Female VJs unite @ VJ Culture

[Anyone]

Hi,

First off,
Many thanks everyone, for coming to last VJ Culture
and making it a success!

As mentionned before I wanted to start booking Cinema 1
for the next events.
that didnt quite happen, ICA are playing it safe,
which is fair enough...

But what is happening is that VJ Culture
will happen more often now,
every two months,
and we'll try and have a different theme each time.

Next up:
18 September 8.30 pm

Subject:
Female VJs

Dealine for entries:
8 August

The next VJ Culture event at the ICA will focus on
the women community within the VJ community.

Why is the proportion of men so high in the VJ world?
Is there a VJ style specific to women?

these questions and more will be addressed at the next VJ Culture

If you are a girl solo VJ, an all girl VJ collective
or a mixed VJ collective with girl member(s)
please submit your work according to the following guidelines:

**********
Works should not exceed 10 minutes
and must be sent on one of the following formats:
VHS, SVHS, miniDV (pal), Beta, BetaSP, DVD.

Please include personal details,
ie names, description of your work,
if possible, your account of working
in a disproportionably male environment.

Deadline: Friday 8 August 2003, 5 PM

Send material to:
ICA Cinema
FAO Olivier Sorrentino / VJ Culture
12 Carlton House Terrace
London SW1Y 5AH
UK

The screening will be punctuated by
presentations of participating VJs
and discussions with the audience.

**********
Thanks for your entries!

Best, Ne1

Next theme in november:
The Body in Movement, dates and deadlines TBC


The "VJ Culture" series aims to provide a platform for VJs
to present new work,
as well as to raise the profile of this new and exciting artform.
VJ Culture, the event is not to be confused with
VJ Culture, the artist and any correlation is purely coincidental
and non-intentional

[Lara]

Yay!

Well done Ollie. Good to see the whole community is being represented. Very interesting issues, especially the discussion of a 'feminine'(?) style- are we as vjs creating imagery most in tune with the music we accompany, what other themes unite and divide us? It is good to demystify the issues surrounding female vjs and also share some of the different experiences female vjs have come across.

;)

[holly]

Definitely a good topic that we've been saying here. Count me in! (hope ntsc DVD is ok...?) No sex/gender differences are 100%, but there are noticable differences. Should be interesting, especially in open discussion.

[oxygen]

indeed, great topic!
i will send some work too.
must admit i also like novembers' theme as well!!!
--> (the body in movement ..)

[Anyone]

thanks for your comments...

(Laura you're so quick... your reply was litteraly post 10 seconds after mine!)

Ne1

[Kproject]

Keep the good work Oli!
I was wandering if is it a screening night or an event with performances?

And like Holly asked, does a DVD NTSC is ok for you?

Val
K-project

[Anyone]

Originally posted by Kproject
I was wandering if is it a screening night or an event with performances?
And like Holly asked, does a DVD NTSC is ok for you?


Hi Val,
No, VJ Culture is strictly about screenings...

NTSC DVDs are fine

note: home made DVDs can be a problem sometimes
but check if it works on a DVD player (not just a computer)
if it works on your player, it should work on mine...

Ne1

[RayV]

wooo
Just got back from a 4 nights Trance festival in... Serbia
will definetly send you my demo, though I feel I ran into hardship @ times coz being a girl, I rather prefer to b consider as a VJ
(a good one if possibale) & not coz I'm a VJ girl.. but mayb I'm wrong & our work is influance from the gender aspect,
Good we will have a chance to meet & discuss it all !

hope to b able to catch up with u guys
Ray-V
:nod:

[Anyone]

peeps, get those vids flying!

deadline is now approching fast (8th August)...

so again, anybody that is :

a girl solo VJ (like eirinah, Lara, Holly...)
or a girl VJ part of a mixed VJ collective (like K-projet, Metaluna, Overlap...)
or an all girl VJ collective (like, er, who out there would fit this description?)

is eligible!

once again here are the guidelines below.

thanks! ne1:D

**********
Works should not exceed 10 minutes
and must be sent on one of the following formats:
VHS, SVHS, miniDV (pal), Beta, BetaSP, DVD.

Please include personal details,
ie names, description of your work,
if possible, your account of working
in a disproportionably male environment.

Deadline: Friday 8 August 2003, 5 PM

Send material to:
ICA Cinema
FAO Olivier Sorrentino / VJ Culture
12 Carlton House Terrace
London SW1Y 5AH
UK

The screening will be punctuated by
presentations of participating VJs (if present)
and discussions with the audience.

**********

[k8eepants]

given that the current worry in education is how to get boys to achieve as high as girls, what happens to all these bright young women when they leave school? girls are better at technical subjects too now...what happens to them when they hit the work market?
i've met so few women in this line of work....but have met no resistance to my being part of it...is it just that they don't know about it?
having fallen into vjing by accident ( a friend said, here have a go at this, you'll like it, you're arty...put me on an mx50 at a weekender on a saturday night) i do wonder how you'd get into it, without the luck i had.....
and is it just a question of choices? do more girls leave school and decide to be mothers?...is it still just a question of equal parenting? i'm a mum, so this a big issue for me!
all said, all i know is that enough people have said they like what i do because it's feminine... i dont really like all the cgi abstract stuff(although i mix with it a lot!) and the stuff i make is trying hard not to be like that....hoping to grab enough time to crop a snippet of stuff to send in

[holly]

I think it's a UK thing. Here in NYC there are lotsa female VJs. Our first DVD is coming out and out of 6 VJ teamsor solos only 1 doesn't have a female componant. This week's EyeWash also features 2 (out of 4) female or "female-included" VJs. The only comments I've ever gotten for being a female VJ (positive or negative) were here on this forum, and both negative comments were from Irishmen :confused: Whatever.

Over here it doesn't even seem to be an issue, although a few of us have discussed the gender differences (not in an official way). I understand why some women wouldn't want to be considered a "girl VJ" as the submission call asks for, but I just don't see women being any more than a slight minority here.

Looks like I'm not making it for this submission, but the next one sounds maybe even more interesting for me personally: body in motion.

What ARE you showing K8?

[Anyone]

thanks for your comments ladies,

may I mention these at VJ Culture?

Ne1

[azart]

Find that funny, especially after the vj forum at Big Chill! seems that the girls have a lot to say (or to prove) It seems that there is still a lot of questioning and an lot to prove by man.woman! why don't we rather focus on harmony and balance :)


I can not change history! and I think I understand most of what woman are going through! (especially with the ladzz...) but somehow I am getting tired of that woman/man thing! My mum was hardcore militant and feninist :) so the topic feels a bit old! but before you jump on your chair! I know that there is still a lot to say about it! But sometimes I the focus should not questions other topics..

anyway! I am sure it would be refreshing to focus on 'Females VJ's' I am looking forward to see what is happening on 'the other side' :) and maybe meet some of you wonderful ladies :)

and to reassure you :) man woman or what ever! what convinces me is good attitude! :) a passion for beauty and communications :) and obviusoly and most importantly, a sense of good vibe!

I am sure we could randomly select work from woman and man!!! without telling anyone! then ask? as this been created by a man or a woman?
how can you tell??? I am sure a lot of people would get it wrong :) in quite a few cases anyway :)

Peace

azart

[Anyone]

Originally posted by azart
I am sure we could randomly select work from woman and man!!! without telling anyone! then ask? as this been created by a man or a woman?
how can you tell??? I am sure a lot of people would get it wrong :) in quite a few cases anyway :)


maybe, maybe not
or
the truth is noboby knows

These comments are all good in theory, but I am more of a practical person.
come to VJ culture 03 and find out for yourself...



