Describing your performance...

[Lara]

Ok for my essay I am exploring a little bit the experience of performing 'live'

How does it feel for you? Is it a different 'state'? Does your body feel different? Do you feel different as a person?

What makes a good feeling while performing? What makes a bad one?

Any experiences gratefully received, I am hoping for quite a range of views >>>

Thanks!

x

[SteveG]

Ok for my essay I am exploring a little bit the experience of performing 'live'

How does it feel for you? Is it a different 'state'? Does your body feel different? Do you feel different as a person?

What makes a good feeling while performing? What makes a bad one?

Any experiences gratefully received, I am hoping for quite a range of views >>>

Thanks!

x

Hi Lara,

How does it feel for me? good :)

Does my body feel different? Yes!.... and so will yours at my age :)

What makes me feel good......when a good DJ misses his cue when mixing because he's watching your visuals :) Getting loads of hand shakes and well done signals throughout the night from the punters....the beer flowing well from the promoter, the promoter giving you a little extra ;)

What makes a bad one.....sooooooooo many :) the obvious...promoters trying to do a runner on you, blue screen, showing the pioneer logo mid set because I've forgotten to put the thing on black display, punters asking what your doing, punters asking you to play a certain tune, computer crashes...the list goes on :)

Hope the essay goes well.

[Lara]

Cool, thanks. But what does it feel like to be 'in the zone' of the performance?

[SteveG]

The only zone I normally get caught in is the London congestion zone :) If the punters, DJ's promoters are enjoying what your doing it just gives a great deal of pleasure I suppose. If you've worked hard on a particular aspect it gives a great feeling of achievement and helps the beer go down that little bit quicker :).......and sometimes it makes you dance :eek:

[holly]

I'm not sure how to describe the zone feeling....It's sort of a bubble that comes over you when you see the performance is really hitting. I kinda get a spine meets occipidal lobe brain tingle and a little rush. As long as you can keep it flowing with the next content and build on it, you can keep the rush feeling.

I certainly know when I've fallen out of it and am struggling for a thread to rebuild.

[Lara]

Do you think when you're VJing it's a heightened state of intuition? How do you just 'know' when the clips are right?

Thanks Holly interesting answer as always

[denee]

with nootrops i can even predict what next track will be about
and starting to search for keywords before dj fade it in

[PilotX]

I tend to go completely introverted when I'm really getting into it, especially with rehearsed sets.. I'll pretty much loose everything bar the audio and video monitors, pay no attention to the crowd/screen, just the sound and video, not even other performers unless I'm relying on cues from them.
always been this way, not just with visuals, if I'm playing in a band I do the same. If I know a piece well enough I'd close my eyes as well so I could only hear the music and what I was playing..
I feel completely different as a person at that point, i'm confident and that is the only time that I ever feel confidence... only with rehearsed pieces though, ones which I have played through and know what I need to do.. it's also the only time I feel creative, not so much with visuals (which are not live enough) but playing in bands where we knew each other and the songs well enough to improvise around them..
to be honest, I feel like a completely different person when it's at that stage..
part of it I'm sure is the nerves turning to adrenaline and the music kicking off dopamine production (cocaine = dopamine and adrenaline, plus a little seratonin). Holly puts it very nicely, I get the same feelings as the nerves burn off and the performance starts, and as long is it keeps working the feelings stay there.. if it isn't working then the feelings tend to be pit of the stmach type feelings and thoughts appear in my head.. didn't clock that till now - that's one of the biggest things is that I stop thinking about whats going on.. only if theres a break in what I need to do will I think about what video or music is going to be played next and what I need.. I think more with video because of loading sets of clips etc. than with music.

With music, I would have said that some kind of heightened state of intuition existed, but again only in a couple of bands where we had all played together for 2-3 years regularly. Even then it was very much a case of knowing who was going to improvise for a bit, and then someone else playing off of that.. it's as much a case of looking at each other every 16 or 32 bars to decide who is going to go next as anything else..
with straight vjing, no I don't think so - put a clip on and you see if it's right or not, but no semi psychic powers imo.

[asterix]

I get in the 'zone'. Kinda like when I'm drawing. Thats when I like it most.
But live performance is a real thrill when you get that magic connection with the music. If it ain't there - it ain't vjing.

[vdmoKstaTi]

SteveG and Pilot X described it really well.. I can pretty much relate to that 100%.

How does it feel for you? Feels pretty good actually. Playing live that is. When you get your stuff to show up on different kinds of screens(depending on a gig) and tools of manipulation ready to make something on it with your content you prepared earlier + live video footage, programming, etc.

Is it a different 'state'? You definately get into a zone and connect to the whole place, but at the same time you are in your own zone also (if that makes sense)

Does your body feel different? It makes me want to dance if the music is good.. But I at least try to get into a groove.


Do you feel different as a person? Yeah, totally. The experience is pretty surreal most times. VJs would understand this, but some people need to be explained about environment you work in. Looking at tons of people in front and around you going off in this crazed environment of audio and video, you look around and ask yourself .. "Is this this really me who is doing this video stuff, yup it is me :)"

[Lara]

Sweeeeeet thanks for the cool replies. Anybody else?

[Rovastar]

Cool, thanks. But what does it feel like to be 'in the zone' of the performance?

I must say I have never really understood the whole "in the zone" thing. Do you get "in the zone" making a sandwich or driving a car?

Often if you are confident in your abilities than you always have a level of competence "zoning" is not needed.


Then again when you do "space bar" sets maybe you don't have to be. :)

[holly]

Not making a sandwitch, no. But occaisionally when driving a car very fast thru traffic has it's own unique "zone". It's not a spiritual mumbo-jumbo thing, and with training and practice it becomes less mysterious. It's a physical/head-space like sports. I can get tuned to the moment and use my gear as needed, making adjustments quickly without needing to analyze the environment. I consider this a skill that can be learned with consistant gear. When the tools become instinctive it is much easier to use them in a left-brain kind of way.

For me it involves how much control I have with my tools. Just launching some presets on rehearsed cues isn't likely to trigger a zone feeling, but when I can adjust something that is nearly there to be more there without really thinking about it analtically, then that is like having sports training where your body and instinct can be faster than your brain.

My analogy would be sports vs acting. In sports you train to be receptive and reactive so you can take new information quickly and respond physically in the moment. Acting is a different skill entirely, being able to consitantly hit your cues smoothly and with confidence despite distractions or mishaps.

[Lara]

I guess I am starting to think that 'liveness' is important because of the pure potentiality of creative collisions that take place in the process of 'making' live

The 'zone' feeling is something I have been hearing about in accounts but I didn't know if it was the same for everyone, so please also post if you have a different feeling like Rova's perspective.

[PilotX]

^what Holly said

and also, being "in the zone" isn't about competence, it's about being able to react instinctively what is going on rather than having to think first and react later..
with driving, at a very simple level, it's about being able to see a corner and slow/change gears without having to think "ok, heres's a corner, I need to brake down from 30 to 20 and change gears from 3rd to 2nd, which means i need to put the clutch down, move the gearstick back and left, and then bring the clutch back to the bite point and accelerate"
which one is quicker?
that's what being "in the zone" is about. It means that you are freed from the mechanical aspect of what you are doing and are able to play around with it.
doesn't apply so much to normal driving as vjing or playing music..
I find it better to think in terms of music, simply becusae playing an instrument I have more control over the output than vjing, so it's more obvious when I'm there.. there are probably 2 or 3 other people that I could play with, no music, just start andimprovise and it would work.. together we are "in the zone" - no need to form a plan, just get on and do it.. nothing mystical, just time spent together and a good day.

[Rovastar]

^what Holly said

and also, being "in the zone" isn't about competence, it's about being able to react instinctively what is going on rather than having to think first and react later..

I always get the impression of "in the zone" of taking it too another level where everything goes right and operates subconsciously.

Often competence and some instinct sounds like what you are talking about. For a VJ predicting when the next beat or breakdown will occur you don't have to be "in the zone" to do it.

[PilotX]

I think your first paragraph is spot on definition of being "in the zone" (have I said how much I hate that phrase, I don't think so)

yes people can predict drops, but do you have to think about it?
most of the time I (think I) get my visuals in time with drop ins/outs - but that's because I'm counting bars and making educated guesses.. If I was "in the zone" I wouldn't need to count bars, I'd just know/feel when they were coming and get it right every time. I am of course talking about songs you don't know rather than ones you do..

I have never done this vjing. I always, always count if I don't know the song. I have done this improvising in bands though.. it's not a case of needing to count the 32 bars someone else is improvising, I know from how they are playing when it is coming to an end, I am able to sense when they are going to change key..
none of this is mystical or psychic, it just comes down to practice, learning an individuals style and hearing it.. but when i'm "in the zone" I don't need to think aha! sounds like they are about to change key - I just hear it coming, and change accordingly..

[Liquidmetro]

My interpretation of 'in the zone' is when I am oblivious to anything else going on around me and am 100% absorbed with the visuals. For example I don't notice the random who has been stood beside me watching everything I was doing for the past 15mins.

Some may find that they consciously count others may not. I find I do both, but don't make a conscious choice to do either - there's no time!(if that makes sense). I guess that each individual adopts the the most reliable method of vid-beat syncing for themselves, be it consciously or subconsciously.

Even if you know the tune, you may not know what the DJ is going to do and you have to be a split second ahead and guess. Having a natural ear for music is probably a prerequisite for VJing?? The ability to anticipate and react on cue is what it's all about.

I can't get enough of that feeling when you trigger that loop you've been saving all night bang on the drop of the beat!

1, 2, 3, 4...CUT! :up:

[Rovastar]

I think your first paragraph is spot on definition of being "in the zone" (have I said how much I hate that phrase, I don't think so)

yes people can predict drops, but do you have to think about it?
most of the time I (think I) get my visuals in time with drop ins/outs - but that's because I'm counting bars and making educated guesses.. If I was "in the zone" I wouldn't need to count bars, I'd just know/feel when they were coming and get it right every time. I am of course talking about songs you don't know rather than ones you do..

I have never done this vjing. I always, always count if I don't know the song. I have done this improvising in bands though.. it's not a case of needing to count the 32 bars someone else is improvising, I know from how they are playing when it is coming to an end, I am able to sense when they are going to change key..
none of this is mystical or psychic, it just comes down to practice, learning an individuals style and hearing it.. but when i'm "in the zone" I don't need to think aha! sounds like they are about to change key - I just hear it coming, and change accordingly..

Wow you really count all the time. I must say I never count the bars and have never tried too. When it come to DJing I haven't got a clue, wanted to learn but couldn't get my head around it but listening/dancing/Vjing to music I have no problem.

Maybe I have a natural state of rhythm or maybe years of listening/analysing music it comes more naturally or something for it and think I can do a good a job as anyone at predicting what happens next.

PS I hate the phrase too maybe that is why I am so against it. ;)

[vjpixylight]

although I rarely dose these days while VJing, I must say that zone of heighten visual perspective can really get me going. It maybe is an artificial zone, but when your mind, eyes, and thought are glued to the screen with your own visual mixing, it can be, well to say the least, exillerating...

[vdmoKstaTi]

^ What Holy said :)

I do experience "The Zone" regularly, but not every time. I think important factors in this is your comfort level and how much you enjoy the music ( I had times, when I couldn't wait for it to be over) as its essential for you to appreciate what you working with and as that happens you can just run into this hole as Alice in Wonderland trying to chase the rabbit :)

Good indication of a "Zone" is when you start your set, blink and its time to go home. When you looking at the clock every 30 minutes, "Are we there yet, are we there yet", thats not your Zone :)

Analogy with sport and acting is brilliant.. Holly, - terrific example!

I think VJ encoumpases both @ parts... Realistically we are trained for the unexpected, its like acting with a twist of improvisation(This of Drew Carey show,- Who's line is it anyway). Your sport analogy might come in through your production and preparation before each show with some level of practice with your bedroom sets, etc.

Im out...

