Time to grow up

[spaceman]

The v.j. scene is quite new, and from my distant point of view (i'm in india) very disorganised. it need to get a structure like the music biz:
not all d.j.s are musician, not all musos play like(electronic music), not all bands play original materials ect......

What I think is needed is like the music biz - divisions of duty
Some people are better at making visuals, and some love to spend the whole night in night club tripping people out.

so eventualy what is nedded is a real v.j. label like a music label.
have creators under contract to produce new material for sale , release dvds, get live gigs for artists, promo distrib ect....

d.j. don't play only stuff they have copyright ect.. for but because the artist are paid for their work it's ok

[MoRpH]

The scene is maturing in it own way with various projects in different fields achiving great goals, eg. Kriel, my self (in aust), etc working on the profile of VJing, The addictive TV guys working on commercial sale of VJ mixes, the hippo guys working on getting video into more clubs, others working on booking agency setups, etc.... its all moving along nicely in a very co-operative way..... if you are commited to a specific area of this I would love to hear about your efforts and any way we can help.

<snip edited and sent PM>

[hamageddon]

The v.j. scene is quite new, and from my distant point of view (i'm in india) very disorganised. it need to get a structure like the music biz:
well, the industry hasn't recognised vjing as a cashcow
yet, we sure mite have a structure like this one then.
but it might turnout to be another flavor of the week
hype then, and could do more harm than good.
i think we can learn alot from the rise of the indie
music networks in the late 70's and push them
to the next level using the power of the internet.


so eventualy what is nedded is a real v.j. label like a music label.
have creators under contract to produce new material for sale , release dvds, get live gigs for artists, promo distrib ect....
there are vjlabels out there like electronica-optica and moonshine
i think their number will grows as the public interest grows, but
again, now we still got time to form a global structure, true.

d.j. don't play only stuff they have copyright ect.. for but because the artist are paid for their work it's ok
not sure what u mean here. but if u're saying the original
artist should recieve fair pay for his work, i'm with u.
but from my experience with the majors in these commerical music structures the artists are often getting lousy pay,
we gotta find a way to divide the money straight between all parties involved (artist, organisation, promotion, distribution)
without producing unnecessary overhead.

[vjrei]

Vj's editor: Some one that create their own material, It is more like the old school using vcrs and slice proyectors and stuff. The life performance are not that interactive.

Performance VJ: Like I do, I'm more in to using laptos only (actually Powerbooks) and I get footage from every where and I can produce my custom using After Affects, Final Cut Pro. etc. if the client wants to pay for that but I'm not gonna have a hard time producing things in my studio because I need too much rotaion of my clips because I play every week end and people get tire of my clips easy.

Instalation: A very fun part that consist in installing screens and proyectosr ina a very creative way. I know guys that only do that, specially for clubs and stuff. It is a part that require a lot of imagination.

Of course all VJ's have the 3 tendences but usually one is better in one or 2 of them. The 3 of them are very fun any way and in a long way one is gonna learn the 3 tendences as well.

The good thing about VJing is actually that there are not standarts yet. We are in the age equivalent to the first Apple IIC computer, we are in the late 70's of computing, we are the firs generation of visualisers and we sure have to create the way and the standarts.

[spaceman]

I am currently putting together moonshine type of audio/visual stuff together, I create both at the same time more or less, being isolated (i'm the only v.j. in india I think) I have a hard time getting a feel of what's out there, althu being here I have the advantage of the "ethnic" angle. I have done shows with d.j.s, mixing live visuals with his tracks and playing in between my pre-composed audio/visual tracks. I'm impressed by what you guy do in OZ (by the way I've grown up there, Love the place).
What I am striving for is to show my stuff outside of india, ether by getting gigs or creating audio/music things....
[I'm actualy French, living in india but I will be going back to the west by the end of the year]

As for a v.j. label, my perspective is diferent than moonshine, I see it more like a DVD contening finished pieces as well as loops or footage or patches from the artist to use for live sets.


please don't get offended by the heading of this post I meant it in a nice way, The legions of visual artists out there need a fort, before the biz catches on and Britney releases her v.j. package complete with e-jay style software and THAT becomes the norm....

[hamageddon]

Originally posted by spaceman
please don't get offended by the heading of this post I meant it in a nice way, The legions of visual artists out there need a fort, before the biz catches on and Britney releases her v.j. package complete with e-jay style software and THAT becomes the norm....
no offense taken. and yeah, that's what i meant by saying
"flavor of the week hype"

[Kriel]

quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by spaceman
please don't get offended by the heading of this post I meant it in a nice way, The legions of visual artists out there need a fort, before the biz catches on and Britney releases her v.j. package complete with e-jay style software and THAT becomes the norm....
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, Carl Cox has already done a project for PlayStation II that lets you do really basic visuals along with your DJ mix. I don't think the visual side had much of an impact though. Still room for something new.

