super 8 junkies unity

[AetherPan]

Hello,
just started to discover super 8 Moviemaking. Has anyone any experience with this old technic? I just need everything u have like advices tips links.

And especially has anyone experience about developing their own super 8 films and not sending them to a lab?

thx in andvance
Aether

[LEVLHED]

actually, one of the last times I was browsing ebay I was looking at super8 cameras...I don't know enough about them really other than knowing the output is considered acceptable for "the big screen" Didn't realize there was any developing process involved for the film(!) and I too would be interested in more info on the format.

[ristuuk]

used to use super8 and 16 all the time in night clubs,thats how i started.
Ill dig out contact addresses for you of dealers and cine clubs.
quality depends on the projector, but good projectors are cheap.
superp effects can be acheived by using two or more projectors on one screen-proper live mixing!
why go data? cos its nice and easy.

[LEVLHED]

I don't think I'd mess w/ super8 beamers at all, just take footage and rip it to DVD/HD or somethin...more interested in a decidedly analog look...plus I'm a hopeless gear freak and am always interested in learning about shit..

is there a developing process for super8 film? or can it be used as-is when shot..

[Lichtschutzfaktor56]

high,

here are some starting points about super 8
format:

http://www.super8.de
only german

http://www.super8site.com/home_e.shtml
swiss page also in english

some years ago i was in touch with a advertising filmproduction firm which produced some commercials on super8 and converted the material via filmscanner into video to get the special look of this format. Looks great.

[stevefromNewcastle]

I have started to orginating footage on super 8, it gives a lovly feel to things as it has far more exposure range. A good place for info is super8filmmakering.com, is a good place to start. The film is about ?12 a reel and that will last 3 mins at 25fps. If setup right the footage can have a higher line resolution that miniDV.
I got a nizo professional on ebay for ?100 I am very happy with it the optics are fantastic, but it is quite heavy.

Hope this helps
Steve

[unjulation]

if your terning all yur stuf into vid then all well and good, if you want to use 8mm projectors i genraly wouldn't the trow is to little the bulbs not bright enough and the image is to smal,
if your going for projectors then try 16mm elfs grate for loops, the cammeras are more expensive but better quality
and the film is big enough to actualy draw on and use all sorts of chemicals on to create efects
any surch on google will result in a whole host of clubs etc for the use of 8mm/16mm film

[AetherPan]

thx 4 the help till now.

16mm gear is too expensive for me now. perhaps I'll switch after I kicked that super 8 thingy a bit.

I think it's cool that there are still some people out there who use super8. in my Opinion it is like "real" filming. No DV-Cam shit. Just a real film that has to be developed with chemicals.

go 4 super 8

[holly]

I have a couple of cameras and projectors (maybe even an editor) from my film school days. The cost of using them is just too expensive. Film needs a LOT of light to get good colors, though you use to be able to get tri-x b&w film that looked just beautiful grain and all.... I'm looking to sell them if anyone knows a good place.
just take footage and rip it to DVD
Ha ha ha ha! "rip" to DVD. you have to send it to KODAK or similar to get it developed. Generally, it starts life as a cartridge roll of kodachrome (like slide film, there is no negative) that lasts only 2min, 50sec (I'm sure Tom will correct me if my memory is wrong) if you shoot at 24fps. Common to shoot at 18fps to get about 3min,20sec(?) or so. Then you run out of film and send it away for processing. 2 weeks later you get it back and can watch it for the first time on a projector that will leave a nice long scratch down the center of the whole reel. Better save that DVcam because that's how you're going to get the film back onto DVD....

It is fun stuff, but so is rebuilding a Model T Ford.

[syzygy]

We recently entered the world of super-8.

We've been using our camera at 48fps to capture moving objects in slow motion.

Of course, that means we only get about a minute out of a cartridge...

Dan.

[LEVLHED]

oh....

then fuck THAT!

lol

[sleepytom]

hahaha
rip super8
haha
ha
ha

actaully its called telecine and it costs a packet to get it done professionaly - very nice results though if done well to a good video format

[kommy]

of course you can project your super8 onto a white wall/screen and video tape it. then you get that added plugin look as a bonus. ( i think the plugin is called "video taping super8"

[trotskythecat]

Holly - you probably know this already, but I've found the best place to sell super-8 equipment is at schools themselves - just posting up flyers with pics of the equipment. At my old school, the first production class is still in Super-8, so there's a rush for equipment at the beginning of every semester. Not sure about the schools in NY...

And it's true that it's expensive, but you can certainly get some interesting effects. If you're going for a real lo-fi look you can just project the film onto a screen and record it onto a dv camera. It's better than any film-look program if you're looking for that sort of thing. An example of this can be seen here:

The Debonair Bachelor Does Soup (http://oracle.astrotechnic.com/media/soupsmall.mov)

On another note, I'd be interested if someone could find a way to get the flicker out - seems you could regulate the brightness, sort of like normalizing a sound track, but my results have been futile so far.

