Debate Topics - we need three!

[spark]

Hi all,

The event will have three main themed discussions, and we need to decide what those themes, or topics to debate, are. These discussions will then play out at AVIT and the results written up for vjcentral, so lets make the three work together to get a broad a debate as possible.

Cheers,

Toby

[spark]

ok its blue sky time:

- here are some starters for ten from me

what should the vj community do next to further itself? we've got a history of succesfull DIY: first there was eyecandy, then vjc/vjf, then vjs.net / avit events, so what's next?

what distribution and performance models are out there?

- and some from unjulation

what is a vj
art vs entertainment
what do we bring to the experiance(are we worth the mony)
what do's it mean to party in the 21st centuary
the bissnes side and how to get work
are premoters realy the devil incarnate

- and who should they be pitched at, who should be involved?

is this exclusively shop talk?
should we get 'experts' outside of, but related, to vjs?
public, punters, promoters, etc etc

- ok, thats enough to start. lets keep this discussion tight as it is linked from the avit site ;-)

[eXhale]

Hmm lots of interesting topics. A discussion on what's next for the VJ community would interest me a lot, I think one of the 3 topics should be dedicated to this. Maybe associated with a general theme such as "where do we go from here?" (which would logically be the last discussion topic).

A debate on "What is a VJ" could be heated, we would need ***** and Rovastar though ;)

Don't you think the topic "what it means to party in the 21st century" is too broad to generate interests?

should we get 'experts' outside of, but related, to vjs?
public, punters, promoters, etc etc
Yes, yes, yes, yes! :)

[rossco]

ok, as there has (to date) been problems with other people accepting vj'ing as a form in its own right why not have a discussion that works on developing a way for the whole 'clubbing/party' scene to work together?

this could include in itself:

-what is vj'ing and how does it work with the scene at the mo

-how can the people involved in vj'ing make it more accepted and wanted to others for the future

- what is the future for the whole scene (this will cover the ammalgamation of dj/vj/lighting/decor)

+ anything else that i can't think of right now :) that fits with this discussion.

looking forward to AV in IT.

ross

[Anyone]

I have 4 topic suggestions:


-what is vj'ing artisticaly
-what is vj'ing technicaly
-what is vj'ing commercialy
-what is vj'ing historicaly

NE1

[unjulation]

the idea of "what it means to party in the 21st centuery" comes from the fact i've seen this sceen grow and develope since
1986-7 and now it has gone through it's honymoon period a long time ago and it's now developed into a fully fledged relationship as it were, so i was interested to find out the what it means for both us as practitioners and for the public as a whole to go out week in week out, how this afects us as a sociaty and how it influances the world as a whole both the inderviduals within and the whole, i just remember in 1990 when watching match of the day and they were useing 4/4 beat music for the first time within there adverts, it just indicated how pervasive the music and sceen had become, so i was interested in ware it was now

[Rovastar]

Originally posted by eXhale

A debate on "What is a VJ" could be heated, we would need ***** and Rovastar though ;)


Don't worry about me mate I will be there fighting my corner. :)
***** is the one chickening out.;):):D

[unjulation]

we need someone to take this on bord 'cos i havent thought about it to much over the last few days
i can get some names from the northen film school and a couple of premoters from clubs hear in leeds
also i'm on the case with a vocal pa
but this needs nailing down subject and therfore the content of each subject and leading on from this the overall stuf coverd under subject heading this will also dictate who we have on each panal
any volantiers?

[spark]

we've already got some interesting names, but yeah the more interesting viewpoints people can bring through their mates, promoters etc the better, so get in touch with me if there is anybody you think we should approach.

in terms of nailing down the topics, i was going to put a message out to the newsgroups asking for any more opinions, so the topics won't be nailed in the next few days but early next week for sure.

i agree with ex that the last discussion should be about 'whats next', especially as this will take place once the public has moved on.

i think rossco and unj are on the same tip and thats a really important area - basically putting we do into the bigger picture of the 'industry' where thats completely the wrong word.

anyone's list is excellent, but we'll be addressing most of that in our showcases of hardware, software and content/style

which leaves us with one topic completely open...

please continue to contribute as this is not set in stone and it can only benefit from more opinions!

[wellREDman]

just cos we put it to bed here doesn't mean its not still relevant for avit
remmeber the whole point of this is to educate the genral public, about what we do, what were up against and how they can do it too

[syzygy]

Originally posted by spark

which leaves us with one topic completely open...

please continue to contribute as this is not set in stone and it can only benefit from more opinions! [/B]

I think a topic that touches on the Art vs Entertainment issue would be good. This could also include ideas such as using visuals as way of getting messages across (I personally really like visuals that have a 'message')

I can think of plenty of good arguments for both sides of the entertainment / art debate so I'd think that such a session could be really interesting.

Another one that would be quite good would be a discussion of how much difference visuals make to a clubnight. This might be a bit similar to the other topic of how visuals fit into the wider clubbing world but I think a discussion on what visuals actually do for a night could be great (especially if there are journalists / promotors there to be swayed by our fantastic arguments ;) )

I guess this topic could be summed up as "what is the point of visuals?"

SyZyGy

[spark]

tee hee hee... hopefully, 'what is the point of visuals' will be answered definatively a few hours later in the clubnight... doing what we do best!

good stuff syz, so if we were to have art vs entertainment, then where would it go? is there a premise or question we can hang it on? art vs ent is interesting but kinda circular...

[Anyone]

humm...

