VJ's and the dance

[vjpixylight]

AVit NA was great in everyway, and Miss Nix, Bishop, and Levlhed should all be proud of what they have done to make this all work, but I couldn't help noticing the lack of dancing going on thruout the weekend..I mean it was so sad in that department, that a few spectators were actively recruiting ppl to dance..(I realize with all the superb visuals being so explicit, that most peeps just wanted to take this experince in)

So it started me thinking, and I would ask you all, are visuals more suited to the theatre or the club??

I mean, are video lounges the way of the future? The 'Liquid Sky" club in Cologne Germany, is testing out this theory by offering a crazy amount of TV-matrix style viewing, with the moto "we are not a dance club"..

I makes sense to me...It would seem that the more lights and visual screens that create visual stimuli, the more the peep's attn. is not aimed on dancing,..

In real Jamaica dance hall's, (I.E. not the tourist clubs) you will often find very little lighting, and quite a few uninhibited, sexy dancers.. (prolly because when it is dark, you can let your body move freely without the worry of what you look like or how well you dance).

Maybe I am just thinking about this to much, and I know that some of you, think that visualz and the dance club go together like birds of a feather, but....
My real question...
Are most of us marketing VJing to the wrong audience??

Just a thought

:confused:

[PanicFilms]

I noticed the same thing but well, AVIT places importance on the visuals. That's why it was done. Somebody even told my friend at AVIT to please move because he was blocking the projector. I think at a club the visuals are meant as part of an environment, not the main attraction. I did see a few people dancing to Bishop's set (which was killer btw) but most were watching the visuals. For AVIT this was ok but I agree with the whole Jamaican reference. With no VJ and no fancy light show, the emphasis is put on the music and people go to dance and won't care if the best VJ in the world is playing.
I think there's a place for both venues: 1, where the people can watch the visuals and dance if they want. 2, a place for dancing where visuals add to the environment but aren't the star of the show. There's definitely others but I'll stick to these 2 for now...
Seeing VJ's in a theater setting is good and all and gives respect to the VJ so people can pay attention to their work but if you have good music playing you'll want to dance and you won't give the VJ your full attention. I would love a compromise where there's a separate dance floor and a place where you can hang out and watch the visuals in the same room. I guess it all depends on the venue, event, music, VJ, and the crowd.
As for marketing ourselves to the wrong audience, for me it depends on what audience you want. It's a personal choice there. Do you want to perform for a gallery/theater setting? A club or rave? Video Lounge? Pirate broadcast? Everyone will have a different answer and I think that's the beauty of what we do.

-arturo

www.panicfilms.com

[Rovastar]

The first AVIT this was not the case. A load of peopel were dancing. :)

It must be funny to see no-one dancing although for a VJ festival type thing ppl obviously have more 'respect' for the visuals and will spend time watching them. Imagine the oppisite whee no-one noticed the visuals at all. That surely will be a lot worse!!

I don't think we will ever be the 'stars of teh show' but maybe in teh future some ppl maybe 20-30% will go or the visuals as well and not the dancing.

Remeber music isn't always about the dancing I know ppl that enjoy the music but are not into all the clubbing scene as a) canot dance b) do not want to dance.

Hopefully we can appeal to these people also as often these ppl understand more about the music and teh mixing (maybe true in a trainspotting way) and w can have these onboard to as part of teh new 'club' experience.

Persoanlly I like to dance but maybe the question why would you want to dance in a dark room when no-one can see you you may as well be at home with the lights off. :)

[BrainStove]

Ohhh Nice thread pixy!!!

I can proudly see now a bunch of new "starting to appears" threads around here like authentic grandchilds & crossrelated branches from the Surreal thread... :yep:

I really wanted to bring it up to your attention about these topics/subjects/matters that I really consider of vital importance in our full time job path aspiration and how we all are really perceived for the chances to make a living off this activity (time/effort-devoted/wasted) we seems to like the most.

