visual "theory"

[TechnoLust]

[Editor's note: this post has been moved from the sampled vs self-created visuals discussion (http://vjforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=3919) since the other thread was too long and this post touch a possible new discussion topic]

You know... any university with any sort of "liberal arts" curriculum is likely to have classes on "music theory." Maybe it's time for "visual theory"? There are so many angles to discussing the many qualities of visualizations that any attempt to focus on one aspect seems to bring up all sorts of related, but off-topic, discussions.

So I did a search on "visual theory" on the web site of the local university... and the first page I found is a hot-bed of ideas and philosophy... not so much about VJing, but about the larger influence of "media" and "medium," of which technology is a key determining factor.

http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/comm321/gwalker/media.htm

The Electronic Age: Electronic media

Emergence of the ?Global Village?
Cool medium of TV encourages spontaneity and defined involvement, retribalization of humanity.
Passive spectator effect.
Linear, logical thinking becomes useless in the electronic culture.



So I guess what I'm trying to say is that we're trying to sort out a topic that one could spend an entire semester studying, and even this course is only covering a portion of what we've discussed in this thread. It says nothing about VJ-type concerns, and only kind of addresses the impact of mass media as it concerns our interests, only kind of addresses the issue of "challenging or coddling" our viewers.

No wonder we're fighting like this... the issues are bigger than we are! No, I'm not saying that this discussion is pointless, but I am saying that we're only scratching the surface of some very big issues and theories. Even the notion of trying to logically think this debate through is challenged by the above-referenced course!

Food for thought.

-TL

[neoteo]

my philosofical opinion on this is .. emotions is what count ...
im a video editor , i learnd the effect one image can do to another image if they are connected , and the same image can do a complete diferent effect on the same person emotion if connected a diferent image , sequence , racord , this are words for very fat meanings ... with 100 years of age ... and counting ... with the technologie going this fast ... i predict we will see a long 2 hour movie in a theater room , with music and video pre done ... all sincronized ( of corse ! ) and we stay 2 hours sit down enjoing the amazing graphics dancing to the music .... i belive this can hit the main stream .... :alien:

[joncates]

hi TechnoLust

the course you found appears to be very influenced by McLuhan's ideas. Marshall McLuhan (http://www.marshallmcluhan.com/) is someone who ppl interested in these subj's might want to read.

in terms of theorizing the visual aspects of techno-social structures sum other areas to look into would be media studies, visual cultural studies, science + technology studies, social histories of technology, etc. many schools have areas or depts that [address/investigate] these issues + you can find ppl [writing/working] on these ideas.

//jonCates

[Amukidi]

But don't forget to take a big shovel!

[Lara]

:lol: Bwa ha ha John, you crack me up!

[littlecatalyst]

Originally posted by neoteo
im a video editor , i learnd the effect one image can do to another image if they are connected , and the same image can do a complete diferent effect on the same person emotion if connected a diferent image , sequence .... :alien:

i think that theres a lot to be gleaned from 2D theory as well as from moving image theory.... especially since youre bringing up montag etheory i would like to stress that we are involved in something taht is not cut-cut a+b as wel veer into and out of images that have meaning as well as abstractions.... so rather than look at straight montage i think we haveto include people like sergei eisenstine in particular Overtonal Montage thories... cause that is the timeline we operate on, its not a+b but rather what is created by all the a's all the b's all visualizers in between.... what ends up happening is that we create meaning through the overtones-- something that is a little more esoteric than cut cut

[Amukidi]

Lara - I aim to please m'dear!!

[joncates]

yr abs'ly right littlecatalyst.

live a/v +/or vj'ing is also a system of relationships that are not just edits or timelines or databases. Lev Manovich addresses sum of these concerns in _The Language of New Media_ (http://www.manovich.net/LNM/index.html), but as you pt'ed out littlecatalyst, there are probs w/sampling cinematic [theory/history] in the context of live a/v +/or vj work.

Expanded Cinema by Gene Youngblood (http://vasulka.org/Kitchen/PDF_ExpandedCinema/ExpandedCinema.html) might also interest ppl + is very viable + historical.
//jonCates

[disassembler]

Originally posted by joncates

Expanded Cinema by Gene Youngblood (http://vasulka.org/Kitchen/PDF_ExpandedCinema/ExpandedCinema.html) might also interest ppl + is very viable + historical.
//jonCates


Supreme read.

Another would be "Ways of Seeing" by John Berger
http://www.art-book-reviews.com/Ways_of_Seeing_0140135154.html

[joncates]

someOne else who is [thinking about/working on] these topics is Henry Warwick who organized the recent San Francisco Performance Cinema Symposium (http://www.kether.com/personal/SFPCS/). many talented ppl [presented/performed] + Henry is working on a DVD of the event. criticalartware presented a talk focussed on the [idea/history] of "realtime" + we will soon be posting the vid + sum comments on our discourse() (http://www.criticalartware.net/lib/discourse/).
chk the [presenters/performers] for the Symposium b/c you find a wonderful range of different approaches by really great ppl who are all invested (in 01 way or another) in the topics being raised here.
//jonCates

[TechnoLust]

Hey everyone!

Thanks for all the links to other resources to look at. It think I can spend a good chunk of my weekend absorbing some of the influences that have affected some of you.

By next week I hope to be able to take this discussion up to the next level... wherever that may be. :cool:

-TL

[oxygen]

couldn't find the other thread about someone asking for
sources about vj-//video art related stuff.
so i'll post it here.
..in case you're interested.....


-Dancing in the distraction factory, Andrew Goodwin ISBN: 0-415-09170 5 (Routlegde)
-An introduction of fim art/Kirsten Thompson & David Bordwell
-God is het idool van de militairen (interview met Paul Virilio), Arcade nr.1 1989
-timeshift on videoculture/Sean Cubitt,ISBN;0-415-01678-9 (Routlegde)
-Art of the electronic age/Frank Popper/ISBN:0-500-23650
-Illuminating video, an essential guide to video art./Doug Hall, Sally Jo Fifer ISBN0-89381-390-7

[vjvishnu]

Maybe it's time for "visual theory"?
What about a "general theory of live video art"?

Other artforms have theoretical frameworks from which to build critisism. Why shouldn't live video art? :confused:

I can think of a few sources from which a VJ theoritician or critic could draw refference points:

theatre
painting
cinema
computer games
television
performance art practice
60's - 70's analogue Video Experimenteers (vasulka's .etc)
(non-live) Video Art (Bill Viola, etc)

:D

You could possibly also add musical performance theory, but for me one of the closest similarities is to early cinema makers, some of whom, according to the oxford history of world cinema, used multiple projectors and silloette puppets/cards to mix celluliod live. These "proto VJ's" got their theories from painting and theater but as we kno cinema ended up making up its own unique theories and languages and becoming just about THE prominant artform of the 20th C.

What seed then do we nurture as early live video makers? :nod:

-VjVishnu

God loves live video.