[MoRpH]

are we comparing Carl to Brittany here???

http://www.raves.com/images/carl%20cox1.jpg OR http://www.baworks.com/interface/MEDIA/cinema/crossroads5.jpg Hmmmmm tough choice :p

[Anyone]

it's actually easy to compare them...

one is dance-able but not very shaggable
and the other is vice-versa.
guess which is which...

BTW,
I've heard something about britney's show
being completely video driven?

Ne1

[Rovastar]

I have so many jokes but cannot say any of them. :);):D

[unjulation]

now there's a serprise rova. lol :)

[Arnout]

Making your content available for other VJ's around, is also one on the things we had in mind with Pilgrim. Pilgrim projects and layers can be shared among VJ's, both commercially and non-commercially.

Imagine the possibilities: VJ's all around the world putting their Pilgrim creations on (our central) website, together with a short description about which trigger keys are used in links to control the visuals, you just download and start VJ'ing immediately.

like to hear your thoughts

Arnout / Loose Goose

[LEVLHED]

we visual artists are in an infancy stage, however unlike the metaphors used we have one crucial advance..THIS VERY COMMUNITY. At no other time in history has there been a similar instance of a burgeoning world-wide scene with a very realtime connection/communication. We are a relatively small community (albiet growing rapidly) but we are strong because we communicate. There is no telling what this means for the future of our field, but it seems to be taking us much further/faster than could ever be possible even 5 years ago. Everyday we build bridges to like minds all over the world. I dare say in a matter of a year we simply won't fit into the convienient music biz model.

[vjrei]

I'm in Caracas, Venezuela. There are about 5 VJs around here, I'm the best VJ in town right now, there are 2 others that started 2 years before me but they are old school.

Now, let say that we are 3 people with a name here, so, I call them, meet with them and we regulate the industry price. I have better equipment than then and my price is the top one. So, they are gonna have my same price per show and they can rent my equipment to mantain that price.

We are talking about $2000 for a big event, it can be really more but the average price is that. Now, that si my price, they can charge less than that but to mantain it they can rent my 2 computers (one with Motion Dive and the otherone with Arkaos VJ) and use their art with them. I can rent their computers too, so, every body wins.

At the end will only depends on the each other art and stile and that should be the point.

To create a stable market is better to start to regulate your local market, one step at a time. A "Union" or a "VJ International Asociation" is more factible than a VJ lable. Lables are local most of the time.

I'll move to the US soon and there I'm gonna work around that.

[holly]

Unions and price fixing is good for VJ ? Promotor/Club Owner relations, but does nothing to grow a fan base or create recognizable VJs.... Starting a label of DVD releases runs the risk of canabalizing the marketplace or worse, flooding the scene with generic content.... I think this might offend some people but I'll say it anyway: there's a tendancy here to put the cart before the horse. Don't labels and unions come after everyone is making tons of money and there is an already an industry to feed on? Of course there will be vanguards who do it first in power markets (Netherlands, Australia, San Francisco), but most areas are too dry to support a label, much less a union.

In my market (NYC) the video scene is either BYOpB (Bring Your Own PowerBook) or pre-recorded art installation loop running in a gallery. In a town with three top film schools and an indy movie industry, you also have to explain that VJing isn't about showing 10 minute student art films. I think VJing will grow up here when there are some recognizable stars ? recognizable to the punters ? and VJs start to fit into the mainstream. It's barely starting to happen, but it's still very underground, and also still very geeky. VJ festivals are considered to be "high-tech" and "experimental" ? not particularly something that would appeal to everyone. I don't know of any VJs that have real draw potential or the ability to pack a room on their name alone. Even the trance scene is underground and in wearhouses. Big clubs don't do a lot of video. The corporate market has found a few darlings that they recognize as names (mostly through the recording industry), but as far as the punters know there's still no such thing.

[vjrei]

Well, you are making some points where I have to say "I can not tell you, it is your time to figure that out". I mean, I live in Caracas, it is a 8 million people city and a I considered as a microcosmos for technology testing.

There is a tremendus market for VJs down here, depends of the client and the service that you provide. I'm about to move to New York and talk about that with another VJ friend of mine up there. Down here, in a country with so many economic problems a VJ can make $10.000 a night without too much efford.

Now, I want to go some other palces and pruve the same formula.

Unions is a big word, too big. But the best way to create a market is to consolidade a business relationship with other VJs, one thing is the art and the other one the industry, the more money we all make the better.

I'm charging $2.000 in a regular event, 5 months ago I was charging $20 per night! In a year a created a name and people preffer to pay my that ammount than pay the $20 or $50 in other VJ's just because the other guys are post production geeks and I'n not, I'm a visual producer.

To make the story short I have 2 gold rules that I allways apply:

1. Know the business: Every single aspect of it, technology, clients, tendences, etc.

2. Find the business of your businees: Where is the money in what you are doing? you have to be creative here. Innovate.