VJF needs an annual elected group of 3 Directors

[vj_jasper]

i reckon this website, if it is to continue growing in a good way, requires an elected board of three directors.

i am not putting my hand up.

however, it is necessary, cos at the moment, i feel like SleepyTOm can throw his weight about hwoever he likes, and that just aint right. at all!

cheers for all yr good info Tom, however you are starting to overstep your mark, and if you continue, it will not be a good thing for VJF.

[vj_jasper]

sleepytom, if you can keep a handle on your emotions, feel free to discuss this as a valid idea, along with everyone else in a normal way ... no more weirdvibe attacks out of left or right field, mkay?

" Fear of danger is ten thousand times more terrifying than danger itself " - DANIAL DEFOE

[vj_jasper]

and before you go pulling your seniority card ... were you the one who started VJCentral, the originating website?
no, you weren't, Exhale is the one. He put together a few Cobalt Raq Servers, out of his own money, he made this for all of us.
we are not to be dominated by you, sleepytom. Exhale would never have wanted that if he knew about your .. er, :outbursts", shall we say.
in fact, i may just go and talk with Exhale about all this.
tom, were you even one of the original six vj's chosen to share free content from each of their donated 1GB spaces at vjcentral? no, you were not.

i am one of the original six.
this message from Exhale, in 2001...

"Hi Jasper!

Good news, your site is already up :) There's some generic information below. Regarding your offer to help me, I'll *really* need you when VJCentral is up. I have to admit I have a limited experience in VJing (only did 1 show) so I really count on other people to help me :) All I'll provide is the PHP/MySQL code but then there will be an admin/editor area (no HTML knowledge needed) where a lot of people can manage the site: add new articles, new links, write reviews, etc, etc, etc.

--------

My server is a Cobalt RaQ4 and like all RaQs it has a really nice administration area. I hope you'll understand it, it enables you to change your email address, add new addresses, change your password, see how much traffic you have and much more."
known as i-clanVJ in those time, i shared content, even people said "you should sell this!" and i said it was best to share at this time, because that is the vibe that Exhale intended.


get it?

[Rovastar]

Explain more how you think this will work?

[vj_jasper]

at the moment, the only key to this website database and all the valuable information within it is held by Tom. he can pull the pin at any minute and i have seen him say it before in jest.
even in jest, that sends the wrong message.

also, this twat has been bad-vibing me for fkn ages now, continually pushing, prodding, looking for imperfections. i can tell what type of person he is, it is obvious from his face - not that i would post a picture of him, because i really think that would be highly innapropriate, and please, no one do that.

i detect a bi-polar aggression coming off this guy and i dont like it. that would be fine and leave it at that, except at the moment he has himself up there as the unofficial king of vjforums.
sleepytom is not fit to lead these forums. he does not have the character to do so. if he wishes to help by maintainng the database then so be it.

however, i see others such as Asterix, Deepvisual, Rovastar (er .. that's you), Kyle, Dubassy, and so many more as being much more suited to being the "face of vjforums" as it were.
therefore, if three or five directors were elected each year by the majority of the vj masses, we would then have a much fairer website.

the time has come to talk about this, for only today have we had the most amount of people on all at once, 361.
sleepytom cannot be allowed to keep on ruling this place. he does not have the right vibe. squawks and poos about the place too much .. like a Moor Hen.

[bridd]

This reads too much like a personal attack from the outset -telling Tom how he can/can't respond to you before he's had a chance to respond to anything said, and making comments about his face (er dude wtf?).

I get you've got conflict of whatever nature with Tom but I feel a proposal for a new structure for running VJF should stand on it's own feet without needing to reference that.

[Motionreactor]

Totally agree with Bridd here. Sorry Jasper, but you should take up issue with Tom via PM or another moderator. We don't need accusations flying around... it's not good for anyone.

[vj_jasper]

fair call. i dont like the way he behaves toward me or a number of other vj's on this forum.

[sleepytom]

Umm are you serious?
your actually having a go at me because i said the following?
you can't cook fimo in the microwave. cook it in the oven. if you don't have an oven then get one, you must have a shitty diet if you have only a microwave, get an oven and learn to cook pies, pies make you happy.

I was talking in general terms and was not attacking you nor anyone else. I actually think if you read what i've written and consider it as a comment on cooking technology rather than a personal attack then you might even agree with the statement in broad terms.

If you don't like people responding to your posts then stop posting. You frequently post topics that are wildly off-topic and often based in pseudo-science (microwaves make your coffee radioactive, Magic Frequencies of audio, etc etc) when i suggest that your wrong about these things and offer you a starting point for researching how these things actually work you get all pissy with me?

So thanks for your contribution Jasper, it makes me really glad to of spent a load of time helping you with advice about preview lounge, your camera system and various other on-topic questions that you've posted here. I'm not aware of a case where i have ever attacked you personally, sure I have pointed out when you have posted nonsensical pseudo-science and apparently this has caused you some massive offence, but I haven't ever attacked you personally, certainly not stooped to the playground level that your post here shows.

I'm not against the concept of a board of directors. I've actually suggested the idea on a number of occasions. However the consensus has always been that nobody can be bothered with setting it up. (much to my disappointment, and to exhales too as he and I had a common dream for virtual community organisation and the development of structure and responsibility sharing based along the lines of Anarchist theories, the failure of this to happen was the route cause of exhales decision to leave VJforums and to give up computer programming)

[vj_jasper]

it's a dynamic.

your advice about previewlounge was that i should sell my loops and allow people to do whatever they want with them. that is ridiculous, and i will not be selling loops with anything more than a performance license.
your advice about the ex1 was good, however i actually knew of that camera whilst it was in development, and was stoked that you knew the current statistics. decided that perhaps it was a way we could develop a good dynamic.

Donny and I were conversing about cheaper AV hardware mixer options. you said we made the forums retarded.
i have always tried to show the good aspects of your energy, to emphasise those good things, in the hope that you may one day stop the aggreession. btu you havent.

i did not help Exhale start VJC for someone like you to come along and grab power.
i would not want to be on any board that you are on.

its a dynamic, and your dynamic is not right for vjforums, not as leader, or any position of power.

[Scratchpole]

Jasper, I think you have made an error of judgement, by bringing a personal attack via a good suggestion.
Your posts are just as often whimsical as Tom's are harsh, this is why I like it round here there is a good range of personalities and ideas.
I think recently Tom has been less forthright in his opinions, possibly through the consideration of previous threads which have leveled fair criticism at him, maybe he has just been too busy to reply to all those same old questions.

As for a board of directors:
I would like to see an organisational structure based on the concentric circles method.
One figurehead, a small core surrounding them, another ring of forum members beyond, and so forth.
Annual votes of confidence in each layer of leadership, the core, votes for figurehead to remain or be replaced by another member of the core, votes for the core from the next layer and so forth. With this method I believe the power resides with the largest circle/ possible number of contributors.

As it is you are doing OK Tom but we need to make changes for the the long term survival of this space.
Peace.
Jx

[Lucidhouse]

.
yep I agree with having a vote for director positions...first people need to put their names forward, then the voting.

maybe something like...

*lead editor
*promotions/financial director
*technical director
*creative director
.

[vj_jasper]

for sure, good direction.
and the votes need to happen twice, for VJforums and VJcentral.
two elections, two sets of directors.

seriously, Tom, you have hatred in your soul, and until you admit that, you are dangerous goods. if you can win an election for any position here, or at VJcentral, then i will accept that decision by the VJ majority.
as it stands, you are trying to hold on to power that does not belong to you.

[sleepytom]

I didn't "grab power"
I did spend hundreds of hours ensuring that VJForums and VJCentral were secured with a new community owned server, a finacial setup which should be sustainable, a new CMS to allow VJCentral to grow and develop, keeping the forums software up to date and providing backup systems to ensure the data is secure.

I also helped exhale setup VJCental, and helped with the progression through each version of the site. More importantly I have posted huge amounts of considered and serious advice to endless people here, the vast majority of whome have contributed little or nothing in return. Without experianced people offering advice VJForums is no more useful than facebook.

Maybe I'm tactless on occasion. Maybe i shouldn't expect people to be able to see that a Panasonic HD/SDI vision mixer (no audio mixing at all) and a Numark AV Mixer which costs less than 10% of the Panasonic are incomparable? Maybe I should give up and accept that lots of idiotic opinions posted as facts is the staus quo, and leave people to get on with their discussions even when they are offering bad advice?

I dunno? But i don't feel like your views posted here are the views of a significant number of others. Maybe thats me being agressive again?

[Scratchpole]

Jasper we all have the capability for hatred and that is exactly what you are showing in this thread. I am disliking you more as you push this agenda.

[vj_jasper]

of course we all have that capacity, and hatred in itself is not a bad thing.

indeed, religions leverage shame about hatred and sex in order to control people.
it is about being real and owning up to it.
hatred ain't bad, although it can cause damage.
dishonesty about hatred in the soul allows that damage to be potentially magnified and that is what i am trying to point out here.
Sleepytom is being dishonest.

Sleepytom has not ever apologised.
He answers with questions.

i did not post these things to be liked.
Indeed, the most likely scenario is a kickban. :(

[vj_jasper]

Maybe I should give up and accept that lots of idiotic opinions posted as facts is the staus quo, and leave people to get on with their discussions even when they are offering bad advice?


oh dear, Tom, you really are a piece of work.

i posted the thread about an eleven thousand dollar panasonic AV HD mixer.