Actually you all are right about it?s basically a "styles issue" like everything on earth, which depends of your temperament, mood, vibe, mind frequency and intellectual needs at some given time, specially when you are totally free to choose for what/where the hell you go out of your home to gathering some new experiences, learnings, amusement, leisure & stimulation.

Yeah, about the Jamaican reference, that reminds me some episodes when I was organizing & promoting my own underground alternative parties loooong time ago in partnership with a few almost dead small clubs over here, where I was playing also the role as the all night long only DJ of my own parties, however I also was hiring for each one of those Dance nights a couple of short bizarre performances played by theatre people in order to provide some crowd interaction madness & some break/rest for me and the punters in general from the dance only thing, allowing to please everyone?s taste/expectations.
Of course, for those nights when I thought it wasn?t a big risk to my pocket I?ve also booked some kickass underground avantgard friendly (moneywise ;)) musical groups, everyone seems to want watch Live.

Well, all the previous rant was only to say that at the times when I wanted to go bigger with my parties and of course in bigger places outta the small clubs, it was only available in a little bigger no roof spaces usually OpenSky Atheneum kind where even with the very same exact music vibe and crowd/ppl type, it was a royal pain in the ass trying to keep the punters dancing all the time on the improvised dance floor unless I?ve Thrown/Trashed a substancial ammount of cash hiring also some lampies trying to build there an artificial trippy & privately enough individual space environment to each potential dancer feeling themselves more safe & comfortable from the intrusive other people Eyes while they were dancing. (Well you know, watching a crowd happily dancing your music is the best cumpliment/applause to every DJ ;)), so yeah Pixy you are right about your uninhibited sexy dancers theory, since I really think just the truly "free souls" with complete awareness about who the hell they are and whom doesn?t care a damn shit about what the ppl around them is thinking; they indeed are the ones with lotsa more successful immersion capabilities. For sample just take a glance to Hugh Hefner ;)

As for marketing ourselves to the wrong audience, I basically agree with all your comments so far, but I?d add I also see it very hard to divorce our VJing job totally apart from the Dancing Music scene, whether it an A/V act or Viewsician approach... otherwise you?ll be doing something else awaiting for a brand-new Title/Name/Label/Tag.

[Kriel]

Originally posted by Rovastar
The first AVIT this was not the case. A load of peopel were dancing. :)

Gosh, y'all, do you think the Stanton Warriors might have had anything to do with that?

[vjpixylight]

cool to have some good response to a growing problem..

First of all,

Rova, you obviously have never been to Jamaica, or you would know what I am talking about..
When I say dancing in the dark, I don't mean the bedroom,(completely different subject, that I think we all would agree, is the best, most fun kinda dancin).

What I am saying is:
ppl that need to be 'seen' dancing are dancing to attract attention, and are usually dancing at a meat market trying to get laid..
I am talking of a completely different reason to dance, that being to reach a different level of consiousness thru estatic dance, or in simpler terms, expanding ritual dance(no sexual motivation at all). For this reason, dancing in poorly lit places have a certain appeal that can't be matched by the meat market type of club..

In JA, they are very poor, but love to dance..the lack of $ they have means no special effects or lighting, and so these dancers are doing it to free themselves from the ordinary, and to satisfy their souls, not their groins..

So where does this all leave us VJ's??

Traditionally, video is something to be watched in a more subdued setting, ie. your living room, theatre, or in a place where the music is the background and not the main point of interest..
Hence my question..

I think dancing, and watching video, is really 2 different things..
If I want to go out and dance my arse off, It doesn't matter if I am surrounded by giant visual screens or even JumboTrons, I am not paying one bit of attention to the visualz, and I highly doubt that other dancing are either..(I am there to shake my body, not to think)..

If I want to go see a film festival, or a showcase of VJ's, I am there to watch and observe, (to contemplate the artists meaning in the visualz) and therefore not to dance..

