what I'm doing this weekend. :D

And I don't personally mind anyone making feature requests. I'm all about having a feature request forum. Just don't expect it to get done right away. ;-)

Usually I find coming up with the ideas is the hard part. Coding it is just a matter of time. The more ideating the more we can pick and choose what makes the most sense.

Triplet is the fucking man!

Somebody pinch me, I think I'm dreaming,

-Esotic

[unfold]

http://www.sadgeezer.com/RedDwarf/cat2.jpg

I'm so excited, all six of my nipples are tingling!

I wonder how far Triplet got with the midi implementation.

[tdeagan]

IT COMPILES!!! (mostly)

My buddy just ran it through Visual Studio and it compiled. Here are his notes:
....
I had to delete a couple of backslahses that were being interpreted as
line continuation characters. One in directx.h and one in directx.cpp,
I think. Also, I haven't managed to get the right quicktime library, or
something. Can't get the QT part to compile. There are a couple of
other DLL's that seem to have compiled.

Oh, and these are all debug versions, so they will be much larger than
normal released files. Also, this is all using the .Net version of C++,
there are files called things like vcproj.old that look like old style
C++ but I am using the new IDE.
.....

I downloaded it and it ran. <THIS IS NOT A FINAL VERSION, JUST A STOP ALONG THE WAY>

I'm at work and can't check MIDI in it, but I'm attaching just for kicks. It needs to go into a TZT dir structure, it's just the executables.

Props to my buddy Yertle!

--Tim
VJ WYSIWYG

[Esotic]

Anybody else scouring the source?

:nod:

Anybody else making a list of feature enhancements to post to sourceforge once it goes live?

:nod:

Hmmm... so the code is .Net? Do you think it'll compile in Visual Studio 6? I may have to "upgrade", huh?

Exciting times indeed,

-Esotic

[PiedPiper]

Trying to install visual studio .net as we speak so i can see if i can get it to compile.

[WordVirus23]

Originally posted by unfold
http://www.sadgeezer.com/RedDwarf/cat2.jpg

I'm so excited, all six of my nipples are tingling!

I wonder how far Triplet got with the midi implementation.

CAT IS AWESOME! AAAWWW!

[tdeagan]

I got the largish parts of the source-translation script working.

I can read the source files, parse out the Shift-JIS (however, this remains a furball), encode to UTF-8, structure a POST call to the translator, get the results back and write out a new version of the source file.


I took a look at the actual source and it looks like one of the major targets of opportunity are the strings in the DebugOut statements.

<whining>
It's actually a bitch getting the right stuff out to translate. Shift-JIS is a two-byte encoding mingled in with otherwise one-byte ASCII. Successful recognition of which bytes are the Shift-JIS characters and then stringing them together to make the whole phrase to translate (including whatever Roman chars like numerals or parens or whatnot might be mixed in) over multi-line comments is tricky.
</whining>

But, other code manages to do it, so it must be possible. And I am getting useful stuff already.

The good news is that the results are clearly valuable for code comprehension purposes. The output I'm generating is too munged up to compile, and it may be worth just doing all the files and letting folks hand work tham back into shape rather than trying to continually refine my hacked up code.

I'm at work now, but when I get home tonight I'll post some example results and the translation script itself.

--Tim
VJ WYSIWYG

[Esotic]

Hmmm... how about getting the program to send a source file through the translator and then open it up in Notepad (or something). It would be easy enough to just copy and paste the comments into .Net

Which I don't have a copy of yet. :(

But that's not stopping me from perusing the code to figure out what the hell is going on in there. :)

Any news on the Sourceforge account?

Peace,

-Esotic

[tdeagan]

I cleaned up the translation script (it still has zilch for error catching and it needs to run in the same subdir as the file to be translated.) I simplified it dramatically and surprise surprise , it works much better :)

I'm attaching it's output from the Main.cpp file from the OpenTZT Source. I'm also attaching the script.

Translated strings are inserted as a comment directly below the line to be translated.

This "shouldn't" mess up the compile.

-----

In another note, my buddy says he didn't see anything that should definetely keep it form compiling under Visual Studio 6, he just used .NET and saw .NET project files (.sln)

Cheers,
--tim
VJ WYSIWYG

[tdeagan]

Oops. Only one attachment per post I guess.

