time at the workface

[deepvisual]

a) most VJs play all night - 5-12 hours

b) most DJs play a set - 2-3 hours.

are DVJ / AV changes affecting the status quo??

are VJs working less now or are DJs working harder ( haha dream on)
maybe it hasn't happened to any great extent yet, but maybe this dynamic could change things in the long run???

[SteveG]

I think all DJ's are working less these days except the lucky few. I think this could be a good thing as fees are begining to drop and in turn we may see more oportunities for VJ's as there will be more nights and a little more cash available hopefully. DJ's and their agents I would say are definitely having to work harder, think of new angles, new music and visuals dare I say. Also over the last few months I've seen more nigts advertising less DJ's on the billing but some of those DJ's doing longer sets 3-6 hours some of them....again, not a bad thing as for some time the clubbers have been saying also that events crammed with DJ's quite often end up as pretty poor nights with no continuity in the music build up.

I can only comment on my own personal circumstances and say my own work has increased over the last year with regards to VJ'ing and visuals production and various projects. I'd say work is allready increasing for some VJ's getting involved in DJ/DVJ visuals projects, I'm involved with 2 at the momment.

My own DVJ'ing hasn't made it to the clubs and may never as I'm a late starter with the music side and really have only extensively used the DVJ's for corporate gigs. I dont see the DVJ as being a bad thing for VJ's as many promoters may now consider bringing in a VJ just to oversee the visuals side should he book a DJ for a DVJ set and to have visual continuity for the event. Not to mention the fact they then need V4's, compatible audio mixers, cabling etc.

I think over the coming year as in Russia there may be more corporate involvement with more advertising and branding going on...again hopefully giving us all more work. This in itself will bring more money into the scene.

I think anything that's increasing the use visuals will be a good thing for VJ's willing to diversify.

Here endeth my 2 peneth worth :Smoking:

[jimmyogenic]

a) most VJs play all night - 5-12 hours


i very rarely play a set longer than 2.5 hrs

must be over a year since i played anything longer than 4 hours.. i get bored tbh and go off the boil. 2-3hrs means i can chuck all my good stuff up in a short period time and keep it fresh.

[vj_jasper]

good call, diversification... things like the involvement of VJ's with DVJ projects, or an AV mix set by a VJ with visuals and audio to match...

the question is whether that audio is original, or mixing other people's, or a combination of both. 'the white stripes' did a live recording, they did covers of other ppl's tracks aswell as their own songs.

could be the same with an original electronic set - mixing in other grooves as it seems appropriate.
whether the visual-audio is delivered with 2 DVJ decks and a V4, or Macbooks, a CodaNova, and a V4, there is still going to be an audio mixing side of things. in fat the audio may be the most important thing. how to present it? who knows... viva la difference`, bring on the diversification. could be a way of an expanded art expression, and also allows charging more.

[vj_jasper]

jimmyogenic - does the promoter then need to be assured that they do not need visuals the entire evening? how do you choose your time to play - when your fave dj is playing? 2.5 hours, that sounds gr8. i usually mix from 5-7 hour at a gig, or 3.5 if another vj is there.

[asterix]

getting Sticker Made Up:

vj's Go Harder - Longer

[jimmyogenic]

jimmyogenic - does the promoter then need to be assured that they do not need visuals the entire evening? how do you choose your time to play - when your fave dj is playing? 2.5 hours, that sounds gr8. i usually mix from 5-7 hour at a gig, or 3.5 if another vj is there.

nope, i play as part of a vj line-up!

normally at an absolute minimum of 2 for low key nights, and up to 8 if its the full on club with multipule rooms...

no vj can be on the nail for more than 3 hours, keeping it fresh, not reshowing clips again and again...


I do loads of work associated with the big chill, and the standard set length that they expect you to play is max of 3 hours, but normally its 2. it also means that you can do your set, then go and enjoy yourself and party as the dj's would! much more enjoyable all round :)

[SteveG]

Your in Luxury land jimmyogenic :).....most of us I'd say are forced to play the entire event....and keep it fresh if you want to keep your bookings;) It's just much harder work than your used too :biggrin:

[devonmiles]

the last three month I have played a lot of parties where there where only two djs. one newbie who did the opening from ten to twelve and the main act playing up from twelve all the night. these are medium sized events with +- 1000 punters, pretty tight budget and we get pretty much the same payment.
its like being employed in a small company, regular average income for everyone, just the boss gets a bit more.
when I play av sets its no longer than 50 minutes, and most of the audio live acts I have seen seldom perform longer than an hour. I often hear from audio artists that they find it pretty hard to keep the tension over an hour with fresh and selfproduced stuff. I totally agree with that.
I like to play within a vj line up but thats only with events over 3000 punters, it just wouldnt pay off.
the djs of regional reputation are verly likely to play 5 to 6 hours a night cause they are keen on being recognized by agents and other promoters to get more gigs. I think the market leverages, everyone has to work harder and longer to be able to survive. even established av companies have to offer discounts since every wacko now can get a 50000 bucks credit to buy some lightning and sound equipement to hire out a ridiculous low prices.
av sets wont change the timeface, I guess. they will be placed at prominent time slots to have maximum attention but they wont become a replacement for the usual dj/vj entertainment line up.

