PatchBox v0.3 - Winamp AVS support

[VJbigfug]

The third release today (!) brings the ability to transfer output from Winamp's AVS into PatchBox

You'll need to add the PatchBox/Send node to the end of each preset you want to view in the AVS editor

http://www.patchbox.net

Best wishes,

Alex

[many2]

Groundbreaking news !
OMG !

[Rovastar]

Congrats never VJ again.

[KillingFrenzy]

Why the sour grapes, Rovastar?
I thought you wanted visuals in general to be more audio-responsive.
Having AVS as a tool in a kit instead of a standalone piece of eyecandy makes it possible to creating something that's both audioresponsive and integrated with other content.

[sleepytom]

yeh this is a great development - any way to intergrate avs into a more live performance oriantated app than winamp is a cool thing.

what i'd really like to see is a freeframe source plugin that hosted and ran AVS presets (listening to the windows mixer or line input for audio responce)

there is a huge community of avs artists - it would be great to be able to use their work in all the freeframe host apps. (with permission of course)

freeframe could be a great bridge between the somewhat disperate worlds of VJing and Visulizations

[Rovastar]

I do want visuals to be more responsive but I want the VJ's to make them. Lazyness is not an excuse.

[murk]

Rovastar, please explain yourself. You are not making any sense.

[eXhale]

Originally posted by Rovastar
I do want visuals to be more responsive but I want the VJ's to make them. Lazyness is not an excuse. When you realize that "wanting" is not enough to make it happen, and that others have free-will too, maybe you'll stop whining about changes and use that energy for more creative things.

[Rovastar]

Often VJ's complain about using another VJ's/video artist work.

This is commonplace here why is this any different?

[sleepytom]

you assume that all avs artist don't like there work being shown in public - in actual fact i have a large collection of avs presets that have been given to me by people specifically because they wanted me to play them in clubs - untill now i haven't played them because of the hassel of having to switch to winamp and adjust scanconverters etc etc - by having them available through freeframe i can use them in loads of diffrent vjing apps.

also say your an avs artist who also vjs with resolume - would it not be handy to be able to combine your avs with your resolume without having to use a vision mixer or capture card?

[eXhale]

Don't release your plugins/presets if you don't want others to use them...

[Rovastar]

Permission is all cool. I have never had a problem with that. Lack of creativity and passing of others work as your own is.

I am not even going to bother addressing X's comment.

[MoRpH]

Bigfug, what can I say mate...... YOU ARE THE MAN :)

[murk]

Originally posted by Rovastar
Permission is all cool. I have never had a problem with that. Lack of creativity and passing of others work as your own is.

I am not even going to bother addressing X's comment.

Why are you hijacking this thread? This thread has nothing to do with stealing others work, it is about streaming content from WinAmp to other programs.

[klumsy]

rova,if people didn't want their content showed, why would they release it as a publically aviable preset? Anyhow i agree that just remixing other peoples work in lame.. but really each is judged accordingly. i'd do that to a point, depending on my time avaiable, but i wouldn't make out it was all my own stuff either, as an individual you can only feel pride about your work as to what is actually yours, maybe if you are 'ripping' other peoples content, you might fool others, but you can never fool yourself..
i personally may use other peoples 'content' or presets or whatever for fun parties or whatever, or to see different combinations of cool things, but never would use them for something published, like a DVD or art exibition etc. as a coder we use other peoples content all the time, everytime we use an API whether a simple compression, directX,windows file functions etc. i personally don't have time to reinvent every wheel, but will give credit where credit is due, and BIGFUG has due credit here, so lets give credit where credit is due rather than being party poopers.

but patchbox for AVS is much much more than just that.. how i will use it, will be making very light avs presets that just take advantage of avs's sound analysis (actually later versions of patchbox will stream the sound analysis data directly :), and probably make presets of my own that are quick and easy to do in AVS rather than another program..

however patchbox is much much more than just an AVS input.. it allows you to combine different video streams from and into many different vj programs in various combinations, giving power and flexibility.