My 'plans' are to run through all the relevant files in the source tree and post them as a zip. I'm gigging Sat. and taking my wife on a date tonight, so we'll see if I really get the time.... But it's pretty straightforward at this point.

--tim
VJ WYSIWYG

P.S. If you want to run it, strip the .txt off the end of the name. Running from the same subdir as the file to be translated the commandline is 'python comment_trans5.py filename'

Go to python.org to download python

[MoRpH]

No word on the Sourceforge account yet, they say it can take up to a week to get approved and set up.

Keep up the great work folks.

[Esotic]

I don't know anything about Python, except that it's like the new perl (or something). And just so it's said i haven't actually downloaded the script to try it out yet (cuz it's late as hell and I haven't made it home), but I wanted to ask...

Is there anything I should now about running python scripts? Can you give me some pointers to get me going?

I have a lead on getting an academic version of C++ .Net Standard. If anyone knows of a better option or a reason I shouldn't use the standard version please fill me in (via post or email). I don't really mind paying $90 for the regular retail, but at the same time I'm not a big fan of giving M$ money as I feel like I already do plenty of free support for them at my regular job. ;)

They fucking owe me, ya know what I'm saying? And another developer friend of mine was under the impression that the .Net compiler were free somehow, but that didn't seem right.

Random TZT note: On a fresh XPOS TZT was not loading MPG2 files, but then I installed an app for my USB capture device (VStream Xpert DVD Maker) and all is good now (it also installed some Media Player codecs, which may have helped). The full res (720x480) MPG2 clips loaded with just a smidgen of lag and played rather well. If TZT (or windows in general) is not working well for you I highly recommend reinstalling your OS. :)

I render/encode everything in Vegas on my desktop and then copy the files over the network. I rendered some stuff in TMPGEnc once and the files came out smaller, but played slower (were more likely to cause TZT to drop frames). I also don't suggest loading Vegas (or C++) on your show machine/OS as they tend to slow things down (for some unknown reason).

I would normally install dual bootable OS's on my show computer so I can have one whose sole duty is to reprasent at my live shows, but the drive image restore that came with my laptop doesn't really facilitate that. Bastards.

I did a double set tonite with a VJ from DC and it was quite kickin'. Hopefully I can rip the footage and jump onto the DC++ server to share it in the next couple days. I've also made two DVDs in the past week of old-school shows that I did when I was first starting out that I'll be posting up as well. If you want some info the DC++ just ask or do a search on the forums.

The japanese (translator) contact was at the show tonite, but I didn't get a chance to really talk with him (quicky introduction only). He did seem rather impressed by what I/we were doing (kept looking over my shoulder) and I should be able to get an email address.

Destination: Overdrive,

-Esotic

[klumsy]

latest version of ms c++ (.net) IS free, as is C# compiler
its just visual studio, the enviroment that costs money.. but if you are willing to use an alternative ide or nodepad, or COPY CON myprogram.cpp then you can just use the free compiler.

[tdeagan]

Hopefully I'll spare all of you the joy of getting Pythonized by running the script on all necessary files for everyone and posting. I just hated to blab and blab about some little script I'm whacking and not share it. At my company it is obligatory that I get 1 minute and 30 seconds minimum in every meeting to evangalize about Python, so be veeery careful before pulling my string on the topic :nod:

Mostly what I'd like folks to look over is the sample output to see if it's on target or needs tweaking to be useful (bottom line on Python is: free; fun; useful; badass; eats perl's lunch (whoops, there I go, please take it out on me in a different thread so that we don't turn this into python/perl cage match :heart: ) If you want to run the script, I'll be glad to elaborate. In the end the code is dog simple so I really just wanted to let folks see the mechanics in case they want to tweak or roll their own.

