Multiple screen : multiple output > multiple graphic cards ?

[chromaniac]

Hi there !

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I am totaly *new* here :D I'm a VJ from the city of Fribourg, Switzerland. Using MODUL8 and MADAPPER, most of time for the moment.
I like to build my own screen and perform live and them with good electronic DJ's / live artist.
Website : www.franzkarl.ch (http://www.franzkarl.ch)
:club: :confused:
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The problem :

A theatre contact me because they need 6 video screens for an event in a big room. They want to send 6 differents diaporamas of paints during an artist is reading a book. The 6 screens must be independants. Because of the display there is no way to group even 2 screens on the same output. And of course if the solution work good the system could bien use again for other projects !

I only have a macbookpro unibody (2010) with only a minidisplay output.
After lots of researches that's what I found that could work :

- a tower computer with a single RADEON ATI graphic card, 6 outputs, possibility like MATROX does it (if I understand...) with EYEINFINITY to have one giant signal on the 6 screens (cool but I need 6 independant for this time..) http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2010/04/13/ati-radeon-hd-5870-eyefinity-6-review/1

- a tower computer with 2 asus graphic card each with 3 output. A reseller tell me this is lighter solution for the computer and less expensive.

- a media server + a computer...with a special graphic card ?? But I do not think a media server is required and this is an expensive solution.

What is the best solution for the best price ? Am I looking in the right direction ??

Please Help :cool:
looking forward to have some ideas and comments here !

[alfaleader]

A desktop is possibly the cheapest solution, you can take a mid (or high) end card (for the possible gpu encoding of your program) and a very cheap card next to it to get extra outputs.

[Anders]

Why not go for 2 trippleheads and only 2 outputs, need a decent pc for it to run so maybe it will not be cheaper, but in the end you will have more relevant equipment in the future(unless u run in to 6 output gigs all the time)

[stickygreen]

I built a machine with a HD5870 Eyefinity 6 about a year ago, it's a good tool to have, as i also use it as an editing station. It's not a cheap option... But that depends on what kind of budget this production has to offer you.

In the past I've been asked to provide 6 and even 7 screen output, this isn't a problem, as I just attach my Matrox Triplehead2go to the video card, and it expands my display area by 2 screens. Or the other option is to install a second video card to get that extra screen.

a few things you should keep in mind with a system like this, is you're going to need a fast Hard Drive, a SSD, or a maybe a RAID0 of 2x SSD (thats what I have) plus make sure your machine is transportable. A huge gaming case isn't a good idea, there just to large. I used a rack mount case, then installed that into a shock mount flight case. it's pretty solid. Also the Mini Display Port outputs aren't that good for going long distance, so i route all my mini DP outputs thru a Matrix, this adds reliability, and redundancy to the system, thats very important!

[chromaniac]

A desktop is possibly the cheapest solution, you can take a mid (or high) end card (for the possible gpu encoding of your program) and a very cheap card next to it to get extra outputs.

Thx, I think this is the best and cheapest solution, maybe somebody could comment the thread with hardware (graphic card) experiences or advises !

Why not go for 2 trippleheads and only 2 outputs, need a decent pc for it to run so maybe it will not be cheaper, but in the end you will have more relevant equipment in the future (unless u run in to 6 output gigs all the time)

in fact 2 triplehead could be enough but more expensive than 2 cards. Although with that I could launch 3 diaporamas on one large screen wich is sent on 3 beamers with a MATROX TRIPLEHEAD, and 2 times this operation to get a 6 screens magic show... :cheers:
I totally agree with the futures option but I will not buy this material, the client will and it will stay in the theater. So he will choose his future options...

Thank you alfaleader & Anders for your answers !

[chromaniac]

Thx stickygreen for sharing your experience !!

I built a machine with a HD5870 Eyefinity 6 about a year ago, it's a good tool to have, as i also use it as an editing station. It's not a cheap option...

Excellent ! Then you need cables...:whip:
I think ~ $ 150.- for 6 adapters

http://www.itechnews.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/StarTech-Mini-DisplayPort-to-VGA-adapter.jpghttp://media.bestofmicro.com/Radeon-HD-5870-eyefinity,I-2-243002-13.jpg


a few things you should keep in mind with a system like this, is you're going to need a fast Hard Drive, a SSD, or a maybe a RAID0 of 2x SSD

thx I take note of it !


plus make sure your machine is transportable.


I'm lucky to be "resident" in an excellent great alternativ concert hall (http://www.fri-son.ch) close to my home and the theater is not too far.. But I wish I'll find gigs in other citys or festivals ! I was thinking about flight case solution but that is expensive material to me for the moment. I have a laptop + mouse + keyboard, an akai mpk mini and one midifighter (and one projector).


Also the Mini Display Port outputs aren't that good for going long distance,


is there a rule to follow to manage the distances with the different output formats ?


so i route all my mini DP outputs thru a Matrix


I don't know this. This give more power to the signal for the distance ? Can you tell me a reliable product name ?

Thx for all !!!

[alfaleader]

The eyefinity6 is a great product, but a bit pricey and not that practical with the displayport outputs.

