what does it take to be accepted?

[solly]

I was wandering what was the criteria to be accepted as a performing Vj at the AVIT in Brighton?

[LEVLHED]

first, I think meeting the deadline!

[mondo]

then having a good showreel i guess? with some biog about yourself and stills etc

[fALk]

There is big grief here in with the dis_zign guys who applied and got a reply that they have not been choosen. They have already booked a flight and are very very angry.

Also I am told that "I may play at a preclub set". So what happened to the mix fest where all VJs attending can play at? This is already shaping up in the direction "yours is longer then mine" by assigning certain vjs to a certain value. I am very very mad about this. Where is the spirit "all together"?

And another note about showreels:

I DO NOT DO SHOWREELS as they fail to capture even a glimpse on what is happening on stage. I have seen soo many good showreels but on stage all of the persons corresponding to the showreel either sucked bad in my opinion(had quite few) or where normal and did not something that was particular spectecular (and I am also taking about the "big" guys in our bussiness).


Before I go into to much bitching I want to state that I hate all this kind of elitism and the "your art is better then mine" attitude. Together with the award thread I get the feeling that this whole AVIT is going in the totally wrong direction. Where is the "we are all together against the rest" spirit? Even so I will get some kind of spot (in some preclubbing where I have no clue what or how this is as there is basically zero communication from the orgranizers about what will happen at all) I am very close to boycott. I do not want this bigger better fuck you attitude of capitalism take over our gratius group of people pulling on the same string.

Why are you not just let the people come over see how many of us are there and then let them play at the mix fest as in leeds? no biggo preplaning just anarchy. organised chaos. it will help to get a much better spirit within the community attending! There is NOONE BETTER THEN THE OTHER at least not what I have seen of the vjs around the world so far.

WE ALL SUCK!

And no I am not in the mood to comment on a "preclub set" for my "club visuals" (I hope someone can see a contradiction here). Most are coming over want to play together with other fellow vjs in front of a big crowd. This is what made leeds leeds and what made AVIT AVIT. I think there was big miscommunication in front up (or simple to little communication at all). Now splitting the mix fest in "preclubbing" (read second class) and "clubnight" and also EXCLUDING some people (who are as good or bad as all of us) is not the spirit and is a real reason not to come.
Then you can do awards choose who has the biggest and be happy. I for one stick to a community feeling and rather attend an OpenAirVIT with only 15 Vjs attending all beeing equally treated - then this shit.

:grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr:

[fALk]

PS: and who of you organizers is arrogant enough to give him/herself a voice to choose between good and bad art?

[elbows]

OK I can understand your frustration, but I ask you please to consider the reality.

1) We had far more than 100 applications to perform. Clearly despite a lot of people spending a lot of time, effort etc for many manymonths now, we cannot hope to get enogh venues and parts of the event to satisfy everyone.

2) Letting everyone just turn up is totally unrealistic for the following reasons:

a) We have to put performers details in the various brochures etc.

b) Some people wont come unless they are sure they can perform

c) We have to be organised, you cant run a multi-day multi-venue event without asssigning performers to different slots, it would be a total mess. There are other people to consider than the VJs, such as the venue owners, clubnight promoters etc, telling them were using an anarchistic approach will do nobody any favours.

d) We would just end up with people going mad anyway, we would just be delaying the decision as to whether they perfom till the event itself, and I know it would cause ugly scenes.

Really I support te idea of avit being as idealistic as possible, but we still live in the real world. I cant stand the fact that thousands of human hours have been spent already by avit organisers working behind the scenes, doing the best we can, trying to be fair and balance all the conflicting needs of people.

If theres one thing that could kill avit it is all the negativity, why? Why butcher us because we could not be perfect? Miracles are being achieved considering the lack of time, money & resources we are working with. Its esy to be idealistic when you dont have to get into the nitty gritty details.

I think we should have a good old debate about this issue right here and now, get it out of everyones system, because I havent watched lots of people I consider friends work their asses off so that people can turn round and have a go at us. Bu I dont want to silence debate about ral issues either, so do it now rather than at the event itself.

Also I would suggest that our methods should have been quite clear when people filled in the participation form, its not like we promised everyone in the world a slot and are now going back on our word.

I want to cry :(

[Lucidhouse]

Hi there Falk
You sound a bit pissed of
I take it you've recieved my email...

I also submited my work, but did not get accepted...by the way I and a whole lot of people that have seen my sets think that they kick ass!

Somehow I suspected that I might not get selected on the quality of my work alone, like most industries it comes down to whom you know and how big your mouth is most of the time...

Anyway I live in Brighton so I took it upon myself to find a space where I could show my work. Had a meeting with wellRed yesterday where we decided to incorporate the space under the
avit umbrela, various things will be happening there during the festival, as well as the awards thingie on sunday.

I would've also liked to join in the big jam, but it's the way the cookie crumbles...
:confused:

[wellREDman]

fals you have been scheduled to do a preclub thing because you sent this ....to us

As briefly talked about before we will come as complete crew from
good ol Berlin Germany... We are 5 persons (two rigging two vjs and a
dj) and it would be completely lovely if we could get a lounge, bar,
small club or the such for 2-4 hours (or a whole night). There we
would perform loungy visuals with loungy advanced electronic jazzy
brokn beatz to the delight of the audience who wants to chill talk
hang out and dance@w... If you have such a space on one of the
AVIT nights (even saturday if it still enables the two vjs to perform
at the mixfest) and would want us to perform there we would be overly
happy....
we bring all the backend including V4 video mixa... we would need
audio equipment (two mkIIs,audiomixa and something to make it loud
;), beamer and screen... so if all else fails we could bring a beamer
along if needed...

please let us know as soon as possible so we can make our travel
arrangements accordingly...


we went specifically hunting for a venue which would work with this idea , so why are you now turning on us for setting this up!!!

Preclub just means its gonna be early evening 8-11, rather than 11-2 club times it in NO WAY means second class, if anything its gonna garauntee yr stuff gets seen because you wont be competing with all the other vj's playing in all the other clubs on the saturday night. ppol can come see you guys, then go on to whichever club they want too

we are all putting in many many hours on this project, working with promotetrs and venue owners who are giving us the run around trying to make this event happen, and its very dispiriting having forum members turn on us because every little detail isnt just right

there were nearly 150 crews applying to play @ avit, and there was just no way we could fit everyone in. having to go though the submissions and trim the numbers down to fit into the 30 slots available @ the MassJam on friday, the 5 slots available in the AVroom on friday, and the 12 slots available in clubs around brighton on the Saturday night was a really hard and painful thing to do but there was no way we could avoid it.
at the last Avit there WAS a selection process, but it involved who could afford the pay-to-play policy neccesary to make it happen.this time (artscouncil funding permitting) we are not asking ppl to pay for their avit performance slots.

as has been stated several times, this AVIT is not about the gigs, its about the community coming together sharing skills, teaching each other and raising the industry profile, the gigs are very much a secondary part, and again the selection process reflects this with proirity given to those who are coming to AVIT to put something back into the community rather than just to massage their ego's by playing.
I understand that you have a problem with showreels falk, but you have to understand that submitting showreels is the standard way fro ppl to be able to see what your work is about, and your no showreel policy is a disadvantage that you volountarily put yourself in.
As it is you got a slot because you are giving a talk of some kind at avit (i dont know what cos im not on the daytime comittee).
We had to have some kind of selection criteria, and not submitting any kind of example of work was the main one.