The 2 are really unrealated, and for this reason, I think VJing in dance clubs, is not the best way to present visualz/video..

That is why, (IMHO), we as VJ's trying to make a fair amount of $$ for what we do, are not going to go very far with the dance club scene..

As most of you cats know, the whole Rave scene is all but dead, and with laws like the "Rave Act", clubs are not far behind..

So, now is the time to start building our own market as VJ's..
As VJ's we can take our video art to new heights, and not be bothered by laws such as the rave act or other laws that seek to shut down the use of illicit drugs and culture..

Why? Because we are living ART!! And if they try to shut down ART, they will in essence, be shutting down culture, which would cause a revolution bigger than any in history..





:cool:

[unjulation]

As most of you cats know, the whole Rave scene is all but dead, and with laws like the "Rave Act", clubs are not far behind..

nope, thers a whole world out there who are danceing at raves, and at those same raves thers a whole lota people not danceing that are watching the visuals

[vjpixylight]

Originally posted by unjulation


nope, thers a whole world out there who are danceing at raves, and at those same raves thers a whole lota people not danceing that are watching the visuals

Dancing is purly a pysical thing, and does not reqire a thought process, (unless you are doing a choreographed dance) where as watching video requires a cognitive process to interprete what the eyes take in..

Sure ppl can do both(seperately at the same event), but this is not what I am getting at..

What I am getting at, is that PPL go to a club to dance, and Visualz are only a secondary part of it, whwereas ppl go to a film festival to interprete the art, and don't have to dance at all, meaning the dance element is secondary, (if present at all)..

[Lara]

Hmmm, must be a UK/US thing . . . free parties here because of the random spaces, warehouse stylee and the eclectic mix of people, there's usually dancing and chilling and watching visuals all in the same space- which is all good. I share your skepticism about niteclubs, Pixy, and I'd rather work in more downtempo spaces (give me more attention!) but I think there are spaces where dancing and boozing and watching visuals can all interact (usually more independent, alternative spaces with less social codes).

Looking forward to the future, I think we are seeing a more evolved bar scene which might provide rich pickings for VJsd and AVJs and more experimental work, bring it on! But do we really want the visual to be the king? Isn't a good balance better and more fulfilling?

[vjpixylight]

Lara,

Obviously AVJing is the future, and peeps will come to see the whole act..

I see this as being the typical concert type venue(and art show), where most come to watch the show, and as awlays, a few freespirits will be dancing in the aiales or at there seats, or even on their seats..

But as far as clubs go, I think clubs are for boozing and sexing, and visualz(unless porographic in nature) have no chance of competing with hormones..
;)

Just edited to say that yes, things are very different in the club/pub scene between the US and the UK..
The UK's bad weather has someting to do with it, as does the 'Pub'/social scene between our culture..
here in the US, ppl drink to forget where as in the UK, I think pub's are more an extention of the social livingroom...
In both counties, 'clubs' are just plainly meat markets to get laid from..(a recent BBC show on sexual attitudes between our counrties show that american teenagers start having sex at a earlier age than their UK counterparts), and so I believe that the UK clubs are more the meatmarkets than the US clubs in that at some point in the US teenagers life, they get past the lets get drunk and screw attitude of clubing, and go to clubs for social reasons much like UKer's go to the pubs..

[unjulation]

But as far as clubs go, I think clubs are for boozing and sexing, and visualz(unless porographic in nature) have no chance of competing with hormones..

ah....but i never said they should be the the number one atraction, i just like being part of the space as a whole

and as i pointed out in my short esay in the content section (carnt be arsed finding the link at the mo') the whole point of clubs etc is mamalian pair bonding, in outher words geting laid, i'm happy with that i understand it for what it is and dont expect anything more from it, inderviduals can have higher staes of consiousness within these spaces but as a whole it dosent often happen in the normal club space

it is what it is

[elbows]

Its funny reading your comparison, because its not quite that simple. For a start the UK has an appauling attitude to alcohol generally, some sections of UK culture would drink America under the table. Its true our pub atmosphere has different ties to the rest of our culture, but this does not mean we drink responsibly, bad licensing hours havent helped, you get quite a bit of binge drinking & the associated vomitting here. Likewise we also have some of the highest teenage pregnancy rates in Europe.