:) :) Ne1

[holly]

Actually Azart, they'd probably get it right 75% of the time..., at least that's what I've seen.

Women create content, men play with fx. This is a super-over-simplification but from what we've been seeing here in NYC it falls along those lines. In fact, in two of the male/female duos I know of, the female creates the first feed and the male puts fx on it (MOSTRA, and KIJK&LUISTER) with a second computer. In others (FEEDBUCK GALORE) the female creates most of the (camera) content and the male usually performs it. Why? I dunno. I happen to enjoy making content more than performing it. A few of the guys here have said they prefer performing than creating.... The few times I've informally teamed up with someone like Josh Goldberg I just fed him bluescreen video of me dancing and he broke me into a million fractals. I was very happy about that. The idea of filling the screen with shapes and colors and layer after layer seems to be almost exclusively male, but the idea of minimalism isn't exclusively female (although women do seem to stop sooner).

I don't think there's a major esoteric statement to be made here, unless you are in the UK where women seem to be ignored or bullied out of performing. We're also largely an arts-based scene rather than a club-based scene, and I can guess there might be an old-boy network in clubs that doesn't exist in the arts.

A lot (not all, but a lot) of the femme VJs seem to approach VJing as an extension of photography. Others treat it as an extension of dance or live performance or fashion (expression through costume). They incorporate a lot of human elements in their work, if not their own bodies specifically. They show relationships between people or heirarchies or often play with cliches of society. The men tend to work with repeatitive designs, objects (toys-machines, airplanes, especially robots and other boyhood fantasies), and distortion fx. I feel that men approach VJing as an extension of multi-media programming. If there is a cam shot clearly showing a person smiling and eating cake chances are it comes from a woman. If there is a bunch of psychedelic shapes with layers of fx or a lensflair so strong it almost blots out the subject chances are it comes from a man.

There are exceptions of course. I've seen she-geeks whose work is just as grungy, abstracted, and fxed as the boys (LU(X)Z, CHIAKE WATANABE). Ironically, or perhaps for practicality's sake the she-geeks' chose to fit in, use the same tools (software apps), and arrive at the same look as the scene they emerged from. They tend to have been in their laptop scene longer, so it may just be the results of sharing tools, software, and a common venue, and everyone arrived with a similar look - male and female. This would be different from a female artist who picks up VJ later in her career, who might be more familiar with "female art tools" like cameras, dance, or fashion. The she-geeks (and I know I'll get flack for naming them that, but whatever) have almost no experience or interest in "female art tools" and can tweek software FX as well as any guy.

At least one male VJ (VJ MOTO) whose content is specifically conceptual and content driven, is an exception to male VJs being abstract or gadget-driven. See Qrime.com to know what I mean.

Some VJisms work against these gender biases. Since heavily layered abstractions are a staple of VJ vernacular, most women incorporate a large element of this, at least as backgrounds (like K8eepants says). Likewise, the "dancing female" clip is such a cliche that most men will have at least one version of a woman dancing to put in his set. Being female doesn't mean you are forbidden from playing with the same tools as the guys, but there tends to be a focus on the world outside of the computer rather than what the specific software can do. In my personal experience, women punters like my VJ enough to comment on it (more so than men). They seem to be suprised by the content and I guess it "speaks to them". They also enjoy that it is usually me in the content ("That's YOU!"). Guys often don't realize the woman on the screens is the same as me (like I would pay someone to parade around in a nurse's uniform...). Male VJs are often sort of stumped. Since they are largely from an app-generating or AVS software based rig, or putting heavy FX or distortions on clips, there is really no comparison between what I am doing and what they are accustomed to thinking of as VJ.

Sorry to not be involved in this one Oli. I had mapped out examples from my own work but then got swamped with our dvd (ugh, I need an assistant and 2 more computers) and by the time I was free to finish it shipping to London was $70! Ouch! Ironically, I think I have more to say with "body in motion" so I won't be waiting for express shipping on the next one. Use any of my blatherings you want. Almost all the vjs I mentioned here have links from my website. Thanks again. Hope you have a great debate!

[azart]

I think you are living in a world of cliches!

it might have been an exception! but last week i was actually nect to a girl mixing! anyway! enough of pigeon holes :) I will stay ignorant and hidden in my world of exceptions!

I see what you mean buy boys!!! we're not all the same :)

peace

azart

[complexvisuals]

Boy VJs Are MUCH better than Girl VJs.

Cian

[holly]

Boys go to Jupiter to get more stupider...
Girls go to Mars and eat candybars...
:p Nyaaah.

I think you are living in a world of cliches!

Uh, no. I said that nothing is 100% but if you start looking for gender differences you can easily find them. Are you saying it's a cliche because you don't believe there are significant differences or are you saying this because of all the femme VJs you've watched perform you've never noticed anything? How many times has a male VJ from the UK decided that I must be showing butterflies and teddy bears, or that I'd relate to some cartoon about a housewife cleaning up after her husband??? I'm not going to bother to link to the specific instances on this forum, but suffice to say these assumptions are retarded. I'd guess that 50% of men usually are completely unaware of any gender differences at all until they are angrily confronted by a woman who doesn't like being treated as "one of the guys" or doesn't feel she should be expected to do what most guys are doing. They just label her a "bitch" and never bother to think about it again. I'd also say 75% of women would ignore such dorky comments or simply loose interest in participating in the discussion. A few would be totally suprised by it, and a few would tell you you're wrong.

Pretending there are no differences, or simply not seeing any differences at all makes me think you are just not paying attention, or possibly haven't seen enough female VJs to draw any conclusions. The differences are not like "pink vs blue" or "robots vs barbie dolls". THAT's the cliche ? and it's a specificly male cliche. If it was a suprise or unusual for you to be next to a female VJ then maybe Anyone's topic isn't out of the blue, maybe not your choice for a discussion, but I'm guessing when you line them all up you will start to see gender patterns emerge (that's the point, isn't it?). I would guess there are a lot more cammie femme-VJs than AVS femme-VJs, and the opposite would be true for the guys, but how would you know until you start looking? As I said before, it wouldn't really be a relevant "VJ" topic here in NYC because female VJs are not at all unusual, unless you just wanted to discuss the differences between men and women which could be applied almost anywhere to any topic.

Maybe a sub-topic for this discussion would not be "Which is better...", but "Are female VJs more artsy and male VJs more clubby...? And does that effect how many female VJs are hired by clubs?" Since women were asked to submit and discuss, don't you think that more interesting issues (specific to women in the business) will come up than silly cliches?

