Planning the proper A/V set

[akira_k]

We've been signed up for a big party in a month or so, that will have 3 big main live acts. Now I told the promoters that being that these are live groups and not some DJ playing whatever he wants, we should do the proper thing and talk beforehand, with the artists, about doing visuals that go perfectly with their audio set.

The promoters all thought it was a great idea and said they would get into it. However I'm kind of worried that it might all get thrashed by them.

Imagine the local promoters, contacting the agents/promoters of the bands, which ask the artists. Regardless of what the foreign agents do, which I cannot guess, more than probably the local promoters will want to modify what has been told to them and insert their "input" into it.

What I'd like to do is to have a direct link with the artists and do what they feel would be better, and not have any of these muppets mixing in their input which they think is correct. Also imagine the bother of us asking the local promoter,who asks agent, who asks artist, and then back :P It would of destroy the synergy I want to generate in teh set.

Would you think it's not ethic for me to "skip" the promoters and try contacting the artists directly? They all have websites and who knows, maybe a mail saying who we are and what we'll do with them can start things up in the right way. Obviously as soon as I make contact i would tell the promoter. another way is to tell the promoters I want a direct link with the artists. This event is done by two of the biggest event organizers around here, and one group is more trusting about our abilities, while the others always want to chip in just to say "I had to do with that", they like taking credit for what they haven't done. So I suppose the "cool" promoters would OK this request, while the others wouldn't.

So what do you think would be the best route? Any help will be greatly apreciated!!!

[cat]

I think its perfectly resonable to contact them directly, In fact I think that it would be good manners! It dosent really have a lot to do with the promoters, if the sound crew needed to discuss an unusual set up you can be sure they would get in touch with the artists.

[sleepytom]

i'd ask your local promoter to get you a contact email for the artists so you can discuss their requirements - this way the promoter has something to do and won't feel you've bypassed him

if he doesn't give you a direct contact and continues to try and play the middleman role then i would contact the artist directlly and tell the promoter that you've been chatting to the artists and have got all these great ideas together (hopefully you can be enthusiastic about the ideas enough that he won't realise that you have gone over his head)

[seex]

Going round the promotors, is considered a bad biusnies habits, i wuld imagine that the same promotor wuld hire someone else the next time. It is the promotor who shuld take responsibility for all the acts, so he shuld be blamed if your work was not what the band expected to see and not you.

I dont recomend you stick out and take responsibility for something that is out of your control since its the promotors job to cordinate such acts, he hired youu and he shuld defnd you and your act. I wuld ask the promotor to get me the programe in advance with all the songs that will be performed (duration of the songs and the songs on some digital media like mp3) or at least get one cd of each band, so you culd get a feel for their music.

I imagine that you culd hit some wals trying to suit everyones needs, altough yure trying to do the best visuals it doesent mean that everyone will like them. This is where the promotor comes in good since he is the one who selected you becouse of the nature of your work. I dont see anything wrong with the promotor being the midle man, thats the job of a promotor, and if you take that on you shuld get payed for doing that responsibilty.

[mondo]

i disagree seex

artists are usually more than happy to chat to other artists directly and bypass the promoters anyday in my experience

though taking sleepy tom's route is the first correct step

[seex]

Bypassing the promotor is soetimes a good idea, to spped up the comunication. Im not thalking about that, actualy im shure that all of the bands wuld love to give directions on how they want the visuals to look for their show, but is this realy the right path. I mean there is a lot of compromise involved to satisfy the need of everyone, and is this realy what a preepepaired av act is. Its great to work with one band and make visuals ecpecialy for their show, but i think that involves seeing them perform, not only chatting with them. Visual language is often missinterpreted when translated in to words, so dissapointment can occure, than the promotor shuld be adressed.

In this case the best thing is to get a feel of the music and possibly a playlist with songs, and do the visuals alone like you know best. Trugh words you can be missleaded and the bands culd get the wrong impression.

Look at it from this perspective, if you ask your promotor to give you direct contact to arange te visuals than any blame for the visuals not being what someone imagined will go on you. And the promotor can say you didnt do your job, i wont hire you again or ill cut your fee. While on the other hand you can get a feel of the music or possibly the whole play list and at the moment thats the best way.

I did something similar, and it came out that there was no common line to the visuals becouse the bands were not interested what are the visuals before and after their performance and if what they want fits in.

I think you will loose a lot of creative freedom, you are the only one who has an overview of the whole visual show.

[Rovastar]

Originally posted by mondo
i disagree seex

artists are usually more than happy to chat to other artists directly and bypass the promoters anyday in my experience

though taking sleepy tom's route is the first correct step

YEah Tom way is what I would do first. Feed the promoters ego. :)

[seex]

yeah, maybe then you can ask the band to play a bit up tempo cus it suits your visuals.

if yure seling out guys make shure you get a fat fee.

