Discussion & Poll - Content Protection

[ElektroMotif]

I would like to ask for ppl's opinions on distribution techniques for show reels, samples etc,

IMO It would be naieve to believe that sending a VHS tape, CD, or DVD to a client and simply trusting that your work could not, or would not be sekonded.

Corporates and businesses whereby prior consultation in the creative design stage has been requested, are probably least likely to be underhand, however, it is with some dismay that I know that many others, most especially nightclubs, will see a sent showreel in whatever format as an opportunity to use, digitise, copy etc; we can not all afford civil law suits.

Now this may be old rope to established graphics houses but to up and coming VJ's I feel it is an issue for consideration.

As I see it here are the possibilities to protect against this and their pro's and con's:

a) Copy protection. There are freeware and commercial copy protection applications available for CD's, some use bogus tracks to give invalid ISO tables to a burner image and thuis yield the resultant copy unreadable to most CDROM's. Others can put a limit on the amount of times a CD can be read before it "self destructs" (mission impossible style LOL) This however does not stop someone playing the original to a VHS tape and even subsequently re-digitising it.

b) Content encryption. Since the DVD vector based cypher is not available (that I can find) to us mere mortals, this is going to prove expensive ;-( Since the DVD cypher was also broken very shortly after it's creation it's almost definately not worth the high cost.

c) Digital watermarking. Digimarc is possibly best known for it's plug in for Premiere and Photoshop that can interleave hidden frames containing copyright information in bitmaps. Again this is at a cost, though more reasonable, it would also require considerable civil legal action to estrapulate the evidence, far from ideal for us mear mortals.

d) Identing. This is possibly the most effective, IMO, and has the added bonus that if footage is sekonded and used without permission or comissioning, at least your logo and perhaps url is advertised in the precess. It does also carry the con of how big? Where? and has an often adverse effect on the footage. It could also be argued that it could be cropped out but this would usually dramatically alter the balance of the composition.

e) Low resolution / FPS / stills. Downsampling your material whether spatially or temporaly is definately not going to help get your glossy, detailed, smooth loveliness across

f) Bespoke formatting. I looked into Bink video as an option in the reasonable gamble that few receiving parties would have the noodle to find RAD tools and decompress the self executable to an AVI format. In fact, I was somewhat dismayed to find that this could be reverse decompressed...........maybe again for a price it could have the lid put on it?

So now that if I probably seem to be a paranoid Vidiot?...........though only based upon my knowledge of the industry sectors in which I have worked; I would very much like your comments on this matter.

Search the internet for info' on this and you will find that the sites relating to ripping copyrighted material out-number those that consider the need for protecting materials until they are formally comissioned 20:1..........sadly!

[charlielangridge]

I know their is a way with mp3's to stop them being burned. It happend on an mp3 i had - i could play it fine, but when it came to burning it i got a blank track and the same when came to opening it in wavelab. Is their a vid equiv of this, if not why not! ;)

Charlie

[complexvisuals]

I never send a demo reel. If a promotor needs to see my work I either a) invite them to a gig and/or b) meet with them and show my reel on my computer.

Never ever ever do the promotor get a copy of the demo reel.

Cian
COMPLEX

[Primebase3]

made a demo and just gave one to ne1 for ica and 2 promos, but the visuals are edited with live sets and the edits of the work are so short so it's pretty useless to use for a set. i voted trust but I want to say: add streetsmarts with it. if you make a demo make sure you display your work without making it useable! for example with ..short edits or other techniques. besides demo's need to get out there and be shown to as many people as possible! I'll put a mpeg of dm4 online soon so you can see what I mean.


peace,

[brain]

hi res tapes/disks for promoters/DJs:
identing with BIG eyetrap.net (=name+URL) keyed near the vertical middle (no chance of cropping). no more than 10 minutes to a promoter. if some bastard uses THIS in public, he does promo for us.

web:
res down to 240x320 15fps QT + smaller, still readable name.
clips max length 90 sec.

hi res tapes/disks for screenings/shows/contests:
small logo in lower third + sent only to people i trust.

[scoopmeisterTF]

Agree with Complexvisuals. It helps to take your CD-r/Vidtape/Whatever around to potential clients and play it to them rather than just sending it . . . . Not only for ass-protection but so you can develop the relationship: one assumes that all work that results will lead to more work so it makes sense to get the connections right at the start . . . .

