Some interesting shit

[asterix]

http://www.spraci.net/news/articles/333.html


that is if you've got time to read it all...

[starixiom]

GREAT ARTICLE!!


Must read for anyone associated with multimedia in any capacity.


best line:

"Total synchronicity of all visual objects to sonic parts should reduce the dazzle effect to zero."


Any thoughts or Coments?

[holly]

Finally, and at the risk of invoking some controversy, I really doubt that other genres of music are composed of sufficiently forward-looking individuals to even conceive of an AVS art form, much less put it into practise. Is such a thing going to emerge from the New School Breaks scene? From R 'n' B? I doubt it....

:rolleyes: I'm sure lavalamps and blacklights were considered earth-shattering in the days of the Greatful Dead. I'm sorry but HOW old is this kid? "In my experience..."

AVS performances in media date back to the turn of the century. Probably earlier. Ever hear of this bizarre artform called Ballet? I hear all the people dress up in wild costumes and rehearse and rehearse until they can make little abstract movements exactly in synch with the music. Oooooh.

There was another quote, but I can't find it now. Something about these ideas only being touched at and never fully realised before. Checking the author date I'm surprised to see it was published in May of 2003. Maybe someone should hand him a copy of VJo or Videodelic or introduce him to Kijk & Luister (aka Skyvat).

Complete synchronisity is fun for a very short time in a sterile-Eurosynth way, but I prefer to have a little jazz soul working in counterpoint to all that clockwork.

[Amukidi]

"Total synchronicity of all visual objects to sonic parts should reduce the dazzle effect to zero."

Never a truer word spoken. Folks talk about MIDI as if its the only way to sychronise sound and vision.......

[robotfunk]

Hm interesting article, reminds me a lot of a thesis I wrote years ago (in art academy) on various ways to make visuals respond to music.

What keeps it from being a great article is the author's obsession with techno and MIDI. MIDI is a good tool but not the universal language that can bind all media.

Techno music, the cutting edge of electronic dance music

Take rhythm: the subdivision of time gets ever more fantastically complex in dance music--micro-syncopations, asymmetrical rhythmic patterns riddled with hesitations, multiple tiers of polyrhythm. (And it's not just the drums and the bass-- most of the musical elements in dance records, from the keyboards to the vocals, are rhythmatized and function as cogs in the groove).

This cracks me up. I consider techno music among the most rhythmically poor genres ever. Not that the rhythm is hard to dance to, quite the contrary. But its probably the most rhytmically simple music, and that is exactly the reason why it works.

That said, still a big part of my show is getting visuals synced to the music. Don't use it as much as I used to, but that was the reason I started making flowmotion etc. Only rhythm is just one of many musical aspects you can react to visually.

[sleepytom]

1234,1234,1234,1234,1234,1234,1234,1234,
1234,1234,1234,1234,1234,1234,1234,1234,
1234,1234,1234,1234,1234,1234,1234,1234,

[zap25]

Using a MIDI audio source to sync video events to audio events isn't a revolutionary new concept. But it's one that hasn't been put into practice often.
I've seen it once in the early nineties, where 16 Atari TT's were synced using the SMPTE time to sync sequencers. These sequencers were adapted to not only generate music but also visuals completely in sync.

The problem is that MIDI is hardly used in live performances. A more commonly chosen method is using a Mixing table to allow live mixing of a multitrack recording.

If those bloody DJs would abandon those archaic dark vinyl recording media and go digital like the rest of the world + dog it would open up some options.
Using the mpeg4 format one could expand the audio track with an "event" track similar to Midi (there's something like that in the mpeg4 audio spec, but I'm not an expert) then a VJ could decide to hook clips in a certain video channel to certain events (fade in/outs, pitch change etc. etc.)

Sure as hell beats beat detection.

[zap25]

And by the by:

THERE IS COMPLEX TECHNO

Goshdarnit. When I heard the first techno coming out of Detroit I heard people doing stuff that could fit right into the Jazz category.
Too bad I completely missed that era since I was just about to go to elementry at the time.

In Europe they completely took all the funk out of it. Resulting in that wretched 4-2-floor.

[robotfunk]

True, detroit techno is a lot more interesting than what is known as techno these days. Still even a jazzy track like 'bug in the bassbin' is still 4/4 at heart. If you compare jazz or arabian music that's a bit more complex already. I dont think really complex rhythms work anyway on the dancefloor, fear my rhythms are too freaky for most ppl.

Let's not turn this into a techno bashing session, I love good techno and have been playing it for over 12 years, the detroitish variety and modern variants. But dare I say detroit has become a trainspotter mecca, and that really there hasnt been coming much revolutionary new stuff the past few years ... the really interesting stuff from detroit at the moment for me is ppl like carl craig getting back to jazz/funk roots

Oh and MIDI is used live A LOT.

[Lara]

Techno is best WONKY!

http://www.uglyfunk.com

[syzygy]

[thinking aloud]

I wonder how much point there is getting obsessed with synching visuals to music so precisely when there are going to be latency issues in the midi/processing etc...