FEMINIST MODE ON:
What I do find strange is that you guys keep calling them "girl VJs";) . I also find it interesting that "boys" seem to keep insisting there are no differences (or that any differences would be so minor or cosmetic as to be irrelevant), while plenty of women are interested in discussing the topic. Again, nothing is 100%, but denial is a form of censorship.
FEMINIST MODE OFF.:p

[k8eepants]

wow.....lots to chew on..yes i myself am tired of whole gender thing, but it was the first thread i felt like introducing myself on! as i said( i think), i've never encountered any problems being a woman in this business, but i also dont want to be considered a "female"vj... i also dont want to call myself a "vj", but i think thats another thread,eh?.( yes, please feel free to quote me, and i'm hoping to come to the event as its in the neighborhood,kindof).as for the live show.well the lads tend to the computer input and i mix it up with dvd sources film based stuff and effects machines.but its not cut and dried, we dont have a schedule and its much more of a collaborative thing which is exciting cos i dont have to wait the ages it takes me to learn a new bit of software.i can just say "how about this..."and someone else inputs it.playing to our strengths........but yeah....mostly i do the film bits and the lads do the software..........as for what i show?blimey.....in a sentence? without sounding pretentious? i'm not sure if i can,but i'll have a go.....i'm more interested in storytelling i guess,and when i'm mixing over a while weekend, well its gotta have some kind of progression otherwise i'll go to sleep......also the brain seems to need something it can recognise and name, i dont think audiences can respond to computer abstraction all night.... i like pretty stuff....maybe that sounds cheesy, but it looks fantastic.... my solo company name was icandy, cos i think that sums it up.(i stole it from damien hirst before finding the filters!!!!)....macro photography shown huge...you cant beat it, and there's plenty of scope for visual contradiction with it....i like real stuff given a subtle twist.....i like fast stroboscopic illegally subliminal niceness......i really dont like pictures of bombs, guns, violence.its boring and old news for one....i think we have a responsibility for what we show and we should be aware of that at all times.......we can use what we do to spread positivity and all of that stuff without preaching..........at the moment i'm going back to basics and shooting flowers and working with that...............porn.hmm, well...........porn needs to be used sparingly and with irony and awareness...some women really hate it and ya gotta respect that.i've shot some porn, sometimes of myself, sometimes with friends, so its mine to use and the girls and i had a laugh and a half so it didnt feel like exploitation, but its a big issue and too easy when it comes to visuals, dont you think?
yeah, the dancing girl thing!!! hahaha so funny cos we're working on a total overload of that at the moment .....sort of ironic.......funny thing is how its so rare that anyone gets it, really...u put all the thought and effort in and it doesnt really register,everyone's too wasted!but i've done the pure art approach too and that was more unsatisfying, less real.....at the end of the day, i'm there to make it look pretty.....so i do that......
yep it is strange how you can usually tell...i like the idea of showing stuff and getting people to guess the sex of the artist, tho, that sounds like fun!! can we have prizes!!
also like the she geek moniker.....u'll get no flak from me,i think thats funny........

[Anyone]

wow
things are getting hot in here.

I've just reminded myself of a reply I've sent to ***** a while back:

"if girls are the same as boys, why are we not all bi-sexuals?"

Anyhow,
in this thread, "girls" seems to be much more verbally inclined...
much more text... that's one difference.
As some may have noticed I dont verbalise as much...

Yes Holly, do count on me quoting you a few times.
we will use you as a reference:p

Peace out
ne1

[azart]

easy :)

didn't mean to go through the last 2000 years :)

the last moving images produced by the lab (mainly boys) include trees, lotus flowers, beautiful abstract compositions! ans I also have to admit some deathbots :)

I understand your points! :) and as mentiones earlier on :) I have spent 20 years with a hardcore feminist :) my mum :) so please understand that if I think I understand the issues! I would rather keep creating than arguing :)

:) Girl Power! :) Keep going and give us a lesson :)

what a joke! like if I hadn't ever noticed that girls and boys were different?
aren't we all after love :)

anyway! please give up the boy girl thing away! I don't personally want to argue! let's be positive and keep working on good stuff :)

bu again, that's a good example! I think that girls have still definitely something to prove, and they are definitly figting for it!!!

don't get ne wrong I won't stop u! but again! I'll try to stay alive in my idealistic world of exceptions :) what I mean by that!!! exceptions are good!
and boys love life and nature too :) or maybe I'm a woman in man's body? :)

it takes everything to make a world :)
peace and love :)

luv ya :)

azart

[azart]

also, please understand my sense of humour and don't take it too seriously!
and yes I know its serious!!!

However, I'll leave it to the critique to decide if its art, vj, woman, man, patriarcal or what ever!!! again, too many pigeon holes here!!!

girls arte and boy club vj????? man!!!! we can give up on that one...
you'll call me a vj if I'm in a club? and an artists if i'm in an art gallery?
tell me? I don't think that my approach in clubs is very different from my art! my canvas is people and spaces!!! and I love collaborating with other souls!!!
I really can't be bothered to hink, I'm vj tonight, artist tomorrow, designer on Monday! ??? that would be far too narrow minded for me!

i don't have time for that! I have spent 12 years in art with intellectuals!!!
what about the medium etc????

I've learned a lot from it! but I believe that feelings are far mor abstract and complexe that words/language by their organic nature....

words are not good enough!!! unless you are a genius!!! and that's not my case :)

I'll go with the flow :)
My emotional intelligence feeds me and guides me through some very beautiful and deep experiences!

Peace

azart

[littlecatalyst]

Originally posted by holly
We're also largely an arts-based scene rather than a club-based scene, and I can guess there might be an old-boy network in clubs that doesn't exist in the arts.

?? i'd say it's a littel-boy network that rules the clubs...if you want a real old boy network do look at the art world.... (ok maybe not on the underground and in nascent scenes... but jeeezuz the rest of the art whirrled is chock full of moldy old boys, the critics, the young (i.e. 35+) artists..... sure the odd gal(*) gets in, but the only old boy network i have seen that is more flagrant than that, is the big-pen, big-cigar chompin' corpo execs.....



(*is gal better than girl?... i mean boy/women is a bad combo, and since boy is brandied about, no complaints, i thought maybe gal is ok....)

[holly]

Geez, shut up. I posted something long because I wanted Anyone to have some directions to pull the conversation at ICA besides "Is this girl or boy" and "who is better" which seemed to be the only questions that were brought up here (by guys). Everytime the topic comes up some guys pop out of the woodwork to talk about themselves. It's nice, you know, but a little OFF TOPIC since you wouldn't really have the perspective that would add to the discussion, eh? Talking about the world YOU live in is not the same as hearing from a woman's perspective and experience. Yer Mom sounds nice but she's not a VJ (or is she?) so I'm guessing she taught you about life but not about the issues specific to our format. Now you think we are ranting so whatever. Obviously discussing is the same as being out of control hysterical so I'll ignore this thread until it sinks back down to nothingness.

Very nice to meet K8eepants and hear a similar experience from across the pond! At least she posted first time, so that's a PLUS! Nice to meet you too Azart. I'm sure we'll talk again on mutual subjects.

Oh, and Lil'Cat, yeah obviously I was talking about our little scene, not the Whitney or the Guggenheim or the MOMA. No one I know is there yet, although Skyvat and Saccade played at Lincoln Center recently....

[Rovastar]

Originally posted by holly
How many times has a male VJ from the UK decided that I must be showing butterflies and teddy bears, or that I'd relate to some cartoon about a housewife cleaning up after her husband??? I'm not going to bother to link to the specific instances on this forum, but suffice to say these assumptions are retarded.

Hol surely you know I was only doing it in jest that is why I post them ott. :love2::love: Please I was not serious.

I am actualy curious about the style (if any noticable one) myself.

I know (that online knowing someone you have never met) a few females that create visualization stuff but there are not many.
Rozzer who does some of the MilKDrop presets is one and there are a couple of AVS'ers I beleive.