[robotfunk]

Instead of a static watermark which is really nothing more than saying 'I don't want you to copy this' I have a scrolling text superimposed that explains the context of what they are seeing, plus random bits of bio. Also images of the flyer, photo's of the setup and the venue/crowd etc.

This feels a bit more positive and it is informative as well.There's always some unprotected bits but never for long.

Then there are things like this DVD compilation that I'm doing a 10 minute a/v mix for. This I don't protect. Wouldnt know a way to protect it and wouldn't want to have even the tiniest watermark on that. I'm sure someday someone will rip it and I'm just going to have to live with it.

[littlecatalyst]

robot i'd mix that promo reel! can i?
but seriously, thats an awesome and politically suave way of getting around them getting their mitts on anything! (wish there was an applause, or standing ovation smiley.... jilt u deserve the applause one for that post.
SO for flo but thats a different story...)

[seex]

Thinking about other vj-s using my loops in their sets i realised that it's a sign of good taste and that they can recognise qality when they see it. This helps me feeling proud in stead of cheated, when i hear my stuff is being used by someone else.

When your material is uniqe and original that is the best watermark you can make. If your visuals have this strong personal it will be recognised. And in the right crowd you will be credited, meaning someone from the vj- community that has a certain overviev of created content has a grater chance to recognise thats your stuff. And thats the best promotion you can get, since its not only you who is proud of your own work but also someone else from the vj-scene is happy to use it, its like a compliment from a fellow vj.

But becoming famous is not an easy job, and it does help if your name gets round, so including the logo in to the visuals is IMO the best option.

[akira_k]

Originally posted by seex
Thinking about other vj-s using my loops in their sets i realised that it's a sign of good taste and that they can recognise qality when they see it.
Of course they do, and instead of making their own stuff they go lazy-arse and pinch data from other people all across the globe and shot it. I don't thik that should be encouraged.

Also, I have seen that when this happens, people take credit for the visuals which are not theirs. The punters and/or promoters usually don't have a clue so they might believe them. I agree tha twhen your style is unique it will be recognized, but by how many? Probably only by the ones who are into the same biz as you, and surely that isn't going to get you any more promotion.

Right now I'm the "distrusting" kind of guy: I take my stuff and show it to them. It's specially nasty around here, and I don't want any problems.

[sleepytom]

hmmm

there is a big diffrence between demos and released tracks - demos should be heavaly branded with your logo and big words saying DEMO with a date of when it was produced.

personally i don't see the problem with people playing tracks you have made and relesed - this is how music works after all - people produce records and other people play them in clubs - surly this is the way that VJing will go?

in our AV show we play not only our own audiovisual compositions but music videos and AV tracks produced by other people - we also play records that were made by someone else with our own visuals. why do people think that the audiance assumes that you have made it all yourself - when we play a sample from pulp fiction they know we didn't make it - when we play some music by fatboyslim they don't think we made it - why do people assume that the audiance will think that everything we play we make ourselves?

we do not claim to make everything we show and if anone asks us who made a perticular track or clip we will tell them - when people have put there titles or logo on we leave it in - we are not pretending to make all of the stuff we show - if people release AV work surly they want people top be able to see it? - i can't imagine having this debate about music - people who make music really like to hear it played out - why should it be diffrent with visuals?

ultimatly if you don't want other people to play your tracks don't relese them - if its a demo then make it obvious that its a demo with your contact details and stuff on screen

[holly]

Does anyone have an example of this (piracy) really being a problem - like losing a job or seeing your demo played at a club? I've given out a few demos but they were very short, and I can't say they ever landed me any gigs. Mostly I get gigs by reputation or thru personal friends. Locally, I have seen a VJ try to copy my style, but that is really nothing to be upset about (sincerest form of flattery, etc)....

There was an old guy (no longer on VJf) who always claimed that someone who worked for him had copied an entire show right off the feed leading to the projector and then tried to undercut his business, but this guy complained about a lot of things.... I'd say getting ripped off by a partner is more likely than getting ripped off by a demo reel....

[Lucidhouse]

Do you want people to redistribute your videos/moving images, as long as they give you credit?

Do you want fans to share your moving images, so long as they don't make money off them?

Provided they don't remix or change them?

Do you want to help create and have access to a pool of royalty-free footage which you can include as part of your own compositions?
.................................................. ................................

