Final Scratch - The next step?

[charlielangridge]

Whilst at Plasa, London, last week i was having a chat with one of the guys from Stanton about the new Final Scratch product. For those who don't know the about it, Final Scratch uses two 12" records with an encoded time format on them to control music software and therefore virtually overlay mp3/wav files to the records. This gives the effect of storing all of your songs on a pc and needing to take only 2 records to a gig. (Sorry if i explained that really badly!).

What i was thinking was that this system may be exploited to play video's as opposed to mp3/wav filesand therefore, litteraly, scratch videos. We came up with the idea of sampling SMPTE code as a wav file and scratching that whilst relaying it to some form of video device. I was really just looking for help from anybody on the practical logistics of this, and whether or not it is viable!

Charlie Langridge

[Meierhans]

I don`t know much about it, but i like this idea. Would be interesting to know if you can do this with standard hardware (using stereo line input of soundcard for scratch recognicion) with acceptable latency.
I think anybody who can scratch (unlike me ;) ) would love it to see a video hooked to his turntable.

[robotfunk]

Do you know the weight of a Technics turntable?
I'd much rather buy that Mixman controller MoRpH told about the other day and use that for video scratching. Cheaper and lighter and more easily implementable. Also scratching w/o audio feedback (ie hearing what you are doing) is twice as hard

[sleepytom]

its actually really easy to do this - playing back a wav and an avi is allmost the same so there is no reason why you couldn't make a video version of final scratch (or the citronic system thats allmost exactly the same) however i seriosly doubt that anyone will both with this as the audio / dj bods that have developed the thechnology probably don't see the point and most VJs don't own a technics / can't scratch.

oh it has of course allready been done - coldcut have the "dextractor" controller for AV scratching - its a lot less refined than final scratch but it kind of works for controling "AV Scratch" the only true audio visual scratching program (made by camart - free when you buy VJamm Pro)

Also scratching w/o audio feedback (ie hearing what you are doing) is twice as hard umm theres no point using a system like this for scratching silent video - video is 25 fps so there is absolutly no advantage to using a deck to scratch it when compared to say a jog shuttel - you'll only see the bennifits of a high resolution controler like this when you use audio


http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2002/09/19/technology/19JOCK.2,0.jpg - Coldcuts Dextracktor

[charlielangridge]

I was thinking more of the use of the "Hexstatic"s of the world, and DJs who want to add video to a set. With many uk clubs having 1210's anyway, it would be a 30 sec job to drop in the final scratch unit. Many guys i know have the ability to scratch, so this would be an added bonus, especially for hip-hop where they could drop in video samples such as somebody speaking. It sorta adds another aspect to the night.

[MoRpH]

Personally I would like to see the mixman unit described above used for all the reason jilt said, however I see a role for a technics based version aswell for AV performers if they HAVE to have vinyl, me I'll just have AVIs with sound on my laptop and a DM2 :)

[syzygy]

DJ Craze used final scratch in his collaboration with Plus One at a gig I did visuals for. My stuff was right alongside the decks so I got a great view of the tech in action.

I have to say, final scratch looks (and sounds) amazining. Craze and Plus One did a 90-minute scatched-up drum and bass set (they were building drum and bass live from the component parts) followed by a more traditional DMC style scratching demo. Throughout, the final scratch deck sounded exactly the same as the other three. I'm sure the crowd didn't realise there was anything but vinyl there.

Anyway... about using final scratch for visuals. I agree that there's not much point using this just to scratch 25 fps video - we scatch video pretty effectively with a midi slider using midivids scratch effect and I don't think more resolution would help.

Where a final scratch deck would come in would be in playing a long video sequence and being able to play - pull back - play a bit more - pull back - stop - pullback - play (and so on and so on...)Using a midi controller does not give the ability to let the video play on and push it forwards or backwards like you can with a deck. You could also use the pitch control on the deck to change the speed.

The other thing a deck would be good for is beat matching. A DJ who can beatmatch tunes would, I expect, find it very easy to beatmatch a video clip (that has been designed around the same time signiture) to the music. You could do a really cool AV set by creating a video track for each audio track and beatmatching both simultaneously.

Incidentally, a VJ I have worked with in London came up with a great low-tech way to use a deck for video scratching. He attached a mouse to the tone arm of a clapped out deck so that the mouse ball was rotated by the slipmat moving underneath it. He programmed his software to loop through the clips based on the movement of the ball. You couldn't do anyting too violent with it, but it was certainly cool to play with.