As far as the Awards thread goes, if you read it i have been consistently trying to steer it away from any kind of "whos a better VJ" dick swinging, and towards a part tongue in cheek end of AVIT social gathering and part Send a message out to the music and product producing industry that VJing is coming of age thing.
I thought we'd reached a compromise on that that you were happy with, but obviously youre still harbouring resentment

If the community really didnt want an awards ceremony there would have been no positive reactions to the thread(which there were lots) and many more negative ones (only you) so we would have dropped it.

all of us in the AVIT comittees have put so much time and energy into organising this conference for no personal gain , but justfor the good of the community, and several of the brighton VJ's, myself includedhave given up their own residencies(and money) to enable others to play at avit.
so to encounter this degree of negativity and bad feeling from a prominent member of the community is nothing short of heartbreaking

You talk of boycotting AVIT, well that just makes me want to also throw my toys out of the pram and consider resigning from avit and no longer giving up every moment of my free time (as i have done for the last two months and will do up until the event) just to do something good for a community that i love.

[mondo]

whoa hold on
i dont speak on behalf on avit at all but in the uk, the scene is shifting fast enough for people/punters/promoters to take enough notice for us ALL to realise that we can actually make a living out of something we enjoy doing.


some of us oldies have been banging on for decades - and avit is definitely a good way forward(admittedly for some and not others)
leeds was leeds - that was then this is now - things change - if you want to have an anarcho jam (and im sure it will still happen in brighton) then either DIY or check out contact europe/other vj get togethers

and booking a flight b4 getting a gig is dumb - you will still have a good time whatever because we will all have a laugh anyway.
:love2:

[charlielangridge]

A calm and thought out answer:

This year there were far more applicants to play than last year. All of these aplicants were considered with equal bias. Show Reels are the accepted form of submision - they allow us to sort out types of VJ and the quality of work produced, not on artistic grounding, but on a professional light show. This allowed us to place the VJs that would best represent our community in the correct enviroments. If you did not get the gig you would have liked, don't take it as a personal attack or an attack against your art, we just could not place you this time. Everybody would have liked to have played in the mass-jam but think about it realisticly, we have a limited number of VJ points, so unless you want 5 min sets each, you can see that not everyone will be able to play in the mass-jam, including a large percentage of the AVITcore who are spending litterally hunderds of hours and hundreds of pounds to put these events on. I am now going to state, that I, charlie langridge, am spending at least 3 full unpaid days a week and a lot of my personal money to get this event working. I am not even going to be playing, because during the event I will be too busy co-ordinating the technial stabillity of the festival. You must now imagine how I feel when i have spent so long organising this, in the full knowledge that I can't play, to hear that somebody who we have specifically found a new venue (which means an awfull lot more tech complications for me and my team, a lot more hard work and a hell of alot extra work for the whole core group during the festival), doesn't want it. I am obviouly extremely upset and annoyed after this person specificaly asked for such an event.


If you didn't get a place to play at this years AVIT, still visit the event. It was after all created for you, by you and your peers. We have an Open Screen event at which everyone and anyone can play at. Also we have workshops - for you, discussions - for you, AV Nights - for you,and a lot more soon to be announced.

As a final note I'd just add that anybody who books plane tickets before they get a gig is not thinking, or (more realistically) they would come to the event anyway, please do not try and rally support against your festival in this way, because it just makes "your friends ;)" look bad.

[LEVLHED]

I'm not sure why the avit core is letting this juvenile tirade disturb them so much...clearly he's choosing to feel slighted because things aren't going according to his agenda, an agenda he formed without any basis in the reality of what AVIT Brighton 2003 is going to be...and although it shows a massive amount of disrespect to the people who really are doing all they can to make AVIT happen (again) and deserves an apology, I don't think you should let this influence you so much that you are actually considering throwing in the towel!

Falk, at least you have a slot SOMEWHERE..tell me how your post might sound to someone who DIDN'T get a slot at all?

and in the end, if you can't come to grips with the way things are being done, then maybe you should just boycott this and teach us all a lesson.

[Rovastar]

Wow this is a big issue. Although I am doing a workshop (I am sysygy I will be in touch, honest) I am not directly involved with the AVIT group the 'AVITcore'. Here is my take on it..........

Originally posted by fALk
There is big grief here in with the dis_zign guys who applied and got a reply that they have not been choosen. They have already booked a flight and are very very angry.


To be fair there AVIT is not totally about the playing. It is about the experience. THis disappointment no doubt is great but surely not everyone can play.

Originally posted by fALk
And another note about showreels:
I DO NOT DO SHOWREELS as they fail to capture even a glimpse on what is happening on stage. I have seen soo many good showreels but on stage all of the persons corresponding to the showreel either sucked bad in my opinion(had quite few) or where normal and did not something that was particular spectecular (and I am also taking about the "big" guys in our bussiness).

No shit I can agree with that. I do not think I have ever done a showreel. I perfer if the promoter sees my set live. It is all too easy as I have said before for people to just put they showpeice stuff on a showreel.

Sometimes you think someone has just one impressive clip of an eye or something and that is their set. (Someone will understand that one;):) )

Reminds me of the one-hit wonder people in the charts.

But realistically I understand that they have to start somewhere. And showreels are the most common method/media for this.

How else can they decided to any degree. VJ RandomMan from China wants to play he says he is really good in the application form in an email. In fact he is a bottom feeding theiving whore why just uses other visual artist work? How will you tell? (and I hope this is not the case here otherwise......................) With many people applying somehow you have to reduce the numbers.

I honestly cannot see another way of doing it.

Originally posted by fALk
Before I go into to much bitching I want to state that I hate all this kind of elitism and the "your art is better then mine" attitude. Together with the award thread I get the feeling that this whole AVIT is going in the totally wrong direction. Where is the "we are all together against the rest" spirit? Even so I will get some kind of spot (in some preclubbing where I have no clue what or how this is as there is basically zero communication from the orgranizers about what will happen at all) I am very close to boycott. I do not want this bigger better fuck you attitude of capitalism take over our gratius group of people pulling on the same string.

I really do not understand what capitalism is to do with this. The 'spirit' of AVIT is spreading visuals to the masses. I comunication it is true hasn't been as forthcoming as I would like.

To be fair there has been very litttle feedback too from the members side too when suggestions are called for.

It is not just about a giant visuals festival it is all about workshops and community too.

Originally posted by fALk
Why are you not just let the people come over see how many of us are there and then let them play at the mix fest as in leeds? no biggo preplaning just anarchy. organised chaos. it will help to get a much better spirit within the community attending! There is NOONE BETTER THEN THE OTHER at least not what I have seen of the vjs around the world so far.

WE ALL SUCK!


NOt planned. Organised chaos??!! That will really 'improve' the scene and the professionalism of it all.

Originally posted by fALk

And no I am not in the mood to comment on a "preclub set" for my "club visuals" (I hope someone can see a contradiction here). Most are coming over want to play together with other fellow vjs in front of a big crowd. This is what made leeds leeds and what made AVIT AVIT. I think there was big miscommunication in front up (or simple to little communication at all). Now splitting the mix fest in "preclubbing" (read second class) and "clubnight" and also EXCLUDING some people (who are as good or bad as all of us) is not the spirit and is a real reason not to come.
Then you can do awards choose who has the biggest and be happy. I for one stick to a community feeling and rather attend an OpenAirVIT with only 15 Vjs attending all beeing equally treated - then this shit.
:grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr:

I see the contradiction. ;)
I understand the difference between preceived club (the top VJ's) and preclub (the VJ's who don't make the grade) and these who are not performing at all.

