Getting Screwed By A Promoter

[WordVirus23]

backstory:
promoter has bad reputation. I deceided to use a contract (the 1st time I've ever used one, usually work on a handshake over a beer/bowl) so the promoter is employed by said club, but I'm paid by the promoter (in check, from a "his-name productions.inc)

the club:
its the newest club in town, catering to upper crust party people w/ lots of $. two story, 2nd story being rentable for $1000/4 hrs (rents regularly) has 44" plasma screen. 2 smaller plasmas downstairs w/ a big screen tv (and for the past 2 weeks, 2 LCD projectors on thurs & fri) very nice resturaunt/bar

when Problems start:
almost immediately.... he obviously didn't read the contract other than to scrutinize the equipment list. or he read it and doesn't care. he was "unaware" of the 50% deposit that would be due 1 week after the 1st performance (I thought that fair, 2 shows/week[thrus&fri's]) so I'm a nice guy, I think hey, maybe he's illiterate (these things still happen?!? sad) so we agree that he's got an extra week to come up with the deposit. well... that was this past thurs/fri....

What transpired:
I meet him at the club the day after my shows (I'm supposed to be paid upfront be4 each gig... I thought that was asking a bit much.....usually get paid middle/end of night) to pick up my check. So I'm standing next to him as he's writing the check, and he asks "so how long do I have until that deposit is due?"
ME: it's due today man
HIM: nu-uh... you said I could have an extra week
ME: well yeah... a week ago
HIM: nono... you said I had an extra week from what the contract said
ME: the contract says one week after the 1st show
HIM: and you said I had an extra week...
ME: ...its been two weeks
HIM: well I don't have it, you'll have to wait until next friday... I only get paid every two weeks
(in retrospect, this means that he got paid the weekend of my 1st show and could have paid me then)
ME: how about you write me a check before I set up thursday
HIM: <blahblahblah> I'm just trying to be a good business man... blahblahblah, isn't the relationship important? blahblah...
ME: <takes normal check for shows without deposit money>

What I'm Afraid Of:
this is going to continue, and there isn't going to be a check waiting for me on thursday when I get there, that's the feeling I got. he's going to shine on the deposit indefinitely, it's a two month contract BTW.

comments, suggestions, questions.... please

James Stapleton
Pilot/Director
NoInput:Visual Product

[vjrei]

"HIM: <blahblahblah> I'm just trying to be a good business man... blahblahblah, isn't the relationship important? blahblah... "

Correct response:

"No!, the money is important, this relationship is based on the money we are talking about, so pay right now."


There is a comon problem here:

1. He/she obviously is the kind of person who likes to fool around with people and you are not hes first one.

As I had the same situation I Venezuela (dicks are very where) I would show up next thursday with my equipment and I will not install it until he pay the entire bill. And call hime the day before telling him to "remember" to cancel the entire bill by tomorrow.

If he gets funny again you just tell him: "policy of the company". An I recomend you to be prepared to leave in a very diplomatic way. You can apologise first with the club owner (Mr. I have to leave because my contract have been violated, sorry for the inconvenience, thank you very much). An the promoter is gonna follow you.

The promoter may pay you at the begainig of the day and for sure at the end of the night he is gonna tell you he doesn't have any more money, so, here we go again.

Just do not tell him/her what are you plan to do, just put him in the best ocuard (my english is not that good) situation he can be with the club.

The promoters are not the wiser people in the town. The y are gonna use the usable people.

2. If you are the kind of person who is slow to think and react in those circunstances, I'm one too. The only way to get around that is to prepare scenaries in your head of the reaction he could take and be very, very, brief in your actions, no money, no service, period! no expalnations. And always the best way is to be very polite, always. It is not unusual that he end up being the best promoter of the world after that.

In other words: get integrity.

He know that if he violed the contract you whon't hire a lower to suit him, but you can work around his personal image with the club owner "... this promoter is putting me in to troubles" or things like that.

If he doesn't have the money to cancel the contract deposit so: why he signed it? tell hime that in his face on first place and use that argument over and over. It is your turn to be a dick now.

My 2cents.

[WordVirus23]

at $7 USD each... for no-name local DJs

[PilotX]

Originally posted by vjrei
[BHe know that if he violed the contract you whon't hire a lower to suit him, [/B]

In th UK, you can chase people through small claims court for amounts less than ?1000 (I think), and it is meant to be relatively simple to do it. If you win then they pay court costs. I don't think you even need lawyers to do it, although I've not had to do so myself.

I'm not suggesting you threaten court action, I think follow vjrei's advice first off. I also don't know if something similar to the small calims court exists in the US.

The only other advice I'd have is to go through the contract with the promotor before they sign, and point out the clauses relating to what they need to do. It won't stop someone who wants to use you from doing so, but will eliminate genuine mistakes.

