To ARKAOS or not??

[mannikin]

Hi;

I think I picked the best forum to ask and discuss this question. I'm glad I stumbled across this site. :)

I'm trying to decide on what software to use, and Arkaos VJ keeps coming up as the contender. I wanted to ask if it will fit the bill for what I want to do:

Here is a list of equipment I plan on using. The intent is to do live visuals for bands, mostly synthpop or industrial music:

- G3 Powerbook Pismo
- Mac OS 9 or X
- Oxygen 8 Midi Controller
- Some sort of projector (if the venue doesn't have one, I will supply)
- and of course the software

I really want to be able to trigger the video and imagery through a keyboard, to give it that live performance feel. I'm a motion designer by trade, so I can easily create cool imagery using a myriad of tools (photoshop, final cut, after effects, etc..)

Is arkaos the best choice for this? I am macintosh user, so it has to be able to run under the Mac OS, which Arkaos currently does, and even support OS X. I grabbed their demo, and right off the bat, the effects really had that "cheese" feel to them.... :D Any info or suggestions would be greatly apprecaited from you experts. :)

Thanks;
John

[hamageddon]

arkaos should work in that environment, but honestly, the actual version of arkaos is seriously dated, u might want to check the software section of vjcentral or the toolshak from www.audiovisualizers.com

[mannikin]

Thanks for the info. It seems VJ is the most professional tool around for the mac platform right now. I checked out all the other apps, and they all seem to either be student projects, or simply made to create psychedelic imagery. :)

J.


Originally posted by hamageddon
arkaos should work in that environment, but honestly, the actual version of arkaos is seriously dated, u might want to check the software section of vjcentral or the toolshak from www.audiovisualizers.com

[hamageddon]

yeah, i can name some apps for the wintel-plattform, that i would rather buy than arkaos again, because they deliever definatly more bang 4 the buck, but i couldn't think of an alternative on the mac-plattform.....

[mannikin]

Good enuff. ;) Thanks for the feedback.

J.

[infopocalypse]

HeyVJ as soon as it goes into Beta and I have a Mac.

[mannikin]

Do you guys have a website, so I can check out the software? Just curious what it looks like. Most stuff out there is prolly very powerful, but they have awful interfaces, rendering them useless!!

thanks;
J.

Originally posted by infopocalypse
HeyVJ as soon as it goes into Beta and I have a Mac.

[infopocalypse]

HeyVJ is still in development.... we're actually working on UI right now... and it will be skin based.

James

[vjrei]

I'm a mac user too, I have my Pismo 500, excellent machinne.

Look, I was looking for arkaos a few months ago, I tested every software and let me tell you... Arkaos is good but is not a primary software, I mean, you will have to be on him all the time, you won't have time to take a breake.

My primary soft is Motiondive 3, get it with your eyes closed. It comes with a very nice footage, you can create/ edit text in real time, it has an auto mode (if you need to leave for a moment), and a bunch of transitions and other features.

With Arkaos you will need to create your set up before the gig. The really cool thing about arkaos the to be able to punch the videos with a keyboard but that is it.

TRust me, get Motiondive 3 and later on get another computer (a $1000 Pismo) with arkaos. With Motiondive you can punch the images very fast but not at the speed of Arkaos.

Usually in live performance you are going to play for 4 or 5 hours and just 1 hour at your 100% (depending of the feeling of the DJ). Most of the time you are gonna find DJ that doesn't inspired you, so, why being attach to your machine at your 100%? live it in auto mode and go a meet some girls. :)

I'm planing to get a secund Pismo, I already have the Videonics MXPro (do not get th DV, too much useless money). Would be nice to have Arkaos at the climax of the party, just then.

[mannikin]

Hi;

Thanks for the info and feedback. ;) Does motiondive have a website, so I can check it what it does?

J.


Originally posted by vjrei
I'm a mac user too, I have my Pismo 500, excellent machinne.

Look, I was looking for arkaos a few months ago, I tested every software and let me tell you... Arkaos is good but is not a primary software, I mean, you will have to be on him all the time, you won't have time to take a breake.

My primary soft is Motiondive 3, get it with your eyes closed. It comes with a very nice footage, you can create/ edit text in real time, it has an auto mode (if you need to leave for a moment), and a bunch of transitions and other features.

With Arkaos you will need to create your set up before the gig. The really cool thing about arkaos the to be able to punch the videos with a keyboard but that is it.

