VJ wanted for night in Bristol 17th May 03

[allStar]

Hi guys,

This is our first post to this website. We (Breakout) are looking for VJs who might be interested in Vjing at the Croft in Bristol this coming Saturday.
Unfortunatly the night is being run on a very strict budget so we won't be able to pay you, but it could be a good chance to showcase your work, and may lead to more work in the future.
Let us know if you are interested at:

helen.taylor@hctaylor.fsworld.co.uk

Thanks
Chris

[Anyone]

Originally posted by allStar

it could be a good chance to showcase your work, and may lead to more work in the future.


Really?
would you care to elaborate on how your gig specifically may lead to more work?
BTW, do you think it might lead to more money?
Ne1

[che67]

Originally posted by allStar

Unfortunatly the night is being run on a very strict budget..
Good to see promoters looking on VJCentral for talent..but
why can't some of that 'strict budget' be allocated to paying the VJ?

[viscountash]

i'm afraid that this is a bit of a common theme here in Bristol

[kommy]

its a common theme everywhere, especially if you allow it.
i wonder if the djs are getting paid anything?

[Primebase3]

always no budget always a space for new talent...always....

[spaceman]

"D.J. wanted for party, must provide megawatt P.A., Unfortunatly the night is being run on a very strict budget so we won't be able to pay you, but it could be a good chance to showcase your work, and may lead to more work in the future. "

Let us know if you are interested: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

[Amukidi]

Yup - same shit, different day.....sigh!

[Rovastar]

:)

I wish the promoter would reply to get his point of view across.

[InsideUsAll]

yeah come on mr/miss promoter whats your view on why the VJ isn't catered for in the strict budget. this is a viewpoint which could really be of use to us humble v.j's

[PilotX]

sometimes there is no budget for anyone at some nights (believe me I know having run some of them)..
perhaps this is one of those occasions.

[asterix]

I'd do it just for a bit of fun. At least pay for some equipment costs dude. And you cant tell me your not going to pull some $$$ on the door.

[InsideUsAll]

yeah, i'm well aware of the fun involved in running a night on no budget whatsoever. i just thought it'd be usefull to here from a promoters perspective why they can't justify splitting some of the 'next to non-existent' budget toward the v.j. somebody is making money there, and the more info we as a community have as to how thats distributed the greater opportunity we have to understand & maybe change this situation.

[PilotX]

Yep. I think the problem here is the same we've come across before. That visuals are not seen as needed in the same way that music or a venue is. A night without visuals isn't as good, but it doesn't kill it completely. Not at the moment anyway. I suppose that if a promotor thinks they don't ahve to pay, then they won't.. perhaps we should also be seeking to change the idea that you get a single vj for a whole night.. if we played sets, then the route for newcomers would be open in the same way as it is for djs.. more important then that, though is to raise the profile of visuals so that we are at the same neccessity level as lighting and decor. Very few nights will run without lighting or decor, and I think more are including visuals on the same list as that.
It would be nice to get to the level of music and venue, but I don't believe that is going to happen on a wide scale in the very near future... perhaps when all clubs have installed projectors and doing hour sets becomes a simpler matter. it will

Tom

[allStar]

Hi guys sorry it's taken so long to reply, busy busy busy.

I understand what your saying about the Vj appearing to be less important than the DJ but it's just not the case. As it happens we have Mark Austin from Sundissential & Slinky and we are not paying him a cent. The budget really is around ?150 - 200 as the night has been started on the back of a good party.

As far as future work and pay goes well it depends on how well the night goes in the future.

as far as the venue goes - we are talking the Croft in Stokes croft - 250 max capacity i think, it's not big. I think there may be a projector in there already but even that isn't assured.

I would like to be able to sort things out more for DJs VJs and all but the night has to get going first. I'm sure you can understand.

[Rovastar]

Sorry you took a bit of a hammering there Chris. More frustraction on promotors in general mainly.

It is good to see that you at least in theory respect the VJ and what he/she does.

