final cut pro projection

[sspeed]

can anyone explain why VJ's use final cut pro and or other programs to DISPLAY their work. i thought you could only us quicktime-media player, etc files on cpu?

[atomicone]

I've seen a few different crews using final cut to display their work, usually on the higher-end corporate type of show, or people who shoot/edit a lot of video, and not so much into the live mix . The main advantage is the output resolution: output via firewire at 720x480 to a dv converter or straight into a videonics mxpro.
You can also prepare many long sequences ahead of time and call them up with minimal effort. Every single video mixing program I've tried chokes on longer sequences.
Personally, I don't use this style, I would much rather use final cut to prepare content for dvd, and use that as an extra source and leave my lappy open for video mixing software.
It definitely seems more suited to pre-fab show without a lot of live interpretation/performance, but everyone has their own style.

[sspeed]

thank u - i run and design the video for a night club in sd.ca.usa

i plan on bringing in the g4 and seeing how it will mix with an edirol - canonxl-1s - dvd players, etc.

it seems like the "pro's" all use a cpu. but. i have been getting by on a live camera feed and some dvd players.....

thanks
sspeed

[vjfader]

I pity the fool who uses FinalCut or Premiere to VJ. You call yourselves VJs? I think "nocternal editors" is a much more suiting term.

[famouswhendead]

Why can't you use FCP?
DV output nice and crisp.
Pixlet on the vid output looks good too using QT.

Just don't use 1 computer...
I mean b4 you didn't use one VHS deck?

Easy to change sequences quickly.
set up key beforehand on the V4 and use it's turny snapshot knob for dif key values.

...
taz it
...

BTW a vision mixer is an editor too.

[vjrei]

Originally posted by vjfader
I pity the fool who uses FinalCut or Premiere to VJ. You call yourselves VJs? I think "nocternal editors" is a much more suiting term.

Wow, jump in to my files!

I would say, using FCP is not VJing, I mean, is the equivalent of using Powerpoint or a VCR. Just because there is not interactivity, that is a linear performance and I would not consider that VJing.

To start, we should be clear with what kind of work we do because I am so F*** tire that some one with a FCP call himself a VJ, go to a club, give a shi** performance, promoters get frustrated and then when I come with my VJ equipment (3 powerbooks at list) I get rejected because "VJs are boring and a waste of money".

I am in New York City now and the local VJs have been doing an incredible effort to destroy their industry here.

Except for Holly and Erik who are moving their butt big time.

Many of them just get a DV camera with the video they recorded that same day in the street and use a calidoscope effect in their V4... how boring! and they want to get paid $2000 a night for that?

I have seen very good jobs as well but I remember just one (from Canada) and I know there was another one too.

Back in Venezuela at list I collaborate to make VJing a must in the entertainment industry and there are other guys doing an incredible job with rock bands.

Please, be careful when you call yourself a VJ. You can call yourself a "visual artist" if you are not sure.

[akira_k]

My my Rei, as always, you are completely full of it. I don't even want to try and reply to what you wrote, because your narrow-minded brain won't listen to anything except your words, which we are supposed to set in stone like some sort of "holy bible".

Just let me say that if you think the tool/s is what makes someone a VJ or not, I ask you to stop wasting our time with your useless posts and unfounded bragging.

BTW, I suppose you don't have anything different to offer to promoters than what they are used to, otherwise they would take the plunge.

[elbows]

Actually I think people should be careful if you start to question whether someone can call themselves a VJ based on your terms.

We've learnt from discussions here that VJ means different things to different people, and last time I checked nobody here has a monopoly on truth or what any particular term may be used for.

People sure arent afraid to jump in to have a go at certain uses of technoogy without possession of all the facts. Who is to say that FCP is not being used as a good quality video feed which then goes through further processing/mixing with other sources etc in a way thats recognised as vjing and decidedly non-linear?

And Rei, I have some words of advise for you to ignore. Try blaming yourself for once, or at least not worrying about other people - even if you are not responsible for the problem, look to yourself for a solution.

