All this talk about video scratching...

[ernasty]

Are there any good video scratching applications out there? Anything that can really zip the video forward and backward in real-time with the mouse (or trackball or DM2 or whatever)?

I'm thinking of writing a dedicated v-scratch app which locks down a big chunk of ram (non-virtual) and can play full screen video at ridiculous fast framerates, and switch direction on a dime.

Any interest?

I wrote a high performance video player for previewing film fx renders several years ago, and I'm pretty sure I can make a full screen high-res scratcher (but why reinvent the wheel). I also am sorry to say that I worked on the DM2 project for Mixman a few years ago. Wish I'd known you guys were reverse engineering it. I might know something about that code. ;)

[eyesupply]

I'd be pretty interested!
I can test the app on numerous systems and if I can assist in anyway, let me know!

Martijn

PS: try to make it MIDI compatible, I think it's easier to scratch with a slider then with your mouse. We do scratch videoclips in resulome (up to three layers at a time, but not high res)

[sleepytom]

there are a lot of solutions for slilently scratching video - most VJ software includes some kind of scratching

for audio visual scratching there is AVScratch! from the makers of VJamm ( www.vjammpro.com )

pete warden has made an app that runs on a fast ati card that allows you to scratch live camera input!

there is a genral problem though because a lot of the ways in which people scratch record involove very small movements - which don't really do much when mapped to video running at only 25 or 30 FPS - sure you can make it skip large chuncks but the fine control utilised by scratch djs to create new sounds has no direct relevence for (silent) video scratching.

[krezrock]

ms. pinky!!


http://mspinky.com/

[elbows]

The world definately needs more apps that can scratch video with sound.

[sleepytom]

the world needs more sound....

[quickSnail]

I've used VJO with the DM2 and the midi mapper to scratch video.
It works really well, but I don't use it live because VJO has a few shortcomings that make it unuseable for live shows.

I've also used the dm2 to scratch in flomotion.

[ernasty]

Originally posted by sleepytom
there is a genral problem though because a lot of the ways in which people scratch record involove very small movements - which don't really do much when mapped to video running at only 25 or 30 FPS - sure you can make it skip large chuncks but the fine control utilised by scratch djs to create new sounds has no direct relevence for (silent) video scratching.

I think several sensitivity sliders would need to be there. One slider would correspond to a device dependent scratch unit : a scratch unit might be a 10 degree turn of a DM2 turntable or FinalScratch. It might be a 10 pixel movement of the mouse. The slider would control the sensitivity of the device.

This would register to the other sensitivity slider, which would correspond to video movement per scratch unit. The scratch unit might register to three frames, or to 33 milliseconds, etc. The two sliders together will enable you to tailor the exact scratching factor to your needs.

Of course fractional frame movements will always be weird. We'll just round to the nearest frame I guess. It will take some testing , for sure.

Whenever I've seen video like: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/eyehear/demo_eyehear_512.wmv it looks pretty good. I wanna do that live. I don't care if it takes a minute to load and lock the video, as long as that's in the background. Not interested in scratching sound at the same time, though I guess it would be cool to register a sound file to video for DJ/VJ gigs (or in the studio).

Any other video scratch interface ideas?

So I'd like to play with all the v-scratch apps out there: so far I've got AVScratch!, MsPinky, VJO, Resolume, and Flowmotion on the list. I imagine Arkaos can do it too?

Thanks

[dlublin]

I know Dr. Jack @ Vidvox is sitting on a custom version of Grid that has some amazing scrubbing capabilities. Hunt him down, make him pancakes, and ask nicely and maybe he'll get around to releasing an update soon.

[therandelman]

Originally posted by sleepytom
for audio visual scratching there is AVScratch! from the makers of VJamm ( www.vjammpro.com )

pete warden has made an app that runs on a fast ati card that allows you to scratch live camera input!


WOW! scratching live input?
where can i download it (or a demo) to try it out?

And where can i try the AVScratch?
I could not find it on the vjamm site....

cheers,
da|randelman

[burstingfist]

The effect is called "TimeWarp" and it works with visualJockey, Transzendent, Resolume, vjamm, and any other app that supports Freeframe plugs. Get Pete's package at www.petewarden.com

[therandelman]

Originally posted by burstingfist
The effect is called "TimeWarp" and it works with visualJockey, Transzendent, Resolume, vjamm, and any other app that supports Freeframe plugs. Get Pete's package at www.petewarden.com

ah...okay, now i get it. thought, you were talking about some standalone app. thx.

what about the AVscratch?

[thomase]

I recently came across that plug. I just haven't figured out how it really works. can ne1 help?