No-one to my knowledge making Visualizations proper. It is (was :( ) a male dominated arena. Maybe it is too much on the programming side I dunno.

Oli I could rally support up I suppose from the AVS community of female preset authors. Would that be something you would be interested in.

But to me the style is no different. In fact sometimes not as aesthically pleasing as I would have expected actually some are pretty dark actually.

[Anyone]

OK this is just too much for me...

this exchange is going nowhere except in circles
and I've had enough of UK VJs being obnoxious

it seems female VJs cant talk amongs themselves
without a pletora of males with too much time on their hands
listening in and pouring oil on the fire

Sorry girls, I tried to offer a platfrom,
but now I'm taking it away...

:eek:VJC TOP GUYS:eek:
can you close this thread please?

Ne1

Ps I'll post a new thread later announcing the results of VJ Culture 03...

[azart]

well, I think its sad! you want take the topic off! I understand its getting hot in there! but it might take a bit more talking to get some good ideas of this!
well you call! your topic!

by the way! thanks for my mum! I see you don't get the point!
you're probably narrowing the topic down there!

Vj is just a technical word as far as I know! we could be a lot more philosophical that this!

You can do you mental masturbation talking about the medium and the meaning behind it! personally, I've left the arte farte talk! I am tired of it!

its about doing it!

The world is a big place!
peace to everyone!!!

[holly]

I know you were joking Rova, and you actually inspired me to make a kick-ass psychedelic butterfly because of that comment. I haven't figured out a way to make puffy hearts, but after sparing with you it made me think up all these girly-cliches that would be funny (at least for me) to explore.:love: :nod:
But to me the style is no different. In fact sometimes not as aesthically pleasing as I would have expected actually some are pretty dark actually.
See, my question here is if is not as aesthitically pleasing to you, maybe the same is true for male club promoters ? BUT what if other women (punters) like it better? Like, does a woman naturally appreciate another woman's aesthetic? Or is there a style that appeals to a woman that does not appeal to a guy? We all know what a chick-flick is, is there a VJ equivelant? I get compliments on my sets from more women than men. Why? Is it because I ignore men when they try to talk to me?:p Or do women see something unusual they don't get from a guy VJ? Is there a way to convince a promoter that HE may not like the female VJ aesthetic, but the women in the club DO, and there are plenty of clubs that cater to women (free admission, free drinks) to keep the ladies happy because they know the guys will follow. Is there a female market to exploit?

Even you, Rova, once said you started adding butterflies to your set once you discovered the ladies liked it.... My point is, it's not for a guy to understand or like the aesthetic, it's for a VJ to expand his arsinal, provide what the punters want, make the promoters happy, and cash the big check at the end of the night. If understanding a female aesthetic is a draw, then we should explore it. I'm the last person who wants to play at a hen party! I don't see this as only of interest to female VJs, but we hear again and again women saying they are not as into the videogame grafix as the guys. Well, what ARE women into? What do they like? If it's just a matter of adding a few tricks to make the other half happy, isn't that a good thing for everyone?

[Rovastar]

Oli sorry if you thought I derailed your thread (again) I did not mean too.

I was honestly trying to help and all I said was I didn't notice any difference in the visuals. It doesn't matter who makes tehm I was just trying to give a insight to another branch of female visuals.

Maybe it is just harder to make female looking swirlies. Dunno. don't even know what they are? :confused:

SOrry if teh discriptions sounded negative about Rozzers work it was not meant to be. It is difficut to describe at the best of times.
But sometiems there were a bit frantic and not as smooth as I would normally like.

Hol I know they would like the butterflies babe. :) But if I really wanted to get them all excited maybe I should take a leaf out of your book and film myself and put it up on the big screen. :) in for a treat their.


OK sorry Oli moved off topic now. :eek:

[Anyone]

come on guys,

Rova I know you're smarter than this cheeky persona you project...
just let it go for a while...

Azart I don't really care if you're mama's a feminist,
she's not a VJ, is she?

I read somewhere that the definition of a geek is someone
that cant stand being told something he(she) knows already.

this kind of person goes through life saying "I know, I know"
never to find out that other to stop a conversation at some known fact,
a few sentences later might be leading to new discoveries...

be patient...
Ne1

[Lara]

I am pleased to say that in the vj workshops Michaelheap and I have been teaching this week, 6/8 were girls, and they have been making some really good work. Maybe the balance is significantly changing . . . . ? I'd agree that male/female divides are perhaps for the minute a bit of a UK problem. It is a shame that chauvinism is an accepted mode of being here. I have lost count of the times that I have been talked over and ignored in conversations about vjing, lol to get the mike at the Big Chill debate was brilliant! Still, there have been a few really hurtful things, a friend of mine asked another vj what he thought of my visuals . . . to which he replied that he didn't care about my visuals but my 'other assets' were great.

That attitude says it all. To be unwilling to consider someone's work because they are a femme is criminal; and to top it off with such a cheesey line is pants. Suffice to say the 'friend' was actually an ex of mine who set him straight about a few things :D Wish I had been there.

Now I am not bashing blokes here, I am close friends with some lovely lovely male vjs who treat me with respect. But for all you guys who don't believe that sexism is out there then that is just one of my experiences. There seems to be a deep rooted sexism across 'avant-garde' graphics in London especially, I see these discussions about gender and ethnicity permeate the graphics, advertising and music video scene. This year the one dot zero festival had special discussions and showcases supporting women creating motion graphics.

Sexism doesn't put me off doing what I want to do, but I am afraid that it will put off other women/girls. It would be a shame if only a particular type of woman succeeds in this business, because I think it should be open to all. I think blokes have to moderate the tech talk in order to encourage more femmes. I'm not saying change, but there's nothing worse than feeling persecuted because you don't know or care about the new DHGKR WKSPCPM 10,0000. :cool:

Sorry rant over.

[azart]

Anyone, think there is a misunderstanding!

my mum's not Vj you're right! My comments on my mum was about feminism, and I was expressing my view on the topic! which I think is interesting! but not the most interesting! I am more interested in universal themes and contemporary themes that the gender thing! saying this it is definitely part of the picture.

also, I do not think that being a Vj is about beign a VJ as a mean to an end!that sounds too technical! I might be too spiritual to be technical! but it's about the experience and the meaning behind it! the reason for doing it! and the vibe you get out of it! what my mum's good at tho! Is to focus on spiritual experiences and totally free thinking by bringing self confidence and love through all kind of exercises and theories! For children and adults! in all layers of societys!

Can you heal people through VJ sessions and club experience?

Also, I was reacting to some of the girls comments about the VJ BOYS who requested butterflys or are simply interested by effects! They also mentioned that woman were not taken seriously!

I am not a woman! and I might have not experience this! so I'm not in the best position to talk about this! But I have worked with quite a few girls! and a- I have never requested anything else that them being themsleves! I am not there to stop them working on their own stuff and i will always support man and woman to share the views and feeling to the world!
and that goes beyond the man or woman thing! or writer, VJ or what ever! It is a universal need and feeling!

b- It doesn't make any difference to me if its man or woman! we're all souls in bodies! and that goes deeper that the gender thing! I agree there is a lot of machos out there! and the comments at the VJ forum at the big chill about girls needing to to chicken vodoo ceremonies to get the computers to work where a bit out of place!

you also have to understand that I have the right to react to the girls inputs regarding cliches and differences between boys and girls!

