ARe we getting anywhere.....

[Rovastar]

Recent at a friends and saw a big pile of flyers for all sorts of events in London and the surounding area.

Now this were some of teh big clubs events too and they were all random flyers.

Now out of what 40-50 flyers there were only 2 visual 'acts' on there one was the Light Surgeons at one night at Fabric (the flyer had a month of nights on) and the other(someone up there doesn't like me) well....I will not name here but no doubt a few can guess. :);)

How has this changed in the past year and how do you think it will change in the future.

I know flyer presence is not everyhing but it does make the punters you more aware.

This coupled with the fact teh I cannot remember a flyer/advert in the big music mag for the many large festivals in the summer taht mention a VJ.

Some say 'wicked lighting and visual system' or some tosh but I never saw one that mentioned VJ's.

I read an article in Mixmag or something a month or so back talking about God's Kitchen event (i think) . Interviewing teh promoter about what you need to do a big event . 10 points, etc. Not mentioned visuals once.

It is well know that mixmag in teh past have not been too caring for the VJ's but I thought a mention maybe.

I was more disappointed for adverts for things liek the big chill that I thought were supportive of visual acts. Not one Vj was mentioned on the flyers that i saw.

I know sometimes we think we have progressed (some magizines for example do do Vj columns now) but with simple things like flyer presence we are still in the dark ages.

I have been a memebr of VJ for what a year now and have taken more of an active interest in looking on flyers, etc, etc. But I think it is just as bad as last year.

What next year 3 visual acts on the flyers out of 50 (and covering hundreds of nights and/or rooms). Geez I am 29 now and maybe before VJing it is recognised I'll be in my fifties. :)

[complexvisuals]

A follow on question to that may be;

Does every VJ want his/her name on a flyer? Or are they content with more money?

[sleepytom]

how many lighting guys did you see on the flyers? soundengineers? bar staff?

have you ever asked to have your name on the flyer? I've manny flyers that metion visuals or even list indervidual vjs - but all of these events are put on by people who are seriously into visuals (and yes quite a few of them name the lighting company also) - at the end of the day the promoter puts things on the flyer that encorage people to come to the gig - as almost no VJs actually have a following of punters (yet) there is little suprise that vjs are often missed off the flyers - that combined with a lack of asking accounts for the absence of vjs names from flyers.

if your putting together a contract for a big gig why not stipulate that you must be billed on the flyer, if they argue then say that you want more money as you are not reciving any publicity. - use logos in your sets - make a name for yourself, then putting your name on the flyer becomes an asset to the promoter

[PilotX]

hey Rova.. didn't get a gridlock flyer with that lot then.. makes a point of it in the blurb: 'cutting edge lineups and live surround visuals to bring you an altogether new club experience' with us named as doing visuals on the flyer.

I think it's a critical mass thing as much as anything else.. as more flyers get visuals acts named, so promotors will feel that they should/need to name visual acts to attract punters.. although two acts is not alot.. I reckon if you try again in 6 months you might get 4 ;)

[Rovastar]

Why though is it flyer space OR more money.

Do the big DJ's do that!?

I know why the names are not on the flyer it is just that obviously we have not gained all that much credability in the last year IMHO. IF we still cannot draw punters in.

Originally posted by sleepytom
as almost no VJs actually have a following of punters (yet)

Funny you should say that Tom just last week I got a random email from soemone I have never meet or who has seen me play live asking when I am next performing in London as they love my work and want to come along.

[Rovastar]

Originally posted by sleepytom

if your putting together a contract for a big gig why not stipulate that you must be billed on the flyer, if they argue then say that you want more money as you are not reciving any publicity. - use logos in your sets - make a name for yourself, then putting your name on the flyer becomes an asset to the promoter

For me I am not bitching about my own stuff that is not the issue. Either these events had little/no visuals or the promoters still don't care.

I wil ask to be put on the flyer maybe even go so far to insist on it. Why do VJ's not want to be on teh flyer for teh big events esp.

That is what confuses me. Can they not get on or do they not ask? Stories please....

[Freespirit]

In Groningen (a city in the North of the Netherlands) they mention the vj's on almost all flyers (mostly vj's from the city wich most people know by now and recognize their style, except the new collectives like the one where I belong to). It could be that the collectives in this city have a large influence on the party's because a lot of them have vj's in their organisation (I'm one of those :yep: )I haven't seen any mention of vj's on the flyers of the big events in the Netherlands like Dance Valley etc.