Although You would not beleive the amount of promoters that do the 'can you do the first couple for free' thing. Ummh 5 grand or so of kit for a freebee ummh when some of us here are trying to do this is a sole source of income you see how problems arise.

Hopefully you will get someone to give up their friday/saturday night to play. Good luck with your night.

[allStar]

Thats ok mate

At the end of the day I can see your point.

A couple of my mates are trying to go into VJing professionally (They couldn't do the night, but pointed me to this site) they are having the same problems.

But the only thing you have to remember is that in many cases, esp. when a night is just starting out, the promoter has no assurance of making money at all.

Anyway, if things go well we will have a bigger budget for the next one so you may well see me posting here again.

Thanks Chris

[allStar]

Just to back up my mate chris...
We have ?80 profit form the last night that paid for the flyers. The rest of the money that has to be paid for hire/decor/lights/everything that goes with putting on a night has been paid out of my own pocket. I would also like to point out that all of the DJ's that are playing are doing it either for a favour or simply to get experience playing out - as you are probably aware there are far more DJ's/VJ's in Bristol than there are places to play out.
The whole point of Breakout is to bring the best of both the established and the unknown DJ's/VJ's of Bristol - we're not trying to make a quick buck but to give people a chance to get recognised. You've all made it clear that you are extremely established VJ's who wouldn't waste their time playing for ?0 cash - but if that isn't the case and you want to get yourself known then we are simply trying to help.
In the same way we wouldn't expect Carl Cox for gratis, we understand your position, but please understand that I am more likely to lose money from tomorrow night than make money, and any profit I make I promise to put into promoting the DJ's/Vj's of tomorrow that may not be able to get there otherwise.
Please remember we are only on your side..........

H

[unjulation]

fare play mate people get twitchy from time to time you just gota understand that the no mony give publicity blag has been used for dacaderds on us vj's
unj :)

[Primebase3]

Then why not give the night no vj's at all I always wonder why not focus on the night till it breaks even/makes profit and then expand??

just a question but I've also heard the no money/get publicity thing just one time to often. It's cool to give the party that finishing touch with visuals but if you can't open a budget for it why bother?

sure there are some new kids that will problably jump for the chance which is good: but give'm something after the 3rd time will you: it's frustrating to see a upgraded speaker soundsystem the size for a innercity event(dutch cats know!) in a area the size of a shoebox....and the vj still is getting zero.

my 0.02

[Amukidi]

"as you are probably aware there are far more DJ's/VJ's in Bristol than there are places to play out".

Ah! There's the root of this issue, which is a nationwide problem. Anyone with a pair of decks and a mixer is a DJ these days, likewise, anyone with a laptop and a VCR is a VJ. This makes it a buyer's market - very bad news for anybody to try and break into it. Couple this with the fact that many promoters will go for the cheapest option and we have a problem! Its called market saturation, The survival of the (paid) VJ as we know it depends entirely on how discerning the average clubber is - and I'm not wholly optimistic on this front. Sadly, I'm not convinced that the cream will float to the top, more that the "bottom feeders" will continue to play for free. As far as I can make out, clubs are a risky game to be in and their success/failure will be passed down to DJs and VJs. Interesting times ahead!

[Primebase3]

it's an international "problem" good news : people need to think of new ways to jump above everybody else if they want to make there dream (become "pro" for 99% of the people here me thinks) true. interesting and fun I think !!

[syzygy]

Originally posted by Primebase3
Then why not give the night no vj's at all I always wonder why not focus on the night till it breaks even/makes profit and then expand??

just a question but I've also heard the no money/get publicity thing just one time to often. It's cool to give the party that finishing touch with visuals but if you can't open a budget for it why bother?


Is there really any harm in these guys posting to find out whether anyone is interested in playing at this gig?

Sure, a gig at this scale is no use to anyone who wants to make a living doing visuals (apart from perhaps to build reputation). Well, guess what! Not everyone on these forums is is making visuals in order to make money. There may well be some people who just want to perform.

