How does this work?

[johnvid]

Hi all,

I produce visuals for clubs on the odd occasion, and I was kind of wondering a few things really, about how this VJ site works for VJ's

1. How many active VJ's are here.

2. Surely the same cut throat attitude is just as prevalent here as it is in the clubs, so how wuld anyone get any work?

3. I suppose the only way to make sure you get your money for visuals, is to make sure you do the gig live and get paid for that and never produce a tape for a venue as a demo. Unless it has a big DEMO TITLE Right across it.

4. Selling visuals to other VJ's with more connections is only going to make it even more difficult to get work. and whats to stop people duplicating that footage. so a very high initial fee needs to be charged for the graphics

so if someone can answer any of these worries i would be really interested in hearing why i shouldnt be a paranoid producer.

view my site www.i-matter.net

[holly]

Hi Jonvid.

VJForums is not necessarily a site just for "pro"-VJs. It's also a network for artists, a community to kick around ideas and learn about others' techniques, and a forum for troubleshooting gear and passing along info on the latest software and hardware. I would actually guess that very few job opportunities have come up on this site, although often VJs have gotten out of town gigs and hooked up with others locally to form teams, share resources, rent equipment, and just to get together to perform..., all through the connections they've made by chatting and just generally being themselves here on the forums.

To answer your questions:

1. There's no way to tell who is and who isn't a VJ (and I assume you mean a "pro"-VJ who exclusively makes a living with club visuals). Many here are fans, dabblers, programmers, visual artists, curious, and pros who suppliment their income with freelance graphic and coding gigs. Not everyone's goal is to live on a bus and go on tour with a huge rave. Some VJs are happy sponsoring their own night in a small bar or doing the once a year big event thing. Others are taking an art's scene path that leads them to show in gallery spaces and installations....

2. The cut throat thing is not really an issue here on VJF. Sure we have egos, we fight and voice our opinions. Some are willing to publish their fees while others keep mum about it, but since this is generally not a job-list we have no problems sharing practical knowledge. Cut-throat is a state of mind. I don't think it really reflects the job market or the scene as a whole. If you see all other VJs as your enemy (and believe me there are those who do) you will be cutting yourself off from opportunities, as well as seperating yourself from over-opinionated newbies and the communal hippie-liberal aura. VJing is a small but fast growing field. It has become more than just a job. It's a scene with video-oriented events, publications, DVDs, and software. As a VJ I would maybe try to hold on to my own gigs by being exclusive, but as an arts promoter and a content creator I hope to meet as many open-minded VJs and fans as possible.

3. The VJ thing is still a new industry even tho aspects of club visuals have been around since..., well, arguably the dawn of time. There really aren't any set rules about how you make money here. Certainly there is interest from the public but that doesn't immediately translate into cash. Gigging is one way to make money, but also a way to build a reputation and promote yourself. My gigs generally come through reputation and word of mouth. There are plenty of competing VJs here in NYC but so far we have decided to stay as a community and co-participate in events when we can. There are a lot of free performances and good-will exchanges and a healthy scene has developed. Of course there are VJs outside the scene, but being connected seems smarter because you learn about shady promoters well in advance of signing on to a night, and there's always the possibility of someone kicking you a job or renting your gear when possible.... Having a positive reputation can be worth more than just VJ gigs.

4. I've sold some of my content to other local VJs, tho there is an opinion that you should only sell/trade to VJs outside your market. Personally I don't think we are at a point where showing the same content on the same night will hurt us financially. I would say a lot of my gigs come on the basis that I can create something new for the night, not necessarily based on my archive of exclusive footage..., and I try to turn over my videos every three months or so, so passing along some of the videos I feel are "spent" for me gives the footage new life and hopefully can polish up a friend's gig. Being a content creator allows me to pick and choose what I want to share and what I want to keep. I believe there is a lot of value in trying to elevate the scene as a group because no two VJs are really alike, and the more connections you have as a group the more clubs and bars will feature live-mix video and the more VJing will be a standard for clubs. Eventually this means more work for everyone. If all VJs are just showing low-rez, hi-lag-time A-V plug-ins, I think it sort of lowers the opportunities of the scene. There is currently a perception among groupies that VJing is about computers sort of automating visuals to the music, and I'm happy to say that I've been promoting the opposite idea. VJing is about the VJ, his vision and ideas and talent ? the computer is just ne tool among many. Whether that is recognized by other VJs first, then promoters, then the general audience.... One step at a time.