And I too am curious shall we say about how the selection critera process.

But how do we do this if hundreds want to come?

Some VJ's cannot play.

I didn't even submit this year (due to many reasons) and too could have been rejected if I did and I would feel a similiar if not stronger way....but that is the nature of the beast that is AVIT. We cannot 'expect' to be there and perform.

I want to say a big up too all the AVITcore ppl so far. I know to some degree as I witnessed (and got involved with to some degree) the stresses and strains of last years AVIT so I know the work that goes into an event like this.

This is stilll new to all of use creating a AVIT VJ spectacular. Maybe things haven't gone as smoothly as hoped but ironicly, most of that is down to the success of VJC/AVIT so far. Talk about a double edged sword.

[Rovastar]

Originally posted by elbows

2) Letting everyone just turn up is totally unrealistic for the following reasons:

b) Some people wont come unless they are sure they can perform


ALthough I am fully behind the AVIT cause here and am fully benhind set times, etc for sets. I do always speak my mind and have to question this point elbows.

I think Red previously summed up this by saying something like playing at AVIT is not a right it is a honour or something.

I hope that people are not 'blackmailing' you in this way.

If anyone is saying 'I will only come if I can perform' this that is not a reason. If fact I would persoanlly not choose them for this reason.

I can only imagine a 'big name' will even suggest such a thing.

I do not want to be associated in this way with AVIT if it is being run that way.

Actually I want you to name and shame.

[holly]

I don't want to belittle Falk's complaints or under-glorify the AVIT"core", but this sort of complaint arises just before/after every AVIT. No one needs to be insulting or knocking the event. AVIT is a big mountain of squirming puppies. If you see a problem area then it is up to you to roll up your sleeves and lend a hand. There really is no elitism here as far as I know, and if all VJs sucked equally then what does it matter who plays when, or if you play at all? If it was a capitalist issue then wouldn't the real complaint be VJ SpecialPants is getting paid MORE than me...?

Quitcher bitchin and make new visuals to blow everyone's minds.

[randomFX]

Falk, please tell the dis_zign guys that AVIT now has laptop jams (http://www.laptop-jams.com) on board, so if they perform using laptops, then they (& you) would be more than welcome to join in...

...actually, you pretty much summed it up when you said "no biggo preplaning just anarchy"

------------
randomFX

[murph]

Originally posted by Rovastar
If anyone is saying 'I will only come if I can perform' this that is not a reason. If fact I would persoanlly not choose them for this reason.

I can only imagine a 'big name' will even suggest such a thing.

haha, reminds me of a few people who showed up to AVIT NA, could not be bothered to help out, and whined about not being treated like superstars and left without playing. Oh well, their loss.

AVIT certainly wasn't about playing for me, though that was kind of exciting, it was about meeting people and drooling on cool gear and discussing new techniques and being inspired.

[syzygy]

Others have made most of the points that I want to make, so I won't bother repeating them.

I just wanted to say to those who are getting angry about all this (especially falk) to have a think about whether the critisms you are making are really fair.

Many of the people who have given a _lot_ of their own time to put this event together are not going to get to play the set that they would really want to play (either because they will be busy organising stuff at that time, or because we needed to make more space for others)

My personal view is that anybody who only cares about _their_ performance needn't bother coming to AVIT - I don't want to see you there. I'd rather spend the 4 days with 50 people who genuinely want to learn from each other than 200 prima donnas who only see AVIT as an opportunity to get some screen time.

Boycott away.

Dan.

[syzygy]

Originally posted by Rovastar

I hope that people are not 'blackmailing' you in this way.

If anyone is saying 'I will only come if I can perform' this that is not a reason. If fact I would persoanlly not choose them for this reason.


I think you misunderstood elbows somewhat there rova - he didn't mean that people have demanded a set or they won't come - he meant that some people want to know in advance whether they will be playing (and what sort of set they will be playing) before they book flights and arrange to cart their equipment to the event.

He was pointing out that some preorganisation is needed rather than saying that there is any sort of balckmail going on.

Dan.

[Lucidhouse]

Originally posted by murph
AVIT certainly wasn't about playing for me, though that was kind of exciting, it was about meeting people and drooling on cool gear and discussing new techniques and being inspired.

That's fine if you into gadgets, mingling and stuff, personaly I want to show my work couse thats what it's ment for. I want to expose people to visual music and amplify their scences. I will take the avit opertunity to promote myself because I would also like to make a living from this emerging artform and in tern I will be able to produce more content and improve my shows.

There's more to it than just taking part man, If we want people to take our artform more seriously then we should avoid to much hippyness. Stuff it! I get the feeling we are mostly downplaying the visual side of things, why? :eek: :confused: :eek:

[charlielangridge]

Prehaps you should re-read the mission statement and learn what AVIT is about as opposed to using it a personal publicity event.

[elbows]

I dont think its a case of downplaying the visuals, but rather looking to emphasise and make the most of whats different about avit.

By this I mean that if I was purely interested in people seeing my visuals, I would be interested in finding a gig for myself that had the largest possible audience. If I thought avit was that, and I was only interested in using it for that purpose, then I wouldnt think Id got the right end of the vibe-stick.

Now Ive nothing against people getting whatever they like from the avit experience, so long as its in keeping with the event and community as a whole. People can sneer about hippyness etc if they like, but the bottom line is that here is the community of vjcentral and vjforums putting on a community event. Members of the community put stuff in, people get stuff out of it. Its wrong to label that as being a hippy-thing, its a "humans as a socialable animal" thing, it isnt limited to one political idealogy or perception of life. Theres a balancing act, communities work best when things are mutually beneficial.

There is no such thing as equality. Some people will put in hundreds of hours of work and see very little direct and obvious self-promoting gain from it. Others may do little and will in return gain much, they might make a contact that catapults their careers. Theres no formula for avit that could produce a perfect fair and just system, nor is it possible for avit to be what everyone seeks or what everyone thinks is the best way to further the lot of VJs in general.

There are not two people on the planet who share exactly the same expectations for this avit. If people decide to build in their minds a vision of what avit will be and what it will do/mean to them then thats fine, but avit does not deserve to be branded evil when it fails to be the avit you thought it was. If we have said something that has lead to inflated expectations for some people, then help avit by specifically showing us where we went wrong and were unintentionally misleading. I cant see what else avit could reasonably be expected to do when faced with such criticism as has been dished out today.

Ideally the community at large would directly and openly shape every decision, but the reality is that every little decision (and there are many thousands of them) cannot be taken by a huge and ever changing group of people. As is, a core of somewhere between 10-20 people have put together this years avit uk, with help and feedback from the wider community, and quite literally millions and millions and millions of words have flown around, so much care has been taken to try to "do the right thing" with every decision. Its actually worked well, and Im sure these structures will evolve and change in the future as time moves on and it is possible to formalise and systemise some of the regular tasks that go into putting on an avit event.