Add the fact that light and sound travel at different speeds (admitedly this will not be an issue in smaller venues) and maybe the conclusion is that a skilled human operator can actually create a visual show that appears more tightly synched with the music than an automated system that just fires off visuals according to the timecode.


Also, I agree with the people who mentioned that triggering visuals to the beat is not the be all and end all of a visuals performance. If you consider visuals to be an extra aspect of the music then you don't want to always have the visuals synched exactly with the beat of the music. Imagine if every msuical instrument could only play on certain time divisions...

Dan.

[disassembler]

THe human element is truly the most important no doubt.

Videomixers and midi gears are equally important as they allow a physical interface. Because of the videomixer I've always gotten a rush. Something as simple as the faderbar gives me so much pleasure. Add buttons and effects that express the emotional feeling within me and it ups the level.

I'm still after a interface and rig that lets me reach the same spiritual level as playing music (Free Jazz) with analog instruments and other people.

Must have something to do with the fact that instruments are more directly connected to the soul and are more abstract in nature, allowing for more expression (emotional connection), and greater flux of energy levels (rhythms). Never have I ever felt like I was going to blow up (wonderful feeling) while mixing video.

Hence why I still search and work towards the audio/visual instrument. GEttting very close thanks to Max/msp/NATo, midi, and saxophone.

[robotfunk]

There's still something to be said for visuals that perfectly sync to the music. It is one of many ways you can make (any) visuals relate to the music. Esp with steady grooving dance music, it really adds to the overall atmosphere.

regarding latency issues, don't worry so much, you won't notice a few ms latency (less even in visuals than in audio). You can really get it very tight, especially using MIDI clock.

Also, precisely because of the difference of speed between sound and light that you mention, it evens out more, as the venue gets larger. If you react with video to audio, the visuals will always be slightly slower (unless you adjust for it of course) and you can use this to your advantage.

[InsideUsAll]

Originally posted by zap25

In Europe they completely took all the funk out of it. Resulting in that wretched 4-2-floor.


hmm i'd have to disagree there. the UK stuff isn't that funky, but theres a lot more to european techno than the U.K scene

there are parts of europe that definately understand funk & techno

[holly]

There's a lot of new fusion between techno and funk/jazz that is getting better and better. STEREONERDS among other projects on the Rather Interesting label. Latin techno is a big favorite too.

[robotfunk]

man there is so much funky uk techno, just have to know where to look, the grow label would be a good start.

some the funkiest (techno and other) dance music is coming from germany and austria, not places you'd stereotypically associate with funkyness

[InsideUsAll]

mainland europe, austria, germany etc, like you say, & maybe france, are funkier than us in the uk in my humble opinion.

but what would i know, i'm just a v.j ;)

[asterix]

ok... now countries play funkier than other countries.... oh pulllease!

[starixiom]

I know in the article the author uses techno as a point of reference to expand upon the "whole" experience of converging sound with visuals but why is everyone focusing so much attention to this statement. Yeah, i disagree with parts of the article but as a whole i think the article has a lot of merit. Especially the part of how the human brain tends to be more sensitive and process auditory stimuli faster than retinal stimuli. And that by bombarding the individual with 100 different clips in short period of time along with the speed of the sound that the overall impact is going to diminish since it doesnt give the viewer enough time to process this information.

It seems like everyone wants their artwork to be respected for the statements it makes (wether religous, political, etc.) but without simplifing the process we will just end up showing multiple stock footage clips of war which will have no impact whatsoever.

[holly]

Ok, now I see why you chose the quote about too much sync loses the dazzle.

Do most people VJ with quick cuts on the beat? Show war footage because that's the most contraversial images in the media right now? Stick to the beat because that's the most obvious thing to do?

If AVS has a drug-like effect on the senses, doesn't it follow that you can desensitize your audience by over using it? If anything it should be withheld from your audience until you whip it out for the peak moment. Used as little as possible ? like a secret weapon.

[starixiom]

Holly, That is exactly what i was thinking. Simplicity and style tends to convey the message more than the Complexity of the images. I think a lot of time people try to hard to impress people with their clips (myself included.) Instead i think one should just whip out that special clip at the right moment to acheive that "awe" effect instead of desensitizing (sp?) the audience the whole night with a certain message. THink Las Vegas, once you step off the plane you are like "wow", but after living there for a couple of weeks your like "show me something i havent seen."

No matter what the Vjs intentions are, people are still going to make their own conections to the material presented. So even if you think the message is simple and well conveyed, it might not be so obvious to someone in the crowd.

In a way it seems like brainwashing or subliminal messaging but maybe in a good way.......You Decide......

[MoRpH]

Hmmm interesting article from Andy (I know andy personally through clan analogue, anyone in aust would know him better as one half of itchee and skratchee/ boo boo and mace).

Still I think the idea of simply representing elements of the music is such a arrogant muso way of looking @ it, just so it ONLY represents THEIR work, and disregards subtlties and themes of the music, and relegates anyone elses input into the performance as completely negligable.

Very disappointed with this.