We host a regular bi-monthly party here in NYC, and we get loads of VJs willing to come in and sit with other VJs and jam a while and then do their own thing on the screens. I think it is very encouraging to get several pros in one room and see how different everyone's take is: from software to disc players to live-camera to whacked-out anolog, without the need to play for the crowd or try to please a promoter. We're developing an appreciation for the range of possible visuals not just among VJs but among fans and friends. I know my opinions have changed over the past year from 100% hardware to adding a laptop and software when it suits me. I think a lot of local VJs have gone the opposite route and opened up the solo lappy to adding disc players and a mixer. Participating in these events has only boosted my reputation and the other VJs in the area, and at least it has introduced us all to a network of job opportunities and information about what we do.

If you want to be cut-throat, maybe this is the wrong place for you, but if you are maybe looking for opportunities, for like-minded people, and maybe a way to open the door to distributing your content then please stick around. We welcome your contributions!
:love2:

[alangeering]

VJing is about the VJ, his vision and ideas and talent

"his" meaning the inclusive "his/her/their" ;)

[WordVirus23]

"active" means different things to different ppl.... some would say one big ass party every 2 months is "active" some are gigging fools (I'm in this catergory... I generally gig twice a week) some don't "gig" just get viddy with it in the bedrrom/lair.
anyhow, I think at last count, between the EyeCandy mailing list and here (the 2 biggest hubs of vidiot info I know of) there were approx 3-4000 (please correct me if I'm wrong) and that doesn't include many japanese/asian VJs (which there must be a ton of!)

cutthroatness: reap what yee sow is what I say.

if ya play nice with the other kids, maybe they'll let you play with their toys ;)
I'm one of those dirty hippy, "what you've got a bus?!"/gear heads Holly spoke of... please check out www.audiovisualizers.com the guy that runs it (Dave) is a very interesting fellow, but his File Server is awesome, the rewards of sharing are untold treasures from across the globe also, check out Radley's www.electronicoptica.com for what should prove to be THE distrobution network for commercial VJs.

Be assured that if you sell a promoter a video tape/DVD he's not gonna throw it away...
one-off, highly branded (with party name) (and dated) [and tagged] {the shorter, the better} tapes for shows are the least likely to be "recycled". but I'm sure worse has happened. Performing Live, helps people realize that there's a person behind the computer somewhere, I think of us like the wizard in The Wizard of Oz (PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE SCREEN!) a sort of technological medium between the great gods S&P (sony & pioneer) and the masses.

boy, I've gotta lay off the grass.... heh :)

as Holly pointed out, I really doubt anyone producing footage is selling their Hot off the RenderFarm projects.... the stuff that gets sold/traded to the general public VJ is, I'm sure personal backstock.

why you shouldn't be a paranoid producer....

well, if you want people to see your clips, you can't be a nervous artist, you've gotta get out there and see what the market is willing to support... right now, I wouldn't plan on buying that new car with the fortunes you'll make selling VJ content... you CAN however know that VJs like your stuff enough to shell out money for it... and if you don't sell your loops, then the samplers will rape your DVD, and you won't see a dime. I wish more people sold loops.... every VJ adds their personal touch to their sets, I wish for example that Addictive TV sold loops <drool> I caught the last little bit of their workshop on AE at AVIT.chicago... was awesome stuff.

..james...
Pilot/Director
NoInput: Visual Product
Central California

PS. I'm personally a sampling/sharer (sometimes content producer, but not much) but I have ethics... sampling other VJs is bad karma in my book, sampling TV/commercials is turning something crappy (television programming) into something beautiful and entertaining..

PPS. thank you for producing content, please sell or share. if no one sees it, no one appreciates it. the more people that see it, the more are likely to appreciate it.

P?S I can usually tell someone (a punter) who asks, where I got a clip from... producer/tv/shared. all producers have such different styles, its great to mash you guys up together.
</rant>

Originally posted by johnvid
Hi all,

I produce visuals for clubs on the odd occasion, and I was kind of wondering a few things really, about how this VJ site works for VJ's

1. How many active VJ's are here.

2. Surely the same cut throat attitude is just as prevalent here as it is in the clubs, so how wuld anyone get any work?

3. I suppose the only way to make sure you get your money for visuals, is to make sure you do the gig live and get paid for that and never produce a tape for a venue as a demo. Unless it has a big DEMO TITLE Right across it.

4. Selling visuals to other VJ's with more connections is only going to make it even more difficult to get work. and whats to stop people duplicating that footage. so a very high initial fee needs to be charged for the graphics

so if someone can answer any of these worries i would be really interested in hearing why i shouldnt be a paranoid producer.

view my site www.i-matter.net