When a VJ is a VJ...

[vjrei]

That is the other big question...

I have been having my own debate about it because some one with a laptop and a cracked version of resolume is a VJ as the person who have been doing it for 6+ years.

VJing is mixing but many disciplines are learned in the path like technical direction, photography, computer animation, even some audion engineering.

The best VJs are the one who can manage all these but not always.

Then still, there is a need to diferenciate each VJ by it skills. DJs are divided by music styles, that is easy. But VJs has like 30 different parameters to consider.

How do we make it easy to the world?

I now many good VJs in the US that just won't be able to make it in my city. Is like the one time I went to the Eye Wash and I was trying to mix there but I just couldn't, the music the DJ was playing was sooooo slow, not for my kind of visuals, I am not a VJ for a gallery for example.

VJing is like the 7th art on the streets, it incorporate every single artistic expresion: music, graffic desing, film, set creation, technology, scripting, photography... is the closest multimedia interaction and the most simple one if you are creative.

I believe a VJ is a VJ when you get to manage all that but that is way to complex for the world and too discriminatory. But of course, there are some guys around here (Caracas) that are just giving VJing a bad name specially producers that are creating false rumors so the sponsosr think we are less and therefore keep our rates close to zero.

I believe the nomenclature will come gradually because many producers have been coming to me with labels like "Visual Director" or "Visual Producer" because I get to manage lighting as well if the lighting guy is close to me.

So...

[PCProject]

he best VJs are the one who can manage all these but not always.


I now many good VJs in the US that just won't be able to make it in my city. Is like the one time I went to the Eye Wash and I was trying to mix there but I just couldn't, the music the DJ was playing was sooooo slow, not for my kind of visuals, I am not a VJ for a gallery for example.



I believe a VJ is a VJ when you get to manage all that

some guys around here (Caracas) that are just giving VJing a bad name


So...

i quite often think stuff about your posts and then i think "oh stuff it i will keep them to myself"........

but this time well i just couldnt resist a bite out of the apple

the quoted bits sum up what is in my head brilliantly

[Hambone]

Who cares? (Other than you, Rei...)

VJ? It's just a label, a title. Those who are really good at what they do in any discipline will succeed irregardless of what others are doing around them, or what they're called. Others will worry about it.

In fact, I think those who are bad at anything make those who are good look even better. It's that 'contrast' thing.

I don't care what others are doing. I just do what I like to do, and what I'm good at. Nothing else really matters to me.

[Anyone]

shades of grey...

[asterix]

I see your dillema Rie, have a look at this scenario:

Most people still think djs actually make thier music on thier little mixers - yet tweaking all those little knobs just adjust audio levels (its dissapointing to learn the truth!). Should it be the guy who actually makes the music be the star? Kid Kenobi is the so called 'best dj' in Australia yet he's only ever made a few crappy tracks even he doesn't play.

Now, have you ever heard of a big name 20,000 capacity crowd going to see someone spinning the latest ABBA or Metallica track? Hmmm I guess thats because people realise that its not that exciting when someones just spinning a disc. Yet implied in the name DJ (public perception) is that they are somehow constructing or assembling the music live.

My point I guess is name or label carries alot of wieght and can mask the blandness or the greatness of a true value. However, even in the dj world its not how its achieved that counts its what reaction you get from the crowd and your ability to promote it that improves your career. A higher earning dj doesn't necessarily do more than a lower paid but has a reputation and a name in thier own right (your not going to see just a dj but wow its Dave Seamen or whoever).

In your case REI you, as you probably should be, are shitty that someone playing free clips on cracked software has pulled the gig you rightfully probably deserved given your reputation, the work you've put in, experience and skills etc...

What you should be asking is 'how am I branding myself' as a desirable commodity and not what your title is.

[Liquidmetro]

Hmmm......You know I'm just not sure.

I think it is dangerous to judge your 'artwork', performance or 'VJ status' based on the technical knowledge that you have. Whilst in many situations this is essential. IMO your personal know how is irrelevant for the viewer, it is the end result that matters.

Discuss..... :)

[USE]

this thread makes me want to smash myself in the face with shovels.

[deepvisual]

DJs are popular not because of their limited talents, but because they are the leaders of the dancing ritual.
a doe see doe and away we go...
I think VJs get it wrong when they follow the DJ.
myself, I wasn't born to follow.
I'm not going to do a crap show just because the DJ hasn't got a clue.

[john01]

So you wannabe a rock'n'roll star ?

[vjrei]

What you should be asking is 'how am I branding myself' as a desirable commodity and not what your title is.

In want to point out averything as general as I can.

The particular situation here in Caracas is:

There are 3 mayor sponsors, Diageo, Polar Beer (like Budwiser) and Movistar (like At&T).

In the case of Diageo, they are married with two big production companies. Last year I started to work with one of those companies doing the visuals fro all the Smirnoff stuff.

The problem began when the guy who was booking me noticed I was taking a lot on influence on the show and they do not like that because their client was requesting for me a lot. Despite this booker has a deal with another provider and as I was bringing my equipment the other provider couldn't rent his and the solution was to find some "VJ"s (any graffic designer with resolume) and share some contract earnings with the booker.