You could take a HD6870 (2X DVI an 2X DP) and 2X a HD6450 or HD5450 (hdmi, VGA and DVI). The 6870 takes care of the graphical power that is used for example in the DXV codec in resolume. The cheap (they cost 30€) hd5450s will add extra outputs.

The rule is that digital video won't go far (DVI digital, Displayport, hdmi) and VGA will go a lot further. It depends on the GPU if the VGA in displayport has enough power to go far.

[sleepytom]

Resolume actually cannot use more than one GPU - I've just built a system with Eyefinity 6 and an additional 4 output eyefinity card. Resolume crashes when they are both active.

The ONLY working ways to get 6 outputs from resolume are either with an eyefinity card (3 outputs minimum) and 2x TH2Go, or 1 Datapath X4.

(personally i would get the datapath it's a much better system than the th2go)

You'll then need a top line 6core i7 system to run it, SSDs (most likely 3 SSD drives needed - 1 for boot 2 in a RAID0 for video content)

The cost of doing this will be about £2000-£3000 (about the cost of 2 days rental of a Vista Spyder system - ie very cheap given the power and flexibility of the system!)

[chromaniac]

You could take a HD6870 (2X DVI an 2X DP) and 2X a HD6450 or HD5450 (hdmi, VGA and DVI). The 6870 takes care of the graphical power that is used for example in the DXV codec in resolume. The cheap (they cost 30€) hd5450s will add extra outputs.

Thank you for thoses references ! I'm not using the DXV codec yet but it look interesting, but this codec created by RESOLUME is only for use with RESOLUME ! Comments says it's slowly with other softwares. But I need to buy RESOLUME ARENA it is an excellent software running on PC and MAC with great audio, video, mapping possibilities !

[chromaniac]

The ONLY working ways to get 6 outputs from resolume are either with an eyefinity card (3 outputs minimum) and 2x TH2Go, or 1 Datapath X4.

(personally i would get the datapath it's a much better system than the th2go)

Ok thx, Datapath is a little more expensive than 2 TH2Go (~ $ 1400.- vs. ~ $600$)

[sleepytom]

Digital TH2go is about £250-£300
Datapath X4 is about £650

it's really worth paying the little bit extra for it.

[Anders]

The DXV codec is only for Resolume.

Im sure the datapad is good investment, but my analog 3head has never crashed, but still not as flexible as the 4x.

i dident know that there where a limit to the outputs from resolume, you might want to look into something like coollux for an "easy" all in one fix http://www.coolux.de/products/pandoras-box-server/

[chromaniac]

Digital TH2go is about £250-£300
Datapath X4 is about £650
it's really worth paying the little bit extra for it.

in fact, a little bit more expensive but one more output !

[chromaniac]

The DXV codec is only for Resolume.
ok thx


I dident know that there where a limit to the outputs from resolume
Do you know how exactly how many output is it limited to ?


you might want to look into something like coollux for an "easy" all in one fix http://www.coolux.de/products/pandoras-box-server/

Ok thx ! I'll keep it in mind ! I think using this kind of tool could be too expensive for my mandatory !

[vjair]

The DXV codec is only for Resolume.



incorrect - its also supported in Ai and d3.

[alfaleader]

And to be 100% correct: the hardware acceleration only works in Resolume (and ai/d3?)

But I would take the datapath X4, a lot better then the tripleheads. We could work one time with the X4, and it's clear that it's a whole difference (professional gear <-> consumer gear). But we have also used the tripleheads a few times and it worked fine!

[sleepytom]

I've used the th2go a lot and it is *the least reliable* hardware device I've ever used!
Seriously for a device which should "just work" it has caused me countless hours of wasted time, it's also one of the devices I get cosistent random phone calls about from other people who can't get it to output properly or who want to hire a replacement as theirs has blown up!

Multiple output shows are hard enough without introducing tha randomness of a th2go!

[Anders]

incorrect - its also supported in Ai and d3.

Its my experience that render times in live vj`ing will never reach the popularity of non render times ;)

[vjair]

i genuinely dont understand what you mean

[chromaniac]

incorrect - its also supported in Ai and d3.

please VJair, what is Ai and D3 ?

[chromaniac]

I've used the th2go a lot and it is *the least reliable* hardware device I've ever used!
Seriously for a device which should "just work" it has caused me countless hours of wasted time, it's also one of the devices I get cosistent random phone calls about from other people who can't get it to output properly or who want to hire a replacement as theirs has blown up!

Multiple output shows are hard enough without introducing tha randomness of a th2go!

it looks you had really bad experiences with it !

[chromaniac]

Its my experience that render times in live vj`ing will never reach the popularity of non render times ;)

hu.... what ?! :jump2:

[PCProject]

please VJair, what is Ai and D3 ?

http://www.immersive.eu/ai/

[vjair]

http://www.immersive.eu/ai/

or www.avolitesmedia.com arran [@] avolitesmedia.com is me - immersive are an authorised seller and Ai is now owned being developed and supported by us at avolitesmedia ( dave green, myself and selvin )

[Anders]

No wonder you dont understand what i mean ! Thought Vj air was reffering to Adobe being able to play DXV :rolleyes: