VJ Vault licensing options

[vjneef]

I just took a look at vjvault.com
but I can't figure out what exactly is happening
it looks as if its' an open source video material database
but I'm not sure
if I want to download a sample I have to login
if I want to login I have to register
if I register I have to agree to the terms of use
but if I click terms of use
I get something about me granting my copyright to the public
nothing about vjvault and how they will use my none copyrighted work and how they will give it to the public or if they will sell copy's of my non copyrighted work to others. It's all very non-specific and it doesn't tell me when I have lost the copyright to my work.
Have I lost all copyrights to all my work just by registring on vjvault? It almost seems to suggest this.
It says Public Domain License, but then in the explanation it says this is not a license.

The link to privacy policy says nothing.

If you are providing a database with clips that are available tot he public without condition, you should not ask people to become a member of your community and sign your terms of use before they can download these clips.

However on the page of vjloops there is a very specific user agreement about the clips you can buy there. I wonder if I was allowed to mix it on my vj set if I bought it. You're not even allowed to "use it in conjunction with pornographic material."
That kind of rules may turn out very problematic for some people.
Of course vjloops can make all the rules they want with thier clips, but I wonder how these two websites work together on such a contest.

[asterix]

Public Domain License


Your choice suggests you want to dedicate your work to the public domain, the commons of information and expression where nothing is owned and all is permitted. The Public Domain Dedication is not a license. By using it, you do not simply carve out exceptions to your copyright; you grant your entire copyright to the public without condition. This grant is permanent and irreversible.










Noncommercial License


The licensor permits others to copy, distribute and transmit the work. In return, licensees may not use the work for commercial purposes unless they get the licensor's permission.





Probably a bit confusing. Perhaps it should say

'Contributors: By contributing content to vjvault.com, you license vjvault.com to non commercial sharing and distribution your video and any embedded audio. You also license your content for public display without charge. This license is permanent and irreversable however content may, at the contributors request be removed from the website. You also acknowledge that you will not upload any video or audio that you do not hold copyright for'.

Downloaders: 'Any content listed on this website remains copyright of the contributor. The content may not be resold, redistributed or used for any purpose other than public performance (vjing) without the expressed consent of the original author'.


But it is what it is - a file sharing site for vj's. Once it enters the public domain theres little you can do about it anyway and I'm sure most contributors understand that.

[Kyle]

Just too add a little about the www.vjloops.tv (http://www.vjloops.tv) cooperation with the contest.

There's no secret hidden agenda here. VJ Loops will not take submitted content and resell or reuse it.

I am hoping to find some really cutting edge work from unknown artists around the world. Winners or not, if the work is cool I may contact you regarding some distribution with VJ Loops under a voluntary premise.

[asterix]

Yeah I doubt that's on the agenda at all! Kyle's donated heaps of $$ and time to vjf/vjc and is a pretty trustworthy and well meaning fellow. His business wouldn't last very long if he burnt people by taking their content like that.

[vjneef]

If you doubt, you're not sure ;)
But I didn't think I found a big vj conspiracy.
I thought it was a very unclear and wrong agreement and I think it's important that agreements are clear and fair.
I think the text asterix wrote would be an improvement
But I do wonder about about the non commercial part. VJ's often work commercially and it would be logical to allow that kind of use. Maybe people would not be happy to see their loops in a tv commercial or a presidential campaign so if that would not be allowed it has to be clear.
I do not think that once you enter the public domain there is nothing you can do about it. I do think there is much you can do with such a bad License. I think the gpl was succesfully defended in court when a company did break it.

I would not like to put my video clips somewhere if I don't know how people were allowed to use them. And I would not like to use clips from vj's if I didn't think they would allow other vj's to do so.

The reason for bringing in the vjloops license is because i would also be cautios of buying these loops. It is also unclear for me if you are allowed to do everything I would like to do with it. However they do seem to have taken a serious effort to make sure that the loops are used in ways so they don´t get in trouble. It would be good if the vjvault page would also have a license which made sure that the vj´s that provide the clips and the people that use them don´t get in trouble too.