Plenty of musicians and DJs play for free every week - why shouldn't someone who is organising a party at least ask whether anyone would be up for doing some visuals for free?

By the logic of 'Don't bother with visuals until you have the budget' this guy wouldn't be booking any DJs either - they have no budget for that.

Come on guys - this thread makes it look like many of the membership of VJForums is motivated only by money. That can't be true, surely?

[Primebase3]

no course not but it's not about abuse of new talent as well !!
the thread is in the "business" line here so my question's seem to be valid?

maybe it's the dutch entrepeneur in me AND the fact that I heard this (no money ,new talent) thing a time to many , be honest with your audience: make it a "NEW TALENT NIGHT" and build the party around that.put the guys on the flyer , give them room to giveaway there free stuff and so on. promote them adequatly and the public will respect you for it .

if the night is a succes then add stuff with it dj's you love you can book when the break even/profit mark is reached. vj's you like you can book when the break even/profit mark is reached.

I'm not talking about the free rave sound system scene because that is a completly different thing : f%#k give me some water and I'm cool. but the minute there is a investment from the promotor, dj,bar,vj in a club enviroment where next to having fun it's also about improvising the clubnight. if the money is there ALL budget's should go up : not just the dj and promotor but the bar and the vj too soo that the night can grow in a good way.

sure there are some new kids that will problably jump for the chance which is good: but give'm something after the 3rd time will you: it's frustrating to see a upgraded speaker soundsystem the size for a innercity event(dutch cats know!) in a area the size of a shoebox....and the vj still is getting zero.

i think I said that too

$0.02

[Rovastar]

There is a fine line between abusing new talent and wanting to give new kids a chance.

[syzygy]

Originally posted by Primebase3
be honest with your audience: make it a "NEW TALENT NIGHT" and build the party around that.put the guys on the flyer , give them room to giveaway there free stuff and so on. promote them adequatly and the public will respect you for it .


Errr... I think that's what they're planning, especially given the name of the night:

The whole point of Breakout is to bring the best of both the established and the unknown DJ's/VJ's of Bristol - we're not trying to make a quick buck but to give people a chance to get recognised. You've all made it clear that you are extremely established VJ's who wouldn't waste their time playing for ?0 cash - but if that isn't the case and you want to get yourself known then we are simply trying to help.

(Quoted from one of the promotors a few posts previously)

So what is the problem here?

Dan.

[Rovastar]

I do not beleive this is the case here but how many times have you heard the 'We really care about the clubbers/community, we really like to make the experience special, etc, etc.' and all they are after is a quick buck.....ummmh....

I also think it is part of out job here to educate the promoters etc that is not a cheap hobby that anyone can do straight away.

I presume that the DJ is not bringing his own decks and mixer down for the event. Cost of this would be says 1210's about 400 tops each plus a 400 mixer. That ?1,200 I know many of the VJ community will have a lot more expensive kit then that for teh event.

[Primebase3]

maybe I got a little cold around the heart with the words "good publicity/nomoney" imo: there should always be pay even if it was just for expenses /rent of gear/ gas/whatever. even if it is a new talent night . Prime first 2 years was mostly events like this and the only thing that annoyed me (not ALL promotors we worked with!!! 90% are good people:)) was those few rotten apples that give the "good publicity/no money" it's bad name. little to no cash for getting out of the city. taking the rented gear with. to find out that the p.a system is twice the size necessary for the venue.

my apologies then if I sound a little bit ...cautious for events like this. I rather work in the collective kind of way. from throwing gigs in a small venue and growing in budget (simultaneously) to a bigger venue/better sound/better screens and so on. we had some experiences with those kind of nights and that was very cool.

I say please wait with the night (which is a good new talent concept) and wait till everybody can get there expenses out . succes of ticketsales or not. sorry for the "bashing" it's not intented like that,but I feel very strongly about this side of the "business" vj's ALWAYS get the bottom of the can which isn't fair : at least give them there expenses before hand.

that's all