[holly]

Good tip, Trotsky! I'll take some photos and post up flyers (probably wait till August when the semester starts.;) Ka-CHING!

[PanicFilms]

To video tape Super8 film when it's projected on a wall, I've had good luck messing around with the shutter speeds on the camera and always having it hooked up to a tv so I can see how it looks. It probably won't take all the flicker out like a real telecine would but it's a good start.

-arturo


www.panicfilms.com

[KillingFrenzy]

I've been fooling around a bit, and really like the look of black and white shot with super 8. Color can get a bit squishy, and I'm not convinced that the merits offset the fuzziness. BUT Black and White looks great. I found a local place that does the developing, and another that does a fairly cheap transfer to DV. I transferred a bunch of old family films, and was surprised how nicely they came out. I think part of the reason I always discounted Super8 transfers was that everyone used to get them done to VHS. The quality difference in getting them transferred to a higher format makes a major difference. Track down a proper screen somewhere if you're going to shoot them off of projections, it makes a world of difference. If you do shoot your own footage off a wall or screen, try playing with zooming in on the footage and capture the same footage 3 or four times. Make an edit of that, and you get a nice collage of your original subject.

[skyvat]

Hey Holly, if you have a good S8 projector I might be interested. Maybe a cheap camera as well. Let me know, I'm on yr email list.

Good telecine transfer makes a HUGE difference. I shot a bunch of S8 for a doc film I worked on and we initially did very cheap 1 light transfers in the back of this hole-in-the-wall film lab. We eventually redid the transfers on a Rank with DaVinci color correction and the editor was amazed at how good the stuff looked. I highly reccomend VidiPax if you have the budget.

Of course I was shooting Kodachrome (the reds, man...)

People who have this stuff in basements just want to get rid of it cheap, but there's quite a boutique market around NYC for the pro level stuff. Ebay the way to go, though I've noticed a spike in scams and shady sellers.

[AetherPan]

Anyone any recommendations for a projector that is very bright and has no "automatic film input" (dunno how to call it!) So that you easily can put in your loops??

[holly]

Hey Holly, if you have a good S8 projector I might be interested. Maybe a cheap camera as well. Let me know, I'm on yr email list.

No way, Daniel! I'm gonna screw some snot-nosed NYU brat out of a year's worth of beer money! :evil: Bwa-ha-ha-ha! (I've been threatening to do this for years, but it's one of those things. Gotta dig it out.... I'll def let you know first.) The REDS! I know, I remember. Red is like Kool-aide red, like SUPER-RED, but yellow-brown fleshtones get kinda grainy. Maybe I just didn't know what I was doing. Lighting was always too yellow....

But sound! Ugh! The sound cartredges were even weirder than silent. And they wasted film because they exposed extra frames. Hmmm. With a real film crew the sound would be seperate.... I get it.:nod: Yeah, I have a beautiful Bolex(?) camera, but audiohead is busted. Maybe not so important when used with a soundman.... Ka-ching! Ka-CHING!

[unjulation]

Anyone any recommendations for a projector that is very bright and has no "automatic film input" (dunno how to call it!) So that you easily can put in your loops??

dont know about 8mm but 16mm projectors then go for an "elf" yes i know its off subject but......bell+howl even though better quality projectors the elf's allow you to run a loop just behind the lens and not the whole system

if you need film then just put a surch in google for 16mm film

oh by the way i have about 8-10 16mm projectors for sale but you going to have to colect way to hevey to post, going very cheep cos most of them are only able to run loops rarther then full films

[AetherPan]

shipping is too expensive....
:(

Wait a minute, don't u come to CE part 2 too? ?ou could bring a projector if it is possible.

[unjulation]

if i'm flying over then unfortanatly no, again way to heavy probebly wouldn't be able to cary anything else

but if i'm road triping it then i dont think it would be a problem baring space

will let you know closer the time

[ristuuk]

16mm....imo the elf is a better projector,
the bell and howell have a plastic worm gear and these always wear out. major repair job.

[unjulation]

forgot about that tho not imposible to fix it is a bitch of a job

quick link to a 8mm+16mm film list

http://www.derannlists.co.uk/

i'm trying to find the contact for 8mm/16mm/35mm to video+cd but aint gone through my fileing system for about 6 months so it might be a while

[PanicFilms]

I found an old cartridge of Kodachrome II super 8 film this weekend that I had shot years ago and never got developed. Anybody in the US know where I can get it developed? I don't remember what's on it, or when exactly I shot it but I know it's a very old cartridge so the film should be pretty funky when it's developed.
Thanks,
-arturo.


www.panicfilms.com

[skyvat]

Originally posted by PanicFilms
I found an old cartridge of Kodachrome II super 8 film this weekend that I had shot years ago and never got developed. Anybody in the US know where I can get it developed? I don't remember what's on it, or when exactly I shot it but I know it's a very old cartridge so the film should be pretty funky when it's developed.
Thanks,
-arturo.


