Copyright and video production

[6071842]

Hey Guys,

I recently shot a night at a well known club. its one of them chain clubs.

so I'm in the production stage where i have captured the footage and i am ready to edit.

this is where the problem lies... when i asked which song i was to use they replied "its your choice just make it current and catchy"

when i mentioned who would be clearing the copyright and paying for it they have not responded for some time now.

so here are my 2 scenarios where copyright hasn't been cleared....

1) i pick a song then edit i get caught who is to blame? im under the impression it would be me? am i right in thinking this?

2) they pick a song and i then edit i end up getting caught im i still to blame for this or would it be the club/company?

i know this sound like very dumb questions but im a little unsure.

if they don't clear copyright what would you suggest? as for a percentage of what i have done and be gone with it?

Cheers :)

[SteveG]

They'll possibly continue to ignore awkward questions:) hoping you go ahead and add a well known track. If it's for a decent brand/chain you shouldn't find it too much trouble in finding a young producing DJ to supply you with something or a label who is keen for publicity only. The angle of publicity will have to be negotiated. If it's a hit track their looking for I tell them it's down to them to sort it out and offer to supply the silent disc. Ensure on your invoice you detail the supply of a silent disc with no audio involved. Music licensing is a nightmare.

[6071842]

Thanks for that Steve. i did have this in mind but the invoice is already in and ready to be paid.

In the north there are plenty of talented producers and dj's wanting a little break. i'll speak with them again and today and see what they say.

also my invoice stated that it i would be providing a shoot for the night and also DVD as they were a little unsure of format.

that's what i love about business it just isnt straight forward :)

[Rovastar]

I imagine they will not get clearance. Especially with their blanket "choose whatever you want".

You need them to sign a disclaimer saying that it is their responsibility to get the clearance for the music in the promo video (or whatever it is). IF you want you can even tell them the artist, track and label to help them out.

That way you are generally cleared of any responsibility of what they do with it.

If you give the impression (or fail to mention that) you have clearance then any legal action could be back to you.

If (and it is still a big if) a record company decides to sue then a it is very unlikely to come back to you as you can simply say it is their responsibility.

[6071842]

again thanks Rova.

its seems the finest line in what we do. with this disclaimer how would i go about this? produce one for them and ask them to sign?

i shot the video on one saturday night and it is basically one of them video's where you film the whole night of people partying having fun and then edit it in a montage and its put on the website saying... this is how good our club is.

:)

[SteveG]

If it's a decent club with decent residents you've found your man...he'll have better connections than you on the music front. Apply to his ego and tell him so;) Failing that the club management should be able to sort this out with ease...again if it's a decednt club with decent guest DJ's....they'll supply something for a few bookings.

[Rovastar]

I would first explain in an email (or chat first with a follow up email) your intentions.

Explain that it is their interest to choose the music which is most representative of their night and it would be more professional for them to choose the music. You don't want to pick a song that they rarely/never play, etc, etc. So it is better for them to choose.

When you say chain club I am thinking a little cheesy, so I expect they would not play music from underground labels (but just speculating here) so clearance would (officially) have to be made from the big boys and that is neither easy, cheap or quick (and you don't want to have to wait to get paid until they do). Anyway I suspect they will not even try.

Then I would write a disclaimer and get them to sign it when you hand over the content/dvd/etc.

Maybe make it part of a sign-off document (2 signed copies one for you, one for them) where you state that you have done the work, you are granting them license to use your copyright video work (or probably in this case you are giving them the copyright for the video work), etc, etc. This is a positive thing for them and will make you look more professional. Just add the disclaimer in there for the audio recording.:)

Explain that this is common practice for this type of work to ease their mind a little. I imagine they too have had little dealing with this sort of thing (public broadcast (Internet) or others copyright) so don't be too nervous about it.

(Probably nothing to worry about and probably not really worth mentioning and talking with my paranoid legal type head on but I am not sure how the filming of individuals and clearance for those individuals all works. I imagine that is not a real world problem unless you are showing people in a negative light and it is was filmed on their private property so I imagine it is far safer than filming members of the public.)

Hope this helps.

[AV3]

We mostly use music from a product called Phonic Food. You aquire the total buy out license to over 6 hours of fresh, broadcast quality production music, they have 2 volumes of it now, and you have all sorts of styles. The latest (volume 2) definately has music to suit, its obviously not chart hitting tracks, as you would have the same issues as above, but the production and sounds are extremely similar, so would be hard for the normal punter to realise.
http://www.phonicfood.co.uk/
There are some samples online of the tracks, but I will be putting our edit of Run To The Sun 2008 online by the end of the week, so you can have an idea of tracks then...
actually... work in progress...
http://www.avthree.co.uk/rttsp1.wmv

http://www.avthree.co.uk/rttsp3.wmv

These tracks were from Volume 1, Volume 2 has just been released and sound even fresher!!
Its an investment, at £199, but Ive used Volume 1 for the last 4 years and am still finding tracks on it that fit my edits!! and thats £199 for 6 hours of tracks that you can use for any purpose with no clearance issues!!!
Good luck!!

[john01]

They should pay for the usage of any tune used, and they should know this. They don't give away free beer, why should musicians give away free music.

If it was me I'd talk to one of my producer friends and ask them to dig up a track and to organize the payment of the royalties and charge the client, with a percentage for the producer's time and trouble.

ooooh Peace Time by Groove Corporation just came on, now here's a tune that needs to be heard in public more often.