I'll invite you to look at our site on http://az2lab.com

some definitely boys stuff! But you will also notice a lot of beauty that goes far beyond effects in our work (mainly boys)

also, its easy to say that 'BOYS' Don't have any perspective on the topic!
There is a lot of us thiking hard about today's societys and media in general.

Holly is right, some questions are specific to the format! But through my 11 years of Art! I have felt that people where to focused on the format and technique, not enough on the meaning! Archetypes and Universal icons will exist in any and accross all mediums!

It seems that VJ's are a bit Like new media designers where a few years ago! Think they're at the centre of the world! I apologize for more generalities there! But you can feed yourself with words, images, air, food or what ever!

The Human soul will never be happy without spiritual balance! I am more interested truying to understand how the soul works! and how to balance contemprary imagery and modes of communications through the diffusion/radiation of free energy! as opposed to commercialy controlled!
Also, How Can you influence the soul in a VJ format?

It's not about Vj man! Vj is a space! The soul goes through all spaces! and reflects like light! Vj is only one elemnt of it! and man and woman are only reflections or each other!

Vj is just another form for the soul to express and reflect itsel!

You choose your center and focus in life! Occident is very good at this! being really clever technically and really analytical! But very often i believe they're wasting their time for a simple reason! The wrong center our focus! The lack of 'sacred'. No harmony! No believe, no respect!

So telling my mum! or anyone's comments would be out of the picture! would be like ignoring the rest of the world! we're talking ideology aren't we?
so why stop the topic!

nothing personal man! Just another example of 2 people talking together! with different views and minds!

Have heard you at the Big Chill by the way! thought your comments were interesting! I reallly respect the fact that you're pushing thing!

But dont tell me that feminism is out of the question!

Especially after reading the various comments!

Peace

azart:confused:

[k8eepants]

judging by the amount of replies, i guess this isnt such a sad old topic after all
never had lame talkback like lara's experience.....( grrrr in empathy).. but..... watching an idea of mine take 2 years to go through the guyapproval blockade and emerge with someone ( male) else's name on it? that stung a bit....(it was a great idea too and looked wicked......dont they say the reward of patience is patience?)
i've worked thru the dodgy comments about my ability to rig, the " not bad for a bird" badge i wear with pride( ok, ironic pride, but revolutions are won from the inside)..
my interest was caught because i have NEVER worked alongside another female vj and know only a handful of women who work in the industry...yet i know lots of women in the arts side of video... why is this?. glad to hear things are different over the water!
and yes, i do think there's a little boys network in the clubbing side of things, but i've had an awful lot of encouragement from the lads too...men, quite happy to let me know how good it is to see a woman in the business...
nice to meet you all...its been interesting, educational and silly.... a good combo!
looking forward to the ica do now

[Lara]

see you there k8eepants for further discussion ;)

[unjulation]

ne1 :- i was thinking about closeing this at your request or moveing it to anouther space because your origional thred about a spercific event has been hijacked but not because of the topic and the way it has run itself per-say but judgeing by the responses i think this is as good a place as anyware and there are obviousley things people need to say

but as my two peneth worth there realy are diferances between males and females, i'm not going to touch on the spiritual side hear because i dont think anciant peolples belife system in rationilizing the world and in tern them selves has a place hear, but lets be real our own indervidual psycho-biological make up makes use who we are and yes ther are definate diferances between the sex's which in tern will manifest themselves in our perceptions and understangs of the world, and these will also be expressed in our actions and in tern our dealings with the world, now as all things hear in this world we have been created by the mixing of two diferant and probably quite random gean strings so ther will be a mixing of these two sex's with some caractistics of each comeing to the for within the ofspring that is created

so what relevance does this have?

well basicly surley untill we acept that there are diferances between males and females, and in tern understand that we as a perticular sex will percive the same and the oposit sex diferantley, we as inderviduals will (probably) continue to create this mess that we are now discusing, for sureley it is through the understanding of our selves and in tern outhers, that we can see the diferances that there are and (celebrate/acknowlage?) them, that will allow us to move on and get out of this age old conflict, wether within the work place, whatever work that may be, to the home life to the extened family to the overall social set up

after that we can get on with the important things in life like drinking beer and smokeing fags ;)

till next time..........

[azart]

peace :)
long life to the soul!!!!

[holly]

Wow. Are guys really that obnoxious in the old country? Ugh. You can keep yer tourist dollars. I have lost almost all respect for the UK. ?Except that Anyone keeps fighting to keep this alive and that's a very cool thing. I know he hires a lot of femmes to play his gigs so he must just be a really exceptional person for his element (not that I didn't feel that before).

You know I was sort of wondering about the format at ICA, like how can you have a debate about female VJs without showing male VJs right alongside, but now I'm thinking maybe there should be a skirtcheck at the door or something because UK guys really seem to have a problem and maybe shouldn't even be allowed in the door:confused:. There has never been an American male VJ, or Aussie, or German..., to make (and adamantly continue to badger the point) these retarded comments here on VJf as far back as I can remember.... And then they deny it!!?? Like here's Rova (and I'm just singling you out cause I know you can take it, Rova) saying he's never noticed any difference and then in the same sentance says femme-style is not to his taste and too dark. Like, ok, which is it: no difference or not to your taste and too dark? It's like UK guys don't even know what they are saying because it's so cultural or something.

Azart, Dude! I'm not a guy and I'm not a "neuter-spirit" ? as anybody here can tell you. I don't need to be told I'm the same as you because that just let's me know you are a little naive about certain types of frontier gals from Texas. You know, I come from a long line of "Do it My Way" Women and my grandmother was notorious for picking up a shovel and chasing people off her property. My Mum was the same, my sister too, and now here's me learning to temper that and trying to tone it down with the help of the guys on VJf. This is not about me, but Dude, sometimes you gotta listen to what people are saying and set aside your own personal beliefs. Saying we're all neuter-spirits is the same as saying "why can't women act more like men", and the answer is: cause I don't wanna, I don't hafta, and I ain't gonna! Can't speak for the other ladies present, but where I come from women are ballbusters and women take charge and women fight for change every day, while the men are a bit status quo and complacent.

Sometimes it's good to be corporeal and feel the estrogen rage, the T&A, the power of the pussy, and know that you make a man your property and that's the way he likes it. That's what my life is about and that's what my art is about, too. Once I'm dead and floating around sans-estro we'll see if I tone it down and become more neuter, but until then viva-la-WOMAN!

[Rovastar]

Originally posted by holly

You know I was sort of wondering about the format at ICA, like how can you have a debate about female VJs without showing male VJs right alongside, but now I'm thinking maybe there should be a skirtcheck at the door or something because UK guys really seem to have a problem and maybe shouldn't even be allowed in the door:confused:. There has never been an American male VJ, or Aussie, or German..., to make (and adamantly continue to badger the point) these retarded comments here on VJf as far back as I can remember.... And then they deny it!!?? Like here's Rova (and I'm just singling you out cause I know you can take it, Rova) saying he's never noticed any difference and then in the same sentance says femme-style is not to his taste and too dark. Like, ok, which is it: no difference or not to your taste and too dark? It's like UK guys don't even know what they are saying because it's so cultural or something.