Eventually its intended that what we have learnt whilst planning avit uk Leeds and now avit Brighton, and what others learnt from avit na and openairvit, will be assembled into a kind of "resource kit" that may aid community members around the world in putting on their own avits or avit-like events. If nothing else then looking on the bright side this thread should be a useful component of the resource for how to deal with dissapointed participants.

[Lucidhouse]

All points taken.
But frankly any veejay or the like who wants to promote their work should feel free to do so without the undertones of being, self centred and not contributing, after all people are promoting their hardware and software no one's frowning at that, avit is a community linked to an industry and whomever is doing good work , technical or creative is contibuting to it, no problem.

[charlielangridge]

Lucidhouse - AVIT is not a platform for personal financial furtherment. It is a place to learn, create, discuss, make friends and forward the industry (and a lot more). A place for VJs to get together and show the public what VJing is and what it can become. If you're only comming to show promoters how "good" you are prehaps you have chosen the wrong event and/or shouldn't be playing at avit. I really dont want to see a set comprised entirely of self advertising!

[unjulation]

right i've kept quite on this one just to see how it developes and wether it can sort its self out but hay, just a few points that spring to mind

1) the chaos that was leeds might have been fun to be part of but from an organisational side it could have been done a hell of a lot better, no dis on anyone's part bar my own, if you knew how i origionaly thought it would go then no one would be saying that it was a free fall space, i come from a theater space origionaly and the way i do a lot of work is based upon that aprouch, and if you know how theater works then anachy has no place within it

2) leading on from this i think elbows has two very good points re-the organisation and how it needs to be run

3) self premotion is cool, and part and parcel of avit is the space to publisie your self, that should not be ignored, a lot of the work that i have done over the last year has been from a direct result of being involved with avit, so i realy dont think that it has no place within it (sorry charli just reed your post and personaly we need to acept that it is part of the reason that some peeps get involved but its not the sole perpose or the esance of avit)

4) i'd agree with red by saying we could have put more info/disscusion out but like he said when we did not meny peeps responded at all so if you don't want to to give an imput then dont complain about it latter

5) avit is all about the visuals but it encompases the whole process that starts at conception and ends with the gig its self and all the things in-between

6) personaly i think that holy hits the nail on the head with if you dont like it, do something about it within avit, it is very open, more so then most festis that i know of

anyway i have had my little rant and i do find it a bit of a shame lucid that you feel so pissed with the whole thing but you acn always give surgestion etc at anytime pats present or future

[Lucidhouse]

oooh dear !
I'm obviosly not against the avit setup, I think it's great.

But let's not be hippocrits there's lot's of people that are going to avit for self promotional purposes as well as social.
As I've said before some software and hardware developers will use avit for financial furtherment and theres nothing wrong with that, they need to sell their product so as to finance better versions and make a living.

For example theres a group of veej's/video artist showing their work in a gallery during the festival, and I sugest you go see it, but is that selfish of them? I don't think so they're promoting our artform, contributing aestheticaly and energeticaly to avit and at the same time making contacts for themselves.

:nod::mad::nod::mad::nod::mad: :nod::mad:

[elbows]

Well said Unj :)

Yeah I mean I wasnt saying that people should expect no personal gain out of avit, but I cant say enough times the phrase mutually beneficial. The most abbreviated description I could ever give for avit is "if its not mutually beneficial, its not in keeping with avit".

People who perform at avit are supposed to get something out of it, even if in some cases that means "only" the joy of performing in front of an audience.

Its incomplete to say that software & hardware companies are getting self promotion out of the event without being frowned upon, as if thats a one way deal. Where AVIT deals with the business world, it deals with business in the accepted way for capitalist societies. Avit gives and takes in all formats, whether it be money, time, expertise, sharing a beautiful performance, teaching, lsitening, debating, dancing, publicity, etc.

More to the point, there is a danger that this thread may have flirted occasionally with the notion that performers are somehow being accused of selfish usery of avit, and this isnt true. The performance itself is after all the centre of this visual world, and I for one am most looking forward to the performances that I see at avit. I may dribble over the tech, but I hope to stare in awe at many of the sights that I will see on them screens over all the days and all the venues. Its things like avit that make me wish I was 5 people so I could see it all.

It would indeed be perverse and a tragedy if an event created by the performers turned into something that favoured other parts of the chain and almost treated the performers with disdain. That wont happen here, I assure you, how can it when those who are trying to sort the details are performers themselves?

So taking a step back I dont honestly think that many of the paths this thread have led us down are true of avit brighton 2003. Its good to talk about them, to light them up so we all avoid them happeneing. In this particular thread I think we are seeing a rather more specific phenomenon, which is quite understandable.

Assuming everybody who filled in a participants form was a human being, I might assume that they all felt a real sense of anticipation, expectations of what will be. There is nothing wrong with being upset if an answer comes back after a long wait and it is not the news you wanted to hear. It has emotional implications, and so many other factors dictate how you will handle them. Its not for me to say that the way people respond is wrong I guess, but I feel the need to defend avit and to seek out all the phenomenon at work and point at them and go look its all complex, its all so human.

My god can I waffle on or what! :p

[wellREDman]

Originally posted by Lucidhouse
I get the feeling we are mostly downplaying the visual side of things, why? :eek: :confused: :eek:

no you misunderstand

it is all about visuals

we are downplaying the gigging side in favour of the educational side .

this avit is about teaching, and sharing skills and knowledge with each other, and the general public
the main focus is the conference, with its workshops, demo's and panel discussions.
thie gigs is a just something were doingn in the evening cos we happen to have the creme of the worlds vj's in brighton for the weekend for the conference

we are have applied for a lot of funding from the artscouncil from an educational direction, and that is what were putting together.

the artscouncil are not funding any of the gig side, that has to be wholly self funded, and let me tell you that side of things is spread VERY thin.

and as for the soft/hardware etc. ppl that are coming to avit to sell stuff, we'll they are PAYING for that privelidge.
maybe if youre wanting to use AVIT just as a self promotional vehicle you'd like to cast your eye over our sponsorship package?

this is neither a hippy, or an anarchistic event, it is a measured and serious symposium on Visual Arts ,
but it is a COMMUNITY event, and therefore the focus is on the COMMUNITY and not individuals, and cartainly not a not a place for Grandstanding.

If the likes of Kriel, Micha Klien, and Addictive TV can understand and be happy with this focus, i find it sad to think that any VJ NOBODY wants a bigger slice of any percieved glory.

[PilotX]

Originally posted by wellREDman
no you misunderstand

it is all about visuals

we are downplaying the gigging side in favour of the educational side .

this avit is about teaching, and sharing skills and knowledge with each other, and the general public
the main focus is the conference, with its workshops, demo's and panel discussions.
thie gigs is a just something were doingn in the evening cos we happen to have the creme of the worlds vj's in brighton for the weekend for the conference

we are have applied for a lot of funding from the artscouncil from an educational direction, and that is what were putting together.

thankyou red, once again you took the words out of my mouth.
for me avit is about promoting vjing as a whole. not one vj, but all vjs. including those who cannot make it over, or don't get to perform. It's about educating ourselves, creating a stronger community and having some fun. It's taken me a while to respond to this thread, mostly because others have said what I wanted to say. if anyones in doubt about the nature of avit, re-read holly's post please. (I particularly liked your squirming puppie analogy :) )

tom

[wellREDman]

yeah squirming puppies that yap in your ear, shit down your shirt and eat you out of house and home

:)

Cmon people this is supposed to be a positive event , there is way too much negativity and ego going on here.