[sleepytom]

Originally posted by therandelman
ah...okay, now i get it. thought, you were talking about some standalone app. thx.

i was talking about a standalone app - its very dev and will only run on the ati 9600 cards - but allows the most amazing performance - realtime effects on live input that only delay the video by one frame (ie as good as hardware DVEs / mixers) really nice pixle shader effects and of course the buffered scratching.

it hasn't been relesed and its not about to be - pete has been kidnapped by apple and doesn't have the time to develop his plugins atm - also the directxness of this app was thought to be a major disadvantage preventing future crossplatform versions - once openGL has caught up we might well see some intresting stuff appearing in this area

[elbows]

As far as Im aware you have to ahve the VJamm hardware dongle to use AVScratch, I never noticed a demo version, is that right Tom?

[sleepytom]

yep - there is no demo of avscratch

its a messy dev app that never really got finnished - its the scatching maths from DJamm with the addition of video.

it has a few diffrent controls that allow you to change the resolution of the scratch and some others that affect the way it sounds. but its far more of a test app than anything designed for real use.

(VJamm 3 is very likely to intergrate the full power of av scratch as well as a lot of other features from DJamm)

[dlublin]

Try demoing Vidvox Grid. RAM loaded clips scrub with great frame rates. Scrubbing works with the mouse.

http://vidvox.net/products/grid/index.html

We'll be releasing an update with more scrubbing / rate control shortly.

- Dave @ VIDVOX

[PiedPiper]

OMG, this is a major loss to all of us in th vj community.

hopefully he will still continue his work on the wonderful cross platform plugins he writes.

I wonder what he is doing @ apple, guess it's not really my place to go asking - i just hope he's writing it all in advanced openGL so it can be ported to windows/linux kinda easily...

[trotskythecat]

Fear not!

Pete is still highly active in the VJ community. He is currently working on porting Freeframe plugins and sizing up Los Angeles venues for live VJ work w/LAVA (Los Angeles Video Artists - an open group dedicated to bringing together VJs and content developers from all over SoCal).

Surya

[petewarden]

Tom's right, I'm at Apple now, but I am still trying to support the community through the Freeframe project. I've put my plugin work on hold for the moment, I'm concentrating on porting them and bug-fixing. One non-plugin project I've worked on for Freeframe is FreeChain:
http://www.petewarden.com/PeteFreeChain.exe

This allows you to wire together plugins, and save them out as new plugins that can be used in all the packages that support freeframe 1.0. It's undocumented, windows only, and very beta.

I've also just uploaded a new VisualJockey host for FreeFrame 1.0, at:
http://www.petewarden.com/pkgFreeFrame.fxp

Thanks for all your support, my boss spotted the 'OMG this is a major loss..' comment over my shoulder, which should help me at my next pay review. :)

Pete

[neoteo]

----------------------------------------------------------------

Any other video scratch interface ideas?

--------------------------------------------------------------

i spend some time thinking of this ... how can i scratch video .. something like final scratch ,, where you have a moving interface .. since video is moving frames ... but then a analog joystic would be fun ... but most important is what kind of video movement is related to what ... if this can be djustable ... like mouse sencivity ... direction ... the joystic as many combinations , analog positions ..

2 video scratch modes :

1 - in center is pause
2 - in center 25 FPS ...


:rolleyes:

[Linus]

hi

i had the sam idea abut an intuitive scratch interface like finalscratch for scratching video ....

i prefer a solution like finalscratch because it is the intuiteve vinyl timecode plate :jump: (im djing also)
and if you now native instruments Tracktor that is going to give support for the windows version of finalscratch you now its the best solution on win/*nix now on the market !!
(only a little bit unstable in hadrcore onstage unsing )

the best solution i think is to integrate some funktions like tracktor has for audio-mixing (filters,killswitches,looper-section,record-section,pitchcontrol,...)
so you can render longer clips or use mixed vcd?s or dvd?s ....

or what you think about the best scratching solution for video-mixing-scratching ??

regardz

Linus

[neoteo]

the best i think is to use the final scratch interface ... something like the new technics cd player .. conected to a computer .. and there goes DJ technique moving anythig you want ... music to video to 3d or what ever comes next ... and that analog precision of beat mixing is there ... :alien: :jump: :jump2: :jump: :alien:

[phluxm]

My Custom Software PHLUMX has super scratch facilities, it has a large visual timeline where you can scrape away to your hearts content, also has advanced speed features, cue points, loop point and even has features similar to DJ spinbacks & power-downs.

Ufortunately it's not availible to the public yet, but I am in the process of setting up business, and so should be availible in late 2004 to buy:)

If anyone wants to be kept upto date with err... updates email me at phluxm@psicon.co.uk.


NEW ADDITION TO MESSAGE *** PHLUMXv7.0b1 now online for testing @ http://www.psiconlab.co.uk

[monsho]

scratch tv and the EJ set up works pretty good, we've got a setup up here and it is a very intuitive thing to be able to get hold of a piece of vinyl and scratch your video.....

