a VJ consortium to promote the art...

[vjpixylight]

Hi All,
I am propossing to start a VJ consortium, worldwide, which will lay down standards that will lead to a much stronger, more viable
VJ community and give VJ's a recognizable voice in dealing with promoters and agents...
this should be a nominating process, and be administered by VJ forums like this one...
As far as standards, I am thinking of ways to get VJ's leverage with promoters...
I know that the bottom line to a promoter is pulling power, but if we all would start fashioning our VJ sets
like DJ sets(time wise), then more exposure to VJ's,(and more VJ's playing in one nite) which would lean to more recognition and pulling power..
The fact that wannabe's play a couple of tapes all nite long does nothing to give them (or any VJ's), real exposure,
and in my opinion, hurts the "2 hour set" principle...
The VJ scene is still evolving, and if we as a collective don't start formulating options to get VJing more recognized by the
general peeping public, then we are all bound to be plauged by inconsitencies, and lack of standards that will hurt the process of becoming viable as artists, and recognizable to the peeping audience...

I therefore am proposing a nominating process, which will establish VJ's from all over the world, as recognized experts in their fields, to establish a more standardized reflection of what VJ's should try to achieve in performance...ect..
I therefore nominate Radley Marx as a west coast(US) deligate....Radley has been promoting VJing as an artform for a while now, and has enuf interactive contacts on the west coast to be a great voice and rep. for Vj's in his area...
VJ's around the world: think about the ppl that have been the most help to you in getting started and motivated to become a VJ, and nominate them...

[vjpixylight]

boy lots of views but no response...maybe this idea is just pie in the sky, or just ahead of it's time..but I still would like to make us more of a family, and give everyone some form of voice in adopting these 'standards'...

[unjulation]

only just read the thred, theres a lot of good ideas in there, anything to make this a conected comunity has got to be good, but by it's very nature then I could see you haveing problems implermenting this "vj council" idea.

[vjpixylight]

I guess we won't know unless it is tried...
come on morph...you are the undisputed points leader..
use some of your clout to get this ball rolling...

[MoRpH]

Hahaha... use my clout huh :p

VJedi council :p

I'm personally still mulling over what I think about the idea..... personally I think we sort of have a good enough strong community here, without the need for some sort of council, also I'm not sure ppl would feel right about being represented by others not into the same "style" as them.... I guess its the same as why there is no "grand council" of painting, etc...

Oh and also for every authorative body that sets up there will always be the rogues that wish to bring down the structure or create a larger identity (sith, rogue vjedi :p)...... also I really doubt that this idea as it will be time consuming (and may take away from there elite status) would really fly with the most recognized acts in the field, who would be our best assest to have onside as they already get the exposure.....

my 2cents, thinking out loud....

[vjpixylight]

wouldn't necessarily have to be a council, more like a union of qualified VJ's that have agents working for them getting them gigs...

[MoRpH]

Well what would the charter be??? cause if its just a union of respected VJs with agents working to get them gigs then you can make that yourself anywhere... doesn't really serve a purpose to the community rather just to the individuals themselves.

[vjpixylight]

well in a typical union situation, (say the Motion Pictures Industry of America, for instance,) contributing members make up a powerful and effective lobby which promotes the good of their organization...
the whole idea behind the union movement was the idea that poor workers (VJ's Now) could form together to get better working conditions and wages from there non-caring employers(promoters)...

I think that you cats in aussie land might not be
in the competition for work that many of us here in the states and europe are, so you don't need to see the status quo change, but with the average gig wage here in the states at a 100 bucks, I think that things need to be done...:) :)

[LEVLHED]

here hear!

Its a good idea, but needs some more fleshing-out. I think everyone is trying to figure out what this would mean for them.

Lets keep brain storming.
Throw your ideas, thoughts, opinions out here.
Don't criticize each other for "dumb" ideas.
Nobody knows if this can work or not.
I think we all agree that something needs to be done to help VJing as a profession develop.
If you don't agree with the need for this, then your opinion isn't needed here.

[Anyone]

Not sure about making a VJ union, guild or sorta
"Microsoft Certified" piece of paper would
give us more recognition for getting better gigs
or better paycheques...

Maybe a better idea would be to create a
website about Vjs but not FOR Vjs.
It would be for the general public,
or for promoters that
would go and check out a VJ name
from a registered database.