If you consider your local competition to be mostly rubbish, then take advantage of it. You say that it has spoilt image of VJ in eyes of promoter, well you should find some opportunities to show them the difference between yourself and the VJs you consider worthless. In such an arena, you should shine if you are as good as your mind thinks you are.

Certainly in every non-VJing business arena Ive found myself in, shoddy competition is generally regarded as a goldmine, a neverending opportunity to win easy customer satisfaction and spout easy and believable badvertising about your competitors.

If your rant is a sign that you are being rejected a lot, I would honestly advise you to consider changing yourself and looking within for problems, rather than demanding that New Yorkers change everything to suit you. It is not easy to change ourselves, but its surely easier than changing the world. You should consider whether the promoters excuse for rejecting you was honest, whether other reasons are obvious but being avoided for the sake of your own feelings etc.

Im not in New York and I have no earthly idea how good you or your competitors are. Certainly Ive seen nothing from you that impressed me, and your superior attitude towards many other humans on these forums means Id never employ you anyway simply because of the attitude problem.

A good guide to what the reality of the situation is will be how the opposition react to you. If over an extended period of time you are ignored or treated as a bit of a joke, then its safe to say you need to have a rethink about reality. If on the other hand you are treated as a genuine threat and start to ruffle feathers due to the sheer quality of your performances, then you are ok.

The world will tolerate and sometimes admire such an ego if there is actual talent attached to it, but if not then its a pretty short street to bitter mediocrity and failure, requiring ever increasing amounts of denial in order to sustain the belief that all faults are external, that of others, stupid talentless ugly people, and never never never anything to do with the perfect self.

[vjrei]

I haven't being rejected by promoters. It is just taking me a big deal of time making then to understand there are different kinds of VJing.

There are not parties in NYC, most of the job one is going to get is creating footage for the clubs. It is a better deal but is not that fun.

Now, I invite you to come to NY. Some people are telling me that after 9/11 this place is not fun any more and I can tell because I was here for the last time in 1998.

About my atitude... if I need an engineer I will not going to hire the first engineer that comes to me. There is a big difference between a civil engineer and a audio engineer. VJs should be very organized by now.

I will not hire a DJ that plays House Music if what I want is Trance or Merengue.

That is why VJ still a Babel Tower and will never make it to the surface just because promoters do not know what the deal is. They just do not know what they are getting.

VJing will never become a productive industry world wide, only locally depending on how responsible the VJs of the areas are.

Do you get what I am saying? I know this is way too deep for some people, sorry, I do not smoke pot.

[akira_k]

Originally posted by vjrei
I know this is way too deep for some people, sorry, I do not smoke pot. Yup, I've never read deepest tosh anywhere I think.

Maybe you could do with some grass. :P

[vjrei]

Wow, talking about attitude...

I just came from a club here in NYC. The party was called "Caliente".

Just as I said: The VJ was a girl from the comunity, she didn't have a dv cam this time. She had one 17" Powerbook with Grid, 2 V4 and there was another system with another computer.

What I saw was the same thing that I complain about: Both of her sources used the so famous kaleidoscope effect all night long! I mean, you have not one but two! V4 to just only the same cheese effect? please!

The footage: Armatic 80% of the time without even modify the parameter.

Of course she was doing her performance on one side and the DJ on the other side. Two different thing, no sync at all. She had 5 screens for her, it was actually her performance because no one could see the DJ but... who cares, VJ is art, her art, her kaleidoscope/artmatic presents art.

Now, she saw me, I said hi and give her a kiss on the chick (as a regular latin american thing). I ask her about the software in the system that I didn't know. She answered something very strange, I ask her again and she repeat the same thing. She was obviously fooling me with that, she didn't want to tell me, the system is one of the Edirol models. Then she said: I am busy. Ok, I leaved her alone.