SyZyGy

[MoRpH]

I have also worked with craze and richie hawtin both using final scratch and was VERY impressed but I really don't think its the wat for video only VJs to go, don't we get mixed up with the DJ enough??? :p

[unjulation]

ever tried loop back with ano;og camra in relation with vid projector??
its always got to be a smile

[funksoftware]

no, AV scratch is not the only one out there doing true audio visual skratching... take a look at ejenterprises.tv they are doing it all live all the highest res. you could ever want for audio and video for control on your turntable, apply the same tactile abilities you have on a turntable already to whatever other mediums you want... way more than just mp3's ... they definitely have finalscratch beat easier setup, more applications... and they have mixman beat too, cuz this can again accomplish so much more. this actually is an adaption for your turntable you already have, so it isn't a whole new deck to lug around. and they will be on the market in january !!!

[LEVLHED]

Originally posted by funksoftware
for your turntable you already have

yeah, right...

[MoRpH]

Hahahaha soooooo true LEV, thats why I'm going for the DM2

[genoflex]

hum just a remark : the 2nd "coldcut" photo above is not Coldcut at all, its from derivative Touch software during the "Rush" band tour.... but definitively some kind of "VJ hero" picture... lol

[MoRpH]

rush = *yawn*
touch = overpriced
picture = *shrug*

[disassembler]

Ha. Quicktime player. Click on the backarrow with mouse Then let go. It's not that deep. Granted it doesn't quit make a vinyl sound but I'm sure its not that hard to add that feature. If your a programming pimp. VJamm/VDMX/Resolume all play sound backward/forward. Shit one could just use video editing software to do a show, it's just a filter/plugin that needs to be developed that simulates the scratchsound. Finalscratch has that ability. Can't imagine it being that hard to add video control. RCfuse has live mic playback control. Just doesn't have the sound.

I've been taking apart VCRs and moving VHS tape back and forth on the head. Its got great sound and video playback.

[robotfunk]

It looks like I'm getting a beta version of the EJenterprises MIDI turntable retrofit. Apparently they already have it working with flowmotion :) Looking forward to playing with that and I will let you know the result. Have been trying to get in contact with the people who made Final Scratch for years and didnt manage to get a reply once even though we are in the same city. AFAIK final scratch is linux only (not really mentioned on the website but thats the '500+ mb for OS' in the system requirement bit). I might be doing visuals for some dutch DMC scratch champions so this could be interesting.

[offbeat]

this is of real interest to me, and the final scratch/video concept has been playing on my mind for a while now..


Ive been DJing for years now, but getting into VJing has always been my ideal. Im getting there slowly, but the idea of combining the skills ive built up in Djing with Vjing is pretty darn cool.
What about "tagging" mp3s with ur visuals, and when played out, the images would mix in the same as the music - i.e your cross-fader has complete control. Gives you a whole knew media to think about when playing a set - not only the tunes audio qualities but also the imagery produced. Of course the problem is your not going to be able to produce images for every single piece of vinyl/mp3, so maybe some may of having "ready made" imagery to knock in a mix when its an un-tagged bit of music?

Having never got my hands on linux is an issue (final scratch can only be used on it) but im sure ill get over it.

[syzygy]

Originally posted by disassembler

I've been taking apart VCRs and moving VHS tape back and forth on the head. Its got great sound and video playback.

I've wondered about doing that.

What are the results like?

Dan.

[alangeering]

Originally posted by syzygy


Incidentally, a VJ I have worked with in London came up with a great low-tech way to use a deck for video scratching. He attached a mouse to the tone arm of a clapped out deck so that the mouse ball was rotated by the slipmat moving underneath it. He programmed his software to loop through the clips based on the movement of the ball. You couldn't do anyting too violent with it, but it was certainly cool to play with.

SyZyGy

Surely this would be the time to go for an optical mouse, with which you could be much more violent. :D
I think I'm going to try this one.

[krokodril]

have a short look at the germans.....

used to be obscure but now all over ebay.de(look to the mx1 review for their many names)

besides being a rs 232 and lanc and moreso controler/editor it simply talks to your pc over the com port.... unfortunately it isn't a standart in premiere and likewise programs...... but a lot cheaper then the shuttle usboverpriced thingie

some links:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3049024715&category=8341

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3048509205&category=8341

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3050045624&category=8341

sadly no rowi version at the time... this one comes with a dual port gpi controler