So a campaing of "VJs are not importanta" and basing rates "based on equipment rather than talent" started to spread across Diageo.

Now, I barelly have a chance to enter in Diageo again as a provider because as an sponsored artist forget about it even the industry need it because I realized that I AM THE ONLY ONE WITH A DEGREE IN WHAT IA AM DOING IN THE ENTIRE CITY!!!! I have my audio engineer degree and the multimedia from Full Sail but the guy who was booking me is 37 years old and has only a High School Degree!!!!! that is why they are putting everything in terms of equipment and not creativity.

So, that is part of my world here, as I am moving higher I have people cutting my legs off, but now there are people who want to under estimate the VJ culture for economic reasosn, they want to hire some one for $500 instead of paying $5000 at least.

I got to talk on the phone with one of the sponsors directly and he told me "why a VJ has to charge more than a DJ". Well, I wrote him an 11 points document that I eventually going to translate and post here for future reference.

In conclusion: That is the scenario here, contrators convencing sponsors VJing is not as important as it seems even there are 9 6K lumens proyectors aligned in your show of 6K people.

I believe with time people will notice the difference and people do, they just do not want to accept it for convenience when they start to see the profits: "VJ is a VJ and no one will tell, lets hire the $50 one for my next Ravin (Buddah Bar) presentation....

[Liquidmetro]

Originally posted by USE
this thread makes me want to smash myself in the face with shovels.:lol:

[jonas m.]

I AM THE ONLY ONE WITH A DEGREE IN WHAT IA AM DOING IN THE ENTIRE CITY!!!! I have my audio engineer degree and the multimedia from Full Sail but the guy who was booking me is 37 years old and has only a High School Degree!!!!! that is why they are putting everything in terms of equipment and not creativity.

I might've misread your post, but since when did education have anything to do with creativity?!

[evomedia]

Maybe creativity=education is wrong , experience might be a more valid benchmark. I'm not saying creativity is not important, but I know plenty of people when I was at art college that lacked creativity but are good designers after years of learning by experience.

[sleepytom]

Ok i've been avoiding this bait for bloody ages now so i'm finally going to bite.

Rai you are an eejit.

You come here complaining that someone with a cracked copy of resolume is taking your jobs, in the same post you tell us that your undercutting the other production companies in your town and have even gone so far as to directly talk to sponsors to attempt to cut production companies out of the loop.

You proudly post in other threads telling us how your doing corporate work with inadequate equipment and as a result the end picture is very low res and it is the wrong aspect ratio.

Your technical knowledge is below average, your artistic work is fairly poor too (i've not seen it in the flesh but i've watched your showreel)

Your technique in business is to be cheaper than everyone else and offer a pretty poor service, as you know you can get a fair bit of work like this, however you cannot complain when someone else comes in even cheaper than you.

Of course if people are paying top dollar then they expect you to have top quality equipment - you have only very basic, domestic level gear so really your taking the piss by trying to charge as much as the pro-production companies.

[gnomatron]

I get to manage lighting as well if the lighting guy is close to me.

Do you mean at specific gigs or all the time? If it's all the time, what gives you the right to dictate to the lighting guy what to do? Why is your creative input more important that his? Most lighting guys are happy to work with vjs, but not for them unless they're the one paying their wages.

[many2]

Rai you are an eejit.


after preemptive war here is some preemptive explanation

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1999/02/99/e-cyclopedia/1643319.stm
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=eejit

(I had no idea what eejit meant and I suppose I am not alone)

[sleepytom]

haha yes indeed

see also veejit / vidiot ;)

[asterix]

I hardly think thats warranted. I've just had a look at your folio Rei and theres some high quality production there, and some sophisticated stage rigs that Im sure most vj's would only dream about. The bottom two clips are a bit iffy though.
Have you considered giving more information on the who/what/where/how? Tell prospective clients about the standard of planning required for your larger scale productions. Give examples of how you've taken a sponsors brief into final production and what was finally delivered. Grab testimonials from promoters and sponsors. Ditch those last two clips which I don't think say anything about who you are or what you do.
Now in the case of your other vj - don't focus on them and trying to tear them down. Focus on building yourself up and don't let your eye off the ball. Shit happens - people have to find out the hard way why investing in quality makes a difference. I mean Im sure they wouldn't employ a manager of a 2bit bar to run produce an event, or a sound tech who's done a few low profile gigs. You seem qualified and have experience but you don't appear to be making an effort to promote that - so who's gonna know the difference?

[vjrei]

Ok I?ve been avoiding this bait for bloody ages now so I?m finally going to bite.
-sleepytom, I am impressed of your comments and I never thought you could come with such low level argument but I am going to answer them in a proper mater to put you in your place and to settle a precedent of your ignorance.

S:Rai you are an eejit.
-People are so brave behind a computer keyboard.

S: You come here complaining that someone with a cracked copy of resolume is taking your jobs, in the same post you tell us that your undercutting the other production companies in your town and have even gone so far as to directly talk to sponsors to attempt to cut production companies out of the loop.

-I am going over a general concern. You have no idea how the market moves around here. Production companies just want to get the sponsor money, they do not care about quality. One producer told me once: Do not show too much to the sponsors. In other words: do not make us looks bad because they have a video department that suck. They have 4 iMacs with 256MB of ram at the most and they are the ones doing all the corporate events for PDVSA and CITGO overseas... I mean, they work with government money and they still telling me to keep my work inferior to them. Of course I go directly to the sponsor.