[automaton]

my biggest problem with vault is i sign up for it and get locked out of it everytime i use it. i.e. I have to make a new user name and password every single time i leave the site. i dont know if others suffer from this, but I cant seem to get Kyle to figure it out with me. But other then that I think him and his concept are of good nature.

[asterix]

If you doubt, you're not sure ;)
Right so you tell me how to prove it or anything else in life then? Sure does not = truth either. Its really quite simple - if you don't like it don't use it. Talk to the site developers if you have complications.

[Architects of Tomorrow]

Hello VJNeef

To answer a few of your questions - I started vjvault.com as a way to share clips. I used an premade script so I am bound to the script presets such as signup, etc - I am aware of some of the signup issues. I had the script developers look at the issue as well as my programmers to see what could be causing the issue. They both found nothing but are continuing to work on it. I admit the liscense issue is a little of a mess - It was thrown together at the last minute - will see what i can do to clean it up once i get some time. Vjvault has no plans to resell any of the clips or do anything that would piss the artist off. Kyle from vjloops.tv and I sponsor contests to try and get a larger database of loops and to bring business to vjloops.tv - It is an even exchange. We have both discussed how we can try and improve the vj community and building the database is one way to give back as well as find new artists. - Thanks Kyle, asterix and many others for all the support!!! VJVault is really just and idea that kind of took off - no business plans - no massive agenda - I lose money with the site- had to purchase server / storage unit - and placed $1000's into custom programming. In one year only made 122.00 in google ads. We also erase any clips that are copyrighted or that come from other artists that did not upload.

Hope this answers your questions.
PS - only 24 hours left in contest
Thanks
Sean

[vjneef]

First of all, I really like the idea.
Second, I didn't wanna step on someone's toes, or maybe I do just a little, but only to have a good discussion, not to offend anyone who works had to get some good ideas realized.
Third, I can never prove anything, but I also don't think I have to because that wasn't really my point.

The point is not if I can trust vjvault, the point is that there is no clear statement for the rules that apply to the video's on vjvault.com and it seems there is also little awareness of the need to have such rules.
I think technically it wouldn't be very hard to setup a better statement. It's the text that you get when you click "terms of use". If you type a different text it's done.
What exactly should be there is a lot harder. You say you don't wanna do anything to piss the artist off. But I think that would not be a good enough text because it is very subjective, you don't really know what pisses someone off. For example I would probably not be pissed of if you would sell a clip as long as you would also provide it for free and show people that you got it from me. Maybe they would ask me to make more clips or to come and do a vj show. And if I would download clips from your website I would really like to use them as a vj. And if I get payed I guess that would mean it would be commercial and I would make money using other people's clips.


So maybe you should check this out.
It's all explained in a very visual way so all vj's should be able to understand. ;)

http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Howitworks_Comic1

I am willing to donate some time to help you find the best solution.
And if you feel there is nothing to solve than asterix is right and I can just choose not to register.

I do hope your website will be a success and you will soon earn some money with it so that you can keep going.

greetings Richard

[asterix]

Great. Why not post exactly what you'd like to see - and I'll move this stuff to another thread where you can discuss further.
There is the vj loops section at archive.org which is CC. But its a crummy interface - vjvault is much more focussed on content preview and download.

[vjneef]

Thanks, a new thread is a better.
So I checked out some websites.
archive.org has a pretty complicated agreement that doesn't seem to be about the the license of the content but about archive.org not being responsible for any damage through the use of the website.
There is a website for music that has a database of free music
they have a lot of music which is so old that there is no copyright anymore
but they also have new music submitted by people under the creative commons.
http://imslp.org

The creative commons has six different licenses.
of which the attribution license seems closest to what vjvault is trying to say in the "terms of use".
The attribution only demands from the user of the work to :

You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor (but not in any way that suggests that they endorse you or your use of the work).


Other licenses have something to do with not allowing derivatives and non-commercial use. On the subject of non-commercial use I found a page that says this can be harmful. For example if you have banners on your website, you would be considered a commercial website because you have the intention of making money. Webpage is here. http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/9/11/16331/0655

the six licenses are here:
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/

the attribution license :
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/

and the complete text of the attribution license:
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/legalcode

hopefully this is of any use to vjvault.

greetings Richard
i guess I'm to late for the contest now :)