There tend to be certain clubs or more often the modern equivalent of wine bars that act as meat markets. There are certain venues where young people can get in more easily, and so I wouldnt say the teenage hormone thing makes that much difference to the kind of venues Id like to perform in. Teenagers have certain venues that they flock to, and they are not usually present in overwhelming numbers in most venues.

Also isnt the minimum drinking age rather high in the USA? What age do people actually get away with buying alcohol in clubs? Does it vary by state? Typically here people start messing around with alcohol in their early teens, start drinking in pubs etc by 16 or 17, and its legal by 18 anyway.

Generally though I would say the whole hormone meat market thing doesnt necessarily go away as people get older, it just changes style. Most of the places I go, people in the clubs are mostly in their 20's on average.

Anyway I like to watch visuals whilst dancing, and I see many people in clubs who never dance or only dance for a short while, and it can get boring. Visuals have saved me from music that was driving me mad on many occasions.

But personally I am looking away from clubs now, partly because they do not excite me much at the moment, and partly because I really like the AV stuff thats going on. If there become many more electronic musicians who play live in clubs, I will become more interested in clubs again, but Ive had a lifetimes worth of DJ's to be honest.

Although I will say that interactivity with the crowd in clubs interests me a lot, but its quite a tasks to do this well enough that the crowd get something great out of it, and I am waiting for various technologies to mature. My ideas are currently half-baked!

[robotfunk]

Watching visuals definately distracts from the social interaction of a dancefloor, and the position of the screen plays a big part in this.

In a lot of clubs, the only space left for a large screen is way above most people's heads. Trouble is you really have to choose if you are gonna watch the visuals or interact with the people around you. Choosing the visuals can make you feel really antisocial.

While I like attention to my visuals as much as the next person, I also think they should interact with the dancing people, not compete for attention. Screen placement can lead to Design Dictatorship in which the layout affects the mood negatively.
This can be avoided by always looking at a rig through the eyes of a punter.

[disassembler]

Abstract minimal strobe. Dancer enhancer.

Original Detroit underground techno parties were just a DJ with ONE strobe and tons of fog in some crazy abandon warehouse.

How and what you spin depends on where you live. But its rhythm that gets those booties shaking. Doesn't matter what the content is as long as its ON BEAT. People dance to anything thats intense (as long as its not for to long) and fall asleep to slower speeds.

It truly is an art to keeping people dancing. WOrking the build, up and down so that people don't get to tired but still keep moving.

So if your crowd isn't dancing its most to do with the music and if they aren't screaming from climax then its because your video is holding them back. Put intense vids with intense audio and you will put people in Nirvana.

There will always be people standing, talking, and sitting.

Hell I've seen lampies that get a crowd off more than a VJ. That's because they only pay attention to beat and aren't projecting a image, but are more sensitive to feeling. Using color and rhythm.

VJ's could learn alot from lampies cause they are the roots of the VJ.

[holly]

Traditionally, video is something to be watched in a more subdued setting, ie. your living room, theatre, or in a place where the music is the background and not the main point of interest.. VJPixylight

Yes, very chill and cozy. Like the old laser shows with beanbag chairs and a nice overhead dome.... Only with a nice cocktail, like bars on the beach for watching the sun set. Very atmospheric and mood-twisting.

I think in the future we'll see bars using custom screens, LED architectural-stripes, screens wrapped around columns, 20 plasmas hung sideways..., all built-in. Like the mall in Las Vegas with the video roof.... Like sitting right next to one of the signs in Times Square.... Yeah, yeah, like Bladerunner, man! We'll be outside the box. We'll be everywhere!