....and the new version of the software that Justin is cooking up sounds the bee's knee's!

http://www.ejenterprises.tv

http://www.scratchtv.com

[nommo]

Hey all...

I was in cardiff a year or so ago hooking up with plastic raygun, and they took me along to the hippo club where some guys were setting up for a gig. There were some AV bods there too - turned out they were from my old art skool in Newport...

Anyway - they were using this funky bit of pirate tech to scratch visuals via a turntable. On closer inspection it looked like a old infrared mouse had been butchered and modded to fit over the centre of the spindle on the platter of some 1210s, and was using software to track backwards and forwards using avi (or maybe mov... can't remember).

Turns out they are on tour:

http://www.plasticraygun.com/artists/dynamo.htm


Thought you might be interested....

Peaces
nommo

[VJamm]

That was how the origional AVScratch was used by Coldcut - they called it the Dextractor.

AVScratch is only on the dongle, but we've got an AVScratch MIDI controller in VJamm 2.5 Pro now though - and there is a demo version of this out:

Zipped exe only:
http://camart-downloads.com/vjamm/vjammlatestdemo.zip

Demo with some clips and FreeFrame plugins:
http://camart-downloads.com/vjamm/VJamm2521demoClipsPlugs.zip

General VJamm Downloads Page:
http://vjammpro.com/vjammpro/english/downloads.html

In some ways this is more use than AV scratch these days - because you can do a lot more with the integration into VJamm 2.

The MIDI VJamm AV scratch is often used with the DM2 scratch wheels.

Russell

[MoRpH]

Finally busted out the DM2 setup myself tonight (after getting the whole DM2midi project of the ground with pdoom over 12 months ago) went over a treat, pitty I had to use a P.O.S software like resolume to do it :/

[revjrbobdodds]

Originally posted by monsho
scratch tv and the EJ set up works pretty good, we've got a setup up here and it is a very intuitive thing to be able to get hold of a piece of vinyl and scratch your video.....

....and the new version of the software that Justin is cooking up sounds the bee's knee's!

http://www.ejenterprises.tv

http://www.scratchtv.com

There is a full page review of EJ MIDI turntable and ScratchTV in the new iDJ Mag, with Lottie on the cover.

[dubassy]

hey all,

i vj using premiere with all the clips rendered in the timeline, and using a graphics pen and tablet i can scratch back and forth over the timeline nice and smooth. as you can zoom in to make the timeline larger you can get really delicate.

for me its a more organic way to play, where i can really sync up with what the dj is playing, without relying on some other vj app that maybe plays clips in a more manual way.

dan>>

dubassy.com

[Retardia]

top notch thread

Through this thread alone I have been able to increase my knowledge on video scratching ten fold and contacts on linx are phantastikal.

I just wanna axe if anybody knows where I can get my hands on some sort of schematic for the optical mouse turntable dingy. I wish to pirate up my own.

someone has to have documented some sort of blueprint out there.

[JeSs]

Just realized a link to one of my videos has been posted, see it here :
www.eyehear.org (http://www.eyehear.org)
Click on the eye next to "sound system"

Just wanted to say that it isn't real video scratch. But it works well. Its an effect I built for pixelshox.
I send a video trough it and it just plays it back and forth to the beat of the music (using tap tempo to sync), but the video is still moving along. I have built other variations along the same basic technique, random looping of a section of the video stuff like that.
Never know it might give a few ideas to the serious developers ;)

[VJamm]

i vj using premiere with all the clips rendered in the timeline, and using a graphics pen and tablet i can scratch back and forth over the timeline nice and smooth. as you can zoom in to make the timeline larger you can get really delicate.
Yeah - I've seen quite a lot of people doing it like that - it's especially good if you don't need audio playback from the clips you are scratching.

One of the reasons why we developed AV Scratching was so that we can have the audio changing pitch like it does when you scratch a record, wheras in Premiere you get 'jump scratching' on the audio - ie. it never changes pitch, just plays out little chunks as you scratch around.

BTW please message me if anyone is keen to use the EJ scratch deck with VJamm 2

Salut ? travers la manche JeSs . J'aime le scratching .

Russell

[JeSs]

Ha content que cela te plaise Russel ;)
Ca fais plaisir de voir que tu te rappelle de moi. Vivement AVIT Birmingham, j'esp?re pouvoir te recroiser las bas.

[LEVLHED]

pro sound & stage lighting finally has the dvj-x1 in their catalog! of course they aren't actually in stock until end of june
here (http://www.pssl.com/bitemdetail.tpl?eqint_KeyIDdata=37458&UID=2004030512022078)