[jimmyogenic]

Your in Luxury land jimmyogenic :).....most of us I'd say are forced to play the entire event....and keep it fresh if you want to keep your bookings;) It's just much harder work than your used too :biggrin:

i'd disagree, i get offered all night events, but the pay isn't reflected, so i turn the events down and say that its x amount for x hours work..

when i first started i did long hauls 9-4 and although i enjoyed it, i have no desire to vj for 7 hours in one sitting. if people want to employ me for doing a quality 2-3 hours instead of 7 hours plus where the last 2 hours are recyling what i've already shown then that means they're people who are more likely to appreciate what i'm doing and i'd like to work with..

[vj_jasper]

less is more - can be an excellent paradigm to approach culture-related activities. however, for some, an entire night of vj-ing a 1000 person event can provide a fairly enjoyable amount of money. makes it more worthwhile.
so a 7 -hour set can require some crafty ways to make it all happen in fresh ways. if everything was played only once, and two sources are being mixed at any given moment, that is 14 hours of visuals.

re/ repetition of content - can it be an okay thing?
variety is the spice of life, yet riffs grooves and audio loops are staples of the dj's fare, so surely it is okay for vj's to show certain preprepared 10-15 minute sequences/edits a number of times during an event, to reference the functional aspect of vj-ing (interactive video wallpaper and atmosphere creation) while also reaching for the abstract narrative and recontextualisation. through repetition, a sequence of clips can have a variety of meanings.

[SteveG]

Obviously if your recycling for the last 2hrs that's down to choice and the amount of material one has.

Recycling subtly throughout the night I think demonstrates that you are mixing live. An example, recently accompanying DJ Yoda I mixed and scratched his video for a recent release, "Wheels of Steel" I think it is. Later in the night another DJ played a different mix of the track and again I remixed the video a little more in the backgound obviously to mimic the amount of track the DJ played. The crowd were certainly aware the visual mix was being done live and not from a DVD.

Recycling,remixing is what we do isn't it?

[jimmyogenic]

Recycling,remixing is what we do isn't it?

yup, no disagreement there, i just don't feel that anyone can concentrate and keep things fresh for 7 hours...

and in 7 hours of playing, are you telling me your not using any "filler" material? any vj should have loads of strong clips and others that arn't so... i'd just prefer to play a 2 hour set full of strong quality clips instead of padding out and using stuff thats not so strong to the detriment of the set as a whole..

what if the only time the promoter watches is when your weaker clips are up? as they've got much more important things to worry about such as how many more people are going to put some cash in their pocket tonight!

Recycling subtly throughout the night I think demonstrates that you are mixing live

well another thought is "oh they're playing the same clips as an hour ago, must be a dvd on loop" ;)

[vj_jasper]

an idea about repetition in music video clips: it is fine to repeat a piece of footage twice if the first time you show it there is an effect applied also. second time natural. there may seem to be no logic to this approach, however it seems to work well.

andy warhol utilised repetition as a tool, and so i think that makes it more usable. if repetition were employed as a narrative device, it may seem too narrow, however, if used as a tool, repetition is cool. as is non-repetition.

[deepvisual]

during the dark days of my digital video degree way back in 2003, the teacher said, if a director shows you the same thing 3 times he is trying to tell you something significant.

but apart from that, its interesting to see visuals and Djing slowly moving together in terms of wages and working hours but maybe not Kudos.

[USE]

i started off in a three-man crew, and that was jsut about bearable for 7 hours, but it was all live and nothign was repeated to obviously. because there was three of us getting a decent wage wasnt hard, but it was all spent on accomodation, food and travel.

now im off on my own (they gave up) and getting relatively lowpaid gigs considering im providing the projectors and rigging etc. most of the time, cos these ars such minor gigs, its all about the chaos button on resolume, im not getting paid a decent ammount so i dont put n what i would call a decent show. if an act really inspires me, i'll shoot over and accompany them live, and i do notice an added interest from the crowd, which is reassuring.

the trouble is that if im bringing the screen, i cant bring myself to dismantle before the end, as it affects the vibe of the night. but i know i should, and i also know that these type of nights simply dont have the budget for proper visuals, but i do em, cos theyre interesting.

[vj_jasper]

during the dark days of my digital video degree way back in 2003, the teacher said, if a director shows you the same thing 3 times he is trying to tell you something significant.

but apart from that, its interesting to see visuals and Djing slowly moving together in terms of wages and working hours but maybe not Kudos.

interesting. so if a vj shows you something three times there may be an implied film language meaning - i.e. something is significant about that particular clip. hmmm. and yet... a friend once said to me - "if you can watch a clip for ten minutes and still not get pissed off, then that's a good clip". haha. an interesting related topic, this content-effort-quantity ratio thing.

i wonder if an A.V. act is going to aquire more kudos. possibly not. i think it is the audio act that must be fresh and somehow magnetic, which is then 'augmented' by visuals, e.g. the Pink Floyd show. i guess ELO is more of an integrated AV presentation where both elements have equal importance.