[vjrei]

Well, I already touch the topic look here. (http://www.vjforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3098)

[InsideUsAll]

I think the reason no many people were dancing at AVit US was because the floor was too bouncy, and felt in places like it wouldn't take a good stomping on! - no seriously it was a different feel to the uk AVit,probably due to the fact it was in an art gallery type building which gave it a different energy.

dancing and visuals do go together. i see it every weekend.

[vjpixylight]

Dave,
I am not saying that visuals and dance don't go together, they have and do, but more as an asthetic, like lighting..
I guess the point I was making is, when do visuals turn a dance club into an art gallery where you don't come to dance, as much as you come to view the art?
As far as I can tell, that is what AVit NA did for our VJ art, and it was something to see, the visuals outdoing the music for once..:cool:

[littlecatalyst]

Originally posted by holly
[B]the future we'll see bars using custom screens, LED architectural-stripes, screens wrapped around columns, 20 plasmas hung sideways..., all built-in. Like the mall in Las Vegas with the video roof.... Like sitting right next to one of the signs in Times Square.... Yeah, yeah, like Bladerunner, man! We'll be outside the box. We'll be everywhere!

AMEN!

[Stickman]

Originally posted by Kriel


Gosh, y'all, do you think the Stanton Warriors might have had anything to do with that?

er, dunno, I was too busy standing in front of thier decks dancing to notice what everybody else was doing...

Sticks.x

[psychoderek]

Rave culture is NOT dead! One of its central themes is "dance like nobody's watching", and that's what we do. It's a world apart from self-concious dancing for the purposes of vanity or pulling! It's all about self-expression, celebration of that intangible vibe and community that runs through the best parties. Music can always be visual. I see visuals whenever I listen to music. My hands and body trace those patterns when I dance. And good visuals at a party reflect those inner images and enhance the entire experience or journey. The best parties are a holistic fusion of music, lights, visuals, decor and people. Take one away and it's not the same. Good VJs work with the DJs and describe the same journey, whether its psychedelic, funky, frivolous, sexy, audience centred, or totally off the wall :nod:

ps: If you don't know what I'm talking about, read a book about psychedelics ;) Music has the same effect I find.

[littlecatalyst]

i dunno derek i agree about the dancing and the good visuals part..... but a) i would rather do psychedelics than read about them :yep: but more importantly, i take issue with the "take one away and its not the same" thing; as many communities grew up with psychedelics (from Druids eating Philosopher Stones to Mayans and Navahos doing Peyote, the san pedro and of course Iowaska ceremonies....) and indeed they had simple music (drums) and simple light shows (fire) but somehow the experiences they had were of a high order, very trippy, very spiritual and i would haste to say maybe even moreso than at a party....
so ifyou are looking for that high, you don't need visuals, they can augment a scene, but are not inseparable from it.
...just recently a local-favorite goatrance dj left town and for his going away party, he decided to have no visuals at all... dark place, everyone
was high (on life right) and the place was pure magic.
it augments (unless it detracts-- bad vj, bad!) but is not necessary... i am totally in the same camp as holly, plasmatecture, projection art + vjs, and to seeing that life is a lot bigger than the clubs and parties pretend it is

[vjpixylight]

Originally posted by Stickman


er, dunno, I was too busy standing in front of thier decks dancing to notice what everybody else was doing...

Sticks.x

exactlly my point...

when I'm dancing and trancing, I am not paying any attention to anyone or anything, and so all the visualz that would normaly give me a woody are replaced with a physical high/permiation that VJ's just don't have in that particular situation...

So, why have VJ's at all when its the dance which compels ppl to go to a dance club??

Sure there are always those who hang out, socialize, and generally aren't into dancing, but are they then there to check the visuals??? Yea, maybe 1-10 might watch the visuals sometime thru the nite..(hardly a visual knockout)

I have read here on the forums, that a lot of you want to bring greater meaning to your VJ set, ie, telling a visual story, or making a politaical statement, but I would argue, is the dance club the best place to do this?? I think not, and that is why I started this thread, to find a better idea of how we as a VJ collective can influence the popular culture, outside of the dance arena..