First off


Hol I was refering to online works where in the online world of nicknames I do not know if they are male or female and do not notice the difference. If I showed you randomly many different pics/clips and asked you are they male or female I imagine you would find it hard to judge also.

If I had to make a guess then the few known female authors out there I would have said where male but some are not.

BTW it is dark not as in colour like black but dark as in maybe creepy content. The scenes are ok but IMHO lack a little clarity. But criticism is not to do with the sex of the author. Why do you think it is?

Has the UK really go that bad impression regarding female VJ from this forum. :confused: I don't care as long as they ae good but I am not going to be non-critical just because they are female?!

I beleive you are looking for a problem Holly when there is none there.

[azart]

sorry I just give up!
Think you didn't get my point but that's ok!

dont have time to fight!

Good luck!

[azart]

QUOTE :

"Azart, Dude! I'm not a guy and I'm not a "neuter-spirit" ? as anybody here can tell you. I don't need to be told I'm the same as you because that just let's me know you are a little naive about certain types of frontier gals from Texas. You know, I come from a long line of "Do it My Way" Women and my grandmother was notorious for picking up a shovel and chasing people off her property. My Mum was the same, my sister too, and now here's me learning to temper that and trying to tone it down with the help of the guys on VJf. This is not about me, but Dude, sometimes you gotta listen to what people are saying and set aside your own personal beliefs. Saying we're all neuter-spirits is the same as saying "why can't women act more like men", and the answer is: cause I don't wanna, I don't hafta, and I ain't gonna! Can't speak for the other ladies present, but where I come from women are ballbusters and women take charge and women fight for change every day, while the men are a bit status quo and complacent."

by the way! i wasn't asking you to change or agree! its a shame you take it so personally! I can too.. express my views? or is it a NO BOY FORUM! if thats the case you should have warned me!

regarding complacency! before you even bother pointing your finger! make sure you know me first!

I think you too should maybe listen to what people have to say!
I was expressing my view that all!

And talking about the bigger soul! very sad for you you don't get it! it's not about genders! its not even about races! its about the whole!

keep fighting!
but not with me!

the world is a big place :)
make sure you don't step on my feet :)

Peace

azart

[Lara]

Rovastar:

"I beleive you are looking for a problem Holly when there is none there."

Um, that was the point of my post Rova, not to sling mud, but to show the blokes who think there is no problem that it is a different reality out there for female vjs. Other men might not have a problem with YOUR work, but they might have with mine. Clearly no-one is saying not to critique the work of women because they are women, that's the slant you put onto the discussion.

I don't know, when people are not even prepared to accept that there's a problem or a difference in attitudes, how are we ever supposed to get anywhere?

Hmm, have to be thankful for the progressive ways of people like Vj Anyone, who is certainly giving so much to the community. I have made loads of links with other lovely female vjs because of this thread, and even though wildly off topic, that was sort of the point ;) Thanks! :alien:

[azart]

hello everyone :)

I understand there is a lot of differences out there! its not about not accepting them or not wanting to listen!
It's about telling girls, that we are not all the same! so no more generalities please :)

I also think that its moving on :)
the proof is in the pudding!

I don't underestimate woman at all! I listen a lot to them!
also, Anyone's' a bloke? isn't it? SO I am sure that's another good fact to prove that we're not all unaware or unwilling to listen!

peace!

Hope to meet you soon VJ's :)
because I'm sure I am worth it :)
ah just kidding :)

Keep up the good work!
Beautiful to see the community active!


azart;)

[Anyone]

maybe we should go to one of the "meeting point" threads
and say to those langage based topics and start saying stuff like

"there's no difference between english and greek (or other, put language here),
in terms of culture or visual style, so why don't you all
quit your rambling and speak english"

See how well that goes down...

the point is,
maybe the differences are not huge
maybe there arent any.
still people will enjoy talking to others
that have things in common.

communication flows in a different way
than when in the neutral universal common ground
no question about it
and that's a good thing...

personally I only like one thing: variety.

Ne1

[Anyone]

ok everyone,

here is the final line up for VJ Culture 03 : Female VJs Unite

**********

- Introduction of VJ Culture Programmed Theme
- Presentation of Programmed Works by Attending VJs

-Screening 01 : Narrative

Silent Eclipse (UK) /// No More War /// 6.00 min
FunkCutter (UK) /// Useless Prick /// 8.00 min

-Discussion

-Screening 02 : VJing as an interim artform

Chiaki Watanabe (US) /// Beta /// 2.00 min
Chiaki Watanabe (US) /// Delta /// 3.00 min
Sygee (UK) /// Nails /// 4.30 min
Cicada (AU) /// Beasty Grrl /// 2.05 min

-Discussion

-Screening 03 : VJ Performance Archives

MetaLuna (UK) /// Showreel /// 1.20 min
Fong (DE) /// Videokonferenz /// 2.30 min
SDNA (UK) /// Showreel (excerpt) /// 3.00 min
K-Project (CA) /// Showreel /// 7.40 min
Zanne (NL) /// Performance Archive /// 8.00 min
Eve Hurford (DE) /// Live Video Mix /// 6.00 min

-Discussion
-Future Events Announcements

[vchunk]

I am a vj (both with club residencies and gallery showings) of the female gender and this is my first post - just got caught up in reading this debate
and it's pressing on me to say a few words ...mainly why i would not want to participate in an event focussing on female vj's.

a big question missing is what qualifies a submission being accepted by the curator, apart from being a female - what are his guidelines for quality? if my gender fits the brief than does any shit i send in automatically get screened? Can i submit if my idea of VJing is to press play on a hollywood dvd?
VJing is not only a question of creating content, but mixing it well - my live mixes include work from all sorts of artists which might teach you more about my tastes than my identity as a female! Is my mixing the female part - or can you spot the girly content in one of the sevaral layers being projected?

Being female has never been an issue at work for me - apart from simply noticing that i'm mostly surounded by men when i work in clubs, which is not a bad thing, let alone an unusual one in any technical field! I'd have to be set up where i can be seen for a start, which rarely happens in clubs, for it to even become an issue!

I think setting girls apart for a screening ENCOURAGES a gender issue when it might never need to be one!

girl vs boy vj's is a narrow self referential debate - way too premature in a scene where VJ in the popular sense still means the presenter on mtv. at this stage in the growth of live visuals - when the language itself is still being invented - the female VJ screening has as much relevance as screening of vj mixes by obese people, homosexuals, immigrants, orphans, drug users, vegetarians, etc etc - when all that matters at this stage is the work. I'm less worried about owning breasts while vjing then whether I have suitable content for the music i'm supporting which I may have never heard before... Obviously everyone brings their unique make up and experiences to their work! and gender is only one of those characteristics.

I think avoiding the gender debate and screenings of this nature altogether will better serve the scene...give us all more time to pursue our craft with vigour!

(btw, thanks holly for at least trying to steer the event towards some meaningful questions...although it's hard to get the juice out when the fruit is a vegetable!)

gallery vs club has no bearing on gender either - it is a modern debate on what is art because the two worlds are experiencing so much crossover. and personal experiences of chauvism which every girl can attest to i'm sure - need to be addressed as they happen or might shape your attitude but can't be stamped on an entire scene.

i am not interested in hooking up with female vj's because i am one or because they are out there - i seek collaborations with people who are like minded and are drawn to similar projects, have mutual respect, talent, same desired result, etc... does this even need to be said?

the rest is just gender babble and completely non-specific to the vj world - i'd say escpecially impossible in the vj realm due to the variety of approaches, mediums, art backgrounds, technical expertise, etc.