[holly]

From my end, VJs don't promote themselves. They want to show up and get paid and have their name on a flyer, but God forbid they HAND OUT those flyers or promote themselves AT ALL. For EyeWash, since it's not a real party but a scene builder I just put everyone's name on the flyer. In a way, it's a calling card for every VJ in New York (who wanted to participate). It's community building, but it does nothing to promote the event because no one knows who any of these people are and they never will.

There's no reason to put someone's name on a promotional unless that name is a draw, or unless that person will be heavily promoting themselves. These VJs don't even tell their friends or roommates that they are performing! I give them a hundred full color cards with their name on it knowing they will be thrown away or sit on the his shelf at home. Coming from a performing arts scene this is crazy/suicide! Why perform at all if you are not there to promote yourself? VJs still act like high school artists who feel entitled to special status, but don't understand that you have to earn that status, not through talent, but through making a name for yourself. The two are not the same.

Now (just the past month or two) I've noticed that more listings on Eyecandy and VJf/c are starting to give little blurbs and bios about the performers. This is a new concept! As a promoter, you kind of have to pull teeth to find some dirt on VJs to put in a listing or events calendar. The names still mean nothing, but sometimes their associations, past gigs, or other jobs are a promoting point. So and So has done programming for an Xbox game. VJ whozit once did a tour for Moby. THESE are selling points, at least until the names start to mean something. The VJs name alone is not a selling point.

[Psychoptik]

Here in Mexico City it wasnt until aboout a year or so when flyers started mentioning the presence of visuals/projections/video and about 6 months ago specific Vjs or visual acts are constantly mentioned in flyers(mostly in psytrance and drum and bass events. The house scene here focuses on big name djs as their only promo on flyers).
Recently as well a couple of newspapers mention whose VJing next to whose spinning that night.

I usually ask promoters to include me in the flyer and if the flyers are already printed or handed out i usually charge him a certain extra percentage(depending on event).Ive never had a promoter deny me space on the flyer up to now.

Some names in the scene here are starting to be recognized by punters and visuals are starting to be regarded as a must for any good party so promoters are looking into those of us with more experience or status in the party scene without flyer exposure this wouldnt be the case...you cant give everyone a demo or buisness card.
We still have long ways to go as well but Vjing is being taken into account by different circles and people and this diversity will ultimately help us be way more recognized in any type of media not only flyers(the paper as an example)and help us get hopefully more and better gigs.

:cool:

PLUR
Viva la raveoluci?n!

[RetinaGlitch]

The truth is that most people go to clubs for the music and visuals/VJs are an added bonus.
Personaly I doubt that I would goto a club with music that I didn't like just to see a VJ, if so it would have to be something spectacular.

It seems that a lot of people don't notice how much the visuals add to an event unless you point them out.

Last weekend I did a gig that I got through a friend bigging me up to the promoter. It wasn't till the end of the night that he expressed how amazed he was and how much it had added to the night. Today I got a text from the said promoter asking me to do another gig.

I reckon the best way to get VJing up there is to get out and show people how great it is and how much it can enhance a persons experience of a night in a club. Then promoters take notice and want to promote Vjs alonside DJs.

Later peeps.

PS Freespirit is totally right on. Groningen is the only place that I saw VJs mentioned on nearly all flyers. Big up Groningen.

[vjrei]

Here in my city (Caracas, Venezuela) there is not almost need to show up in a flyers, we are about 2 or 3 Vjs with a name around here, the 3 of us are good, I'm the one whos charge more but of course less events, actually one every 2 month average.

I'm not in the flyers because promoters spend too much time negociating with me by that time the flyers are already in the street, so. I do not need flyers any more but other new VJs are in the flyers now, most of the time those "incidental" VJs that do one show and thats it.

But the good thing is that there is a concisness of creatting the environment in the media.

That is why I poit to that direction so much, I can be in NY giving away my business card to every one and asking to be in every flyer. Now, that may sound like I want to create a name but ... where is the industry? that is why is good every single VJ use their name or the VJ word every where to create noise, in politics is calle "propaganda", then after a year people will be familiarize with the term VJ and they will dig a little more, that mean will pay attention in the names after VJ... Rei or VJ... Holly or what ever.

This is just pure advertising, the first thing to do is to spread the name, amek noise, that is the main reason of the VJ book, the content is not that important, the more books out there the better because that is the way to create a VJ environment, then the name inside that environment will become important.