But if you are soo god why don't you offer your services to two of the mayor production companies: Nexus and Evenpro. I mean, send them your propousal and rates because as you know them so well probably you can come with an agreement.

I give you this week and I hope that by Friday the first you can post their reply. To save you time... they won't even answer you.

S: You proudly post in other threads telling us how your doing corporate work with inadequate equipment and as a result the end picture is very low res and it is the wrong aspect ratio.

-I work with what I can, I am increasing the aspect ratio but try to buy the adequate equipment when Chavez is giving you only $2000 a year to spend and the black market price is 3 times that while production rates have being the same for the last 3 years even we are facing an inflation of 17% per month. To give you an idea, the credit card charges you 24% instead the 7% you get in the US.

-Your technical knowledge is below average, your artistic work is fairly poor too (I?ve not seen it in the flesh but I?ve watched your showreel).

Well, come to Venezuela and do it better, be my guest. I will give you the housing for free.

S: Your technique in business is to be cheaper than everyone else and offer a pretty poor service, as you know you can get a fair bit of work like this, however you cannot complain when someone else comes in even cheaper than you.

-You are soooo inexperienced. Lets see if you can understand this. The booker of one production company was basically obligating me to use a remote camera. I didn't need a remote camera for my show, but they "sold" that camera to the sponsor as the best thing in the world. The remote camera was at the end one of those security cameras that are hanging inside those dark balls. Well, the production company installed the camera not on the ceiling but on a wall on a side. Of course the video was not horizontal but vertical...

That is what the provider of the production company does. Then I realized that the booker was getting a commission from the actual video provider for those sorts of things. "Hey offer this camera to the sponsor for X amount and I will give you half". I worked for that provider and that booker for almost a year.

That provider then got some guys to do visuals. Then they went to Hard Rock Cafe where my ex-girlfriend is the marketing director to offer her their VJs and a commission.

What the other provider is doing is putting all the equipment, even equipment they won't use and hire some guy with a laptop and the... there is the VJ. Of course those VJs cost way less than me but the provider is installing the equipment, if you consider the relationship at the end the same visual work cost twice as mine with less than 10% of the talent because that VJ never ever has the chance to put his hands on the equipment the provider has.

Then, as the booker has the contacts a commission goes to him.

That is how their are killing the VJ business.

What do I do? They have to ask me for rates any way for every show even they are not going to hire me. What I do "under the same language" is to give them my highest rates, for a show that cost 4K I give them 6 or 8K.

Then I go to the sponsor to tell them, I can give you a 4K-package price for you if you give me several events.

That is to be street smart, at the end, I am costing that dirty couple around 12K or more in numbers they are hiding. Because if their VJ is charging them more they will show on paper the same low rate but they will increase a bit in the rest of the equipment to compensate.

And that is just one tiny example. A friend of mine who is a provider too asked to a college for some screens for a show. This show was with Luis Miguel, is like saying Elton John. So, the day of the event the provider said he couldn't give him the screens for X excuse. My friend had to find other screens at last minute. Then this provider went to his client days later offering his services because he though my friend screwed the show. That is called dirty sabotage.

I have to won my own equipment because if I rent one for sure it won't work.

So, come here to do your business.

S: Of course if people are paying top dollar then they expect you to have top quality equipment - you have only very basic, domestic level gear so really your taking the piss by trying to charge as much as the pro-production companies.

-Ok, how do you know they are getting to quality equipment from the other production companies? Have you ever been in Venezuela? From where are you getting that information?

If you are saying that I assume you know those companies and have seen their equipment, can you name them?

sleepytom stop being such a looser with no arguments! Why you put yourself under that position without knowing anything? Did you read what I just posted?

? I am the only VJ in Venezuela with more than one computer. I have 4, 3 PowerBooks and a quad G5.

? Not a single production company has a Quad G5? Only Imacs with the basic ram at the most and the operator makes less than $300 a month. Just guys who recent graduated from the only multimedia school witch pen sum I helped to create 5 years ago. Once they want to charge more they get replaced by some one else and they are sent to do other sort production work until they resign because by law you cannot fired any one in Venezuela.

? Not a single production company know what a Triple Head 2 Go is? I am the only one in the country with one.

? I am the only provider who has at list 3 working switchers in stuck.

? I am the only provider with a Kramer 16x16 matrix switcher.

The rest of the production companies are charging an estimate of $50.000 for their small events and spending only $2000 in video. They are using equipment from the 80's. Their technical personal does has probably only high school.

sleepytom, dude, I know I am going to see you. I have to go to England soon because I do travel to get experience instead of the lies you draw in your head and I would like to see your face once you have me in front of you. You are going to turn white, transparent, you are going to sweet cold and with your shaking hands and your tail between your leg you are going to introduce yourself to me as nothing happened before.

And be careful because if I perform that same day you are going to look so bad.

Again, only cowards get brave but only when they are behind a computer keyboard.