[akira_k]

Ok, I think something I wrote above has been misinterpreted, I re-read it and had the same impression. I am not meaning to do whatever the band wants like if I was a "vj monkey", fulfilling their desire and only that. I just want to talk to them about their show, what will they be playing or not, what stuff they like and what not, etc. The idea of a direct contact with the other artists is to make a SYNERGIC bond. Likewise we would tell them what we like or not to do, what our ideas are, and so on. In no case this was meant as a situation of "Tell me exactly what you want in the screens and we will do it", in the same way I wouldn't go like "can you play that bit a little longer so it goes better iwth my visuals?".

The problem here is this particular promoter. He likes so much to stick his head in and then take credit for everything. So even the crappiest ideas, he wants them fulfilled. This means we'll have to do a show which will be whatever and could have been done with any monkey DJ they chucked at us, which is NOT the idea.

I want to do this one right. Many times I have had to modify shit to this guy's request just because he feeled like so, when I actually thought and told him it was crap. (like "you want this? ok look". and he was happy with the shitty outcome, if only because his "wish" has been fulfilled) As I said, in this joint of promoters, a group trusts completely in what we do (they stand up for us), and the other half (the one I'm bitching about) wants us to do only what they want to. It's one of these guys that you want to tell them "why are you hiring me? Why don't you do it yourself?". They feel powerful when they tell people exactly what to do, and people do it because they need the cash. Isn't THAT sellout? I do NOT want to sellout. All I want is to have a chit-chatty with the artists to see what we might be able to do -together-, and not hearing blindly what they want and fulfilling their requests like if we were robots.

[LEVLHED]

I would have no problem bypassing the jerk-promoter and going right to the artists. the promoter doesn't even have to know

fukem!

[seex]

What i understand from your dilema is theat you want to exclude one of the promotors (the egocentric) by contacting the artists direcly ant thus making a proper av act and talking to creative people ustead of a producer. This sounds logical and im not supporting the promotor that pusing his ideas and i know where yure coming from.

But how do you know that the artists on the other side are not just as egocenterd, you might run into even worse situations with three bands. You must know that in the creative process there must be colaboration from both sides. So my point is that in order to synerge you must become someones monkey a litle bit, or else dont involve him. We cant expect a person not to have an oppinion if we invited him to influence or colaborate in our work with his ideas and views.

I dont know what is your relation to these bands, but id be cosius with who i decide to colaborate. But i guess its a better option to working with that promotor.

About him taking credit, i got no problem with that, it was his idea to include you in the show, why shuldnt he take credit if he made a good selection and eventualy even you will benefit from him getting more jobs and calling you to come and vj.

There is no easy way out of this one, what i do is charge duble for custom made visuals. Either you leave it all up to me or we do it together and i will walue youre oppinion.

[akira_k]

Originally posted by seex
So my point is that in order to synerge you must become someones monkey a litle bit.I think that synergy is not this kind of situation, synergy is win-win and in such a case no one has to become anyone's monkey, otherwise it's a standard win-lose situation. You are right that these artists might want to get all over it and be more demanding than the promoter, however I elieve that if communicated correctly this shouldn't happen. Would they change what they play if the promoters tell them to? Why would I, then? I think they would understand.
About him taking credit, i got no problem with that, it was his idea to include you in the show, why shuldnt he take credit if he made a good selectionI don't like people who take credit for what they haven't done. It's the Malcom McLaren thing here, that kind of "takeover". Like "I 'invented' this guy", or him taking credit for the images WE shoot, like if he had ANYTHING to do with the process. He wants to go like "See that thing on the screens? That was my idea".

All good points, we'll see what comes up. What I'm trying to do now is negotiate with the cooler promoters, I wouldn't mind making a link through them because I *know* they wouldn't stick their heads into the process.

[seex]

Colaboration in a artistic sense can be a win win situation only if there is respect betwene the creative minds involved, and im shure there is a way to colaborate with the bands (or wit anyone) that will prove worthy, but i want to know the person before going this way, its your risk. being someones monkey is ok if he is youre monkey too. But its a hars term.... and for now i only have this relation with my girlfrend.

For taking credit, you must understand that it was that promotor who gave you the job and hes probably paying you, so he is renting youre skils and for the show its expected of you to perform within your standards. So why not say i chose this guy to do the visuals becouse he is good, and taking credit for that decission? Hey thats his job and if he does it well he can be proud of that.

Who will believe him if he says: im doing the visuals while hes standing in front of the stage and youre performing, so i dubt thats the case.

[akira_k]

Originally posted by seex
and for now i only have this relation with my girlfrend. :D
So why not say i chose this guy to do the visuals becouse he is good, and taking credit for that decission? is not THAT, he sure can baffle around as much as he wants about that, but he does like to take credit for the content we did, for example. That is wrong.

[seex]

The worst kind of carcter (he probably believes himself), but probably the only ones who actualy believe him are a similar sort, so dont wory your reputation is unharmed in the eyes of those who observe and think, and thats whats important IMO.