Donnie and i talk about how expensive it is.
We then discuss options as the awesome free souls that we are.

you come along and say

"ARRRRRGH this forum is becoming more retarded by the minute!!!"
passive aggressive attacks like that = vibe vampire, afaik.

now, you try and link your removal from power as being an allowance of more "retarded" conversation?

nup. not buying it. you have to go. not because you seek to stop OT conversations, but because of your unprdictable aggressive attacks.
creates an atmosphere of low level tension.
and that retards the ranbow bird of creativity.

yes we should all try and keep it real, and keep things on-topic..
however a really cool fellow rocks up, after Donnie and I had been chatting happily about cheaper AV mixing options, and says
"Hey .. thanks guys, i think i will buy the panasonic for my mixing business."
cool .. but he was not hassled by me and Donnie being our own free beautiful rainbow selves.

prolly cos he knows that's the way people earn about ten times as much as he could ever hope to earn from his rental business.

i did not share my content for free to help exHale get the online VJ vibe up and happening for you to be king of the castle. not you Tom, not you.

[bridd]

of course we all have that capacity, and hatred in itself is not a bad thing.

indeed, religions leverage shame about hatred and sex in order to control people.
it is about being real and owning up to it.
hatred ain't bad, although it can cause damage.
dishonesty about hatred in the soul allows that damage to be potentially magnified and that is what i am trying to point out here.
Sleepytom is being dishonest.

Sleepytom has not ever apologised.
He answers with questions.

i did not post these things to be liked.
Indeed, the most likely scenario is a kickban. :(

This whole thread reads back to me like just a journey into Idontlikehimcoshewasmeantome with nothing productive...

Overall, I feel this forum maintains a pretty good balance compared to other places out on the net of not degenerating into personal insults in discussions, and I don't like what you're bringing in here. I'm also reading a level of passive aggressiveness with you trying to pre-empt things like kick-bans or how Tom may/maynot respond at the start of the thread - there's no need for it, it's not furthering any discussion.

To be honest I think you should go for a walk or something and come back to this with new eyes and some positive suggestions

[fata alex]

This is appalling.
Jasper, you need to toughen up a little bit, Tom may be a little short tempered at times, or merely a tad short/harsh in his responses, but that is because he has to put up with plenty of morons on this board, asking the same questions that have been asked a hundred times before, or simply refusing to take good advice. Im a prime culprit of this. And i've been insulted by tom before, but i took it in good humour, as it was intended.
I don't think he has set himself up as a leader on this board (although granted i haven't been around as long as some of you) he merely has an authoritative stance because quite frankly he knows better than most of us on most subjects discussed here. And equally he is doing a job in keeping the site running (on a technical level) that no one else is doing. Im sure he doesn't take a great deal of joy in that and has better things to do. So perhaps if you'd said, Tom, let us share this burden with you, he'd be only too happy to let others share the workload, but to come along and insult him (openly calling him a twat is certainly far more aggressive than anything i've heard him say) and try to sort of 'de-throne' him in some way is utterly ridiculous, and undermines what little sensible points you might be making.
Jasper, you have made some fairly non-sensical posts on here in the past, and usually, i just ignore them, but tom (to his credit) tries to answer your questions despite often bizarre gibberish they're buried in.
Im gonna stop here before i get more angry and say something i regret.
but seriously, get a hold of yourself, step back and look at what you're saying. this is an outrage.
the idea of a team of directors isn't inheritantly bad, but the way you've raised this discussion is appalling.

[vj_jasper]

referencing 'gibberish' without posting examples?
okay, i understand you are upset, and any more writing may involve upsetting words. that's cool.

the way Tom talks to people is appalling.
it just goes on and on every week; he does not stop.
i can see a kickban coming along. ah well. goodbye.

one more illustration of the way Sleepytom on a weekly basis tries to suffocate the vibe of creativity and exploration:

Sculpture asks in a thread
"what is the difference between 'realtime' and 'live'"
Tom replies:

Live as opposed to recorded..
realtime as opposed to prerendered.
waste of time - spending ages discussing or redefining words which have very broadly accepted meanings.

perhaps this is why digital art is so slow to evolve - rather than creating work people spend huge amounts of time reinventing the words to describe what they are thinking about doing.it was a simple question, to be answered simply by Tom or whomever else is on hand to help, and then Tom takes the liberty of saying that asking such questions is holding back digital art as an artform.

now that is disgusting.

[sleepytom]

How exactly am i being dishonest?
I don't hate you Jasper, i think your a bit gullible and confused, and your pseudo-scientific hippy spirituality irritates me sometimes but I don't hate you.

You've posted a divisive personal attack on me, called me names, insulted my personal appearance, said i'm unfit to run this place, and you want me to apologise?