This database would tell a user
who are the top rated Vjs internationally,
as well as the local flavors
what is their specialty(or VJ genre), who they played with
and most importantly, how much they charge...

Hope this helps,
VJ Ne1

[vjpixylight]

Okay... let me lay it out in more real world terms...
here is what I'm talking....> about,10:00 PM, your on your way to the gig, the first couple of VJ's have already warmed up the peepers; Youget up on stage and pull out your opening DVD's and throw them in the decks; next you open your Dell, and start mixing in your custom vids that no one has, from a new kickass program that another VJ turned you on to from the last multi VJ gig....after bringing the peepers to the height of extacy, as the DJ puts on the build...Boy a two hour set sure makes it easy to enjoy yourself, and the peepers love it...:D
after your set, you are free to mingle with the fans, and the last VJ of the nite weaves some nice smooth groove stuff to help bring down the peeps after your eye tripin psychedelics...
Am I missing anything?? Oh let's look at the alternative shall we???

5:00 PM, and your running late to get the nights gig set up, your late cause you just found out that your gear didn't get cleaned after the last gig, and you had to attend to it before you left your house...
You get to the gig to find out that the light guy has set up some of his lighting directly where you had talked about setting up the screen with the promoter only a day before...After alot of hassells you get the screen set up, get your gear set up..oh shit the party starts in 20 min. and I havn't even done a sound/light check to make sure everything is working...1:00 and everything is going okay, but you have to take a piss, and leave your set up for a minute...Your a little worried about it, but you got to go bad...by the time you get back, the lappy your using is gone...damn-it you think to yourself...Is any of this even worth it??? If I had been up on stagee where I should be doing my kick-ass set, instead of back in this corner??? You ask the promoter to help you get the lappy back..Not his business, your just the all nite visual guy, and if yoiu can't keep those visualz going, well you don't get that 100 bucks... Shit, someone, help me out, I'm drowning over here...No way says the status quo...I just do my own thing, I don't give a shit about you...get insurance...:mad:
Now I'm thinking doesn't anyone give a shit?? Just then a union Rep steps up to the plate...You need representation this guy tells me...I can get you into a club where all you bring is your media, no hassels..
I say "wow where did you come from?" Oh we are part of the changing face of club entertainment and we work for you...Artists should be Artists, and our union is here to see that you are without all the hassels...I can't believe my ears???Someone is going to make sure that I am not getting screwed...Unbelievable...%0 bucks a month, and I don't even have to drag out my gear, damn who ever thought of this is sure a savior...
"a rebel walks alone, anyways..."

[MoRpH]

Hmmmm all interesting and good points... personally I prefer 3-4 hour sets myself..... normally need an hour or so to get the crowd warmed up etc...

As for the ppl making up this group to promote VJ as an artform, etc... these ppl would need to be existing high profile artists eg. light surgeons, tomato, OVT, addictive TV, etc.... as they are really the only ones that get the exposure to the mainstream to be able to push this agenda...

Yes it is compeditive here in aust pixy but we tend to have a bit of a group ethic where were all already working in the same direction (when ever we get exposure personally we try to promote VJing as an art)...... we formed a loose collective of aussie VJs after electrofringe '00 and one of that main premises for that was the stuff you outline above, credibilty, stop undercutting, fairer deals for VJs, etc...

Personally I think its a local thing best handle locally.... state/country....... except for the world wide profile of VJing and thats only gonna change when the big boys decided to share some of there monopoly around and I guess that might hurt there business so they would have much to loose and only cred (not $$$) to gain....

[unjulation]

not that i'm banging my own drum, but, why should i trust some one-else's vision of what is reality? which then brings me to the point of why should anyone trst my vision? again this is a bit of a mystrey to me.
so ware does that leave us ?

[vjpixylight]

As for the ppl making up this group to promote VJ as an artform, etc... these ppl would need to be existing high profile artists eg. light surgeons, tomato, OVT, addictive TV, etc.... as they are really the only ones that get the exposure to the mainstream to be able to push this agenda...


I think that is certainly a step in the right direction...

I think that every corner of our small planet has these types of inovators, and when they come together as yuo guys in aus did at electrofringe, the family grows, and the respect for one another is established...It is the VJ's that don't know each other,
or havn't seen each other's work, that seem to battle it out, undercut and stab each other in the back...Once you know someone that is trying to make their way just like you are, then the bonds grow...groups and forums like this help, but the best way to grow is by pysiaclly working together with a common goal...

ot that i'm banging my own drum, but, why should i trust some one-else's vision of what is reality? which then brings me to the point of why should anyone trst my vision?