www.panicfilms.com
For K-II, This lab comes recommended by another excellent processing lab (http://dwaynesphoto.com)

Rocky Mountain Films
560 Geneva St.
Aurora, CO 80010
phone: 303.364.6444
http://www.rockymountainfilm.com

[PanicFilms]

Thanks for the links!:D
I'm sending my film to Rocky Mountain Film Lab. I'll post again when it gets sent back to me. Cool thing about that lab is that the'll send back a VHS tape too. I can't wait to see this!!
-arturo.

www.panicfilms.com

[skyvat]

Originally posted by PanicFilms
Thanks for the links!:D
I'm sending my film to Rocky Mountain Film Lab. I'll post again when it gets sent back to me. Cool thing about that lab is that the'll send back a VHS tape too. I can't wait to see this!!
-arturo.

www.panicfilms.com
Always a pleasure when esoteric, otherwise useless information filling space in my head is of value to others.

Dwaynes is also a great place. The only game in town but also excelent service.

Dan

[unjulation]

finaly found the contact for video to 16mm and visa-versa quite old so i dont know what services that they are doing at the moment or the prices but might be worth contacting them

film and photo ltd
13 coleville road
south acton Ind. Est.
london
w3 8bl

unfortanatly the info is old so i aint got a recent tellephone number since london changed the pre-fix

[Alex]

My siggy was made with a Super-8 Camera.

Check out my Super-8 forum if you have any questions.

[Alex]

http://www.hostboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=405

[thomase]

hey!
i just rediscovered this thread when re-discovering some old super 8 films...

I have this thingy which you can put on the projector and then attach a camera, so you don't need a screen.
but what about the fps difference? how do you cope with that?

[alangeering]

what kind of video camera do you have?
what progressive scan framerates can it capture?

alan

[twiki]

dos any one know were i can get 8 flim not spuer 8 but old 8mm flim in the london area.

[thomase]

I have an old panasonic, but I could get hold of a new sony one, I dunno about the framerate...

[alangeering]

experts please comment!

alan's guesses:

You want a camera that will progressive scan at a framerate you are able to run the projector. (very stable and correct sync required). Even if this is aweful framerate just go with it. (My sony VX2000 might not be a good choice, there are however some nice 24p cameras out there now...)

Later, "interpret" the footage on import as the frame rate you shot at, and it should appear on the timeline as if you were running the projector at your projects playback speed.

I'm from a PC background but I know that FCP did have offline film editing features as an extra. Anyone who's used these should have more of a clue.

Alan

[thomase]

I know, and you can even output FCP in 24 fps, but how do I snc my projector to my dv camera???

[sleepytom]

you can't - thats what a telecine machine does - projects film on to a synced ccd
you can get ok results from filming a film projection (the little box thingys genraly arn't as good as filming a well setup silvered screen unless you have a very posh box thing with a ground glass surface to film)

its not the frame rate but the shutter speed that is crucial to get good results - use the best camera you can get hold of (ideally 3ccd with decent manual controls) - hook up a decent crt monitor so you can see what the output looks like and then mess around wih the shutter speed untill you have as little jitter as possable.

[alangeering]

amen.

tom. aren't some of the projectors equipped with crystal (frequency) controlled shutters?

I'm not experienced at all in this but I remember a camera and projector set where you had to pop in (or switch between) a different crystal for each speed setting... These seemed pretty stable and if you could get a 25 fps or whatever your video camera's frequency was, crystal (or multiple) it should match fairly well.

just out of interest.

Alan

[syzygy]

Originally posted by sleepytom
hook up a decent crt monitor so you can see what the output looks like and then mess around wih the shutter speed untill you have as little jitter as possable.


The Jitter is what we use our super 8 for ;)

Since we're filming at high speed (60fps) with a slightly dodgy old camera and then playing back at 24fps, the effect of the projector not synching with the DV camera is rather overshadowed by all the other weirdness that is going on...

Dan.

[alangeering]

we have a guy down the end of the street who does telecine at the back of his computer shop. Don't know how. Somehow I don't think he has a proper telecine rig... morelikly he has gone for a projector/screen/camera rig, but I will ask next time I'm up there.

www.7dayshop.com are doing process paid silent super8 quite cheap for anyone in the UK who wants to have a go (borrow your uncle's camera whatever)

Alan

[temper45]

there are place in Burbank, California does most of Film develope..
I'll post it soon..


Originally posted by PanicFilms
I found an old cartridge of Kodachrome II super 8 film this weekend that I had shot years ago and never got developed. Anybody in the US know where I can get it developed? I don't remember what's on it, or when exactly I shot it but I know it's a very old cartridge so the film should be pretty funky when it's developed.
Thanks,
-arturo.


www.panicfilms.com