TRust me, get Motiondive 3 and later on get another computer (a $1000 Pismo) with arkaos. With Motiondive you can punch the images very fast but not at the speed of Arkaos.

Usually in live performance you are going to play for 4 or 5 hours and just 1 hour at your 100% (depending of the feeling of the DJ). Most of the time you are gonna find DJ that doesn't inspired you, so, why being attach to your machine at your 100%? live it in auto mode and go a meet some girls. :)

I'm planing to get a secund Pismo, I already have the Videonics MXPro (do not get th DV, too much useless money). Would be nice to have Arkaos at the climax of the party, just then.

[burstingfist]

I have used Arkaos 2.11 on both Mac and PC for a while now, and it does many things that no other VJ software does. It allows upto 50 layers of FX and Videos. It plays AVI,QT, and Flash. You can have 88 FX & Videos per patch and 128 patches per synth. Arkaos is great for compositing FX to create new and unusual FX on the fly. You can control the opacity of video clips using the velocity of a midi keyboard. Most FX allow some level of MIDI control .

Arkaos is great when used in conjunction with other software (such as motion dive, Visual Jockey etc.). It is a bit pricey, but it is one of those apps that is solid and does what is supposed to

[mannikin]

It's great to hear some feedback from a poweruser like yourself. :) I definitely plan on taking advantage of VJ's midi capabilities, using my Oxygen 8 controller.

J.


Originally posted by burstingfist
I have used Arkaos 2.11 on both Mac and PC for a while now, and it does many things that no other VJ software does. It allows upto 50 layers of FX and Videos. It plays AVI,QT, and Flash. You can have 88 FX & Videos per patch and 128 patches per synth. Arkaos is great for compositing FX to create new and unusual FX on the fly. You can control the opacity of video clips using the velocity of a midi keyboard. Most FX allow some level of MIDI control .

Arkaos is great when used in conjunction with other software (such as motion dive, Visual Jockey etc.). It is a bit pricey, but it is one of those apps that is solid and does what is supposed to

[vjculture]

I use both a mac and a PC and I use the midiman oxy 8
I love it. It is the most stable app I have found for VJing.
You mentioned that you are a motion graphic designer. I think that is great. Arkaos is used best when you preproduce your effects and content. Actually, I think that is true for most apps.
Also, word on the street has it that Midiman, Arkaos and Reason maybe bundled in the near future. Plus new effects and a sequencer.
Arkaos can play heavy clips and you can output your program with audio either by using an audio file or from the .kos file live.
I would have to say for live A/V software Arkaos, VJamm lowlevel and Motion Dive are the softwares to go with.
The only complaint I have with Arkaos is the effects. 90% of them are cheesy. As a designer I think you will agree. However, the effects are open source so you can program your own or find others with some.
Also on their website you can download from the community other people's Kos files.
g
vj culture

[mannikin]

Hi VJ Culture;

Thanks for your replying. Hope you don't mind, but I had a few questions regarding your post:

- It seems like lotsa people have mentioned Vjamm and Motion Dive. Are these apps available on the mac platform?

- Is it a good practive to output prepared video pieces for After Effects or Final Cut at high res (640x480 or 720x486, 29.97 fps) ? I know that all depends on how fast the hard drive is to play the videos. Just curious what you did in your shows.

- Damn, I totally agree regarding the effects!! They are mostly horrible. :) I'm glad to find out that the effects are customizable. One thing I haven't been able to figure out and I'm not sure if VJ does that, is fading in/out between two clips, or compositing clips. Can VJ do such a thing?

Thanks;
J.

Originally posted by vjculture
I use both a mac and a PC and I use the midiman oxy 8
I love it. It is the most stable app I have found for VJing.
You mentioned that you are a motion graphic designer. I think that is great. Arkaos is used best when you preproduce your effects and content. Actually, I think that is true for most apps.
Also, word on the street has it that Midiman, Arkaos and Reason maybe bundled in the near future. Plus new effects and a sequencer.
Arkaos can play heavy clips and you can output your program with audio either by using an audio file or from the .kos file live.
I would have to say for live A/V software Arkaos, VJamm lowlevel and Motion Dive are the softwares to go with.
The only complaint I have with Arkaos is the effects. 90% of them are cheesy. As a designer I think you will agree. However, the effects are open source so you can program your own or find others with some.
Also on their website you can download from the community other people's Kos files.
g
vj culture

[hamageddon]