[PilotX]

Wow you really count all the time. I must say I never count the bars and have never tried too.
Maybe I have a natural state of rhythm or maybe years of listening/analysing music it comes more naturally or something for it and think I can do a good a job as anyone at predicting what happens next.

but you use reactive software so you don't have the same need.. I want to be as sure as possible that when the music drops out or kicks in, the visuals are moving at the same time.. sometimes I get it embarrasingly wrong, but since most music sticks to 16/32 bar sequences it tends to be alright..
I stop counting if someone talks to me and have to start again, and I won't count if I'm not enjoying it, but I try not to do nights where I won't enjoy the music.. otherwise it's part of the job really.. if I'm thinking about what clips to use then I'll often loose it, but since I have to start again each song it doesn't really matter..
I don't think it's really that difficult to find yourself hitting these instinctively simply becuase most music is very formulaic when it comes down to the very basic structure, and i'd probably hit the breaks right 80 or 90% of the time but I want to be getting 95% to 99%..

[vj_jasper]

the zone feeling....It's sort of a bubble that comes over you when you see the performance is really hitting. I kinda get a spine meets occipidal lobe brain tingle and a little rush. As long as you can keep it flowing with the next content and build on it, you can keep the rush feeling.

I certainly know when I've fallen out of it and am struggling for a thread to rebuild.
i know that zone feeling. for me, it is like the energy of the event, the party people, the visuals, the music, builds like a wave, and i can feel it rising up and up. unexpected sync-ups of random visuals and audio cues seem magical and serve to enhance the feeling, so i like to work in the known and unknown zones - stepping up to the boundaries, and stepping past the mark sometimes.

it is almost sheer hubris - fantastical pride - to presume that feeling is going to happen each performance, but i would like to think it can. the states of euphoria that we now know, are destined to evolve in subtlety and productivity as we as a species develop.

[Rovastar]

but you use reactive software so you don't have the same need.. I want to be as sure as possible that when the music drops out or kicks in, the visuals are moving at the same time.. sometimes I get it embarrasingly wrong, but since most music sticks to 16/32 bar sequences it tends to be alright..
I stop counting if someone talks to me and have to start again, and I won't count if I'm not enjoying it, but I try not to do nights where I won't enjoy the music.. otherwise it's part of the job really.. if I'm thinking about what clips to use then I'll often loose it, but since I have to start again each song it doesn't really matter..
I don't think it's really that difficult to find yourself hitting these instinctively simply becuase most music is very formulaic when it comes down to the very basic structure, and i'd probably hit the breaks right 80 or 90% of the time but I want to be getting 95% to 99%..

I still don't really get the whole thing. True I use the software I use doesn't make it as important to get the timing as a clip based VJ however I still have got the timing and can use them when needed.

[RayV]

in the zone for me? feels like surfing.
once you caught a good wave & you now ride it smoothly
you get into a flow in which everything you do seems right [to you]
it happened to me while playing music & while vjing,
but not each & every time & I don?t chase it.
I know its there when the music tickles me.

a zone, I feel, is part from having control over your kit & database
as Holly said
which makes u free to fly = intuitive illustrate, try out new things, dare to do explore & feel confident
as u are on, riding that wave.
its quite addictive while u get there, u wanna get there again.

I can share another aspect...
about exposure.
When I started to vj 7 years ago, I went right into it.
so much to an extent I hadn't a minute to think I will be on stage & what's in it for me.
do I like that?
I was never before looking for stage, & oops. Here I am in front of very many ppl,
they, even looking at me. Scary shit..
the tension was really high for me - reaching that control mentioned above combined with performance.
Sorting tech probs. it didn?t have that flow right away.
but I did enjoy what I was doing,
wasn?t sure about the stage performance that much.
it took a while. I had some strange physical reactions.
couldn't & sometime still can't can't eat a whole day before gig
& the main part was feeling very very down a day after a gig without any real relation to how that gig went.
Possibly a tension come down. Something to do with adrenalin release I guess.
I almost did not understand why I bother as the down was quite strong at first.
I can see in photos till today that I?m being so concentrated in what I do, that I look a bit too serious... to me, anyway. But when the music does "tickles" me.. I have that huge smile, lucky I got ears to stop it.
That down symptoms went mild.[took it bloody while], & I?m glad It didn?t stop me.



so...

did somone else felt that "down" after a gig?