Im in a more positive mood myself now, yesterday i was on the point of throwing it all in and walking away because i felt like all the work i'd put in to both this and last years avits was all wasted on a bunch o whiners, but now i think fuck it, ill keep slogging away for the benefit of those who ARE team players, and if others want to try and take advantage of us to further their own careers at the expense of the comunity as a whole, well, thats their Karma

[Lucidhouse]

i think there's misunderstandings all round, my point is that I'm promoting the easthetics of veej'ing if some of you guys feel threatened that's your problem, it's what i do best so i'm not going to hide in some dark corner and keep quite about it, and by the way I'm helping to organise the preclub spot and i want it to Kick Ass, so i'ts not like I'm just going to lay about ....

I think you guys have put something good together and I congratulate you, but it doesn't seem as open as you'd like people to think, anyway I'm sure I'ts going to be a great!

cheers


:nod: :) :( :( :o :D :D :rolleyes: :cool: :cool: :P ;) :mad: :eek: :confused: :nod: :o :D :rolleyes: :cool: :confused: :P :alien: :love2: :nod: :nod: :mad: :mad: ;) :P :( :) :o :cool: :confused: :rolleyes: :D :help: :zzz: :nod: :nod: :mad: :eek: :P ;) :) :scared: :love: :love:

[holly]

Hey Lucid. I'm totally supporting you on your mission to teach aesthetics. Been to your webby and thought your look is ace! Just a little forewarning though, for many vees it's not about what's on the screen, but a lot of socializing and fun and playing with lappies ? and I don't mean just AVIT but VJing in general! We do these EyeWash parties and it really is a social event more than a showcase (I would rather have a showcase...) and I work hard on my look and my vids and rehearse (gasp) while honestly most vees show up and just twaddle their settings without a second thought to structure or composition.

I'm just saying this because I sympathize with you, but try not to get too caught up in changing the world. All you can do is show your style and say thanks when someone compliments your effort. You can't force vees to quit their jobs and spend 100% of their time working visuals, or pour their honest heart and soul into something that is more of a fun relaxing hobby. For many, AVIT will be their only gig this year, if not their first gig ever. It will take years of a consistant scene to see which way the boat is turning and who's style will hold influence.

Also, in a baby scene like VJing there are bound to be plenty of tantrums, egos and poopy daipers. Plus the occaisional melt your heart smile. We haven't been around enough to learn how to compliment each other, support each other, or even be professional to each other. So to that I say TRY HARDER, People!

Ok, that's it. Have a great AVIT everyone. Brighton's the biggest ever!

[Lucidhouse]

thank you Holly,
I think you've put it all into perspective very nicely.
:sun:

[vjnixmix]

This is very natural of course and a part of all things big to have unhappy people. It is oh so hard to please everyone!

I just want to comment being that I can relate to both sides here....

I sacrificed my social life for a good part of a year to make the first AVIT NA happen. I tried very hard to rally support and help and in the end I was quite disgusted with what ended up falling on me to take care of - I almost seriously went crazy. I definately have a love-hate relationship with AVIT - It has been a serious personal battle for me to fight for what I believe - even when other people demean the work I have put in. I am still flying to Brighton to support the cause... I bought tickets as soon as the date was confirmed, I would have it no other way - as I wonder if Destiny is stronger than will.

I just want to bring to light for everyone that doesn't plan events or might not understand the blood, sweat and tears these people put into this. We all try very hard to be fair and handle things appropriately. Please just consider when you are getting angry or considering boycotting AVIT that the people making this happen are not getting any glory or money or prizes for making this happen. They are in fact making HUGE personal sacrifice for a community that they believe in. I many a time tried to throw in the towel ... I was so stressed I couldn't even function in my normal life - and many a time those in the community talked me out of it and reminded me of the importance of community, unity and making things happen for the better of this art.

Avit is not only about showing off, it is about supporting your scene, your community and the people behind it. it is about being inspired by other people's work AND it is about learning how to better you own.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE ... think of every aspect and every person that made this possible before you knock it.

[fRED]

most of the places in the world are for battle, sometimes and especially when your a baby scene you need places to relax and reflect yourself.

avit for me is the second. and if you let the competition grow you build up borders between the pros and the amateurs. i want to come there to learn and to share knowledge and experiences. i am not intrested in worshipping the cool guys.
everybody should get the possibilitiy to show the best he can, but when his motivation is to win the cup, or to sign the big contract, we should search for another type of event.

ps: the showreel discussion is cool, i can produce hours of live visuals but i had never been able to produce a showreel.
how do you put a long and inspiring night with good music and a nice partycrowd into one minute.
i am not sure if there is a workshop, but if i should visit this.

[fRED]

sorry i forgot to worship the organisers (i mean what i say, i did something comparable a year ago.)
i think the discussion should not attack the engagement of people, it should give vjs the possibility to find out how they want to work together

[murph]

I'd just like to add that I've seen artists and technicians performing at events with me that had this real hard-line attitude towards the promoter like "they promised me only RED M&M's! THESE are MIXED!" or just not being accomadating or expecting to be pandered to, and it strikes me very clearly that these people have never organized an event.

Putting a show together of any sort is a much more incredibly large task than can be fathomed from the outside, even as part of the staff. Then add handling a bunch of VJs, who are all used to running the show visuals-wise, and trying to tell them to do things, and trying to make decisions in an efficient manner, well it's a bit of a task, and there's just no time for whiners.

It sounded like the biggest problem from last year has been solved, the problem of disorganization and anarchy, so for that I applaud the current organizers. The casualty of this is that not everybody gets to have the exact event they envisioned, and not all of the insane number of people who would like to can perform. That wouldn't have been possible at leeds, either.

[unjulation]

lol tell me about it mate :)

[Amukidi]

Well I'm sure (hope) I speak for by far the majority when I heap praise and adulation over the organisers - its like putting on a very large production (film, theatre etc) and I know from experience how this sort of thing can suck you in totally. As for the very few dissenters - fuck 'em - some folks would moan in Paradise! AVIT will become a household name (if it already isn't) among people in the business and all your hard work will not have been unappreciated. This is a bit like having kids - fucking hard work, but well worth it! Fantastic!

[mondo]

hear hear amukidi
keep up the good work avit/avitcore
the vj community supports you

[labmeta]

I haven`t commented on this so far, but i`m just thought i`d chip in some "looking forward to event day" comments

I`m really glad for some positive comments, this thread has made me feel real sad this week, so thanks to all the defenders of the cause. You do make my, and the rest of avitcore's frantic workaholic schedule all worth it:) Although its really harsh that we are having to defend ourselves so aggressively.

I for one am really very excited about this next one, although we might not have talked with people as oftenly as we should i really think you`ll find it to be something quite special and a major development of the idea so far. . I will be making time to do some major website updates this week so you will be able to get a better idea of what is happening when and where so perhaps you can all get as excited about this as me and also hopefully reveal why we have all been soooooo busy.

so despite the attacks and encouragement all contained in this thread i hope we will have in some way gained the support of the community on event day, even if not everybody is a part of it n the way they wanted, it really is going to be full of goodness but only if all of you people come and make it so.