Theres a way to licencing your material/DVD's where all of the above is included into the agreement.

check out the creative commons (http://www.creativecommons.org) website for more

[seex]

Like I said I dont mind if someone else uses my clips as a part of his show, if he makes money off it, he ows me a compliment and a beer.

It is after all the cntext of images that makes the finall impression and if that context includes one or two of my clips i dont consider myself co creating the show. But i believe that this is making an intimate statement concerning me and the vj and thats to be respected.

For the forum promoting origanality, its a good thing definetly, but i must admit i saw some prety boring gigs that were all original and thats the most one could say about them. The possibilty is out there and limiting oneself to only one kind of material must have a greater concept behind the work.

[akira_k]

I think if you RELEASE your stuff then it's all well for people to use, haven't been talking about that really. And the thing about people taking cred for others work... obviously pulp fiction is recognizable, but what about using a piece from someone unknown? I'm talking about an act quite different to yours tom, though. Yours is something special which I'd like to see someday, but in my case the promoter comes in looking for fresh content and if I used someone else's piece I would obvoulsy say so, but some people DO take credit for what they haven't done. I suppose this isn't as usual in other countries. So...
Originally posted by holly
Does anyone have an example of this (piracy) really being a problem - like losing a job or seeing your demo played at a club?
Hmm yeah, me, have seen my stuff being used and other people's as well... Wouldn't mind if I released anything, but I never did, it was stuff that was kept for ME. And credit was taken for what -I- have done. The situation in this case is kind of messy, but let's say I did lose a few job opportunities because of this. Nothing to worry about since I got job anyway, from the same promoter, but it feels like shite when you go to the venue and all you see is theft on the screen. Oh yeh the guy was someone i worked with so that's how he got access to my stuff.

[seex]

Kiken, when you mention this here its good promotion and a qality mark. I say don't loose your nerves about it, the word gets round eventuraly and when it does you will be credited even more.

What goes round...

[Rovastar]

I thought Holly's question was rhetorical.

.......don't get me started.............:)

[sleepytom]

hmmm i've never really got your point though john - you release stuff on the web for free and make no effort to inform people of the licence its realeased under (ie if i download an avs pack it doesn't have any copyrite notice in the zip) then you complain when people play the stuff in clubs???

if you made it clear that the presets you give away are for home use only then you would have good cause to be annoyed to see them played out in clubs - however you do not make this clear - nor do you offer any licening deals that would allow people to pay you for using your work - as such i don't understand why you continue to complain about people using the stuff you make.

[akira_k]

Originally posted by seex
Kiken, when you mention this here its good promotion and a qality mark. I say don't loose your nerves about it, the word gets round eventuraly and when it does you will be credited even more.

What goes round...
Yeah I know, I don't mind that much because I know my work is good enough to get over that. Funny thing he kept on using my OLD shit which I look at now and think it's arse. Gladly I have learned and I keep improving, he preffers to do the easy thing and pinch shite from all across the place. But I'll end it here.

[FractalStar]

I was quitting from a night club where i was working as residental VJ for 3 monthes because thay don't pay money that i have to get if you know what i mean, when they give to you 500 bucks for a month of friday and saturday partys every week, and tell pls wait up a bit, and then after two sucessuful partys they tell you that this is all youre money for a month btw also you must have content connected to a party theme boght on youre money, and buy different wares, that they keep for themselves, after you are leaving.;(

So thay don't give me a chance to erase all my vj software and content with MY sampls from the computer inside of the night club.
They say: We pay you money for youre work, so all of youre works is ours and if you have any sugestions about that we will lock up you in our freedge with 3 security guards on a short period of annal sex...

[devonmiles]

I think inserting randomly a really well designed and astonishing 3d animated logo of the vjs name will not harm the quality of the demo and should prevent most ppl from bottleging our valuable content. with everything else its just a question of time till someone spread a hack over web to descramble the sophisticated encryption methods future might bring.
additionaly: sending nothing more of 20 minutes lenghts is an obligation. if youre video is not persuasive within this lenghts it will never be.

[many2]

Originally posted by elektroschroeder
additionaly: sending nothing more of 20 minutes lenghts is an obligation. if youre video is not persuasive within this lenghts it will never be.

Very well said, I totally agree. In fact, the first and the last minute of your demo are the most important parts - don't hide your best stuff in the middle it might only be seen in FFW ;)

Many-2