[deepvisual]

sleepytom, dude, I know I am going to see you....... You are going to turn white, transparent, you are going to sweet cold and with your shaking hands and your tail between your leg ......

thats strange.
I felt like that the first time I saw tom.
but I did have the flu at the time.

[hamageddon]

haha yes indeed

see also veejit / vidiot ;)
and dont forget about the vjerks :jester:

[vjrei]

The truth about Sleepytom

I just call him to his phone number on his web site. Yes, I took the time to make an international phone call from Venezuela to England that cost me 2 Euros a minute.

What I have found out on the other side of the line was a guy who was so doped that couldn't put two words together that makes sense. All he could say is that "I was helping you". A guy who was so dope that couldn't put two words together that makes sense.

He said: eejit was a word he saw in some funny tv show we have in England.

Any way, for those who PM me just to let them know that do not pay attention to those kind of people, probably they are raphic desingners and have some creativity but that is it. Again, I felt I was talking to a mentally changenge who couldn't even speak nor think faster than me even English is their first language. I wasted to many minutes listening to him saying du, dab, duhh, dab, Ohh, ahh, Mm,.. momboling.

What ever. I thought I was going to talk to some literated technician or engineer with some real arguments. The reality was totally different.

[sleepytom]

umm i was just phoned up by an incoherent person who's spoken English is no better than his written...

Rai I really am trying to help you - my main advice is to try and work with production companies and other VJs - rather than seeing someone who'll do a gig for $200 as a rival why not employ them to come and help you do the gig. they will learn from your experience and you will get a helpful assistant.

VJing is not about motion graphics, it's not about how many macs you own, its first and foremost about getting on with people (ironic me saying this??) Taking on the big production companies is a difficult task for anybody and I certainly would not recommend it to an individual. Better to make friends with the production people, to be able to work with them (which is a two way street, if they give jobs to you then you should try and bring them in on your own jobs).

I'm sorry you feel insulted Rai I didn't intend to upset you. If your ever in england your more than welcome to come and see me, we can have some tea and maybe have a better chat where we understand each other better.

[Rovastar]

Rei,

Tom always sounds like that. ;)

Seriously I think few here would dispute that Tom knows what he is talking about technically. He has worked on some big shows and has a good working knowledge of lots of kit.

Sorry to say that I have I have the impression that he knows more than you on a technical level. Maybe this is to due in part to the lack of technical equipment that you have access to in your part of the world.

As I understand it the average national annual wage is about $5,000 US in Venezuela and you are looking for far more than this for a single show. The average UK national wage is 10 times but no doubt the cost of living is much more expensive too.

I know the cost of kit is a lot for you but please don't focus too much on this. Not every production company has the latest projectors, matrixes, mixers, etc. Just because you have new kit doesn't mean you can put on a better show.

Your issue are with big production companies and you are in the big league now in your country. This comes with new challenges and although I think you are a better businessman than most VJs I come across the next step up (and maintaining that step up) is a constant battle. You are trying to focus more like a production company and play them at their own game but with the additional focus of better visuals and cheaper cost. This all sound a good, solid business plan but you need your contact and business is very little without the contacts. You need to maintain relationships and forge new ones the production companies do have a lot to lose here so they will battle hard. I personally don't know an VJs that have successfully taken on the big production groups - often they are used in conjuction with them.

[asterix]

:grouphug: :up:

[Rovastar]

Also there are many types of "VJ" some think they would be able to do everything. Personally I think there are different specialist areas I often see a "jack of all trades, master of none" rather than one has to know it all.

Many more venues have projectors, etc now so owning one is less important for the smaller shows.

I know next to nothing about a LED screens or matrix display, etc but if I need such things for a show I can hire a VJ/expert that knows about such things. I don't class it as a something I need to know.

Being a A/V hire company is something I am not interesting in nor do I think it is a prerequisite to being a good VJ.

And some build elaborate structures like LegoMan or Inside-Us-all and they can be more adding to the whole decor of the events. The scope of the VJ is far and wide.

[johnnylocust]

Rei. If your self-serving, sophomoric post about how great you are is any indication of your professionalism, I doubt you'll make Tom look bad. Also, Brits travel in packs, so the physical threat's probably not such a great idea either.

[vjrei]

I am having a good relationship with other production companies with other clients.

Last year I worked a lot with Diageo and Smirnoff products and I started to face those problems. I tried to work them out over the year but with no result. Then, and because that is what people do, they cerated the image of what a VJ do at their convenience to the sponsor. Currendly what theri VJs make are not enough to pay the phone bill. They hire a guy with a laptop but overcharge big time for the rest of the equipment they give to the VJ to use.

And I am fine there still, but not some other practices like going to my ex girlfriends work at Hard Rock Cafe and put things on her head so she get upset at me and they can now come an introduce their VJ plan.

Again, I triple my rates for them and then I go to the sponsor with better rates... business. And the original reason of this tread is to clarify here and there about VJing because so many people are so confuse because so many variables.

On the other hand...

I am currently working for another production company, is an small office, just 5 people. The owner is a lady whose husband has tons of money and she just wanted to have a production company for parties and she have been growing a lot.

Her sponsors know me personally and she told me after a good show we did together that: what can I do to prenvent you working directly with the sponsor?

I told her: as long you keep me busy and with good rates averything is fine. Then my job is doing visuals not hunting clients.

She understood and so the good impression my work was doing over her clients compared with what the clients have seen before. I mean, she saw " the reward beyond the transaction".

Now she is sending me about everything, any amount of videos to produce every week, as she is in another cicle of people she know what quality brings and is working for her. I am too adapting my prices and I even ask her "what works for you?".

I mean, everything is fine. And yesterday got even better because she was doing a press show in another state and she asked me for a DVD. I gave her 2 DVD (original and a copy) well printed and labeled. At same time some one gave her about 8 others DVDs that SHE HAS TO GIVE TO THE PRESS hand written and insart of some cheap plastic envelopes. I mean, she was in shocked but it was good.

Well, the same "cheap handwritted DVDs" is what Diageo is getting and that is considered and standard here. The sad part is that there is so much money!!!! production companies are investing less than 25% in actual production. I hearded from a producer said: to make a proffit you have to charge based on a 71% proffit.

Then... culturally....

because of Chavez in the last 8 years many talented people have left the country. One of my mentors when I used to do 3D back in 1997 was an industrial designer. He is in Miami right now. He left as many other people have.

That gave room for other people to take their places. In the big production companies the people who used to carry the equipment are now the technical directors.

You have to consider than in a country like Venezuela those people hardly graduated from a public school. They have never been outside Venezuela, of course they do not even know how to read the manual of certain equipment because they do not speak English.

When Fat Boy Slim came to Caracas last year, I, The VJ, had to translate everything to the Technical Director of the production company.

So, key positions have been taken by people who just have no idea where to go or think about something towards the future.

Then, as they receive a salary that just doesn't work (less than $400 a month) they need to negociate under the table. So talent goes down the toilet even in big budgeds events.

I know housing is expensive over seas, I have lived in the US and touched Germany. But at least you have social security, at list you have good interest rates.

Here there is no social security, interest rates are 24%, inflation 12%. A littler of water 40 times more expensive than a little of gas.

Imagine that I get $300 a month, then I have to buy a V4 or any other equipment. Those praces are based on retail price in the US, plus custum taxes. So, a V4 cost $1600 here. And then.... you have no service. If I want to have it fix I have to send it to the US, is like sending it from New York to Australia.

Apple care... it takes 4 month to get a part in here. There is an Apple distribuitor for Latin America in Miami and I have to beg for the Apple dealer here in Caracas to call every day so the part of my powerbook is requested before Argentina or Colombia or Brasil does.

-How do you expect to have the latest technology?

-How much will cost to have the latest technology if there are not creative minds who know how to applyed?

-How am I going to sell my services if I had bands of providers and prducers creating smog cortains because if the sponsor get to know me they will marry me for ever and their $40K froud will go down the toilet.

There is not a single creative person in the 40+ production companies in Caracas.

I am moving slowly to some big sponsors, I may do the American Idol final here in Latin America. The people at Sony are rubbing their eyes when they knew me a few weeks ago.

But is because is another level of people. Instructed poeple, people that graduated from my same private school, people who have lived overseas and know that traveling is not going to Disney World.

There is where I am having comunication.

just yesterday I was at the nursing hospital talking to an sponsor who wanted to check some things while he was attending his wife who had a baby girl yesterday. They are soooo glad.

But again... they need to know what a VJ can do because then the other production company comes with their VJs who "downloaded resolume last week" and say: we can do the same and cheaper. And here we go again...

[stealthsyst3ms]

some people type long threads on here;)


mentioning no names...... give it a rest dude;)


the vibe i get when i read most posts, is that of me and my equipment, costs, more equipment;)




I do it for the love of it, always will!


I still class myself as a waster though, and no where near the term 'VJ'

[deepvisual]

I am very familiar with the concept of uptight people who talk endlessly about themselves and how fantastic they are- in London we call them Gakheads.
Myself, I gave up gak when I realised I was really uptight all the time and talked bollox anyway.... saved myself a fortune
But I do I have to ask, is it a coincidence that this thread originated in a latin american country? Could this be a homegrown case of The Inca's revenge......??

[john01]

Funny you should say that, I was just going ask if someone was powdering his nose.

[asterix]

Ok this schoolyard bs has got to stop - NOW.
It is pissing me right off to see even senior members of this forum resorting to pathetic schoolyard attacks that are highly insulting and unwarranted. You jump on Rei like a pack of wolves where the same post from anyone else wouldn't bat an eyelid. Its gutless, immature and downright pathetic. This standard of behaviour drags this forum down into the fucking gutter. Smarten up. I will consider temp banning any member who resorts to this unwarranted garbage and you can strip my bloody mod status if you want to argue about it.

[jimmyogenic]

ah, its all toys prams and throwing things

;)

[USE]

handbags at 10 paces...
http://www.pinkforpower.com/graphics/handbag.jpg http://www.teachwithmovies.org/guides/high-noon-DVDcover.jpg

[deepvisual]

in all fairness to Rei.
no one on the board really understands how business is done in venezuela.
standard practices vary tremendously from country to country.
what is normal in one place can be seen as being outrageous in another.
for example, drug taking is considered totally fine in the UK but carries a mandatory death penalty in Malaysia.
In the same way, bribery is considered normal in many places but would cause outrage in somewhere like Japan.
I'm looking forwards to his visit to the UK. I'm sure Rei is a genius at doing amazing things with limited resources.