There will be many many more AVIT`s and many more years in which to develop the idea - AVIT really is a work in progress, so if it`s not right in your eyes please talk with us nicely and we can improve it for the beter of everyone within the realm of practicalities and financial constraint.

Here`s looking to what i`m sure will be an incredible weekend.
Paul

[Lara]

I'm so excited I'm so excited I'm so excited . . . I also heap praise and adulation on the AVIt organisers, they are really breaking their backs to create something amazing. I think that the way AVIt can be percieved is wrong- that it is just all about who you are and who you know that is RUBBISH!

When Red asked for input on the workshops/talks/discussions I replied with my own personal interests- (narrative) and the people also interested in this replied to the post, we chatted and Paul had the excellent idea of having a 'narrative lab'. So there from nothing, a really exciting and progressive thing has come about with much enthusiasm. We all know that narrative is something not everyone's going to like but so what? AVIt is allowing those in the community with similar interests to hook up and share ideas/theory and offer help, advice and support.

I think AVIt is amazing in the fact that it not only screens visuals but talks about them critically, technically, educationally, culturally and loads of other words like that. To see this is a 'sidelining' of visuals is just as subjective as my personal interest in narrative. Lets all be fluffy, gracious veehs with a belief in our works that means the details we mightn't like just don't matter. :biggrin: :sun: :up: :cheers: :pint: :queenofhe

[fALk]

Defense line open:

It was not about me so much (as I did get a gig assigned in the preclubbing) but about the diz_sign guys who are a little frustrated to say the least as they got the notion that everyone applying is gonna play (ala leeds as more then one time stated in the diskussions) and where preparing for this trip. And whoever dumbass said that getting a plane ticket before the gig is "confirmed" is stupid - I want to remind you that we pay for the planetickets out of our own pockets and that flying from berlin you had to be very early to get any flight to heathrow running under 300 euro. The dis.zign guys booked the flight because it was an offer with much less then this but still an amount of money.

Setting aside all the personal stuff and people knowing me will hopefully hop in my defence that its not about me but was a general statement ala the awards thread:

What I really do not like about this years avit is the total lack of information from the "inside" strange "core" group that noone knows what it is why it is or how it is. There is simply nothing a foreign vj can do then book the flight two month before (to get any reasonable pricing) and the general notion was that anyone can play who applies.
Heck I even know some of you and I still did not know that space is tight this year.
Why all the secrecy?

And my MAIN concern in all this is that there was some "choosing" for slots. And this "choosing" was done without involvment from the puplic (us)... There is still no hint on how this choosing was done and who was choosing. All or noone! And fuckin showreels are not gonna cut it see below for a heartbreaking story of why a lack of showreel does not mean bad vj.

I am very sad the direction AVIT is taking this year - first the awards idea and now this. I personally can not identify with the public part of it anymore. It was about us now we bow down before the manager again we try to make the dj comfortable and we have some people feeling in charge of all other vjs. that is the worst direction this can take :(
I rather perform with 10 of you in some dirty basement then with 100 of you with this spirit in some shiny record industry approved club where the dj is still the center of gravity and the promoter and production manager is in charge.

On a side note I want to post a little story about OpenAirVIT:
There were those italian VJ/DJ group who send me a mail just shortly before OpenAirVIT (a day or so). They said they have never performed before but would be happy to come over to make the premier of their first piece. I told them that it might not worth the long travel and that it will be a very small thing, yet they persisted and on saturday they where standing in front of our tent. So I gave them a slot on the night and they performed. What they have shown was something completely different then anything I have seen before. It was a narrative in the VJ realm all fine and working (something I have not seen before that worked so well). They did not have a showreel they did not have any "references" with big star djs or the like - they just came over and performed and have blown away (imnsho) all others performing. Sadly it seems that they will not come to Brighton as they did not get a spot as well and its not worth for them traveling this long distance just to meet a few others. They also do not know what else they could get out of it other then the performance.

I would like the "Core"groupers to make the performance schedule puplic for discussion as soon as possible. I would like a reason why they have choosen vjx over vjy. I want transperancy for all others because if you have not noticed it is US who will make this a succes or not. thank you.

It would also help to put out some text to explain what else a vj could get out of brighton other then the performance. Some of us still have the illfated shuddering thoughts of a big table in a very noisy mall with a bunch of totally sleepy vjs (me included again) showing off some software that you can download from the net. (ok its harsh but this is what is left in my memory from the other side of leeds - taking the mixfest out of the equation)

[LEVLHED]

cute story falk, but I don't think AVIT Brighton can afford to make a gamble like that...booking an act w/ no showreel! In fact I insist that they don't make that gamble because we all ned avit to grow.
and I don't get why you're sooooo disrespectful of your peers? You think any of them are seriously standing on some high tower passing judgement on everyone? You don't think that if the core COULD let everyone play they would? Do you really think that they are willing to put every decision they've made back up here for review and discussion? You're nuts.

I understand why your mates booked their flights, but I don't see how their misconception of how this avit would be run this year is anyone elses problem.

seriously, if you can't get your head around how this is going to go, boycott this and teach us all a lesson. If you'd REALLY rather play at another openairvit instead of brighton avit, then DO IT!!

[evomedia]

Falk there are lots of people who didn't make the cut, none of them are complaining about it, tickets booked or not. Most people not playing are still happy to meet, socialise and learn what is happening in our world.

I dont like self rightousness at the best of times, there is so much work put in by the guys who organise this they dont need any more stress.

You've got the tickets, just come have a drink watch some video and chill out for a few days.

But if you think the only worthwhile thing about AVIT is if you play then why come at all? You can your stuff back home

[charlielangridge]

Originally posted by fALk
diz_sign guys who are a little frustrated to say the least as they got the notion that everyone applying is gonna play


This year many more people applied to play than last year. The number of available places physically didn't allow for everyone to play. As with any major festival, aplying doesn't guarantee a place.

I want to remind you that we pay for the planetickets out of our own pockets and that flying from berlin you had to be very early to get any flight to heathrow running under 300 euro. The dis.zign guys booked the flight because it was an offer with much less then this but still an amount of money.

We are aware of the variation of travel costs, however, applicants were informed of when they would be be told if they were playing. We also expect VJS to be commming to the festival regardless of whether they are playing or not.

What I really do not like about this years avit is the total lack of information from the "inside" strange "core" group
We have acknowledged peoples requests for more information and have been providing it as soon as it is confirmed. The AVIT UK core group stands to organise the festival, growing on the past experiences of AVIT UK 02 and from input from the community. We have been posting several threads about what you would like and have had some good answers. The core is their as an organising "core" - it would be a logistical nightmare and practically imposible to organise things on the scale we have if there was no form of organisational hub.

And my MAIN concern in all this is that there was some "choosing" for slots.
The selection process was worked out on submission of information and show reels. Applicants were placed into events that they specified their visuals would work well in. From there, they individuals were selected on there work. The only way we could define between 2 VJs who say there work is good tho none of the selection commitee have seen it, is showreels. AVIT UK events will be putting on the best VJs in the world. If nobody has ever seen the work how can we possibly use it? Showreels on the whole are not fun to make, but if you are a VJ you should have or be able to source the equipmnet to make one. If you can suggest a better form of applicant submission for next year please do!

