Big projection onto building...

[syzygy]

We need to do a BIG projection of a logo onto the side of building.

The logo only needs to be in white so my immediate thoughts about doing this are to get a gobo made and hire a big projector to project the gobo image.

We need something that will let us project a big projection pretty bright but won't need too much power (we need to run it from a generator) and won't cost too much to hire.

Any suggestions for a good unit?

Cheers,

Dan.

[LEVLHED]

just use a slide projector!

[syzygy]

How big will a standard slide projector go before it's not bright enough to make a real impact against ambient street light?

Would a Kodak Carousell enable us to produce a logo 10 -15 meters tall?

Dan.

[LEVLHED]

even the cheaper slide projectors are insanely bright compared to video projectors...I think you will have no problem, but hopefully someone more familiar w/ slide beamers can confirm this...

[syzygy]

It would be really good if a standard slide projector will do the trick - we bought our first two slide projectors this week as we are planning to diversify to stills as well as video. :)

Dan.

[murph]

I think most par-can lights are even brighter than slide projectors, and if it only has to be one color, a gobo could be made of construction paper! Maybe $20 rental fee in most places?

[VjDeranged]

I guess this reply dont fit in here as an answer...considering you mentiond that price is a factor.. but for future reference, the ultimate would be a slide projector from PANI...
...and when your ready for it.. hire thier "e-slide" adaptor.. that baby is a marvel..its a full color lcd panel that will take yr vj soft vga output and blow it up building size!! :D

(www.pani.com)

[DNXR]

I would dev go for a slide-projector, you would be amazed by the brightness and you can focus them much better then a gobo (construction paper ???).

When it has to be a cheap solution and you own a kodak, I would use it, there is a very wide range of (quality) lenses available, from 28 to 250 mm, prolly even more, so if the lens you've got isn't good enough you can certainly hire another one.
I would try to avoid the zoom-lenses, though very tempting the are mostly of a lesser quality (brightness/fading edges).

When it comes to hiring a kodak : it's possible to get special 'booster' units on these projectors (bigger lamps =more output) and there are also bigger modified models on the market.
There are a lot more big projectors (with different slide-formats), wouldn't be to hard to hire one.

Another cheap solution when you have no distance to project from, try an overhead-projector (yeah, you heard it right !!!) amazing bright on short distance, very easy to make sheets (with a b/w copier/printer) and you find them everywhere.

The projection-distance is another very important issue, the best thing to do is to give it a try (in advance) on the location or when that's impossible on a similar kinda spot. When even that's impossible try to estimate the measures to know what you are talking about when contacting a rental-company (it's possible to formulate the best lenght of lenses).

Pity you are based in the UK, would love to help you out (we have all the things mentioned above lying around in our workshop).



__________
bart

[DNXR]

Originally posted by syzygy
It would be really good if a standard slide projector will do the trick - we bought our first two slide projectors this week as we are planning to diversify to stills as well as video. :)
Do these projectors have the same lenses ?
If that's a yess, try to cut-up the logo in two halfs (when it's plain text it wouldn't be to hard). It takes two projection positions or (expensive) shift-lenses but : 2 projectors = 2 lamps = brighter image.

... we bought our first two slide projectors this week as we are planning to diversify to stills as well as video ...
very funny ... we are just incorporating (read blending) more computer/video-stuff in our things ... to be more flexible ...

[Welcome back in the 'ancient' world :D ]


________
bart

[ristuuk]

A standard Kodak slide projector wont do the job ,ambient light will kill the image. if you want to use 35mm slides then use either a zenon arc kodak (big picture and brightness) or try for a optikinetics 500 with a slide attachment.

Better alternative for a single image is down the gobo path.

money not too tight then yep, Pani Or Pigi .

[DNXR]

... If ambient light is killing your image, kill the ambient light ...

[2Bit]

Ristuuks right

A 35mm projector on its own won't create a bright 10-15m image competing against ambient light (saying that we use kodak 2050s & Elmo 252/3's - modern equivalents might be that much brighter ?). There are hokushikon (?) xenon boosters that increase the brightness but are hard to come by. We've been trying for ages to find some to no avail.


We project onto a bulding the other side of the road (about 10m from projectors) & theres lots of ambient light & theres no way we can get a bright 10m image. & thats projecting on to a white building from not v far away.

As dnxr says - kill the competition.

A solar 500 has the power to project that distance & create an image that size & gobos can be quite easily made (don't go to optikenitics tho' 'cos they cost the earth).

Pigi projectors are the dons at this sort of thing but the ones we've used, used 70mm film, were housed in shipping containers & cost a fortune to hire. Defintely not on a small budget..........

[DNXR]

Besides the technics (wishlist?) the quality of the slide is a very important issue too, it sounds simple (perfect transparrent= white, perfect black=...) but it is important.