[iro3]

In the same way, bribery is considered normal in many places but would cause outrage in somewhere like Japan.

No, it is SOP amongst politicans, construction companies, transportation, etc..
"Dango" or bid-rigging is a fine art here, along with so many variations of consulting fees that the US Washington Lobby and Beltway Bandits would go just weak at the knees in envy.

And if you are caught, following the the deep apology on National TV, 90 degree bow, and a suitable period of rehabilitation, it is back to business as usual.

Like Sir Humphrey Appelbee's famous irregular verbs...

I negotiate confidential consulting fees
You offer discrete incentives
He/ She/ It gives bribes...

[vdmoKstaTi]

Whenever I read Rei's posts, to me it all sounds a bit like a soap opera...

Very entertaining... I love you Rei :)

[deepvisual]

"Dango" or bid-rigging is a fine art here,
sure, nowhere is perfect.
but its easier to bribe a cop in the 3rd world than developed countries.
offer a bung when you are caught speeding here and you'll usually end up doing time.

anyway, my point is, its easy to poke fun when things are done differently, but maybe thats just the way it is there.

[john01]

Right on cue a cabinet member hung himself today rather than face a grilling over shady finances.

This is a big difference in Japan, if the bowing act doesn't work there is the completely ignore the issue tactic al a Ms "I'll have my secretaries' salaries too please" Tanaka, but if the unko really hits the senpuki then doing the honorable thing is not unheard of. (senpuki = fan)

As opposed to the USA or UK where a politician can happily tell lies, start a war, cause untold number of innocent people to die, women, children & men, then retire happily as an after dinner speaker.

By the way of you are caught speeding in Japan bribery is not an option, but the police are very nice about fining you, I should know, I'm a regular contributor.

[asterix]

Japans a relatively crime free / corruption free land though isn't it. Perhaps if the western world understood the value of honour rather than self image in the superficial sense.

Either way I do see a bit of lost in translation which I guess should be expected and tolerated in a global forum.

[john01]

No it isn't.

Right now we are having a bit of a nasty crime wave. Beheadings, stabbings, shootings, stranglings.

Corruption is endemic, I used to be freelance, one of the reasons I gave up was because I refused to give backhanders so my work started to dry up.

The Japanese police are the only police force in the word who can look at a victim with multiple stab wounds and say "Probably a suicide". This really happened. Hence the apparent low crime rate.

[6071842]

Beheadings, stabbings, shootings, stranglings.

The Japanese police are the only police force in the word who can look at a victim with multiple stab wounds and say "Probably a suicide". This really happened. Hence the apparent low crime rate.

is this all over japan or any certain areas? Beheadings, thats really savage, is it gangs or what...

[john01]

The beheading was a 17 year old boy who killed his mother, chopped off her head, put it in a bag and eventually took it to a police station. Apparently he wanted to kill his brother too.

When the Japanese flip out they really flip out

[deepvisual]

they have a long tradition of that sort of thing...

http://img.search.com/thumb/1/1d/Slayers.jpg/350px-Slayers.jpg
Two Japanese officers, ( prison guards) Toshiaki Mukai and Tsuyoshi Noda competing to see who could kill (with a sword) one hundred people ( Prisoners) first. The bold headline reads, "'Incredible Record' (in the Contest to) Cut Down 100 People—Mukai 106 – 105 Noda—Both 2nd Lieutenants Go Into Extra Innings"

[6071842]

The beheading was a 17 year old boy who killed his mother, chopped off her head, put it in a bag and eventually took it to a police station. Apparently he wanted to kill his brother too.

When the Japanese flip out they really flip out

man thats crazy! going to do a little googling and find out some more :up:

[john01]

they have a long tradition of that sort of thing...


They were liberating Asia from the Western yoke.:nod:

[deepvisual]

hmm liberating POW's heads with a katana?
sounds like the same kind of freedom the US is currently bringing in Iraq.

maybe its not obvious from the photo, but those two guys weren't running their competition on the battlefield.

oh well, those were the days I guess.
now its just the schoolkids who are allowed those sorts of priviledges.
they ran a documentary here a year or two back on how under 18s in Japan often do less than a year at reform school for murder.

[asterix]

John01 that suprises me - in our japanese class we watched videos on how tiny the crime rate was. ahhhh the reality hurts!

[john01]

That's a pretty famous picture, it is from Manchuria, the vicitms were all Chinese, who were also used for bayonet practice and vivisection.

Some people maintain that the 1930s was an aberration, a departure from the true spirit of Japan since the country was hijacked by the military. One thing that remains in my opinion is the ability to be callous, to divorce from another's suffering.

My shakuhachi teacher's father was killed in Manchuria in the 30s, my teacher has had a deep dislike for the imperial system ever since. Not all of the troops were willing recruits. He also resented having to wear a military uniform for school.

When you watch footage of Japanese soldiers from the second world war, especially those surrendering in Okinawa you might see a skinny asian guy, I see faces of people I might know. In some attitudes I detect the remnants of certain propaganda films (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1446124533986468176&hl=en)even today.