I think Holly has best answered this question. VJing isn't about the dance music, but more about what we see and take in on a daily basis..
In Cologne, (where the first video lounges are taking shape) they are putting up projections (like holly has mentioned) everywhere, from the subway, to shopping malls, to art museum's, and that is where I do see the future of a purly visual art (without music) going...

But I'm just a Pixy, so what do I know...;)

[disassembler]

Pixy your right. Video is TRADITIONALLY a sit down experience. At least here in McDonalds land. But I'm sure that some alien culture doesn't understand that tradition and would think its soo weird that people don't dance to video. So break out of the tradition. If one want's non-traditional behavior then pay attention to what it is that's part of your show that still falls into the tradition and do the opposite.

Just look at the history of painting to find the answer.

See Marcel Duchamp, John Berger (ways of seeing), or Marguerite.

Some video will make you shake your ass and some will not and that's a fact. It is indeed hard to match beats but thats why there are good DANCE DJ's and other kinds of DJ's. This thing VJ isn't very well defined and is shaping itself more and more everyday. Took me a while to understand the difference in DJ's but I get it now. Some people HATE electronic music, others only like electronic music. Some people hate to dance and hate dance music. That's why there are different types of clubs.

Dancing video does exist, just as "watching" video does. It's just more rare cause its not as easy to think outside of a traditon. More and more people will get it as time goes on. Humans are capable of multitasking.

Funk - If someone is talking then they aren't dancing in the first place. Sometimes the music interrupts someone from talking. What that means is that there is power in music and visual. What one has to do is to make videos that not only distract the talker but make them get off their ass and dance. So if your in a club and don't like making dance video then your gonna get replaced by someone who does.

In fact I would even say that only a select few people dance because of the music alone. Others only dance because other people are dancing.

SO many levels to human behavior. The more we understand then the more we can control. RIGHT? Even if its about freedom it takes control to set you free. The monk meditates (controls) to uncontrol.


Blah blah blah.!!!

[holly]

So will we have "dance video" and "trippy video" and "chin stroking video" and "ahh, that is nice video"....

We probably already have these things, but it is difficult to pinpoint which is most effective (or what are the details that make "dance video" for instance) because we do not see enough of each others work, and it is likely that a VJ has some connections with a certain scene and may not cross-over much. Like we hear on VJF all the time that VJ should be trippy, or should encourage people to dance or think or get laid, etc. Surely there is room for all of these uses, and the specific things about video that make you want to dance (audio-reaction?) are not necessarily what make you think (witty juxtapositions?), just as there is obviously hi-energy visuals and ambient soothing visuals. Like slow melting tracers is not the same as zoom tunnels or spinning tekno logos.... Will we eventually have the vernacular to mix an ambient element deliberately with an energizing element, and punters (at least other VJs) will look and see what you are doing and nod in agreement....

[disassembler]

One just has to know what the goal of their work is.

YOur right Holly! When you only create and see one style of video its hard to know what to make for different shows. But I think its easy to dig up information about how to create for different venues. There are examples everywhere. Http://www.google.com

Search --->> concept.

It takes educating punters to appreciate the rare. Especially if your creating the anti-aesthetic inorder to discover a new aesthetic. That's why there are POP stars who all sound and look the same. They make the $$$$$$$$ and get mass appreciation cause the populous understands them. Every genera if good, even though not understood by the masses will, and if around enough, eventuallly become POP CULTURE. Just look at punk.

So yes eventually there will be the vernacular. But if you always remain on the edge, no you will never be understood by the Pop culture. It's early and we will define the new.

It's all in its design.

[vjpixylight]

yes, you are both right...

we are defining reality really, each time we do something different in the way we do our VJing..

The only problem is getting VJ's to do something different, and out of the ordinary..