At least you got a signed contract though, and if he doesn't come through with the deposit you can get the money back. Also, he's paid you for the shows, so it might be worth hanging on until the end of the contract and seeing if he pays up before moving to court action - is the deposit returned at the end of the contract?

Nasty situation really. Hope it works out for you.

Tom
syzygy visuals

[unjulation]

just a quick note on the small claims court in the uk it is very esey to do but it can drag on for years if the person dosnt pay up it can go back and forth through the courts and balifs for a good year or two so be aware of that

[Primebase3]

stand your ground!!! don't let some promotor fuck you over , he's got the money and the wits to get a club full with people and dj's so 9 out 10 he's a good man in seeing weaknesses

go to him and demand and threat , spread the word in your town that' he's not living up you'd be amazed of the saving face factor!!

and this is for everyone : agreed is agreed is agreed !! get the cash you was promised!!! grrrrrrrr :)

[robotfunk]

Dodgy people have a way of letting you know early on about their nature. Don't ever ignore your instincts on this. Be stricter than with your dog on such people, him missing the deposit is reason enough for you to demand 100% upfront. Tell him if he fails to pay you beforehand he will suffer legal consequences and be blacklisted amongst your peers. It sounds like this character has already lost confidence from a lot of people so he should fear you on this. You on the other hand have not much to lose, so have him pay or suffer.

[LEVLHED]

just do us all a favor and have him lynched....(that is a joke of course)
so cliche, eh? a dodgey promoter strikes again....sheese.

I'd totally threaten with legal action, if he doesn't learn to respect a signed contract there is no hope. The "I didn't see that part" is total bullshit, and not really your problem...a signed contract is a signed contract.

And what is his name? You should tell us this!

[unjulation]

it seems to me that no mater how big the night is and how much mony the promoter makes they will allways try to screw a little more mony out of us, cut corners, etc etc.
and as we are genuraly seen as expederbal we seem to be the ones that get it in the neck/wallet that alllong with the decor guys-i know i trying to get enough mony for spending 2 weeks painting a backdrop was one of the reasons for moveing into v.j.'ing that and i got bord with still images.

[WordVirus23]

I wanted to thank everyone for their time in posting a reply, I will let people know this person's identity after I've settled this matter. Hopefully I don't have to stage a sit-in protest Thursday night.

<hauls 500 lbs of stuff onto dance floor>
<sits on top of it and smiles>

..james...
N:VP

[WordVirus23]

No, the deposit is 50% of the total contract for 16 shows.

Originally posted by PilotX


- is the deposit returned at the end of the contract?

[WordVirus23]

after an aggitated meeting with the promoter today, I've been paid my back money, and we've agreed upon payment @ the end of the nights w/ no deposit. This guy has been a genuine pain in the ass. His name is Phil Beneviedez (aka Phunky Phil One) he throws hip hop shows in and around Fresno, California. I would HIGHLY reccomend watching your ass and demanding $ up front if anyone has dealings with him. His two clubs are the VIP/Jungle and NorthPointe Bar & Grill, also w/ an occassional show at a place called Tornino's (banquet hall).

<kisses his Edirol V4 goodbye>

[WordVirus23]

yet again this promoter thinks he's going to pull a fast one on me... so here I go, dropping this letter off to his boss tomorrow hopefully, will get $ outta that damn club yet! and if not, then its off to small claims court... anyone know what the MOST you can sue for in small claims court in the US is? would love comments on the letter... proofreading?!? :) here's the letter:

I, James Stapleton (NoInput:Visual Product) on the 8th of March, 2003 hold The Jungle (Club VIP) in breach of contract, signed Feb. 4, 2003 by the authorized agent of The Jungle (Club VIP), Phil Benavidez.

After making many attempts to work out a payment schedule with Mr. Benavidez, and after repeated extensions on agreed upon dates for payment due, Mr Benavidez has once again proceeded to not pay for services rendered, and contracted for.

I show an outstanding balance on the contract of $900.00 due and payable upon receipt of this letter. I show received payments totaling $700.00, consisting of:

$100.00 - for Feb 6 & 7
$100.00 - for Feb 13 & 14
$100.00 - for Feb 20 & 21
$200.00 - towards deposit
$100.00 - for Feb 27
$100.00 - for Feb 28
-------
$700.00 - Payments Received
-------
$1600.00 - Contract Total
-------
$900.00 - Total Now Due

I must note that the $200.00 payment towards the deposit (recv'd 2-26-03) was in the form of a check, from Phil Benavidez Entertainment, Inc., which when taken to the bank (ON 2-26-03) the account is drawn on, I was informed the check was non-negotiable, and that was all that could be told to me by bank staff. I am still in posession of said check. Mr. Benavidez paid me $200.00 in cash the following evening to cover the fraudulent check.