I had two TZT crashes on me during my gig tonight. The night sucked so bad anyways that it ended up not mattering. I blame the box (main lappy died, borrowed a new Dell from work to use, got to the show, dicovered no video output (okay, I say, I'll go all lappy tonight (using VGA->projector), turn off the mixer, I'm happy with my clips, show must go on, blah blah, go to plug in my ever-so-wonderful custom TZT keyboard, damn notebook has NO EXTERNAL PS2 PORT, razzafrazzin what the f**k, never mind, I know the keys, I can fake the number pad, whatever, show must go on, blah blah, sh**ty power situation, whole place (outdoor gig) running off single ancient circuit, DJ can't bear to sweat, demands giant fan, someone gets it during show, plugs in, final straw, darkness and silence, I'm also there with my PA and my DMX gear, have to go around stripping out odd lights, subwoofer, power back, DJ must be drinking 'Tussin, playing slooow, quiet music, chairs had all been rearranged from when I'd gone and looked at the place on thursday, screen is now at back of site behind chairs, people bitchin about sound quality, DJ turns out to have never heard of audio equipment other than a cross fader (which she was really snooty about having to use since my DJ gear is solid, but uninspiring, pitch yes, BPM counter and scratching no, but solid Denon dual decks which the first thing she does when she sees is whip out her cell phone and calls the rental place and tries to bribe them with extra money (the club's not hers) to stay open late so she can get real CD-J decks, partly 'cause she though mine were not only lame but broken since it turned out that the first circuit I was told to plug into turned out to be on a freaking dimmer and during sound check (whe the DJ showed up late) someone turned the dimmer to half and all of a sudden all my gear is trying to run on 45V AC, but I take multimeters everywhere in life so I got it figured out, dang it, but it all looked hairy for a while, later of course the 'good circuit' turns out to be coming out of some guys apartment and he'd come home and, after we'd already had the first failure, he turns his air conditioner on and there is silence. darkness. arrgh, I unplug more semi-essential gear, counting watts in my head while people freak out at me, finally turn projector off, pack up lappy and go run lights and sound for the rest of the night, which'd be okay but I had some really cool material 'specially worked up :( Wow. i feel better. sorry:rolleyes: thanks:) ) Anyways, yes I absolutely should have checked the box, but I'd been using it for a week getting codecs and crap straight and it didn't even occur to me that it wouldn't have a FREAKIN PS2 PORT :grrr: okay, okay, sorry, but it's got a DVD player and NO FREAKIN VIDEO OUT :grrr: . no. really. I'm cool now. this was very theraputic. and in the end, they were nice, apologized (not the DJ) and paid me and fed me. :D

Cheers,
--Tim
VJ WYSIWYG

[klumsy]

i haven't seen the code, but i doubt that it is dotnet, but rather just compiled with newer version (dotnet version) of msvc++ which can compile both dotnet, and better and newer native binary code.. (managed code for dotnet and unmanaged code for native).. i would assume it would be native unmanaged code, rather than managed dotnet code otherwise it would probably be made in C#.. it probably will compile nicely under msvc6 with processor packs updates.. the problem is you'd have to make your own solution and project files since it prob has newer visualstudio.net or .net 2003 project/solution files..

you can make your own vs6 project files utilitising the same source .C .CPP and .H files, also you can update to the free msvc7 compiler to use it from the vs6 IDE..

[unfold]

I don't know what any of that means, but welcome to the team !

[tdeagan]

Okay,
I finished up a cheesey batch file with my script and have run it against all the .cpp and .h files in the source tree (easy enough to run it against other files people identify.)

The output is a file with the same name as the file being translated with an additional .txt on the end. Example: main.cpp becomes main.cpp.txt in the same subdir.

the translation appears on the line below the line being translated as a comment line. Example:

int deg_b;//?S??????????
//Int deg_b; / Entire round and round condition

I can reformat the script to change this all up pretty easily. It ran against all the files in 30 minutes.

I rezipped up the whole tree with the translated files. Grab it at:
http://wysiwygvideo.com/openTZT_trans.zip

Cheers,
--Tim
VJ WYSIWYG

[PiedPiper]

Nicely done on the translation stuff ;)

Yeah, whilst the project as provided triplet is set up with project settings for Visual studio ( .net 2003 )
Th project would most likely happily run and could be built in a MSVC 6.0 environment, might take a bit of time to relink all the files and set up the project settings, eh...

Which i guess i will be doing if i cant get a copy of visual studio 2003.


Anyway the comments make the code a good bit more readable,
at least now i have some idea of what i'm looking at.
time to start learning it all i guess ;)

[Esotic]

This may go without saying, but if anyone gets a VisualStudio6 TZT workspace compiling please post up the source.