The only VJ to do this at AVit NA, (IMHO) was Madam Chao, which was the reason why there was more of a buzz afterward about his set, than any other VJ performing at AVit..(Okay TJ Richter had alot of buzz too, but his art was more a performance style, spoken word art, and not so much a VJ style art, and wouldn't do so well in a dance club setting)

So, Can Noisz be a new dance club sensation? Well, I guess time will tell, but for now, electronic music, and live visualz are what we speak off..
Are punter's ever going to go to a dance club to watch visualz, I think not..(I may be wrong, but I don't think so)

So outside of the dance culture, what is the best, and most promising venue to screen our art??? Anyone??

[vjnixmix]

Considering the trials we went through in making AVIT happen... I can't help but find the thread interesting.

We first looked at AVIT UK of course... as it was we had to go off of. We had heard that they lost the opportunity to benefit from the "Clubnight" portion of their event... due to lack of control over the venue/ entry fees etc.

So... when we went into the planning we were talking to Spundae about holding the evening portion of the event at their club in Chicago. After only a few conversations with them we quickly realized the control was being taken away from us. One limitation after the next... and then we said forget it ... we changed "Clubnight" to "Talent Showcase" and kept it at the gallery. In doing this we faced a lot of pressure from the city of Chicago... in that if this festival or visual showcase as we called it ... were to look ANYTHING like a rave... we would be shut down and fined up to $10,000 (welcome to chicago). So we were acually instructed to keep dancing to a minimum - in the case that an officer make a walkthrough (and yes the floor in the second room is pretty "bouncy")- so that it didn't look like a dance party or a rave (and so no one fell though the bouncy part of the floor) (we never had to tell anyone to stop dancing - but that would have been quite ridiculous)

As far as visuals and dancing goes... in my opinion it is all about a tribal experience. The music starts it out... the visuals trancend it even further. It's like completing the circle... and pretty soon I would hope that one won't be without the other. Both music and visuals take us to a vibe. And anyone at AVIT knows we achieved the vibe - whether you were dancing along with it or not... there were visuals, music and a vibe. and thus (to some) was a tribal experience.

[InsideUsAll]

vj nixmix wrote: As far as visuals and dancing goes... in my opinion it is all about a tribal experience. The music starts it out... the visuals trancend it even further. It's like completing the circle... and pretty soon I would hope that one won't be without the other. Both music and visuals take us to a vibe. And anyone at AVIT knows we achieved the vibe - whether you were dancing along with it or not... there were visuals, music and a vibe. and thus (to some) was a tribal experience.


-exactly!

-we've been dancing to drums for so long, dance has become an instinctive reaction, visuals [flashing lights, glimpses of fire etc] have always enhanced the experience, all we are is a natural mutation in an ever evolving ritual. who knows where its heading, if we did know, maybe it wouldn't be as much fun?

great thread pixy :D

[disassembler]

So outside of the dance culture, what is the best, and most promising venue to screen our art??? Anyone??

Art galleries, festivals. But don't look to expand your rig cause if you go this route you don't get $$$. I believe the best route for art and $$ is in the academic setting. You've got to become a teacher of live multimedia performance. Cause then you can do shows that are more on the edge, make a living, still do outside shows, and be surrounded by many creative minds. Obviously there is a downside to teaching to. You get burned out, you teach others your skills, and make what made you unique no longer unique.

Ultimately you have to define what kind of life you want. Any life is possible, its just some are easier than others. Funny to cause $$$ doesn't always parallel effort. Neither does respect for that matter. Plenty of people love Snoop Dog and Puff Daddy.

[Stickman]

Originally posted by vjpixylight
[B]
[er, I danced in front of the Stanton Warriors quote thing...]

exactlly my point...

when I'm dancing and trancing, I am not paying any attention to anyone or anything,


:-), but Nah, not really you didn't.