[RickRobiN]

once you caught a good wave & you now ride it smoothly

:up: tsunami vj ride yesterday with Ellen Allien. It's hard to come down on you feet again after a intens gig. It's not feeling down, more empty but satisfied.


cheers RR

[werlin]

a good feeling? perhaps when i know i beat sync-ed right in time for the break times, and i know that everybody went "wow" (or almost everybody, i dont consider myself that good) especially when i'm not looking to the audience, but you hear the public's stomps not going to right to the beat as you normaly would (almost like sjg707 discrived with the dj missing something)

another good feeling? when the dj messes up and i can clean it, by beat-synckin his mistake so it is less notable to the crowd...

a bad feeling? the winxp logo, i prefer a blue screen anytime

another bad feeling? being endless hours on stage vjing alone, brainwashing yourself with 75973485frames of your own content

[bridd]

so...

did somone else felt that "down" after a gig?

Yeah; I wind up going back into my day-job and double-hating it because I've been doing something I enjoy a lot more, though, thinking it through, what you've said about the tension-comedown thing rings bells as well.

[chumpnunkey]

"Ok for my essay I am exploring a little bit the experience of performing 'live'

How does it feel for you? Is it a different 'state'? Does your body feel different? Do you feel different as a person?

What makes a good feeling while performing? What makes a bad one?"

Bad feeling first: feeling lonely, missing easy cues, getting nervous and not being able to get on top of it. When I treat it like something I've got to get done.

Good feeling: When I just enjoy what is happening.

Performing live has been, until recently, my intellect trying to keep up with the music and always being a little behind. I have had troubles finding an interface which I can translate into synched visuals. I have recently refined my hardware/software combination to the point where I am beginning to get a live feeling again (when I first started and used other people's clips and software it was pretty instinctive without worry, like beginners 'luck'). When I stop thinking about it only intellectually and feel the music. Cos I can dance alright and I rarely miss time a break or change when dancing, but with visuals I wasn't quite there. Getting better with practice tho. It also seems to come more when I am not trying to perform set in order but when I'm experimenting, though sometimes that loses a feeling of good set-length structural possibilities. I think maybe my intellect leads with my visuals and practice refines it to the point where it's intuitive. I don't think I've ever been content to just groove all the time like I am with dancing, the little illusive part of me that's good at Vjing live is not good at reconfiguring visual jockey.

The ideal state I guess is something like some folk have been talking about, in the zone, when the distinction between me as an individual and the rest of the world ceases to be important and the music and visuals and atmosphere are all flowing. It's hard to put into words. Satori?

A good performance is a physical one for me because I love to dance to music I love so Vjing is like translating what I would be doing with my body into my arms and fingers to play with an interface device (though gonna try to get a wiimote up and running so maybe I'll be able to just wave me arms about :D).

Good luck with the essay, would be interested to read it!

[fata alex]

i completely see where both pilot x and rovastar are coming from because i find i can follow music intuitively almost perfectly most of the time, but as soon as i start to try and count beats and bars then i lose it, or put too much brain power into counting and mess up what i was counting for. ive noticed this most in trying recently to learn how to dj with programs like ableton and mixvibes, if i dont think about it, i can feel the tempo of a song, but as soon as i start to think about it in numbers then i lose the rhythm. im starting to get better at it the more i practice, but maybe thats why tom finds it easier than me and rova, you've got a musicians background... in vjing however, i find it much harder to marry my intuition with button pushing on a laptop than with more tangible interactive equipment such as the projectors we usually play on, although that might be me still getting used to the latency...

[Lara]

Helloo

Well deadlines finished, here's the first draft of my paper. I have XXX-ed out everyone's names who contributed for the purposes of anonymity for the forum release. In the real version everyone is credited properly for the things they say.

I have used some material from the forums here, assuming that that's ok as the material has been publicly available for a long time. If that's not okay or there are any other problems PM me and I will take the paper down.

So, as a side note the paper is not about VJing as much as about experiences of doing cultural research, so please don't slate the academic language as this was for my uni homework, and I wouldn't have got a very good mark without it! I am in no way saying that this is the best or only way to think or speak about VJing.

Enjoy! Feedback always welcome ;)