HighTech/HighCosts: The pani's & pigi's are the best...
LowTech/LowCosts: Use what youve got = improvise = Trail @ Errror

When a projector (kodak) doesn't seem to bridge 10m, it's crap... check the lamp, dimmer-switch, sideplug, clean optics or trow it away.

10m is nothing except in f@#$%king daylight, yeahh we're all still searching for that daylight-projector.


________
bart

[DNXR]

sorry 'bout that. I get carried away sometimes.


standard Kodak (modified streetlamp: blacked out a bit) :

[tried to put an image here..... but failed]

[ristuuk]

Dan,
As an alternative, price out Mac 250/500 with gobo. these are pretty much an industry standard nowadays and would be cheeper/easier to source than the others.
there is a company London based which has the kodak xenons but for the life of me I cannot remember their name.

[DNXR]

standard Kodak (modified streetlamp: blacked out a bit) :

[DNXR]

kodak with booster:

[DNXR]

Projectors filled with not so bright repro's (photo's from prints from scans) to give you a general idea of the possibilities of 'standard' slide-projectors especially when you've got true black/white images.


eiki xenon projector (crapy photo, too early):

[2Bit]

nice frames..........

Where are you projecting from? Can't see the proj/throw distance anywhere........

Do you rig the frames or are they city/town installations?

Our projs are all fine thanks:-
With the 10m throw, we're up against a lot of ambient light - 3 street lamps, 2 bright white jobs, the other an orange standard uk lamp on a busy crossroad..

The projections look good, don't get us wrong, but they're not 10m tall.

[ristuuk]

300ft high!

[dronkie]

check out what these guys do with slide projectors (although i must add that it are 5000-10000 watt projectors... stillcheaper than hiring one of those big motherfucking barco 18k's)
I have worked with them several times, and boy, they kick ass... never knew slides could be that big. I mean like ... you know like ... REALLY big !!!

Dronkie

http://www.adcprod.be/

[DNXR]

thnx

On two sites we projected from the opposite side of the streets, from inside a shop (15m) and from inside an office-building (25m). On the third spot we adjusted a projector and casing inside the tall statue/commercial thing in the middle of the square (35m).

Yes, we designed, made, constucted and rigged the frames ourselves (the last with help of a billboard-firm, my day-time job) we even went to all the paperwork (increddible, never again).
We made them in two sizes (2x screen about 4,5m, 1x screen about 7m, without the frames).

It was for a real big exhibition of old paintings (like Rembrandt and so) in our town, the projectors were filled with slides of the showed paintings and constantly changing, the frames were up for about 1 month (during the winter). We also made 2 smaller displays with real frames (antique) inside some counsel-buildings.


Our projs are all fine thanks:-
With the 10m throw, we're up against a lot of ambient light - 3 street lamps, 2 bright white jobs, the other an orange standard uk lamp on a busy crossroad..

maybe are some color filters an option ;)

The projections look good, don't get us wrong, but they're not 10m tall.
you should find some shorter lenses, like 35mm (sorry...I don not have the projection/distance/lenslength formula with me at the moment).


__________
bart

[ristuuk]

screen width= projection distance x 35 / focal length of lens

proj dist =foc length x screen width / 35

focal = proj dist x 35 / screen width

[DNXR]

That's what I ment ristuuk were is 35, a 35mm slide, right ?

Nice picture ristuuk, that's what I ment with a real black/white picture, is it a gobo ? or some of the big xenon machines ?


________
bart

[2Bit]

D'oh

Its not 10m at all, after scratching my head & trying to work out why indeed the image isn't brighter, went out the door to actually look @ the distance & its more like 20-25m.

Not sure how I guestimated/remembered so badly......

We've got lenses going from 35mm up to 253mm & the distance vs brightness payoff doesn't allow us to get suffuciently bright 10m tall images........

One thing we are lacking in though are timers - anyone got a quick n easy kit/schematic/source/plan etc

'the last with help of a billboard-firm, my day-time job'

V handy & right good they look too

[DNXR]

Originally posted by 2Bit
....Its not 10m at all, after scratching my head & trying to work out why indeed the image isn't brighter, went out the door to actually look @ the distance & its more like 20-25m...We've got lenses going from 35mm up to 253mm & the distance vs brightness payoff doesn't allow us to get suffuciently bright 10m tall images............
Hehehe...(a recognising smile)
Well it seems you'll have to find a bigger projector then... as some mentioned earlier in the thread....

....One thing we are lacking in though are timers - anyone got a quick n easy kit/schematic/source/plan etc....
...will look into some drawers (we had some made long time ago, but they only had a short interval), but promising nothing tho...


_________
bart

[ristuuk]

done with two Pigi's scrolling messages.Massive throw, massive image. We could actually hit the other crane behind the first one which was some serious distance away.

[ristuuk]

There's two 35mm on ebay uk at the moment , on a xenon and one a booster worth checking out.