Thanks,

-Esotic

[klumsy]

i doubt i'll be doiung anything, busy as it is, and never used this software before..
anyway esoric go ahead and find the free msvc7 compiler and plug it into your vs6 so that you get some nicer and faster code :)


on thing, if tranzendent uses newest version of MFC, (prob doesn't use MFC at all) then i doubt you could compile it in vc6.
but it probably has its own UI code from the screenshots.

i'm slightly interested in this software, can anybody tell me its features please. (in english), i get the general gist of things from his website, but there are many characters and technical vocabulary beyond the skill level of my japanese.

[tdeagan]

It'll be quicker if you start with MoRpH's review at:
http://www.vjcentral.com/software/show/1668

Then if there are any questions, we can focus in better.

--Tim
VJ WYSIWYG

[klumsy]

hmm, that description doesn't do anything for me.. needing a scan converter to grab part of the screen.. yuck..
it is also only 16 bit right?

i think i'll stick with visualjockey development, but maybe you'll get some freeframe plugs out of me somehow somewhere sometime :)
got a lot going in VJO with adding scripting language features, ability to control via TCP/IP (and varous control/sequencer apps) i.e on wireless pocketPC, also ability to output parameters via tcp/ip so you can control multiple machines from a central one,
alex's patchbox makes it nice to be able to stream video from different freeframe etc apps as well.. and the new showmode mixer for visualjockey should put the cream on the cake..

from the following of TZT i had kind of othought it may have been some nice directX wonder. what would you guys say its its best feature?

[WordVirus23]

Originally posted by klumsy
what would you guys say its its best feature?

stable, free, active users (who code), runs tits on a less than tits machine, an original developer who open sourced the code for <300 bux... I couldn't even buy a MIDI enabled package of VJO or arkaos for that much... did I mention its quick & stable? :)

[tdeagan]

The review is a good starting place. There are a lot of features that are described in the comments below the review (which is about the original version, many upgrades ago...)

TZT works great with a dual head setup, no scan convertor needed. 16-bit isn't required for _all_ of the effects, but most folks run it that way.

TZT is, in my opinion, optimized as an actual workhorse performance machine. It is stable and fast, keyboard driven, allows for up to 3 clips x 7 effects x 2 busses, handles a broad range of file formats and performs on demand.

Does it blow away commercial software? Some of it, yes. Pick any two VJ (or any other) packages and you can find a flame war between advocates. Given that TZT has huge effects support, stays running, has weeny system requirements, TZT is easily worth 100x it's price :yep:

Now, with OpenTZT, the commercial software better start focusing on support, documentation, etc. because a concerted effort could take this program to the top tier.

For those of you with money to spare, SPEND FREELY :P Buy expensive VJ packages and find out why they're worth the money. For those of you on a budget and still wanting to put out viddys that blow folks away, try TZT!

--Tim
VJ WYSIWYG

[klumsy]

i follow, it sounds good. and i understand the reasons why it is good, just not worth the effort on my part (where time is much more valuable than money). but i would like to follow its progress and play with it sometime.. the dualhead option is nice..

so the 16 bit limitation is because certian effects are hardcoded in 16 bit? other than that you can do things in 32 bit? , i suppose then with the source it would be easy to make a wrapper for 16 bit limited effects to convert to 16 bit, then back to 32 bit (i know quality loss) until somebody bothers to make an optomised 32bit version of the same effect?

i take it then that it is fully software based? rather than 3d hardware? is the final output directX though? (directdraw or d3d onto a texture.. also does it play freeframe plugins? and can you chain freeframe plugins, effects from WITHIN the app?

TZT definately seems to have a bit of a cult following.

[tdeagan]

Cool! Sniffing about the source, I've become very interested in the file SOUND_IN.CPP (in the translated set as;
SOUND_IN.CPP.txt)

This file has the code (I have NO clue if it's working) to define a spectrum analyzer and FFT function which looks like it's ready to do a sound->effect control function.

It looks like most of the pieces are there, I wonder if this is one of the features Triplet alluded to being available in the source release :love:

Hopefully tonight or tomorrow I can try out the debug compile I posted earlier with the .ini settings for MIDI and SoundIN.

--Tim
VJ WYSIWYG

[tdeagan]

Quick code snarf.