- It seems like lotsa people have mentioned Vjamm and Motion - Dive. Are these apps available on the mac platform?
motion dive? yes.
http://www.audiovisualizers.com/toolshak/vjprgpix/m_dive.htm
vjamm? no. but vidvox prophet is quite the same on a quicktime
engine, but please note these tools are aimed at av interaction
not at visual magnificence :)
btw: using qtime controllers VJ is capable of avscratching, too
but not far as good as vjamm


- Is it a good practive to output prepared video pieces for After Effects or Final Cut at high res (640x480 or 720x486, 29.97 fps) ? I know that all depends on how fast the hard drive is to play the videos. Just curious what you did in your shows.

highres ok for postproduction, live i wouldn't go higher
as 400x300 because of performance issues


One thing I haven't been able to figure out and I'm not sure if VJ does that, is fading in/out between two clips, or compositing clips. Can VJ do such a thing?

with a bit of practise u can fade between two layers with
midicontrollers or midi velocity via opacity, but VJ isn't Adobe AEFX :)

[mannikin]

Wow, Motion Dive seems to have quite an interface! I'll definitely be downloading its demo and see what it does. It does seem a bit pricey though!

So, how do you use both VJ and Motion Dive together? Are their functions not going to overlap? I just wanted to understand the role of each piece of software in a live setup scenario. I'm such a newbie when it comes to this stuff.. ;)

BTW, my sneaky suspicion is that VJ may be releasing some new version pretty soon, prolly in response to the new version of Mac OS X, due out in the end of the summer... although, that is only speculation.. :)

J.

[hamageddon]

Originally posted by mannikin
BTW, my sneaky suspicion is that VJ may be releasing some new version pretty soon, prolly in response to the new version of Mac OS X, due out in the end of the summer... although, that is only speculation.. :)


well the 2.2 ist still in beta, no major improvements anyway but they promised loads of stuff 4 the following 2.5 release maybe the next osx is a siginficant date 4 them, cause their main market is still mac

well if anything happens, u will sure read it on the Aqueous_Arkaos@yahoogroups.com list

[infopocalypse]

Actually alpha and transfer modes aren't that bad (having been coding them for the past week)... there really is no reason you shouldn't be able to do easy crossfading, and I know for a fact that SVI and many other programs enable it.

James

[hamageddon]

this guy's on mac dude.....

but since i'm tired of dark angel reruns, i give u 5 top reasons
why i hate arkaos on pc and will be switching to resolume soon:

1. arkaos might per4m cool on mac, but is weakly ported to pc
check out the crashes due to porting quicktime files after
leaving fullscreen mode, taking ur current *.kos with it.
and never change the file structure of a set cause arkaos
won't find it ever again....

2. videoinput? no way. even on mac there's only framegrabbing possible...

3. interface? well it may look cool (4 whom?) but is a pain to
operate. better memorize those fx-icons

4. definatly overpriced.

5. pathetic copy protection scheme. required a new licsense
after reinstalling my notebook with the same os.

well there *are* some good points. let me think about it ;)

[bigloose]

5. pathetic copy protection scheme. required a new licsense
after reinstalling my notebook with the same os.


Arkaos is working fine for me right now but my biggest problem is the copy protection. I already have used 4 serial numbers (for 1 machine) and I don't have any other left. So I can't even reinstall my os if I have a problem. That sucks!!! ( I don't care about copy protection but when users who paid the software cannot use it correctly it really sucks).
bigloose

[WordVirus23]

Originally posted by hamageddon
[ i give u 5 top reasons
why i hate arkaos on pc and will be switching to resolume soon:

1. arkaos might per4m cool on mac, but is weakly ported to pc
check out the crashes due to porting quicktime files after
leaving fullscreen mode, taking ur current *.kos with it.
and never change the file structure of a set cause arkaos
won't find it ever again....

-------I use arkaos on a PC laptop to do at LEAST 3 shows per week and have only had it crash mid-show, once in the past 8 months, and that was because I had accidentally tapped the touchpad during a show. I also have no problem re-using .KOS files, removing files that don't go w/ that show, etc etc... just realize that KOS files are basically like DLLs, don't move your files around and you'll be fine.

2. videoinput? no way. even on mac there's only framegrabbing possible...

-----if it had video input, why would we have to buy video mixers? ;) ya bought it for a reason, and I'll bet it's got 4 inputs in the back.