[john01]

John01 that suprises me - in our japanese class we watched videos on how tiny the crime rate was. ahhhh the reality hurts!

There are tiny things in Japan, but not the crime rate. Crystal Meth is a big problem, I suspect a lot of the nasty crimes are a result of speed psychosis.

If you get some Japanese propaganda merchant telling you Japan is a happy law abiding country ask him or her about the Waseda Super Free club. I bet they will feign complete ignorance.

[makemassair]

yakuza? they sound fairly mental.

[john01]

yakuza? they sound fairly mental.

The yakuza perform a useful function in society, together with the police and immigration office they ensure that no Japanese women are victims of human trafficking, unfortunately the same guarantee isn't extended to other east asian women.

On a daily basis the average citizen doesn't really have any reason to worry about the yakuza, however chimpira (yakuza wannabes) can be a real problem.

[Hive]

What an interesting conversation goes on here!

[Hive]

Hey, John01, is it true that there is no street crime in Japan? Here in Kiev in my neighborhood i used to see street fights almost everyday. However this summer i must say it's pretty calm, maybe it because the weather is too hot for fighting. :)

[john01]

There isn't much random violence in Japan, of the "Did you spill my pint ?" type we had in the UK in my youth. Tempers get a bit frayed towards the end of summer, the humidity and crowded trains & cities can cause stress. Sounds like the opposite of Kiev.

[Hive]

There isn't much random violence in Japan, of the "Did you spill my pint ?" type we had in the UK in my youth. Tempers get a bit frayed towards the end of summer, the humidity and crowded trains & cities can cause stress. Sounds like the opposite of Kiev.

Well, i did not mean the whole city, i would not like to make people think that living here is the endless fight among some savages but here at outskirts it gets dangerous sometimes. It's pity that local criminals don't bother themselves with perfoming any useful social functions like japanese yakuza do.

[asterix]

I heard on the radio yesterday that someone stole a 120,000,000 YEN gold bath tub from a hotel!! lol!

[vdmoKstaTi]

The yakuza perform a useful function in society


True? :up:

[iro3]

True? :up:

In Dubro and Kaplan's book Yakuza, one of the standard textbooks on them, they are defined as Japan's second police force. They were used Post WW2 as enforcers for the occupation, for supporting Korea, as anti-Communists, and numerous other US adventures in the Pacific.

They are a lot more effective than the local "plod".

[deepvisual]

I met an Ex GI in tokyo who left his car engine running outside a nightclub.
he was just going to pop in...
the car was still there 3 hours later when he came out with the keys in the ignition and the engine still running.

down in the south, people leave the keys in their parked motor bikes with the helmets on the seats.
and with a vending machine for every eleven people, there is obviously little going on in the way of theft.

the only bad thing about all this, is that whenever there is a crime it is very easy to blame it on foriegners, so the Japanese can sound like Alf Garnett most of the time ( a 1970s comedy racist).
they also do this great line in amnesia.
especially about the middle of the last century.

there were an unusual amount of historic buildings mysteriously burned down at the time, but no explanation as to why or how?

[Hive]

True? :up:
True. Yakuza is a sort of what you Grisha know as uchastkoviy ;)

[john01]

especially about the middle of the last century.

there were an unusual amount of historic buildings mysteriously burned down at the time, but no explanation as to why or how?

Most of Tokyo got burned down too, and a lot of people died too. Fire bombing was used because of all the wooden buildings.

The yakuza do act like a kind of police, people are reluctant to get into random arguments in case the other person is a yakuza.

They also control a lot of the entertainment industry, from prostitution to rock concerts. Most clubs will have some degree of yakuza control (ooh we are getting dangerously close to being relevant to Vjing here). It is unlikely you will be aware of the yakuza if you are playing a gig here. If you are promoting a gig here you may find yourself dealing with them, and if you are unlucky you might find your profits for the evening erased by a cigarette burn on a carpet. On the other hand I know one major club here which is run by the yakuza and all the staff are very professional, and they are very straight. The sound guy at this club makes all the gear himself and was able to identify a piece of equipment that was stolen. The thief spent the next six months sweeping the road outside the club every night. This is the nice side of the yakuza.

The nasty side involves shootings, beatings, extortion, drug dealing, prostitution. Depends on who you run into really, generally if you are a clean living citizen you will barely notice they exist. I used to live just up the road from Kabukicho, Shinjuku's red light district, you'd see the boys out in all their finery from time to time, but so long as you mind you business they mind theirs.

On the other hand I heard a story about a guy who subletted an apartment in Kabukicho itself, one night he came home and was challenged by a yakuza who demanded to know what he was doing there, when he said he lived there the yakuza said "No you don't". The guy went off to the police box for help but all the cop said was "Move out, we've found bodies in that apartment complex"

So all in all, a lot of gaijin seem to get some fascination with the yakuza, people seem to think it is cool if you have some association with them, but in reality it is wise to give them a wide berth, you never know what you are getting into. A buddy of mine was asked to do a website for the yakuza, a porno site they obviously intended to use as a way of extorting money from pervs (I declined the offer to help). He went to their offices for a meeting, next day he read in the paper that their had been a shooting in that office a couple of hours after he left, he decided to decline the job offer too.