More relevant debates in the current climate are how to get our work as vj's out there in a meaningful and economically viable way, what the standards of quality ultimately are, and the usual technical delivery issues that challenge ALL vj's. In the UK there are many obstacles to overcome to be a successful VJ and there are barriers more pressing than gender, such as the acceptance of the artform , technological, financial limitations, lack of management infrastructure, etc - all the problems that ultimately motivated me to set up a VJ label to help solve in any way we can...

good luck at the screening ladies - it may prove useful for you to meet each other indeed - but remember it will still be a man vj steering the debate, and subjectively choosing the content, credited for putting on the first ever female blah blah blah - and if any of you are left feeling less than satisfied by the experience - I hope we can hook up at a real gig sometime and let the work speak for itself in a live atmoshpere with a real audience, hopefully a critical one, made up of punters and not just other vj's...

ok that's kind of long for a first post - don't worry i won't do this often!;)

[holly]

Hey vChunk! Glad you could put in a few cents. There's no crime (yet) in posting late or posting long.:D

I wouldn't go too hard on Anyone for being a guy. He's already proven to be an exceptional guy and he hires lots of femme VJs. The debates and showings at ICA are pretty new (format and content, as well as focus market). Since he's put this one on there is a similar night (female electronica) being put on by a group here in NYC and I expect it will trickle on down the road and around the globe. It's a pretty basic subdivision of VJs (male or female) and in this day and age I don't think you are really covering the population with such simplistic definitions anyway....

These events are new, and topics for debate need to start somewhere ? square one may be fundamentally boring, but it's as good a place as any to start.... It's my personal feeling that Anyone chose this topic out of a massive (and nearly destructive) debate that happened here on VJf about a year ago. It's all still evolving, and I'd say you aren't alone in your position ? there are plenty of more topics to come. Thanks for speaking up!

Hope we hear from you more often! Yay!
holly

[Rovastar]

First off and I am not accusing you of anything here but I do not want to see VJ Forums turning into a ANyone vs Microchunk battleground. k.

It is Oli running the 'debate' not sexist (Spinal Tap quote: 'NIGEL: Well so what? What's wrong with being sexy? I mean there's no....IAN: Sex-ist. DAVID: -ist, not sexy.' ) northern biggot Rovastar so I do not really see that as too much of a problem. I am sure he will be the model of professionalism.

Maybe focusing in on -isms does create more of a divide I don't know. But I am sure every decent modern art house in the world has had a female only exibition, or a Africian, or gay, or ...

Some will like it no doubt. Even I am interested to see what the girls can come up with .:)

You talk about more important debates. Well we have them all the time. Here at the live events AVIT. Big CHill, etc. Something like this is light relief IMO.

I am a true beleiver in more professional approach and addressing these issue and rightly or wrongly if an all females VJ team get their foot in teh door (Mr Promoter. - 'Female VJ team hey that'll be interesting. nudge, nudge,' *sigh*) because of this good business practice. (Right I am not saying if any of you are like this please don't victimism me. :hide: ). So it could be all releted to a business model.

If you want to talk business then we have a whole forum for it. Please come on in you are more than welcome.

*sigh*

[Anyone]

VJ Culture is a series of screenings
happening every two months at the ICA.

from VJ Culture 03 (the one called Female VJs Unite)
I made a decision to organise these screenings
with different themes each time.

the decision to organise a screening
about VJ women was made because
it was a very discussed topic on this very forum.

I am not a girl, but I hope I can still
organise a screening on girls
and invite female VJs to discuss with the audience

I have also asked many of the female VJs
if I could quote the comments
they have made on this thread
at the discussion period of VJ Culture

BTW, other topics will be discussed later
on VJ Culture:

VJ Culture 04 : the body in motion
VJ Culture 05 : found footage

I do not claim to be a dancer
I do not claim to sample footage

neither have I claimed to be a women

Ne1

[Lara]

Vchunk:

"Being female has never been an issue at work for me - apart from simply noticing that i'm mostly surrounded by men when i work in clubs, which is not a bad thing, let alone an unusual one in any technical field! I'd have to be set up where i can be seen for a start, which rarely happens in clubs, for it to even become an issue!"


I'm glad it hasn't been an issue for you, Vchunk, but it has been for me, and as such a very relevant topic for discussion ;) I do understand your argument, but I think there are obvious gender differences and as a minority on the scene I think it is healthy for women to support each other. Nobody is pushing this, the support is there if you want it, but you don't have to use it if you don't need to!

As for it being a guy who's steering the debate, well I don't think you could find a wiser more forward thinking and respectful vj as Ollie, and I think its great that he has decided to choose this unusual topic and raise these interesting questions. Nobody can pretend that this constitutes a gender debate within the scene, but it is welcome support for people like me who do face difficulties, perhaps because of the musical genres we work in?

I'm just pissed off I didn't get my shit sorted to send anything in . . . :sad:
oh well there's always next time

:up:

[tbone]

goddam i wish i found this site sooner!

[tbone]

THis thread is great!
2 cents time.

My sets reflect the tweakiness in my head, so it's not so much a matter of being a grrl per se, but I do react to the world, adn there are certain matters that are relevant to gender. I put together what i like- have never really jived on the "butterflies" tip- the usual reaction I get disgust/laffter, but that's usually how I'm feeling. I don't seek horror/porn, but rather i liket o play with ppl's preconceived notions of what's going on in the world. If a few frames of disturbing images are coupled with a particular bent, it tells a story (albiet a lme one) rather then going for shock value for the sale of it. However, if butterflies are what's in someone's hed, then by all means they should express that.

[vchunk]

thanks for replies
rovestar - i wasn't writing from microchunk - i have opinions as a female vj - why are u trying to say it's a personal battleground? that's out of order. If I was gonna make it personal it would have come out very differently -

no matter - fair point that there are other strands for business - i may chk them out

but it's all linked in my mind - the real trouble i have as a woman is actually on the business side of my career!

if this screening was sparked by a debate on line in the past then my point that it's self-referential holds...

every event will have its merit. My main concern was with quality - as in being female being the only listed criteria for entry.

anyway i think at this stage of the thread - we are talking about alot of things all at once - a lines blurred scenario.

sometimes things that sound supportive or progressive are the very things that end up holding us back.

good luck with the event.

ps: lara - agreed that women should support each other - there are many ways to achieve that , but my comments were on the basis of the screening - not on its potential for meet and greet.
your applaud of oli is very subjective -his screening is not that unusual a topic. and as for wisdom i have my own opinion after a longterm collaboration with him...
but my closing comments were a cheeky reminder about it still being a guy's world - not a stance on his actual abilities per se.

i better duck out before i say anything too personal for rovestar :)

[holly]

Well, as to NE1 not claiming to be a woman, there was that year where he called himself Annie...:flamethro tee hee.

On the other hand, I didn't see vChunks comments as a personal attack, but rather calling into question the validity of the topic and how it is handled. I think pointing out that a guy is helming the thing is a valid consideration, also the limitations of the skirt-check for submission. As you can see, there are at least a few of us debating here in this thread who did not submit (or make the deadline) for the event. Well, that's just a reflection of the VJ scene I suppose. We all have a thousand other projects going on. I'm posting here because I think the topic is relevant and not neatly packaged. I want to raise questions, not give simple answers. I stressed and pulled my hair out over being so vehement on this topic and then not supporting the event with a submission, but work tied up my computer and time, and half a dozen other excuses....