Poeple will buy whith what is familiar to their ears and eyes. May be MacDonalds is not the best palec of fast food in the world but when you think about fast food MacDonalds pop up first, now Wendys or TacoBell.

We are the first generation of VJs and if we want to make money or get a life from this for our own future we have to do some other things and it is a good thing to do because today to own a name as a DJ for example is close to impossible, the know that we know today are the fathers of the tendences, we do not even are there yet.

[littlecatalyst]

....up here (at parties, not afterhours* clubs) it isn't a matter of getting on the flyer, its actually a m;atter of getting them to spell it right. i feel like such a spoiled brat reading this and knowing that i wanted to back out of a gig for (umong way more serious issues) them billing Little Catalyst. ick.

but yeah,
Originally posted by holly
The names still mean nothing, but sometimes their associations, past gigs, or other jobs are a promoting point.
that usually says a lot more.... don't they still do that for (sorry for comparing) djs? thats what we have here: a (NASA, Arrival, Candyland...) after each talent so you know who they are... i've even seen it for the lazer guy..

tom i usually agree with everything you say, but do you really think the bartender and the light guy should get the same treatment?

*the afterhour clubs digust me (aside from being huge fronts) that they never mention the viuals, while bringing in those jet set djs, but i guess it will be a little while more before they actually go out of their way to get a big name vj (all 5 of them?) maybe more big name vjs??

lastly, i disagree with Retina about the music... i go to the SAT (montreal kicks butt) to see the vj jam sessions, every night monday to friday, i could care less who the dj is.. not only would I definitley buy a ticket to see a show from a tour (my dream vj101 tour) with say, Addictive, Honeyguns, some av act and EBN, not only that but i'm willing to bet that EVERY a&e newsweekly (you know, those cheap copies of the village voice in every city usually free, usually on thursdays) would gush all over that tour... no matter who is djing it.

but just like i don't like to see stuff mispelled, it goes with other things like, 1 power box, a table on stage right... whatever your rider is.... and you gotta spell it out for promoters, e-v-e-r-y- l-e-t-t-e-r..... but yeah it woudln't hurt to pass out those flyers and promote the shows, those flyers usually don't make good filters anyway.....

[syzygy]

We are listed on the flyers for almost all of our gigs and have never had to convince promotors to do it. They all like to advertise the visuals as a feature of their night. We're even on some posters now...

As Tom mentioned, our new London gig have made the visuals an important part of what they are offering to their audience.

The thing to remember is that promotors live a life of husling for every cost saving that they can get. If they think that saying to a VJ "Hey, I'll do you a favour and put you on the flyer so you get promo" will get them a lower price then that is what they will do. They do it with DJs all the time but obviously not with the big names because they know they'll get nowhere with it. Some promotors will try it on with VJs because they think they might get somewhere.

If you really want to make sure, just politely tell them that presense on promotional materials is a requirement for a performance.

We've been misspelt a few times (not too suprising with a name like syzygy) but there's no point getting upset about it. I've seen plenty of big name DJs misspelt too...

While we're on the topic, what's the weirdest thing you've been credited as? "Visual Masturbation" was probably ours ;)

Dan.

[syzygy]

Originally posted by Rovastar
obviously we have not gained all that much credability in the last year IMHO. IF we still cannot draw punters in.


Well, things are obviously different in different places.

Birmingham has gone from having the odd event with visuals on the flyers here and there to there being two or three events each week with VJs advertised. There are now at least 6 VJs/Crews performing regularly and being identified on flyers/posters etc.

The promotors in Birmingham seem to recognise the value of visuals and the desire of the punters to go to events where some effort has gone into the visuals.

Maybe things are better in the Midlands than down south :eek:

Dan.

[vjrei]

Promoters shouldn't have any problem writting down VJ names, VJ is a plus in a party. If I have to choos between 3 parties and one of them has a VJ I'll go for the VJ, but you have to tell that to the promoter, promoters should like to have special things in their events. Now, other DJs get some envy, I have to deal with that because around here is like that:

Q-why do I have to pay you that much is I make a quater of that in the night?
A-Because you do not play the entire night and you do not bring all your equipment.
Q- Do you need to bring all that?
A- Yes, that is my equipment.

Most of the time they end up using a VCR to replace the VJ, but that is only in small places around here. May be the performance is not good but around here there is a feeling of respect to the audience in a party, a VJ bring more feeling than a VCR or DVD and promoters know that.

The point is that before selling our name the VJ name have to me sold before, we have to make it a need, then people are gonna ask for names.