According to the function CPerformanceMode::ContMidi() in the PLAY_OP.CPP file, TZT responds to MIDI messages as follows:

data(cc):val:function
data(cc):val:function

[Status = b0] - Control Change
00:00:inputSel = 1 (player 1?)(along with IsMixerEnable & 0x4 ?)
00:01:inputSel = 2 (player 2?)(along with IsMixerEnable & 0x4 ?)
00:32:inputSel = 3 (player 3?)(along with IsMixerEnable & 0x4 ?)

fader = CTRL+NUM
exfader = CTRL+SHIFT+NUM

01:xx:upper_bank active clip speed
02:xx:upper_bank active clip left eff. fader
03:xx:upper_bank active clip left eff. exfader
0a:xx:upper_bank active clip right eff. fader
0b:xx:upper_bank active clip right eff. exfader
07:xx:active_bank full bank eff. fader

04:xx:lower_bank active clip speed
05:xx:lower_bank active clip left eff. fader
06:xx:lower_bank active clip left eff. exfader
0d:xx:lower_bank active clip right eff. fader
0e:xx:lower_bank active clip right eff. exfader
08:xx:active_bank full bank eff. exfader

21:00:player_bottom, edit_top
21:7f:player_top, edit_bottom

[Status = 90] - Note On
01:7f:LCTRL,CAPS,Memory-J
02:7f:LCTRL,CAPS,Memory-K
03:7f:LCTRL,CAPS,Memory-L
04:7f:LCTRL,CAPS,Memory-;
05:7f:LCTRL,CAPS,Memory-:
06:7f:LCTRL,CAPS,Memory-[

07:7f:right arrow
08:7f:down arrow
09:7f:right arrow

0a:7f:BEAT x4 (RSHIFT-8)
0b:7f:BEAT -x4 (LSHIFT-8)

0c:7f:INSERT
0d:7f:HOME

[Status = c0] - Program Change
(along with some other stuff like inputSel (player selected?) and IsMixerEnable)
data = input selector

{I am coming back to this to edit it as I get better info}

There's some guesswork, and I may have misread values, but it's a good place to start when hooking up a MIDI controller to TZT to figure out what is supposed to happen. Keep in mind, these reference a Japanese keyboard.

Cheers,
--Tim
VJ WYSIWYG

[MoRpH]

Nice work tim,

Still no word from Sourceforge yet, will chase it up tonight.

[tdeagan]

I spent a bunch of time last night chasing the MIDI functionality in the new build of OpenTZT. I made progess, but no actual enchilada.

First, from tracking the code, it's clear that you have to run openTZT in 'Advanced Mode' This is enabled by having a subdir in the SysData folder named the same as the license key value in the TZT.INI file. In this license key folder, there needs to be a file called 'advanced.txt', apparently it can be empty, but it has to be there. There is also something in the code called 'Expert Mode' that is enabled if it reads something appropriate out of the advanced.txt file, but I didn't track that down yet.

Luckily, the openTZT version that my buddy compiled (link posted earlier in this thread) is a debug version so it writes out a debug.txt file in the TZT subdir.

Reading the debug.txt file, it's clear that I got TZT up in Advanced Mode and got it in MIDI mode. Alas, what I didn't get are messages indicating that DirectMusic was fired up, which seems to be essential to the midi functionality.

I'll spend more time in the code to try and determine what's up with the DirectMusic loading, if that comes up, I have high hopes for the rest of the MIDI code. Anyone with clues about DirectMusic dependencies would earn my eternal gratitude.

As a note, I was attempting this with the DM2->DM2_to_MIDI->MIDIOX chain. Next time I'll try it with my Edirol UM-1X and a different MIDI control surface in case I'm just not listing the MIDI device correctly.

Cheers,
--Tim
VJ WYSIWYG

[Esotic]

I was able to locate a VC++7 to VC++6 project translation tool.

http://www.codeproject.com/tools/prjconverter.asp?df=100&forumid=10069&exp=0&fr=151

I've downloaded the binaries and source, but haven't given it a whirl yet (cuz I'm at work). Between my regular weekly duties, preparing for my show on Friday, Doom 3, and getting to know the "new girl" I haven't had much time for perusing the TZT source (espeically since I wasn't able to load the project files). I hope to get some time in this weekend. But then again, it might be better if only one person is making code changes at this point (as it could be hard to merge multiple changes into sourceforge when the account finally gets created).