I still say it's a bit unfair to catagorize people along physical lines: lets say a person who was born male (or intersexed, or whatever) but identified as female sent in work and NE1 never knew the difference.... Is he supposed to disqualify them because that blurs the issue or doesn't make it as simple? The point is, some simple guidelines were set up and the criteria was at least one female member of the crew, so even male/female duos could have submitted ? doesn't that blur the issue? It's not so much about definitions of male/female or analizing content for gender clues, it's also about spurring interest in VJing and getting people in the room. Not to mention it's an excuse to put the event on lists that DO respond to gender issues excusively. Denying support for the event because it has a gender-focused topic is the same as joining the event because it has a gender-focused topic. Two sides to the same coin. It's a topic, one of many more to come.

I doubt that the next topic will be so lively or polarized, but the one after that (sampling) Whoo boy!

Ooh, there's also a point that I want to make about how you express your gender. I tend to blast my gender at 11 (just tying in the Spinal Tap reference), partly because that's who I am, partly because I think it's funny, and partly because I don't think I'm like most women I meet in this industry. I know plenty of she-geeks, and honestly their sex and body is not the first thing that registers. Is that deliberate? Do they "tone it down" or is that just a side effect of being a geek because he-geeks are not generally prime specimens of manly-man behavior, you see what I mean? The topic (or a later topic) could just as easily have been "Blasting your Gender at the Punters" or even "Sexual Content", but you see that these topics would attract a different crowd and probably spur their own debates....

[Lara]

Hey V-Chunk, I do know what you're saying and admire your approach ;) Maybe we should organise an informal female vj meetup other than this screening which would be more inclusive? As for Oli, well we will have to agree to disagree on that one . . . but that's cool. I hope his ears aren't burning. My point was just that he is quite objective, but I really do take your point that he is programmer, so his eye will be making the decisions . . . very relevant.

Holly I have been thinking about your comments about male and female art tools. That really struck a chord with me. I work closely with a guy animating on after effects, and it struck me that we are on two different trajectories- he is always seeking the perfected, slicker versions, where I am bringing out the flaws, and the human marks. I think it starts to go back to the modern/postmodern debates in terms of what we see as progress...... men seek a linear model of progress over time, and the universal, where women (although no less progressive) seek the space in which to work. We are hard wired differently. No chance of me being a she-geek tho, cause tech just makes me :confused: :help:

[mondo]

i will be attending vjculture at the ica since i need to get to grips with the arguements on this ace thread as well as see some cool vj work.

it would be interesting to see who will attend from above:angel:
shame you cannot make it holly

[Anyone]

Originally posted by holly
Well, as to NE1 not claiming to be a woman, there was that year where he called himself Annie...
...
I doubt that the next topic will be so lively or polarized, but the one after that (sampling) Whoo boy!



thanks for pointing that one out holly!

actually, FYI,
I did have a serious identity topic in most of my work
while still based in Montreal where I grew up...
and the male / female dicotomy did have a big part in it.

but that's changed a lot since I moved to London 4 years ago,
I find it much more difficult to be postmodern in the old continent,
having more than one gender is quite a difficult thing to practice in the UK
but that'll be the topic to a whole new thread I think...

anyhow,
the fact remains that this thread, weither relevent or not,
is attracting a lot of attention, (nearly 1000 views)
so it must be worth it afterall to address the issue ...

yup, sampling is tha next big one,
coming up we might see some old and new face voicing their opinion...

in the meantime,
see you all next week at VJ Culture 03...
Ne1

[Anyone]

Originally posted by vchunk
good luck with the event.

thanks:) Ne1

http://www.ica.org.uk/index.cfm?articleid=12640

[Anyone]

Originally posted by holly
Well, as to NE1 not claiming to be a woman, there was that year where he called himself Annie...
...
I doubt that the next topic will be so lively or polarized, but the one after that (sampling) Whoo boy!



thanks for pointing that one out holly!

actually, FYI,
I did have a serious identity topic in most of my work
while still based in Montreal where I grew up...
and the male / female dicotomy did have a big part in it.

but that's changed a lot since I moved to London 4 years ago,
I find it much more difficult to be postmodern in the old continent,
having more than one gender is quite a difficult thing to practice in the UK
but that'll be the topic to a whole new thread I think...

anyhow,
the fact remains that this thread, weither relevent or not,
is attracting a lot of attention, (nearly 1000 views)
so it must be worth it afterall to address the issue ...

yup, sampling is tha next big one,
coming up we might see some old and new face voicing there opinion...

see you all next week...
Ne1

[Rovastar]

vchunk,

Originally posted by ME
First off and I am not accusing you of anything here but I do not want to see VJ Forums turning into a ANyone vs Microchunk battleground. k.

Did you read what I said???! With petrol all around I was just saying I don't want to see naked flames.

Oh it takes a lot more than that to start getting 'anything too personal' with me. .....although spelling my name wrong is a good start. ;):)

Originally posted by holly
Ooh, there's also a point that I want to make about how you express your gender. I tend to blast my gender at 11 (just tying in the Spinal Tap reference),

:)

[SilentEclipse]

Hi, I haven?t read all of this thread yet but I thought I would contribute seeing as I have an AV piece showing on the 18th.

Firstly, let me give you some background as to how i came into VJing.

For the past 8 years I have been working in broadcast TV news ? 3 years as music researcher where I would find music to go with footage the journalists had shot in the field. And 4 years as a footage researcher where I search for archive and current footage to be included in documentaries, feature films, news programmes etc.

Prior to this i had studied Environmental Biology to degree level and have some limited experience as a photographer.

I decided to become a VJ after seeing www.yeastdirections.org.uk Vjing with Nitin Sawney at a festival and chatting to Marc Silver. At the time I was becoming increasingly disillusioned with the corporate media and liked the way Yeast put across important visual messages in an artistic, fun yet pertinent way.
Since then, I have worked with them on sourcing footage for their documentaries, gigs and films, and they have trained me in camera-work and vjing.

Currently my own vjing has had a very political edge to it and can be quite angry at times. I have VJ?ed at underground parties mainly put on by anarchists (they don?t seem to mind the hard nature of my visuals as after all ?anger is an energy? :P and a few corporate gigs also.

However I am finding that as I am being asked to do more gigs at non political type events I am having to tone down the type of imagery that I use. What I have now decided to do is try to introduce an element of irony and humour into my visuals so that a message can be put across in a more fun and accessible way.

I have not yet got my head around the effects side of things but am currently experimenting with Vjo and specifically using mathematical, geometric images and then animating them using the software. I?m not sure how far I will go with this as I am more interested in film footage and would like to concentrate on this area of Vjing.

I cant say I have had many problems being a female vj, in fact I have only had encouragement, apart form once in the chatroom when someone told me that I would not be a vj for long because all the equipment was far too heavy.:rolleyes: I didn?t mention to this person that I used to be able to press more iron in my local gym then some of the men, and this was when I was only 16, and no I don?t look like the incredible hulk now, but you wouldn?t want to get me angry. :jump:


Looking forward to seeing some of you on the 18th