Each country is differnet but based on the interest we all have I see that happening sooner than later:D

[murph]

I think names on flyers will have more meaning when the punters see a real difference between visual acts throughout the night. When the visual style is compelling and intense, and obviously changes with the music, kids will be asking "who's VJing now?" and they'll look at the flyer. When they don't have to be regulars at the club night to know that there's a different VJ up, names on flyers will matter, and promoters will recognize it.

I've finally got a promoter to go with 4 VJs in a night, one-hour set style, and he's going to put the names on the flyers, probably next to the DJ/act they're VJing for. Screens directly behind the DJs, one hour (more intense) sets, and definite changing visuals styles will mean people will notice when VJs change, and they'll be comparing the different styles in their heads. And next time, when they see that VJ on a flyer, that will have meaning for them. We already have that going among a lot of the plush regulars, but this will be a much more defined and obvious version.

Holly, your comments typify the differences I see between Minneapolis and NYC. In NYC you have to shout to get noticed, so everybody's shouting, talented or not. If you don't, nobody will ever notice you, except possibly by act of god. Here, you're rude if you're shouting, so you put up your shit and show people why they should care. The key is cluing the promoters into giving us the opportunity to show our shit in a way that people will care, which I think is finally happening. I guess we'll soon find out. =]

[Psychoptik]

[QUOTE]littlecatalyst? ....up here (at parties, not afterhours clubs) it isn't a matter of getting on the flyer, its actually a matter of getting them to spell it right.?

I hear you dude i just got misspelled for tonights gig (PSYCHOPTIK- Psychptick)...so ill have to resort to my ?Vj name animations or loops? during my show to promote my name.I get asked to promote DJs all the time(?can u show whose playing now??) so i guess theres nothing wrong doing the same for onesself.

We still do not have the influence a DJ (big superstar or not)has over punters and promoters, people are paying to listen (and sometimes see) them, as a main attraction/reason for the party taking the rest of the club or party atmosphere for granted and not really noticing whose doing lighting, visuals, etc.(Yes they are IMO essential to a better atmosphere/scene but not as essential as the DJ)

I did a masive gig for about 12,000 people with Green Velvet as a headliner i was not mentioned in flyers because i was booked a week before the event when flyers had been printed already, the same happened with a corporate gig ina club for a Vodka brand headlining Nick Warren, Danny rampling, etc.(All of em top rated names in the DJ/progressive house scene probably most of u have heard em before).So instead of bitching about not being listed on the flyer or promotional i do my own promotion on my screens at gigs, and charge bit extra (especially with the massive big name headliner gigs) or simply before being booked i talk to promoters ad tell em ?ive done visuals for so and so big name DJs or acts and so and so (important/impressive) events? trying to use those better known names as a hook for promoters to notice that i have some experience and will not let him down.

Just check my ?VJ resume? in the members profiles of VJC(need to update it), thats the kinda stuff i show and tell promoters(with pics of my setup, screens, show, etc)when i hand em my demo and card.This has worked well up to know because i can back all this ?hype? up with a good show that has always left punters and promoters satisfied regardless of who booked me or whose playing or if i was mentioned in flyers or not.

I could ramble on but i gotta get shit ready for tonights rave...remember Vjing is also a buisness for many of us so if you dont get the promotion you deserve make it fo yourself...just be sure to be able to back it up with your show and prove your worthy and experienced enuff to deserve a spot in flyers/media next to the big main (essential) DJs and acts.

Take care all....PLUR!!

Viva la Raveoluci?n!!:D

[littlecatalyst]

Originally posted by Psychoptik
[QUOTE]?Vj name animations or loops? during my show to promote my name.I get asked to promote DJs all the time(?can u show whose playing now??) so i guess theres nothing wrong doing the same for onesself

vj names are just as valid as dj names on a screen.. and i think the fact that there are vjs out ther using themselves is uberool. branding! how many times you had a live camera on the dj, or a close up on the record and mixer... well if it looks cool to see a mixer being twiddled in a turntablism video, and the dj djing looks cool, maybe it would bejust as cool to sometimes see a close up on the edirol being played live and/or the vj as equal to the dj? i mean whos at the mixer control?

like that dude who won the diesel vj award, wazisname? in his video clip he says it like a hundered times exx..something? i hope that vjs putting out dvds in the near future have personas and as much self hype as djs (esp. turntablists, and the way they can make thier names sound so groovy)
and hopefully a little less than rappers......