I will take a cash or a verifiable check from the Jungle/Club VIP corporate account, in the amount of $900.00. I am willing to fulfill my contract obligations to the club, but find myself unable to work out a solution with Mr. Benavidez and cannot accept checks from Phil Benavidez Entertainment, Inc.

Please refer to articles #1, #7 and #13 of the contract if you have any questions. I hope that we are able to settle this matter quickly and return to business as usual, before further breaches occur.

[vjTranceKoder]

Just wanted you to know that the letter above is very professional and to the point. If the owner of the club does NOT react to that statement by paying on the spot or by that same day, court seems to be your only option (unless an act of God should occur, of course). Tough break WV23:(

To think that this happens everyday all around the world is enough to spurn the thought of starting a firm specifically geared towards such disputes. How about VJC (VeeJayCourt):rolleyes:

Another option is to simply have a lawyer (maybe a friend of a friend?) prepare a "notification" letter (notifying, in essence, that if you don't pay, you'll be sued, period). That has worked for me in the past. My friends mother prepared a letter with 'official' letterhead of the firm to which she was affiliated. You should have seen how reluctant the payee became when the letter was delivered. He was forced by a sense of fear (no doubt brought on by his deep seated guilt) to pay up. He even cussed me as he wrote the check. Well, I got my money, never had to see that ass again, and he was still fuming when I left. (keep in mind I was 18 at the time and this man was in his 50's!-it's like 'sorry old man, can't take advantage of this youngster', and this was regular practice for him)


...I remember the first business lesson I received from my uncle (who is self made). I sold him a product, handed it to him and proceeded to ask for the money due. He simply walked out of the room and I spent the next 30 minutes trying to get my money. Moral of the story? "Get the money first!":mad: (I mean it dammit!) but yeah, have to agree with vjrei, keep it polite but FIRM. That is professionalism. That is business.

Let us know how things turn out....

[karmavideo]

you might consider making this POS promoter a new demo tape...one with a remix of famous judges, lawyers, etc. (a remix of Judge Judy, Judge Wapner, etc.)

Ha! that might help get his attention!

Good luck

[vjrei]

We should add a "black list" secction in thsi site for cases like this. It would be ver disuasive for promoters and other people related with the business.

I know even Disney has a black list too.

As a VJ and member of this community we should take the first stpes in the industry before we found 300.000 VJs around the world as DJs are, and industry without regulations and without proffits.

I'm glad I'm part of a growing industry that require so much artistic and technical talent.

A black list with people name and real cases like this would be good for others that may like to take chances with our business.

[PilotX]

I think that your letter reads well, the only thing you want to make sure you do is to have proof that the club recieved the letter, using recorded delivery and possibly sending a second letter for him to sign, date and return.

If possible I would run it past the eyes of a lawyer first; I'm not sure whether you should be claiming breach of contract at this point (although it clearly is) or just saying to the club - this is what has happened, if you cannot help me I will start moves to claiming breach of contract in the courts. I really don't know on this point, I don't think it would matter particularly in the UK, as small claims tends to be about reasonable actions rather then legal technicalities, but it might be worth checking if possible.

I don't know how the us system works, but in the uk you will need to send another letter if this does not get sorted out saying you will start proceedings in X days if payment is not recieved (I was told that 14 days was usual in the UK). (you might want to put a time limit on this first letter for reply/action. Not sure)

On the blacklist point, I think it sounds like a useful idea; I think it should also have a 'whitelist' for good promotors. Also, we'll need to make sure that if a promotor changes their ways we can note this or remove them.

Hope it works out for you Wordvirus

Tom
syzygy visuals

[charlielangridge]

If we are going to do a blacklist we have to be very very careful. Public blacklists are the sorta things that upset peope and can cause nasty court cases very quickly.

[Lara]

Hee hee hee, I loved this-

Quote by vjrei:

<<The promoters are not the wiser people in the town>>

This should be up there as a vj mantra. Confucian wisdom from vjrei is much respected . . .

[WordVirus23]

I spoke with a lawyer friend, and in the US, the part about if the promoter breaks the contract, the full sum of the contract is due without having to perform the show(s) is not legal and will be thrown out, as its a "Punishment" clause er something to that effect... something about having to pay for services that haven't been rendered... sounds like BS to me... a signed contract is a signed contract, but according to the lawyer, it is invalid and not legal in the US court system... I'm going to have to take this to small claims court I'm pretty sure... will keep y'all updated. and thanks for the replies... yes, a black/white list would be good... there ARE some wonderful promoters that I work with... as always there are bad apples tho.

..james...
NoInput:Visual Product