Unj why do you have to trust and follow someone elses vision??
by working together to make VJing better, we don't have to follow each other around like children...There is plenty of room for free thought in group type council...Concensus is the key here...

[unjulation]

sory but i went of on a thought that i've been trying to figer out eversince i've been floting around this vertuial world we call the net, basicly around the idea that why should people belive what you say hence the trust when you meet on the net, now i know people do which to me is very interesting psychologicley speeking, it's not reay to do with vj's per say its just something that i'm interested about within human behaviour and psyche, and as this is a new medium that we are dealing with hear, the info we get from our behaviour on the net is an indicator of several things going on within our psyche, anyway i was trying to explain this to exhale the outher day but i was very very drunk and i dont think i explaind it very well and i aint herd a peep out of him since:confused:
just go's to show never try to explain a psychological concept when your drunk as a skunk :p

[unjulation]

the question that i was realy asking was :-

if you have no proof that an indervidual is what/who they say they are why should you belive them.

it's not that i don't disaberlive but theres no logical reason that i should, you almost have to make a leep of faith, or am i geting to theological with this idea?

anyway that was wat i was curious about.

now of corse, based upon this concept, there's no reason that anyone should belive a word i say, it goes both ways, i feel that it's something worth discusing especialy if we start organising things together.

mabey this thred is not the one to discus it in but let us know what you think

[vjpixylight]

Unj,
I know what you mean, it is hard to know where everyones headspace is at...
As far as knowing about the credentials of VJ's on the web, well that would have to be examined on a case by case basis...

[avdv]

As far as i can see all that a union will do is push up prices for a vj performance and make promoters even less likely to book.The basic problem with the debate on improving a vj's lot is that 100% ofthe people who attend a club are there for the music and promoters know this, vj's are often seen as just adding a bit of decoration to the night. It may be unpalatble for some of you to hear but clubs can happily get by without visuals,from the promoters point of view its an extra cost that he may or may not be willing to pay. It is true that a good vj can add something to a night but so will a vhs copy of a vj set or even a film and its obviously a cheaper alternative. I think that the only way in which vj's are going to make a name from themselves is if they start producing work that is automonous from the dj and exists as a self contained av set, if they start to find there own audience and stop riding on the back of an audience that is there for another reason, alternatively they can develope a distinctive and unique style much as dj's do. But if you really want to draw analogies between vj's and dj's which everyone seems to want to do
most of the vj's i see are still pushing out the visual equivilent of happy hardcore, tried, tested and dated. The few visual artists that i admire have dropped this allusion to being a visual dj and started to look at vj's most obvious relative, filmmaking as a source of inspiration.

[vjpixylight]

yes it is true that at electronic music clubs, (W/DJ's) Vjing is secondary, and to get $$ and recognition, will have to diverge into AV/PA's...
There is, however, alot of more main stream VJing that can be done (outside of the DJ arena) such as vjing with Rock bands,
VJing for spoken word performances, and VJing for Nu-theatre among others...
I believe if we make VJing into more of an artform instead of looking at it as an addition to the DJ, We all will benifit from doing this form of art...:)

[eXhale]

Originally posted by avdv
most of the vj's i see are still pushing out the visual equivilent of happy hardcore, tried, tested and dated. The few visual artists that i admire have dropped this allusion to being a visual dj and started to look at vj's most obvious relative, filmmaking as a source of inspiration.
it's true that currently VJs in clubs are roughly the equivalent of light engineer or laser guy. i mean, it's nice and entertaining but not all that "artistic". for that matter, most DJ are also here to give an atmosphere to the club. when you think about it, people don't really come to clubs for the music, but more to dance, relax and be with their friends.

to go to the next level, some will choose (and have chosen) the full blown A/V show but personnaly i find it much more interesting to "work" (or rather "have fun") with others than attempt to do it all yourself. it's also more creative, since you have more than one input. that's why i'm trying more and more to mix with bands (i've been playing on a band for 5 months and i'm starting with a new one this summer)

i don't know about film making, i find that it's quite different. what i like about VJing in general is the live part. i love to watch good movies, but i don't think i'd be able to stick during months on a project like this, without knowing/feeling what others think of it when i "release" it.