[6071842]

Thanks John. ive tried to get in touch with the manager today but no luck. i'm getting a disclaimer together and here is an example. i have found.



Disclaimer

I/We ………………………………………………………………………………………
name of person or company

Hereby accept all responsibility for the equipment

description of item: ………..




and its constituent parts (Delete if not appropriate)

which is being sold for the sum of £………………. (+ VAT) (Delete if not applicable)

or given free of charge (Delete as appropriate)


I/We understand that the above equipment may not be in full working order and may not be safe to operate and its future use will be entirely at my / our own risk. I/ We will not hold the University of Warwick in any way responsible or liable for any incident or accident arising from the future use of the above equipment or any of its constituent parts.

I/we understand that it is my/our responsibility to obtain or procure any appropriate electrical test certificate and to check and satisfy myself/ourselves that the equipment is safe to operate and that I/we are responsible for ensuring that the equipment is operated in a safe, and where necessary secure environment, and in accordance with all manufacturers and recognised safety instructions"

I/We accept full responsibility for the eventual disposal of the equipment and/or its components in a manner that is safe and conforms to legislation in force at the time of disposal.

Signed by:

Department of Physics
The University of Warwick
Coventry CV4 7AL United Kingdom
Tel: 024 765 24263
Fax: 024 765 28409
Email: physicsadmin@warwick.ac.uk

___________________
individual /sole trader / authorised company representative (usually director)


___________________
Position

___________________
Date


but obviously change where necessary?

would this be a good template to go by?

cheers :)

[Rovastar]

Yeah that looks ok change obviously for your case.

Anything like that is ok it sound official with legai-se speak. But most a time a common sense, plain-ish English description of the situation will suffice.

[6071842]

cool thanks Rova :)

im going to get it finished and then post it up here and let me know what you think!

cheers :)

[vj_jasper]

depending on your employer, they might get a bit paranoid dude.

like, really, they know it is illegal and tried to get you to shoulder the responsibility of illegally using music in an online commercial...

and now you are trying to get them to not only shoulder that responsibility but also sign a form that definately pins it to them.

both situations are "not nice".

the Phonic Food idea mentioned earlier is a nice idea, however it requires a purchase of an entire 6 hours of music.. i would not recommend that.

still, the concept is a good idea and there must be cool places you can go, find a progressive house track license for promo-only usage for say $50... and hey presto, you look like the good guy, who not only makes good product, but also keeps it legal and shows good form.

getting them to sign a form, when they expressly asked you to find the music, is not the way to go. why???

think about it. think about the sentiment being expressed...

"you guys asked me to illegally use music on your promo and now i am going to do it but i want one of you to sign a form saying it is your fault."

compared to...

"you guys got me to edit your promo and of course music will be required and knowing that, i have researched the issue and found a legal way around it so your club can feel comfortable promoting itself. there it is on the bill, a $50 licensing fee... sweet eh? :)"

[Rovastar]

Yes jasper I understand that it is a tricky one hence why I was trying to place a positive-ish spin on it.

But you have to consider what music they want too and what is representative of the club. The club generally would want to have music that is played there, etc and this is probably commercial big label stuff and there are problems with the copyright.

I suppose the best position to be in is to give the client some options (as with any business)

a) We can provide the music with a commercial track for demonstration purposes only.

b) We can provide more generic commercial track but this will be x amount more. (and a tiny mark up for you)

It is nice to get the client to provide the music as you can have a more simple disclaimer stating we used the music provided by the said client and presumption was that they had responsibility. It is all about shifting the onus back top them.

To be honest this is something to consider before you people take on work like this I am sure many know will know and think of these things for next time. :)

It is handy for all VJs to have a few music contacts, small indy record labels, myspace friends, etc, etc that you can call upon. I have a made a couple of contacts so I can use music for my demo/promo material. This can be a simple as emailing/PMs an unknown music artist and getting permission then you will always have something. Most will be more than happy to have the promotion and you can return the favour by giving them a vj video for their own promotion on myspace, etc. A win-win situation.

[vj_jasper]

It is handy for all VJs to have a few music contacts, small indy record labels, myspace friends, etc, etc that you can call upon.
so true, so true .. :) i tried contacting Pete Gust (awesome deep house remixer) and Bluetech, but they gave me no time of day.

i contacted the Kaya Project, however their manager started talking about international licensing agreements.. this is because i did not explain myself properly. i was not ready for international licensing fees at that time, so had to back away from the deal.

heh... positive-ish ... cool term. there is a new word in australia, "possimistic" - meaning "positive and optimistic" started by a very individualistic character called "Travis" on australian big brother tv show. interestingly enough, they are not allowed to have any commercial music on that show, and contestants are not allowed to sing any commercial songs in the big brother house, so they all had to make up original songs, if they wanted to sing or play music.

i don't watch the show all that much tho. :D

[Rovastar]

so true, so true .. :) i tried contacting Pete Gust (awesome deep house remixer) and Bluetech, but they gave me no time of day.

i contacted the Kaya Project, however their manager started talking about international licensing agreements.. this is because i did not explain myself properly. i was not ready for international licensing fees at that time, so had to back away from the deal.


If you might have more problems with more established names/released artists. For the myspace stuff I was more thinking of unsigned/unreleased artists - there is so much stuff out there.

[Xoote]

thanks for all the info