[sharpie]

Wow interesting post, thanks for sharing that with us.

[eduzal]

(...) Kabukicho, Shinjuku's red light district(...)

when i get to tokyo, i know where to hang out.

cheers people

[john01]

when i get to tokyo, i know where to hang out.

cheers people

say "Hi" to the Columbians

[caraquenio]

I was forced to sign in in this great vjforums.com ,just to say a few things. I'm from Venezuela (same country as VJ REI) i can't contain myself of reading him.

I have been having my own debate about it because some one with a laptop and a cracked version of resolume is a VJ as the person who have been doing it for 6+ years.

Listen dude. A Vj is very complex matter.You can easily do your visuals in after effects.Film something and then edit it.Even stop motion (as -venezuelans living in spain- do, NO-DOMAIN (http://visuals.no-domain.com/). They do very creative stuff, they do paint.cut, past their figures.

Everything is about PRODUCTION. CREATIVITY

If you make your things GOOD, NO ONE cares if you have the latest version of 'resolume' or if you did buy or not.That simply doesn't matter to anyone, or any client except for yourself.

Your may have been one of the first vjs in venezuela,but that doesn't make you better than any of the new vjs over here, even if you were.It's all about keeping your work fresh, well done and don't stuck in one style, in this case, your style that you keep since 1997.You can't possibly convice a client with visuals with one video and ARIAL or HELVETICAS over it.

because as an sponsored artist forget about it even the industry need it because I realized that I AM THE ONLY ONE WITH A DEGREE IN WHAT IA AM DOING IN THE ENTIRE CITY!!!! I have my audio engineer degree and the multimedia from Full Sail

Please don't fool the international comunity.We may be fuc*d up because of our political situations,but venezuela is not the 'tiny 5th world country' that you are trying to picure here. You just don't know every educational degrees or formation of every single person that makes vj over here.

I am the only VJ in Venezuela with more than one computer. I have 4, 3 PowerBooks and a quad G5.

Again.Your room is not the hole world.Go outside.Take a walk.Really!

You will find people there!

This a 25 million people country. There are MANY vjs that have more than one computer...but they just need ONE or TWO to make its job done, and, is enough.

Any way, for those who PM me just to let them know that do not pay attention to those kind of people, probably they are graphic desingners and have some creativity but that is it

DUDE.please.you know, and everyone of us know, that even if you are very good editing (you are one of them),now, 2007,that is NOT enough.

You have to create you graphic concepts.Animate them GOOD (not just one object, one light and 2 cameras in after effects like you do).

You just have to educate your self even more everyday to compite with kids that are 19+ with their heads full of IDEAS, that simply don't care a thing about a cracked resolume. Even if you have all that willy-wonka factory equipment that you say you have,if your idea,or your graphic concept is SH*T, the client (obviously) will go with them.

Recently, and thanks to the evolution of the small electronic escenes here in venezuela (drum and bass,hiphop),so many vjs have come up, and ALL OF THEM are graphic designers, use buyed or cracked resolume or other vk software, and their works are simply flawless. NO-DOMAIN comes from that school, and they are one of the most remowed names right now in EUROPE.

Please dude.Keep it real. There are like 15 well recognized vjs here from different crews some of them with more like 7 years doing the job,and of course an always growing number of new vjs that are influenced NOT BY YOU ,but from the internet,tv,magazines,etc.

You guys can go to www.r-ev.net (http://www.r-ev.net).That is the main design portal here in venezuela. At the bottom of the site,there are small grey logos that link to the greatest designers in venezuela,and 99% of them are vjs.

I personally do not vj becuase i'm just an electronic music and vj fan,but please VJ REI. I know your work because i was a big fan or rave parties back in 99 (i even thought that you quitted the vj business) but you are far away to be the 'vj superstar' that you pretend to be here. There are many many most recognized vjs than you and they are not whining on forums.

They are doing it's JOB


NO-DOMAIN AT SONAR (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug4h93OZRGs)

(hey,they are using candles and a paper,are you better than they because you have you resolume serial and your 5 laptops?)

[asterix]

cool link. I think its very effective.

[many2]

wow - the no-domain stuff is really good and tremendously inspiring. Thanks for the link :)

[lowRes]

inspiring!
impressive good use of low tech!

[vdmoKstaTi]

True. Yakuza is a sort of what you Grisha know as uchastkoviy ;)

Tovarish uchastkoviy, dostan' vorobushka :)

[Architects of Tomorrow]

because as an sponsored artist forget about it even the industry need it because I realized that I AM THE ONLY ONE WITH A DEGREE IN WHAT IA AM DOING IN THE ENTIRE CITY!!!! I have my audio engineer degree and the multimedia from Full Sail

I just have to chime in here. I see the work Full Sail and my stomach turns in knots. I attended Fullsail after I graduated from U of Miami with a film degree. I thought that the digital media experience would be a nice touch to the film aspect - Let me just say that place is the biggest joke on the planet. Like a puppymill for digital media. The only thing that you learn there is how to get up at two in the morning for class. That how many people they push through - they tell you that it is for "real world experience" I learned more in one semester at Miami then I did all 16 months at fullsail. Forget about job placement. What a joke!!!!