I went to dance with my friends and I saw the main projector was very dark. I went upstair (an hour later) and I ask her. She told me the projector was fine, now do not bother me that I am working!

Ok! working on what? if she is not doing anything any way. So, if the projector was fine the problem was her performance then. All she was doing was moving the blue channel up and down (of beat of course) and that was it and draging the clips from the computer desktop to the Grid, she didn't even had her set up ready even it was 1am already.

I am against about using kaleidoscope effect but seems that some people can not just live without it. Then the Armatic graphics. The only person that I have seen using that thing profesionally is Holly. I have being doing some stuff with it but I rather use After Effects.

Oh! and I forgot! the name of the DJ in the character generator... she could seel one of those V4 and get Motion Dive 3 at list. The name was not animated, in some regular font and in black and white. I would never do that, actually, you can see in my demo how I manage the DJs name's in most of the cases.

Well, that was just one night in a club. The DJ was not that inspiring neither, the music was good at a times but I assume that working in clubs really put your mood down. It is not the best place for a VJ. It will burn you so fast. I rather be in events. Clubs are good to make a name for yourself, that is it.

[vjrei]

Originally posted by akira_k
Yup, I've never read deepest tosh anywhere I think.

Maybe you could do with some grass. :P

Yes Akira, I trhew you that one for you to have something to play with. :love:

[Freespirit]

I used FCP when I started VJ-ing. It has this big advantage of the high image quality and the realtime scrubbing wich works very easily. I used it with VHS and DVD-players and any videomixer that was available.

After a while I got sick of using DVD's and Tapes and now use Vj-programms for mixing (also makes me less dependent on the shitty mixers most clubs supply, and I don't perform enough to buy my own).

But still FCP is a great tool especially for people who want high quality clips to mix with. I also wonder if it already is possible to use the reallime effects in FCP on a new system (live)

There used to be this crew called Square-Square who used FCP for vj-ing, I believe they don't VJ anymore but they even had an article on apple.com about them.

[akira_k]

My god. vjrei talks about cheese

[trotskythecat]

I've certainly used fcp's realtime scratching to make some footage right before a show, and I could see using jkl-editing shortcuts to shuttle things back and forth. If apple would fix their tiny little lag in playback, it could be wonderful.

Tools do not a VJ make. I'm sorry that there seem to be so many 'crappy VJs' - perhaps you should invite them to a show with more mixing going on, so they can see what is possible.

In Los Angeles, we maintain a friendly atmosphere where VJs can teach each other - every one seems to excel at different parts of VJing, so coming together to play takes all of our skills higher.

[StrictlyandLowdown]

I use FCP, and have absolutely no problems. In fact I am constantly mixing using FCP on Two laptops, DVD player and
a live camera all going through an MX50 or MX70.

FCP is just a way to play clips, and is fairly elastic-scratching effects and shuttling as well as much quicker access to instant QT clips than anything else.

My show has so much variety I really can't understand why you would be against a simple software program.

[vjrei]

Everything would be resolved if QuickTime was Firewire capable. That is something that I have been asking to apple for a long time.

I even went over that with the people of Arkaos but for them was more important to wort with... network streamin?

For those VJs programers, please, send us a plug in to make QuickTime Firewire compatible.

That way, no matter what software you use, you will get real time full quality output. Problem resolved.

[famouswhendead]

QT is firewire capable since it's an API.

QT the application sadly does not have a firewire option as an output.

Basically what we do the smaller the gig the more likely we are just running on grid/resolume etc.
Bigger gigs we go to FW output from FCP and we put most stuff on dvd since big gigs consist of more camera switching.

[djnada]

Sorry, I've never done this before. Can you output full screen on a second monitor through FCP? If so how? I do not know this trick. I have FCP HD and it sounds interesting. - de Nada

[famouswhendead]

You're able to choose your video output in audio video settings.

Either digital screen or firewire devices if you have them connected.

in 4.1 you can choose the video adapter as well in 4.5 you can't! it wants an apple digital screen attached.