[asterix]

I make / remix / code cut any avs I've used in the past - most presets take up to three hours to tweak.
People who play straight avs packs might as well be pushing play on a dvd. In which case I have little respect for thier vjing abilities.

[dongbamage]

Rova Knows this he's just being grumpy! Any one with any skillz is not gonna be merely ripping others content...

Yeah its shit when ppl steal u're work and call it there own, but this allows more than that, it allows a progression of the original piece (every one knows that art is an evolution, this just might help the process)

Nice one BigFug!

[asterix]

I know the avs community (generally speaking) doesn't really give a shit about using thier content. As long as you don't put it into your own pack and distribute. Quirky bastards!

Im going to play with patch box tonight. I've been looking for a way I can use all my old avs stuff again. Its truly nice to have the music responsiveness

[KillingFrenzy]

One of the first things I did was start playing with AVS and made about 10 (not very good) presets, something I haven't done for a very long time. If I really start using it for shows, I'll make some better ones. It's like saying that having a copy of Photoshop means you'll just load other people's JPEGS and show them off.

One thing I'm unsure about is the Nullsoft License agreement. I can't find anything in there about public performance of video. There's some business about the Mp3Pro encoder and final output licensing... but that's it. I suppose buying WinampPro would be a start, which I was thinking about doing anyway.

But other than that, there's really nothing that says you can't use AVS for public performance. Maybe I'm missing something.

[BrainStove]

Originally posted by klumsy
you might fool others, but you can never fool yourself..

Rova, stamp & tattoo that quote on your forehead mate, this will save you a ton of wasted bile.

I even would go further expanding on Klumsy quote:

"There is no worse asshole than those who Think or are Convinced themselves that they are able to fool others."

Sooner or Later someone will bring their lame mask out/off and better you?ll be ready to ROTFLOLing your ass off in their face way noisily. ;)

Ohh, almost forgot.... VJbigfug, have you already seen MEIMI? :D

[KillingFrenzy]

I have seen alot of good visualizations out there that involve alot of higher math then I'm capable of, and if somebody does come up with a set with licensing included, I'd be happy to pay for and use them if I can integrate them into existent software.
I'm throwing your comments back at you Rovastar, because you're obviously one of the people who has very strong opinions about direct audiovisualization softs, and I'm curious where you're coming from. If you're frustrated about people ripping off other people, then maybe we should figure out a way to get them some compensation. If you're worried about people just being generally lazy about creating their own work... well, that's something that supercedes just this particular issue.

[charlielangridge]

You gotta remeber people the old pleasure / pain analogy -

Whenever people are happy about something

Rova is Grumpy

This is the way of the universe. We should have a day when everybody else is grumpy, so rova can be happy

[VJamm]

erm, anyone interested in taking this thread back to the patchbox? ... which looks to me like it's gonna be an fantastic new development.

Nice one again Alex

me and tom had a bash with it last night in VJamm and Visual Jockey, and we could only get distorted video out, looked like a wrong framesizes or maybe 24/32bit problem to me.

anyone got any tips? or reports of it working in a certain situation?

we were trying:
AVS -> VJamm
and
AVS -> Visual Jockey
on the same machine

Russell

[elbows]

Congratulations on this marvelous development, I'll definately press the donate button sometime this weekend.

So far Ive had it working over 100Mbit LAN from visualJockey on one pc to visualjockey demo on another pc. Works, I need to spend some hours working out optimal codec etc, but its a great start :)

I think there is definately some sort of resolution issue, when in preview mode (320x240) on both visualJockeys it works fine, but I get strange things happening when I go fullscreen, but again I need to spend more tiem testing to give a detailed report.

Tried briefly to get it working over the internet yesterday but failed, possibly it was timing out because the route over the net was a bit slow, will try again another day.

[elbows]

Although you were probably asking for anybody who got AVS working, so my answer above is offtopic, sorry about that, I plan to try AVS shortly, will report. Have you tried Vjamm->visjockey or vice versa?