If this were my forum then i would ban you for what you've said to me today. But that isn't how we do things here, people don't get banned without discussion between the moderators and admins.

There are some issues with how the site is run and organised, but you don't seem to understand how things work currently, nor the history of how we have ended up where we are today. For positive progress to occur the suggestions for change need to be made in abstract of personalities, starting of with a hateful personal attack is not the way to get people in a positive mind to think about community structuring.

[vj_jasper]

there's an angry current running in you that passive-aggressively attacks people, as you will see in the two previous examples.
it is not a conscious thing, and if you can not see it now, basically it is prolly best you kickban me.

because i reckon you are not fit to lead this site or VJC.

i dont want you to apologise. i say that you NEVER apologise. it is a dynamic, Tom.

i do not say that you hate me, i say that you have a bunch of anger wanting to get out, and it does, toward a bunch of vj's on a weekly basis, in passive aggressive unpredictable ways..
and you need to learn how not to continually, unpredictably, attempt the suffocation of the creative vibes of others.

[deepvisual]

err..
can we stop talking about hate please...
Leave it well alone... there has been plenty of real hatred going on in the real world over the past few weeks, this is just handbags.

some people can be exceedingly blunt at times on the board, but that is all. inappropriate yes, hateful no.

[asterix]

The mods have been going through the painstaking task of deliberating the issue of roles and democracy.

Some models have been put forward but it needs further discussion. Our last consensus was to hold off until the launch of vjc 3.0 which has priority. Once thats in place and there is some breathing space, we'll be continuing development on perhaps a constitution and role structure for vjc & vjf.

Perhaps we can leave this until then so we are all focussed and can achieve the best outcome.

[seex]

Im not going to get into the way this thread is going. Its obvious that both sides need to step down a bit. The idea of vote for director is a good one.

Lets get a wider circle of power we have now and Im totally against taking whatver position slepytom has here and so making the circle smaller.

If there are no volunteers lets start making nominations.

[deepvisual]

If there are no volunteers lets start making nominations.

better to wait.
changes are in the pipeline as Asterix said. its a very complex situation with a huge public board.
ie should people who have been members for one day have the same rights as people with +5000 posts???

[bridd]

and you need to learn how not to continually, unpredictably, attempt the suffocation of the creative vibes of others.

Sorry but that's rubbish... If Tom's bluntness "suffocates" vibes then that's only because people let themselves be suffocated, that's about you or anyone else choosing to place an external locus of control to someone else on how you may or may not feel about something.

If you don't like what's said on a thread then say so, on the thread, if your opinion and creativity has any strength then it doesn't matter what anyone else says.

[seex]

I posted before asteriks suggestion was there, totally agree.

[RayV]

its time to split this thread. or lock it.
Jasper, also by Exhale'S T.O.S for vjforums,
its not acceptable to publicly attack forum member.

I think we could - and still can have- achive much more with positive energy.
i do feel you are hurt, and its seems not for the first time. and I'm sorry for that.

But that what's mods are for, next time, pls refer to one of us, before attacking people in public.

As said by Asterix earlier.
Regards how to run VJFORUMS.
its not for one person to decide. that's why there are mods here.
this subject of shared responsibilities has been discussed and we all agree on that.
First - lets join effort to retrieve the new VJCentral
as many of us, especially SleepyTom invested lots of time to work on it, i think they all deserve some respect too.

I think after this happy event we can consider how we go next.

Peace.

so I suggest lets go step by step and set our priorities.

I think this thread should be split or locked now.

[vjair]

jasper, you are doing your self no good. your claims of agression on tom's part are undermined by the amount of agression you yourself are showing in this thread. step away from the keyboard for a while, focus your mind on something more productive and forget about it.

dont let yourself get so wound up by words on an internet forum ( which i truly believe you have missunderstood the sentiment of ) by following the path you are in this thread, you find yourself in no beter position than that which you acussing tom of being in. the sensible way to go on is to ignore people who you feel are attacking you, just as in real life.... turn the other cheek, move on and win the moral high ground by not over reacting or stooping to the same lows as you believe others have already done.

personaly i dont feel tom has ever truly attacked anyone on this forum, granted that sometimes he can be rather dry in his replys ( i say that as someone who has found myself giving rather dry replys on many different forums in my time ) but i genuinely believe this forum is much better and more informative place because of the huge amount of input he gives.

[fata alex]

Sorry but that's rubbish... If Tom's bluntness "suffocates" vibes then that's only because people let themselves be suffocated, that's about you or anyone else choosing to place an external locus of control to someone else on how you may or may not feel about something.

If you don't like what's said on a thread then say so, on the thread, if your opinion and creativity has any strength then it doesn't matter what anyone else says.


Exactly EXACTLY