But I did take a look at the translations and they are way cool. Great job, Tim.

Timmy!

-Esotic

[Esotic]

Here's a page that looks good as a quick x86 Assembly Instruction Set Reference.

http://www.emboss.co.nz/pentopt/opcode_i.html

-Esotic

[tdeagan]

Okay, details to follow, but I've managed to stop shouting "OH MY GOD, OH MY GOD!" long enough to post SUCCESS!!

The trick is in the INI file to use 'MIDI Yoke' (without quotes) beside the MIDI= line.

You also have to do the crazy advanced mode thing I described in a previous post. and use the openTZT version I posted a while back.

I've only gotten a couple of the buttons configured, but I'm attaching the dm2midi config file. It needs much work, but I JUST CHANGED THE SELECTED CLIP PLAYER (using the 1-2-3 buttons) AND CHANGED THE EFFECT VALUE FOR BOTH EFFECTS WITH MY DM2 (effect left with left scratch wheel, effect right with the right scratch wheel)!!!!!!!:jump2:

All it needs now is a non-debug version of the code compiled (just for tightness's sake) and to get a full DM2MIDI config built!

My next gig is JAMMIN' NOW!

More soon, I'll trick this all out and write up a cookbook for setting it up this weekend.

http://wysiwygvideo.com/opentzt.dm2

Cheers!
--Tim
VJ WYSIWYG

[unfold]

oh yeah ! hot !

[tdeagan]

Oh, and since I forgot to say it above,

TRIPLET IS A BADASS CODING GOD!
:yep:

--tim
VJ WYSIWYG

[PiedPiper]

Esotic, nice work on finding that VC7 ---> VC6 tool ;)
It's a pity i went through the rigmoral of getting a copy and instalkling VC7 first.

Anyway it's great to see that your working on the Midi functionality tim
- is the midi stuff your doing specific to the DM2?
i assume it's not, and that it can be generalised to any midi device?
currently i am bit confused because you mentioned midi-yoke? which i am unfamiliar with.

Good work on discovering the different modes
normal/advanced/expert
Do you have any idea on the differences between them?

hoepfully i will have some spare time this weekend to have a good examinsation of the codebase.
thats if the demons let me out of hell for a while.
mmmmm DOOM3 mmmmmmm

back to the subject.....
good work all;)

[tdeagan]

If you hold down SHIFT and then push:
m , . /
you select the speed of the cross-fade (m slow, / fast)

--Tim
VJ WYSIWYG

[Esotic]

I would personally like TZT to become more configurable. I hardly ever use any of the crossfades, except for maybe the alpha fade. Wouldn't it be great if you could specify which fades (out of say, 20) were "spawned" by the m , . / keys? Vegas has some nice fade styles (like a difference fade) that I/we could requisition/code.

I could even see making the entire keyboard setup configurable. Like, I never use the number keys for thier intended purpose, and would rather use them to save program settings (like j,k.l.;) or something.

And MIDI offers up a level of granular control for modulating effects parameters not previously available. I.E. 128 discrete levels as opposed to 11. It would be way cool if we could take advantage of that. For some effects it would make more sense than others.

And yes, I second Tim, Triplet is the fucking man.

Super Turbo Turkey Puncher,

-Esotic

[unfold]

It always struck me as a shame that TZT can fade between busses, but it doesn't allow a permanent mix between the two.

The discovery that the length of the fade can be changed is allready great, but it would be even better if it could just be done 100% manually so you can get the speed you want (maybe with a midi-slider) .

[Esotic]

Have no fear... I've already been pondering ways to mix the two busses together. :)

-Esotic

[Esotic]

Some info about x86 registers.

http://www.mindsec.com/files/x86regs.html

[tdeagan]

I've built up so much material for OpenTZT that I put it all on a webpage (It'll go to SourceForge when ready.)

http://wysiwygvideo.com/opentzt.html

Non-debug build of OpenTZT to be posted as soon as the build finishes!

--Tim
VJ WYSIWYG

[tdeagan]

Geez, another post from me.