[neoteo]

we always go to this point of where is the line of credit ... hardware maker ? software maker ? camara man ? Vj ? God ?
all in one ? why not ... each one does what he knows and keeps learning as he can ...
talking saying nothing , what was the topic?
ahh , for me its all part of evolution , if this makes people lazy in some tasks , that will give them time to be performing in other tasks ... what counts is whats coming out and the influence you can make to whats coming out live ... IMO

[Rovastar]

I look at it in a very different I know many VJ's that have used AVS type stuff. (5% of tehm have never made a AVS scene or contrubte to the scene in any way, shape or form. Will this see an uptake in VJ's writing AVS? I doubt it will it see an increase in VJ's that are too lazy to make more content and use others as they see it as free I think so. As normal it is it is abused again. SO VJ's go create stop takinga free ride.

As for making and releasing it for other to use at home non commerically. Yes you VJ's are commercal.

MAybe I yet again respect the authors too much. Aftewr all they own the IP.

Should music label allow the music riped as tehy release it.

Should films allow copies as they release it.

Should software give the OK to crackers as tehyh relase it.

Should a girl in a short skirt on a friday night....oh nevermind

[neoteo]

of corse they shouldnt

i dont mean that at all .. what i mean , is , that before computers you vjed with vcrs , and before winamp , there were lot less vjs there are today , its geting easyer and easyer , but that doesnt make all vjs artists nor good vjs ...

its what i mean ... IF YOU ARE GOOD , you can use old school way of going it , or you can use top technology way of doing it , and this last one includes all the virtual help you can get .. and the 2 ways, do a show no one else can do ...

[KillingFrenzy]

If you're using visualJockey, you'll want to put a "smooth" node under the freeframe host. Then, play with the values of the output resolution until it looks right. Now, when you go to fullscreen, it will come out right. I'd look for something similar in VJAMM that constrains the aspect ratio or rescales the final output of a node.
In my case, I was running at 640x480 in fullscreen and outputting at "best quality" I had to set the smooth node to 320x240. or I would get 2 1 quarter screen versions at the bottom of the screen. If you enter a value for smooth that is really different then the original aspect of AVS, it does do crazy things. I can see this really messing up a PAL aspect ratio user.

[sleepytom]

had an email from alex who says there are some bugs re framesize and bitdepth in 0.3 he recons they'll be fixed in 0.4 so its looking good :)

[VJbigfug]

Originally posted by sleepytom
had an email from alex who says there are some bugs re framesize and bitdepth in 0.3 he recons they'll be fixed in 0.4 so its looking good :)

Indeed. I hadn't expected take up to be quite so rapid, so hadn't smoothed all the corners off. The latest version does indeed handle conversion of any resolution and bitdepth nicely.

There is also the option to 'stream' or 'transmit':

- stream compresses the video, as it does by default now

- transmit copies the video direct with no loss of quality

There will also be an 'alias' feature which may not make much sense to anyone else yet, but will be a key part in PatchBox's future functionality :)

Best wishes,

Alex

[VJbigfug]

Originally posted by elbows
Works, I need to spend some hours working out optimal codec etc, but its a great start :)

I personally favour the PicVideo MJPEG codec, which, while not free, is great in the quality/speed department. I use it exclusively for all my VJ stuff

Tried briefly to get it working over the internet yesterday but failed, possibly it was timing out because the route over the net was a bit slow, will try again another day. [/B]

I haven't yet done much testing over the net but have some ideas to really open up the possibilities in remote performance while still keeping sync with the music...

Best wishes,

Alex

[Rovastar]

LOL

[VJamm]

At the moment you control the framesize that VJamm run's up the FreeFrame plugin at by loading clips of different framesizes into the clip slot that you load the plug on.

Sounds like this won't be a problem in patchbox0.4 anyway.

We're always considering doing more work on FreeFrame source plugin support - the big fug development might be the trigger - I've already done some of the work to run up multiple live preview windows so we could try using the VJamm 2.5x as a master GL compositor between different VJ softs in a visual band.

Russell