I stood and danced in front of their decks to watch the artist's working, get it, I danced and watched. When they weren't sampling and messing about (as is thier style) I watched the visuals, some of which matched the music, some of which didn't, but I looked nonetheless.

I don't know what the attendance of AVIT 02 was, but there certainly seemed like quite a few hundred people who couldn't stand where I was, and most of them we're dancing and pointing at the visuals.

However, I'm all for more NON DANCE Vj'ing, bring it on, more ways to display our art / what can be done / entertain or whatever, but, be-carefull, soon you'll be doing stills and making TV commercials... :evil:

Sticks.

[vjpixylight]

Originally posted by Stickman

However, I'm all for more NON DANCE Vj'ing, bring it on, more ways to display our art / what can be done / entertain or whatever, but, be-carefull, soon you'll be doing stills and making TV commercials... :evil:

Sticks.

Gawd, I hope not, i'm bitching about that kind of exploitation on another thread..

Seriously, I think Dion has a good point here about the teaching aspect of VJing, and live multimedia..
Does anyone do this currently??(outside of the usual workshops and short forums)
I wonder if it is being offered in Universities and Jr. College's..

I realize too, that live motion graphics and the like, are being used quite extensively in most broadcast TV programs and sporting events, and this kinda VJing has to be taught/apprenticeshiped to ppl on that kinda career course, but does this really count as VJing?

Dance and visual elements of course are an important part of the magic one goes to see and experience in the dance clubs, but do they really watch and decifer the meaning of what they are being shown? I have to wonder? It would seem that lighting (lampies) already have the visual stimulei covered, not leaving much room for projectionist to do more..(at least in the dance club enviroment)..

Does anyone write electronic music especially designed to follow the visuals with a specific storyline, that creates another form of existence for the ppl that watch, and hear, so that they feel like they are part of the story?

I'm afraid the normal dance club just doesn't do thisin the way that a epic motion picture can..(feeling like your actually living in the story)

So again, I guess what I am saying, is isn't there more to VJing than just entertaining a certain lot of ppl that are dancing to use up their excess energy and angst?

To me, the dance is about expressing the individual self, (in the tribal sense), and congregating in ritual... dance and music doesn't need so much the visual effect, to be effective, and so the visual element will never be the main reason ppl go out to do this..

however, ppl love a story, and thru visual elements, we as VJ's can provide them with many...

Remember the old adage...'A picture is worth a thousand words".
There is no adage like that for dance...it is purely a physical manifestation in the archetype of celebration, and really has no mental processes...
Maybe by combining dance and visauls(with the eyes closed,) there can be leeps of conciousness, but to interprete what ones see's with the eyes open, requires much more thought than most have when in the dance..

That's how I see it anyhow...


:p

this is edited to just say that the whole idea I have have laid out in this last post is mute, if you can arrange both the music and the visualz to be interactive enuf so that the peeps are creating both with their dancing...now that would be the shit!!!:jump2:

[WordVirus23]

Punters, and even experienced hardcore ppl won't tolerate noise for very long, it takes a rather special (deaf) breed of person to dig noise music... much-less, psycho-strobo-delic visuals (ala Adam Chao) don't get me wrong, I LOVED his set, but then I also dig noise.

Our most promising venue? small to medium sized bars, clubs, etc... I've found that its in these places that I've got the most freedom, but corelationally: the least money, but at the same time, the most fun. another dream venue... hash bars... people sitting... intoxicated, chillin'... what better venue??! :)

..james...
N:VP

Originally posted by vjpixylight
So, Can Noisz be a new dance club sensation? Well, I guess time will tell, but for now, electronic music, and live visualz are what we speak off..
Are punter's ever going to go to a dance club to watch visualz, I think not..(I may be wrong, but I don't think so)

So outside of the dance culture, what is the best, and most promising venue to screen our art??? Anyone??

[unjulation]

ahhhh....there's nowt better then danceing with your head stuck in a bass bin, f**k the drugs what more could you want than that :evil: :love2: :evil: