VJing Approach [Layering]

[skulpture]

So after watching Steve VJ this weekend at Passion Vs Storm it made me realise about the concept of VJing... I don't intend this post to be about why we VJ, but about how we/I build up clips, layer and sequences during sets.

Now I know there are many ways to think about this and each and everyone of us will do it differently, but what I discovered this weekend was that my approach is in someways - kinda floored.

My approach is (or was...) to play a clip that relates to the music, if its a dark dirty track then I go for a dark and dirty clip - probably fast paced and have a slower clip for any breakdowns etc. Then I play around with effects and audio responsive interaction. Now I guess many people do this (in very simple terms). It works and for most part I get a lot of good feedback. I am happy to use abstract and concrete images and often mix it up with live feed video.

But watching Steve an many VJ showreels I have seen other build up sequences from many individual clips, for example:

1- A background, sometimes just slow moving colors, shapes etc.
2- A moving layer, something to play around with, can also use live feed video inputs.
3- A mask or some kind of interesting element that changes the overall footage using various comp modes.
4- Often an audio visualizer, EQ's or something to relate to the music directly.
5- Parts 3 and 4 can then be replaced with text, branding or other promotional stuff every now and again.

Perhaps this is nothing major and all of you top dogs out there are probably going to laugh and think so what.... well I actually think its important and I wanted to share this as this weekend has changed my whole outlook and approach to visual stuff now.

So the four layers, all of which can be swapped and replaced work well. From now on I am going to work this way and rather than just trigger a few clips and play around with effects I am not going to build up video using layers and 'tease' the audience, this way I can drop out layers when beats/bass drop out etc.

So that's my random ramble over. :D

[bilderbuchi]

just wanted to add this video, fits the topic:
http://vjkungfu.com/archive/structure-in-vj-performance/

[deepvisual]

its all down to personal taste.
if you have got all night to mess around, its a nice way to pass the time.
I haven't so I prepare things beforehand

[SteveG]

Hey! Thanks Graham. It was a pleasure having you along again. Beleive me you were throwing up some nice sequences and as I said only a few minor points I would have changed personally myself.

The reasons you've stated above are the reasons I use so many different sources when working it gives a lot of flexibilty when doing what I do.

I understand Gary's method and that's great when your involved in the type of shows he gets involved with. I have to be more flexible due to the lack of preparation by many promoters, poor communication by certain individuals and some who just have too much f*****! ego to speak to VJ's:)

I think it's great when we can learn and adopt others ways of working....at some point someone will come out with the perfect solution:) Could be you;)

I've only had a chance to learn from a few VJ's along the way unfortunately, Gary being just one...I call him Sir :D The other unfortunately no longer doing much was Charles Kreil....if you're still reading the forum CX give's a call.

Thanks again Graham and by all means come along any time there's space and scope for it. O2 Leeds Friday and look forward to perhaps getting you a room for that biggish one in Sept.

ps: For the corporate gigs I do I tend to work more as gary has suggested and prepare more for the show and go as far as getting band set lists etc.

Keep in mind that fortunately for me you have enjoyed what I produce live and have learned from it. No doubt some VJ's will think it crap as their own material is always going to be the best....of course. Learn from everyone and you can change styles to suit;) I always say that stylising yourself or material too strongly leads to you being typecast just like an actor.

[skulpture]

I actually forgot about this thread - I forgot to subscribe to it! Ooops!.

But yeah you are all right and bilderbuchi I think I have seen that video (maybe sub-consciously I had remembered about it but at the time of writing this thread - I had completely forgot about it)

I just can't wait to get all this marking done and get producing over the summer.... especially when work give me my new laptop with AE on!

[asterix]

I love seeing what other vj's do.
Don't be afraid of simplicity. Sometimes vj's get out of hand with their layering. Cleaness is still a bonus if you cna maintain it.

I'm a layer monkey myself. I'll be releasing my new 'dragan' vj mixer which is an isadora patch. You've seen the early beta release listed in the patches section of the issy forum.

Hoping to get a polished system released soon.

[PCProject]

Simple yet effective trick.

make a lens flare in 3d max, put it into your VJ app as three seperate layers, have three offset in points and let the interference patterns flow!

[fata alex]

this is something i've become really aware of recently, both from seeing others work at recent festivals, but also from starting to learn modul8, which seems like its especially built for this layered style of vjing.

I kind of feel like its aimed at/most suited to visual artists from a graphic design background, trained in spatial composition. I've always come from a more film-y background, having got into vjing through live cinema, and as such, i've always worked with temporal composition, playing one clip after another, and bouncing between them, often using my clips like drum samples, which often means i only ever play the first few frames of each clip before jumping to another one (especially with fast music).
Since starting to learn modul8 i've been trying to come up with more layered compositions, which requires creating a lot of new content, as most of my full-frame video doesn't blend well with others, but im really struggling with it, i find it really hard to see a clip or still image, and picture how it can fit with others.

I'd love to hear other vjs stories on how they made the jump (or transition!) from 1-clip-after-another-vjing to
1-clip-ontop-of-another-vjing.

I think initially when i started vjing i was put off layering by vjs i saw who piled loads of videos on top of each other and made a horrible mess, but ive seen some who do it really well this year, and modul8 certianly seems very powerful for it.

Its just a new way of thinking to adapt to i spose!

[sleepytom]

Maybe start to think about your source files in the context of layers?

the break through for me was starting to make simply graphic overlays which would layer without the mush of full frame video layers. Using stills or video with alpha channels makes it all a lot cleaner and lets you do nice compositing rather than the hard lumakey which seems to be all too common in VJ work.

For the future I'm looking to get better at these techniques of layering and rotoscoping footage so it fits together properly. A big stylistic influence on the direction i want to go in is some of the current BBC Bristol documentary productions, (eg Rude Britannia (http://beta.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00srf2d/Rude_Britannia_A_History_Most_Satirical_Bawdy_Lewd _and_Offensive/) - it features really great compositions with rotoscoped layers from archive material being treated with a 3d perspective effect allowing rostrum camera work which looks really fresh and different)

[vjair]

Maybe start to think about your source files in the context of layers?

the break through for me was starting to make simply graphic overlays which would layer without the mush of full frame video layers. Using stills or video with alpha channels makes it all a lot cleaner and lets you do nice compositing rather than the hard lumakey which seems to be all too common in VJ work.



^^ this

i almost never fill the box. i find it allows you to focus more on whats actualy happening with the visuals instead of just ending up with a mashed up rectangle of light. my clips are all made as components which are intended to work together instead of whole pieces of full frame video.

less is far more in visuals imo.

[SteveG]

What personally pushed me to go this way was taking on lots of gigs with little time to prepare but at the same time trying my utmost to keep the promoters and punters happy with decent quality and new material....yes I talk to them:) Lots of content and a wide variety is the key at times. All you really have to do then is prep the various logos. I also try to style each DJ set within a night with varying styles or content reverting back to the style I have chosen for the actual brand or event. I'm led to believe it works quite well:)

Not being well prepared is a little like a jamming session in a band and having to compromise, adjust and improvise. Visuals are exactly the same and clever layering is the only option really. As Tom says Alex don't just think of your M8 but all your sources as layers, just choose the content carefully. As Arron says too don't always fill the screen....that comes out of habit really playing in crappy clubs where at times the picture frame is either too small for the screen or too large....play safe and keep it all in there:)

M8 as you say Alex is perfect for this style imo too. But I also believe Res4 and Arkaos GV have similar modes so not just M8, at the end of the day most softs can adopt to this layered style. I'm tending to play around a lot with lighting and depth of field at the moment too, it adds so much and as picked up on Saturday more shadow and being more aware of shadow movment.

At the moment I'm working on an 1 hr HD production of tour visuals for a DJ which is based very minimal but layered as I would a live show. I'll post some clips up once it's done a few shows at some point in the coming weeks.

[KidKDN]

layering is something i have seen done to death by people in my area. having said that .. some layering is good.... really good ! 4 layers can be overkill depending on how it is used. i tend to like the montage more.. it makes you feel like your going some where, with out evening having to tell a story. which is something the film approach tends to do ( take you for a ride and tell a story )...

bah narrative, who need that to have fun while playing a game of A/V cut up !

[Anders]

Very interesting stuff !!

[madsmeskalin]

Personally, and that due to my lack of experience, I tend to make short animated sequences, time it to 30fps in 1,2,4,8,16 second clips (120bpm) and sync video duration with the scratch knob in modul8. I make all my clips with alpha channels and try to beat sync everything. When I want to change style I usually put on a mask before I fade the layers underneath.

This might sound stupid; but having used only modul8 and not having a lot of experience, I thought layering was more or less the only option :p

[madsmeskalin]

But this thread is really interesting. I always been interested in how VJ's make their sets, how they build it up from start to end.

[thomase]

I started out filming things, playing around with fx and then rendering out various versions of one clip, triggering them sequencially. Sometimes I used VJO to have audioreactive stuff to go with the clips. Then I got into MOTION and started making simple animations (lines, squares,...) and moved them around. I also started keying things out to blend into the rest. Then I got quite lazy and relied heavily on VDMX's possibilities of effecting material while performing - which lead to some very good and some very bad results - my only preparation was the creation of clips. Lately I have become interested in a "grungy" look and had a look at some tutorials on the web, which then again lead to me thinking about layering and blend modes. I am currently in the process of completely reorganizing my work to move from clip playing to live compositing.

[madsmeskalin]

Its kinda like with DJ's and laptops. You can make a DJ set so fucking interesting and really make something new; not just crossfade pre-beatmatched tracks. When you use a computer for VJing, you have so many possibilites, so why not exploit them? I also go for a compositing approach.