I rather perform with 10 of you in some dirty basement then with 100 of you with this spirit in some shiny record industry approved club where the dj is still the center of gravity and the promoter and production manager is in charge.
AVIT is about education, meeting people and having fun. Wit only 10 people in a dirty basement it would be none of these things! The venue we are using for the Mass Jam is not a "shiny record company approved club" and who really cares if it is! The are shiny and approved because people enjoy these clubs an pay money to go to them - this seems like an anarchical statement gone wrong. The DJ is not the centre of any of the AVIT events and production managers are there for a reason! If you don't know the reason, why dont you organise a gig with out one? Oh, yep, thats right, you would be the production manager! On an event of these scale there is somebody needed to take on this role and make sure things run smoothly and everything happens on time and everybody gets to have fun.

So I gave them a slot on the night and they performed. What they have shown was something completely different then anything I have seen before. It was a narrative in the VJ realm all fine and working (something I have not seen before that worked so well).
That was kewl of you, but you still dont seem to understand that their is not enough time during the festival for all of the applicants to play a set (unless it's 10 mins long at which point it becomes fairly pointless!) Im sure these guys are great, but why havent they made a copy of this set? the could have sent it to us on pretty much any format - u can't seriously tell me that they dont have a VHS player knocking arround somewhere or a friend they could borrow one from?

I would like the "Core"groupers to make the performance schedule puplic for discussion as soon as possible.
We are endevouring to do so, so plese keep watching the boards and www.avit.org.uk

it is US who will make this a succes or not.
This is so true, the VJs and the community will make this a success.

It would also help to put out some text to explain what else a vj could get out of brighton other then the performance.
If it's just performing you are after, then why are you applying? Are you unable to get gigs anywhere else? AVIT is about the performance aspect, but it is about soo much more than that! It is about learning software and hardware, not just from an instruction manual, but form the guys and girls who esigned and built it and from the guys who use it every day! It is about discussing points that are relevant to us, with people on both sides, with professionals and with people from outside the industy. It is about learning in detail how to produce great work, how to fuse technical knowhow and artisically ability (that we all have or can learn) to forward our industry. It is about pople who have never VJed before or event considered it, learing about it so they can do it too. Amongst the hundreds of other things avit is about, it is about community. It is about the thousands of VJs who all congregate onlinve meeting face to face, discussing things, and sharing a great event with thousands of others who they know so well from the community.

Together people, and only together will we achive the AVIT you want, so do tell us what to do and if you want to join the "core", there is nothing stopping you! Infact there have been instructions on www.avit.org.uk since the site was launched last year!

I can personally asure everyone that AVIT UK 03 will be an amazing experice, great fun for everyone and everyone will gain from it. If you falk or anybody is upset for any reason, do contact us directly, so we can sort it out, instead of trying to create this flame war which will hurt both parties.

[Rovastar]

fALk,

I am confused about what your 'solution' to this is.

You raise multiple issues yet no answers. IT is easy to slag off people but not as easy to suggest a solution that please the same amount of people let alone more people or everyone. Esp if you consider the varing viewpoint for the new, evolving VJ community movement.

The 'awards' thing. Well there is a whole thread about that I for one am strongly behind this to give our 'industry' a more professional outlook. I do understand taht others but of teh one thing we all agree that VJ will be more popular in say ten years than it is now. I think it will need to have a more 'professional' outlook to it all. What estbalished 'industry' DOESN'T have awards.

I want to see AVIT a sponsered event where they/we have money to fly in VJ's from all across the world.

But as I said there is another thread for that.

The 'community' aspect of it is still there. What do you think all the workshops, etc are for?!?!

Just because it has not gone to your liking it does not mean it has gone to pot. There will be no doubt more for more people this year. I am wanting to do a workshop/seminar/whatever with many members of the visualization community past and present. Probably not your cup of tea but no doubt the millions of people around the world that enjoy them would like something. Expanding teh scope from teh maybe sheltered mindset of what some VJ's think it will be about.

Next year I whole like to see realtime demos group do workshops/talks/shows/etc next year and tap into there expert knowledge.

But the sounds of your post you seeem only to be interested in playing/performing.

I have expressed my concerned and curious with the showreel stuff and how the people are selected (why the silence?!) but like I said previously what other options are there. How would YOU pick them?

You get 100+ entries from all over the world. How do you pick them. From how far they are away? How many big clubs they have done? How many left wing eco warrior events or free parties they have done? What 'style' they are?

How would YOU do it?!?

[wellREDman]

falk im really dispirited by your negative attitude ,

Ok so maybe we have been too busy to make as much of whats been going on public as perhaps we should have done, but calling it a TOTAL lack of information is going way too far.

the things we have posted, especially the questions about what people want . have recieved very little feedback from the community.

there has been no secrecy, only too few ppl to do too much work , and maybe a little bit of misprioritising


From your post it seems like you havent actually read any of the posts weve made about what were planning to do,

if you had youd know that the list of people who make up the avitcore has been published here ages ago. (and no im not gonna waste my time going to find it and posting a link, you have a look, you might find out a bit more about avit that way)and that several times weve asked for more ppl to volounteer to jion in and help

also if you had you'd know that this avit is not about ppl massaging their ego by performing , its about
VJs coming together to teach each other and non vjs, , about sharing skills and learning new ways

if you had youd know that were laying on 2 rooms full of computers, and full half day workshops in all the softwares ppl have asked for, as well as dedicted spaces for practical workshops such as rigging and camera skills.
and separate discussion areas for panel discussions and talks. thats what youd get out of avit apart from performances

and if you had youd know that NOWHERE have we ever said anything about everyone getting to play, that would be blatantly impossible

and as for your remarks about it being all about the managers, and making DJ;s comfortable :confused: where did that come from certainly not anything weve said
yes we have entered into partnership with some local club promoters to bring in some big name DJ's so that there are plenty of general public punters at the MassJam, but weve also made it quite clear(and theyve been totally understanding about this) that the vj's are the main performers, theyve even gone so far as to hunt down big name djs who are pro-visuals

It seems to me that youve had some idea in your head as to what Avit is gonna be like, and youve made no attempt to check if its true . and now youre moaning cos the avit were doing doesnt exactly fit what you want .

as far as the selection process, I already said that the main way was simply lack of showreel/demo/webbased material to back up the application (as specifically requested) If your friends had maybe dropped us a line to say that they were idealogically opposed to showreels then maybe we'd have thought about it, as it was we just assumed that they like many others just couldnt be arsed to follow the selection criteria as stated .

as for telling you who was on the selection comittee, well, frankly NO,
why should we let you vent your spleen on those unfortunate individuals who drew the short straw.

It was a very difficult and painful job to do, no-one wants to tell a fellow artist that they cant play. My hat is off to the people on the selection comittee, i know it was a very long, hard, and obviously thankless job that they did.

sorry if this seems agressive but, I find your negative attitude very sad. especially as weve gone out of our way to take onboard your specific requests, both to not have the awards as an inter vj competition, and to be able to do a loungey type av gig

please lighten up and enter into the spirit of things rather than sitting back and sniping at our failings

[holly]

Guys, Charlie, do not make this a personal attack on politics or past VJ advice!

AVIT is a big event and as such it will draw fire from non-establishment types (Falk) and many of his points seem valid but maybe in terms of this event becoming larger than what Falk sees as a community event. At the core of AVIT is the community. If individuals are feeling left out, that is a valid issue that can be addressed with respect.