3. interface? well it may look cool (4 whom?) but is a pain to
operate. better memorize those fx-icons

------a pain to operate? exactly how is drag and drop a "pain"?
4. definatly overpriced.
------just a note, if you've got your system restore disks for your laptop, that 300 dollar price tag mysteriously disappears ;) (if you're reading Arkaos team, come down in price and you'd probably sell a lot more copies)

5. pathetic copy protection scheme. required a new licsense
after reinstalling my notebook with the same os.
----------see #4

I whole heartedly agree that the effect lack something, but if you've got good video clips, the effects you use are sorta irrelevant. good artists (i.e. not lazy ones) don't need to rely on Auto-Pilot, good slow transitions can keep ppl entranced for long periods of time.
[/B]

[hamageddon]

Originally posted by WordVirus23
[QUOTE]basically like DLLs, don't move your files around and you'll be fine.
even if, still no good idea treating datafiles like system components. that would be a major flaw in the system design. anyway u'd be surely on the black list of the league of crafty
programmers 4 trying a stunt like this

and I'll bet it's got 4 inputs in the back.
no that's an arkaos programmer after i paid him a visit ;)
why the hell should i abandon an option that's
common in nearly *every* vj-soft? because the programmer
isn't able to implement it?

------a pain to operate? exactly how is drag and drop a "pain"?
i was talking about the gui.
btw: why is drag'n'drop the only way of getting multiple
files into the app? why can't i select multiple files
in the standard windows dialogue? great porting again.


------just a note, if you've got your system restore disks for your laptop, that 300 dollar price tag mysteriously disappears
well that didn't work 4 bigloose and me. if a program requires
a new regcode after reinstalling the *same* os with the *same* serial without changing *any* hardware, something's definitaly wrong.


good artists (i.e. not lazy ones) don't need to rely on Auto-Pilot, good slow transitions can keep ppl entranced for long periods of time.

yep, and thank heaven, there are lots of good programs
out there that are capable of doing this without those arkaos flaws

[spark]

just to throw my tuppence into the powerbook mix,

i use two kinds of vj soft: vdmx for creative, longform performance and rc fuse for short, punchy, totally sync'd sets.

both have key features of being able to mix live with two channels permanently in add/sub composite mode. vdmx is like after effects live but has poor framerate, and rc fuse runs fast but is really just a clip player - boring.

vdmx is midiable, rc fuse aint.

i hear its quite common for pismo owners to produce content in other apps and perform using arkaos, it ain't exciting but it doesn't crash and is highly optimised. with a tibook you've got more flexibility...

hope that helps,

toby

[francisj]

John,
firstly, arkaos (in my humble and now f**'in painful) experience arkaos is a complete liability, certainly with my hardware/OS combination (2x1ghz G4, 512mb ram, audiophile soundcard, OS 9.2/10.1.4). So it's not exactly scratching around for spare processor - it still (COMPLETELY RANDOMLY, APPARENTLY) will sometimes crash every 2-10 minutes. At others it will function perfectly all night.
I agree totally with all the effects criticism of other posts, too...although it is easy to overlook the possibility of using QuickTime transitions/effects which adds to options a little...
Has anyone reading this actually used Arkaos in OS X??? when I try to install it gives a message about not being able to create a file right after you select the language to install...the Arkaos 2.1.2 installer as downloaded actually installs 2.1.1 for OS 9....does the OS X version really exist or do they just mean 'will run in classic mode' (NOT my definition of 'compatible' - and, on my system, not true, either)...
second, unless you plan on having VGA, component BNC, S-video (and preferably composite BNC/RCA) connection options, and are not bothered in any way about the quality/brightness/location of your image, then BUY YOUR OWN PROJECTOR AND SCREEN.
IMHO, most venues (this may be a UK thing, not sure where u are) really aren't bothered about projections - you get the video equivalent of a cheap hi-fi in the corner, s**t which no venue would ever expect DJs to deal with.
The evolution 4-octave keyboard with 14 or so assignable controllers seems excellent, though...that I thoroughly recommend!

[bigloose]

does the OS X version really exist or do they just mean 'will run in classic mode' (NOT my definition of 'compatible' - and, on my system, not true, either)..



Yes it exist and it's working ... but not wery well. Everytime I start the export to video, my video output change automaticaly from PAL to NTSC and then I have a black &white image...

hope next version will work better....

[vjculture]

Sorry for the late reply.
I wouldn't recommend outputting any higher than 640 x 480.
The DV (720) only seems to get squashed down to 640.
I output from After Effects at 640 and use cleaner 5 to compress my clips. Sorenson 3. I try to keep my clips under 12meg.
before I start to mix the bank of clips live I will trigger them all one or twice to get the mapping down. It seems to help the latency issue.