I've spent the evening (gigless:( ) getting a decent DM2 config setup for OpenTZT.

It's painfully clear to me that the MIDI functionality needs to expand. The good news ids that it's really really easy in the code. PLAY_OP.CPP holds all the MIDI translation and adding translating NoteOn messages into any of the predefined keys in play_mode.h should be cheeze-whiz.

You can force pretty much any keystroke via:
KEYPUSH(DIK_RSHIFT);
KEYPUSH(FADER_KEY[12]);
etc.

This would allow for doing bank switching, hitting speeds that aren't available via the 0-127 conversion to speeds (where every inc adds .096 increase in speed,) and other cool key combos.

This is coding even I can do, I don't want us to start a coding free-for-all, but I might be forced to enhance this teeney piece :pirate: this weekend.

By the way, there is a non-debug build of OpenTZT and my first decent shot at a DM2 config up at http://wysiwygvideo.com/opentzt.html

--Tim
VJ WYSIWYG

[tdeagan]

Because I was too lame to set my clips up with enough keyframes.

I've got my Behringer LC2412 DMX control desk, which outputs MIDI controlling OpenTZT now. It's very cool in many ways, but scratching by varying speed results in crappy reverse video, probably because I encoded with some lame keyframe rate (wmv9 uses one every 8 seconds, once I figgered this out I fixed it, but I've got a few clips that I typically don't run backerds so it's painfully clear to me now as I try scratching them.)

God bless esotic for covering up my lameness with his code. Stashing the frames in memory is a valuable fig leaf for my encoding exposure.

--Tim
VJ WYSIWYG

[Esotic]

It would probably be easy enough to add constant buffering to TZT for the purpose of enabling more effective scratching.

So I've got TZT loaded into VC++6, but I'm getting an error:

error C2065: 'lplpPitchTable' : undeclared identifier

At this point I'm not even sure where that declaration would go. Anybody got any ideas? Maybe I'll get my C++ guru buddy to swing by some today to help me out with this.

Or maybe I'll just go back to playing Doom 3. :)

-Esotic

[tdeagan]

Hmmm. It's a private declaration in the
CDirectDrawSurface : CRefCounter class in DIRECTX.H

I'll ask my buddy who compiled it under .NET (and is working to get a v6 project working)

[beatsurfers]

hi tim/WYSIWYG

could you please post the tzt.ini settings for midi support? is there any possibility to see if tzt is in advanced mode? i did this serial thing but i can't get midi to work.

i'm working with the qxygen 8 by midiman with midi-ox. it might be usefull to post a desription of midi setup.

tzt with midi and a native 640x480 support would be fantastic...i will start coding next week. also have started a tzt manager which helps you to setup the material (sorting and saving presets) for tzt.

take care and i really appreciate your work,...
tim, keep on going...

take care,
jENS

www.beatsurfers.com

[MoRpH]

Hmmm it seems my project registration for OpenTZT @ sourceforge.net was rejected, I have sent a request asking why..... but most of the stuff on there seems sooo unnessesarily confusing, might be worth grabbing a domain for ourselves and just setting up a forum and stuff.....

I'm more interested in getting the program out there and improved rather than messing around jumping through hoops for a bunch of nerds @ sourceforge.

I'm also VERY busy @ the momment and don't have much time over the next couple of weeks and I'd rather not hold everyone up.

Ideas folks? anyone got good hosting/cheap domain access?

[beatsurfers]

ok i got it...i simply copied your ini from the source files and the serial subdir in the sysdata folder. and... midi works!

so i checked the code and figured out a midi based mixing between busses.

the message has to be:

status = b0 (ctrl change)

33:xx mixing value (NOTE 33 is decimal not hex!!! - should be obvious anyway)


cheers,
jENS

www.beatsurfers.com

[tdeagan]

hmmm,
Glad you could get it working!! :)

Sorry, I should have posted the INI and been explicit that the MIDI values I was listing were in HEX (I do a lot of microcrontroller programming, hex is oddly comforting (it's a bit toggling thing), it seemed like a good idea at the time, the source uses mixed Hex and Dec values :rolleyes: , so I got confused a couple of times.)

With the Mixer value in the INI set to 2 (the only one that works for me,) I can get the EDIT and PLAY focus to swap, but not 'mix' (xfade.) I dearly want to midi xfade.