I have to agree with spark on that one,
if we have a whole topic about

art / entertainment / communication / expression issues

it might boil down to only:

- "i think VJing is art"
- "no, it's entertainment"
- "no, art"
- "entertainment"
- "art"

etc.

art v entertainment is anyhow in my opinion a subject that is going to spring up implicintly in all the other topics, we will talk about it for sure, without having it as an explicit subject talk...

dont u think ?

NE1

[unjulation]

when i was saying this needs naileing then i'm going on the idea that whoever will be part of each panel will need time to get some coherant arguments together that and the fact that whoever hosts the perticular debate will have to be well primed on the subject, the host themselves will almost need to play devils advocate to either the panel or the audiance to keep the overall topic flowing and developing

[syzygy]

Originally posted by spark

good stuff syz, so if we were to have art vs entertainment, then where would it go? is there a premise or question we can hang it on? art vs ent is interesting but kinda circular...

If the discussion was a straight argument between two points of view then I agree - the art vs entertainment thing could get really circular.

However, if it is more of a constructive discussion about how the technology behind visuals can be used then some really interesting things could come out of it.

Views that could be expressed:

Visuals can be used for enhancing enjoyment of music
Visuals can be used to market a club night more effectively
Visuals can be used to express a political idea
Visuals can be used to get exposure for important issues
Visuals can be used as art in their own right

I'm sure there are more. If we had people on the panel who have experience of using visuals in very different ways, a really interesting discussion could result. The key would be to keep it positive - not about one point of view being correct but about everybody learning about how everyone else is using visuals.

The visuals I currently do are more on the entertainment side - enhancing the punters experience of a clubnight and helping nights to market themselves. I'd like to get more into doing visuals that have a message behind them so it woudl be great to hear from anyone who is doing this already.

Do you see what I mean? As an argument that people are trying to win, this would be pretty crap but as a discussion where everyone learns about what everyone else is doing, it could be great.

SyZyGy

[syzygy]

Just had another idea for a topic:

"What is the role of sound reactive software in VJing?"

I know there is a whole range of views on this, from people who pretty much use sound reactive stuff for a whole show, through people who mix sound reactive stuff with other content, and on to people who don't belive in using sound reactive software at all.

Could be an interesting discussion...

SyZyGy

[wellREDman]

yeah that sounds like a good idea syzygy
rova can be our tame visualiser for that one, and maybe i'll reprazent for the vjs who mix vis with other stuff

[spark]

don't let me near that debate - its a bloody good idea but i'll start fantasising about my dream: a hardware beat & spectrum analyser to midi info box. i will appear deranged and you'll have to cart me out, quietly whimpering.

[wellREDman]

you always appear deranged :)

[GreenHippo]

Been talking to Toby over last few days about getting involved in the show. We are up for it BIG TIME.
Its interesting raeding what's being said. And if you think you creative guys struggle to communicate what it's all about to Joe Public, you want to try selling it for a living!!! The guys in suits running many venues can't see a direct revenue stream from visuals Most dont understand that the best revenue stream is people staying for another beer because the whole sound/light/visuals are kicking to the beat of the DJ! Suits always start asking if they can use it for advertising fer gods sake!! Like the average punter hasn't just switched off his tele because he's sick of it, then he gets it 14ft x 7.5ft in his face in somewhere he paid to get into. There are exceptions of course but thats why the forward thinking independant clubs will run with this much more readily than most of the big chains.

SOOOOOO, we are gonna start educating the PUNTERS whenever we can so they get to see what genius' lurk on forums like this and how it can be as important in a venue as the tunes. If the punters want something, its amazing how quickly they move to embrace it.

I suppose Green Hippo are the odd ones out here since we are commercial but I think that could prove interesting, both at the show and on this forum. Hopefully we can keep it sensible but I've put my flame proof suit on ready for those who think we are 'bastardising their art' ;) Quick....duck Ginger.... flamethrower at 2 O'clock.......!!!!!

Looking forward to the show.

As for topics, I'd be interested in anything that relates to the move from underground to mainstream. How about, 'can we be creative AND commercial?'

[Anyone]

ok we got more or less a good idea of what the topics are,

I think we should start thinking who we put on these topics...
obviously hippo have got a unique perspective on the whole thing and it would be important to have them participate...

who else ?

[Anyone]

guys,

just had a flash...

i think it is #1 priority to include the following topic

"how has VJForums created a sense of community amongst VJs worldwide"

am I right ?

NE1

[spark]

you're absolutely right - its already in the mix for the last topic as understanding that is essential to making the right next move...

[unjulation]

i was chating to CALi, helping out with sponsership gathering, and he put forward the idea that for the conferance hosts it might be an idea if we have two hosts at a time, because the role of the host is so important to the runing of the conferance it's self it might make it esier for the inderviduals if there was 2, anyway just a thought

[Rovastar]

Originally posted by wellREDman
rova can be our tame visualiser for that one,

:):D

I am up of this and any topic for that matter. Be it in the audience or on the panel or whatever you are having.

Welcome on board GreenHippo I am preety interested on your veiwpoints on the whole thing. I have yet to see the Hippobox thing in action but hopefully will next week - am really curious about how you implement the automated sound reactive stuff and you attempts at the holy grail of this automatic visualizers stuff 'How to ALWAYS detect a beat?' :) One day we will get there.:)

You seem to have a lot of respect on in the community in a strange way yet I have little.:);)

[unjulation]

i'd like to talke about the use of used/created visuals(and all that implies)within the expreshion of self
and tied into that is the use of visul stimuli within our own indervidual/colective understanding of our selves and therfore the outside world
leading on from this is wether this is realy the case, which then leads to what we are capabile of within our colective understanding ?
anyway just a thought :)