[charlielangridge]

Originally posted by holly
Guys, Charlie, .....

Im a guy too!!!! :eek:

I hate to shatter everybodies envisagement of me as the sexy tech-headed roadie chick, but its not true! (well not the chick bit anyway ;))

[wellREDman]

must be your man breasts charlie :)

[holly]

Falk, AVIT's purpose is to become large and serve as a central showcase and conference for VJs. It is the real-world equivalent of VJCentral. As such, everyone is invited to attend but the real world has real-world limitations in space and time. If you feel AVIT has outgrown you or its original community, there is plenty of room to create a splinter group by adding another venue to AVIT, or by creating a separate event at another place and time. Once the Djin is out of the bottle it's not going to go back in. Be happy that you are not in charge and realize that if you want a smaller, less publicized event then we all encourage you to create it. Don't fault AVIT for doing what it was supposed to do. Try to be active and promote additional events or sub-conference within AVIT.

I'm sorry, but from over here the person who sounds like he is trying to be exclusive to only letting his friends play is you, and I know that is not what you are trying to convey. Please try to make positive suggestions or as a forum host I am going to have to start censoring or closing this thread.

Charlie, since Falk created this thread specifically to address these issues he does not need to be attacked. If you can't also keep your comments positive and on topic I will be forced to censor you.

NO PERSONAL ATTACKS!

[charlielangridge]

I have removed the personal attack from my message although i am still disgusted by some of VJ X's comments.

[vjnixmix]

Has anyone here tried to throw an event with 2000 opinions?

Your establishment IS your community ... and if AVIT is to be successful we must include sponsors and corporations to provide the funding and make it happen in a REAL world.

This is the main thing that we had issues with for AVIT NA - people thought as the "core" we were counting out people - which is VERY untrue. Anyone is invited to be part of the core as long as they represent it with a respectable nature (ie: we can't afford to have people representing AVIT with negativity and irresponsibility).

The more we try to make this on a real forum of large events the more we have corporate decisions to make. We may not be an "Establishment" per say - but we must deal with many corporations to make this happen and in turn we cannot have decisions entirely public. For example if we were negotiating a sponsorship: There are conflicts of interest we must take into play. Some sponsors don't want it spread thru the community if they are only considering there position with the event. Only after they have commited are we allowed to make that public. The same goes with Venue negotiation and accounting. THere are many things of an event that require privacy.

As the avit core it is our job to consider the opinions of our community ... which we do as well as we can - but it is also difficult when the staff needed for the event is swamped. If you feel there is a lack of communication - step up and fix it. Be the pipeline if you see a need for a pipeline. This is why we have a community.

Even with sponsorship it is the mission behind the event which should hold importance, obviously it is still true, because no one is getting anything monetary or glorious from this ... the mission is still to make AVIT real for this community. We should be gracious for such selfless dedicated people who are willing to do so. And be less selfish ourselves in order to make this happen.


Respect is a two way street here...

Why do I feel like this thread is repeating itself... well I guess they say that history does.

[Lucidhouse]

Everyone's got opinions guys, if we all agree it's gonna get prity boring and stagnant. I know I'm to blame sometimes, but let's try and not be rude to each other.
:grouphug:

[murph]

ok, I don't think there is a better solution for most of the issues fALK has raised, but communication is something the AVITcore could admittedly do better with. Part of the issue, I know, is the matter of how and what to communicate.

Recently I've found that a blog is an awesome easy way to update my own website. Blogger recently made opening blogs free, and they're super easy to post to from anywhere. If the folks are interested in posting some of the details from their meetings about what's been decided and why, I'm sure that could help alleviate some of the fears about mystery groups steering us towards corporate subservience or ninjas or whatever. We fear the unknown the most, and usually what our minds cook up is far worse than reality ever could be, so let's eliminate the unkown!

Open a blog, give all the core members the passwords, and link it from the avit website. Pretty easy.

on yeah, www.blogger.com

[InsideUsAll]

based on my experience from 'within the core' the one and only single reason there isn't more info published by the aviteers is time. non of us have it and all of us need it.

everybody in the core sees it as a burden as much as a priveledge, I for one had to step back from involvement in the day to day organising because of my time constraints. I hope any negativity felt towards those sacrificing a huge portion of their time for the true love of the community can be quashed by a moments pondering on how much you too wish you had the time to do all the things you wanted to do!

[Bassheadde]

Well then I'm not sure if there is much else to say in this matter, seems like all that posted here - posted to set a few people with pesonal prob's. on the right path.

That has been done, but seems like and this is from my personal knowledge of throwing an Avit - there are those that have isues with this idea of the "core" and what is going on within it. If you are so worried about what is going on behind the closed door than come in, every one has that option and allways has. I dont think many of you are paying attention to the last post that VJNixMix posted covering the aspects of posting updates about the actual plannig.

IF YOU DONT UNDERSTAND YOU"VE NEVER DONE IT YOURSELF. You cant just go around updating every day, becasue data will change and in the end you will have people even more confused than if you wouldnt have given out any data at all!!!!

You can not post every thing as it is being planed,
it is not possible and is not good idea for all those involved esp. when there are sponsors and partnerships in works......and that is a must unless Falk you are planning on paying for the event out of poket. We barley did Avit NA on a buget of 8,000 and our planned buget was over 20,000. this is prob nothing compared to Avit UK. This is allot of money to spend, raise, and budget. PLUS none of US AVIT CORE get payed for our time. SO WHAT THE #%$&!!!! You think we are doing all this for the money or the &%#$ING Glory!!!! We do it for you and the rest of the mebers of this board. If you cannot trust that some one else is doing some thing good for you out of the bottom of their heart than you have personal issues to deal with>>>>Sorry to be so harsh but this is NUTS so I will have my word in. AGAIN the main thing that you dont understand that all the work all the money all the planning is all done with out any hope of gettting any thing back besides the Joy of Avit.

Just allot of work with one end result Avit.
It is what it is and will only be what we make it and all of us on VJC make it possible.

Peace to all and lets stop this back and forth allready.
:love2:

Bassheadde
These views do not represent the Avit core or VJC and are my pesonal veiws only.

[Anyone]

ok for all the comments here,
come to AVIT and we will discuss it live no problem...

At the moment thing are BEING done for AVIT Brighton,
we are learning from past experiences of AVIT UK 2002 and AVIT US,
but also we are learning as we go ...

We are a few weeks away form AVIT,
the momentum is there and we cannot stop
what we are doing at the moment to question it...

When this one is done,
we will sit down and listen and read all your comments on how to improve
the next editions of AVIT.

In the meantime,
please peeps lets just watch ourselves and our language...
VJF has grown in a huge way, and there are growing pains.
this is a community forum, but now it is becoming much more.
people from all walks of life (including potential and present sponsors)
are looking at us,
reading these threads, to judge the state of VJing on a worldwide level.
let's do them proud...

let's just give ourselves the benefit of the doubt that we ARE TRYING
to do a wicked festival, to the best of our knowledge,
as well as to the best of our physical and financial capacity.

correct me if I'm wrong, AVIT Brighton will be
the biggest community based VJ festival, in history.
let's try and make it the most positive and exciting as well :grouphug:

oli / Ne1

[Amukidi]

Wise words.

[InsideUsAll]

nice one oli