Did you get some response to mixing values other than 00 and 7F (0 & 127) sent via MIDI control channel 0x21 (33 decimal) ?

[sortedmedia]

How much bandwidth do you reckon you'll need ?

Can offer some hosting space here if someone wants to register the domain,

can offer 20 gigs bandwidth and 500 megs space, should be alright if downloads are restricted to members I guess.

Set up a nuke site and BB overnight with member access.

what you think ?

Steve

can be emailed steve@sortedmedia.net

[MoRpH]

No need I got the Sourceforge account sorted.

OK folks head over to https://sourceforge.net/projects/opentzt/

[Esotic]

Hey, MoRpH, can you add Tim and I as developers?

My sourceforge name is Esotic (of course).

Rock On,

-Esotic

[MoRpH]

done.... haven't added tim as I don't know his SF username

[beatsurfers]

hi tim,

well i did send values (byte2) from 0 to 127 (channel 1, byte1 33) and i got what the code is promising: a descent well controlled xfade (actually something i really missed). if you read the source caode (play_op) you'll see that the value is interpreted as the mixing amount between the two busses. lpSci->SetMixValue(value*8+value/16);

didn't it work for you? it definately should work and it rocks!!!

cheers,
jENS

www.beatsurfers.com

btw: i want to code some more composition save slots (up to 128) as i find it nice to save compositions that you can recall and start playing around....tell me what you guys think of that.
tim - do you know why there's this weird piece of code:
IsMixerEnable=(IsMixerEnable & 0x2)+1; (haven't checked what tzt is doing with this information....but we should know what's going on....might be surprising...

[Esotic]

In regards to saving composition slots...

The code should(?) be adjusted to remember the effects and clips by name instead of position when recalling compositions.

It's good to know others are looking at the code as well. :)

-Esotic

[MoRpH]

Guys can we please move the convo over to the sourceforge openTZT forum, thanks.

[Esotic]

and about teh error C2065: 'lplpPitchTable' : undeclared identifie

A line continuation character at the end of a comment had caused the declaration to go AWOL. I think Tim had mentioned that and the warning said somethign too, but it just took me awhile to work that out.

I can't wait for the code to be checked into Sourceforge. :)

-Esotic

[Esotic]

There's something magical about the first time you get a program to compile. :D

I got TZT compiling under VC++6 (with bunches of help from the aforementioned translation tools).

Nothing but good things,

-Esotic

[PiedPiper]

Good work on the sourceforge account morph!

I've just created myself a sourceforge userid.

It would be great if we could get the most recent version of the code up there too.

Esotic, maybe you could add your working vc6 project file - so that other with vc6 can access the project ;)

[MoRpH]

Tim, Esotic.... I know you guys will be the solid code guys for this project but I'm HELLA pushed for time here @ the moment, do you think you guys might be able to migrate the current opentzt/tzt threads (well cut and paste) over to the sourceforge forums. Let me know when they are done and I'll close the threads here on VJF.

[tdeagan]

Hee Hee! I get to be described as a 'solid code guy' alongside esotic :lol:

Ah, my plot for world domination progresses....

Gotta take my licks early, before you all figure out that I'm useless with the C++ programming... I'm a script hacker with some C under my belt. I say this up front for fear I will wake up with people thinking I'm gonna code an effect or something :lol:

Every time I fire up TZT I think to myself, 'damn, triplet and esotic kicked ass.' So, I come out of the closet to you all, I am not a programmer, I'm a... software development manager (there, I said it.) So as any programmer will tell you, I am useless :rolleyes:

Actually I can be of some use, specifically to do things like port forums, think of things for programmers to do, ask them when it will be done, write documents, load cvs repositories, etc. :) (hell, if I'm lucky we'll think of something needed in PowerPoint :eek: )

I'll start moving forums, the files from my website and everything here this week. These are good ways for me to be useful.

:yep:

[tdeagan]

THIS THREAD HAS BEEN ARCHIVED AT
http://sourceforge.net/docman/index.php?group_id=115702

Please go to the OpenTZT sourceforge project and either start a new forum ( http://sourceforge.net/forum/?group_id=115702 ) or use the welcome topic (http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=1124975&forum_id=398133 )


Thanks!!!