VJing like a DJ (again)

[Anyone]

this question was probly asked many times before,
but not in exactly the terms below:

It's now possible, I'm sure it'll be more so in the future,

for VJs to just buy up DVDs in a shop
(from Addictive ones to Source footage DVDs)
and mix between these,
in the same manner as a DJ would buy records in a shop
and play these in a club later that same day.

Is that cheating?
should all VJs be content producers as well?

.

[sakamoto]

should all VJs be content producers as well?


not necessarily

[dubassy]

hmm an interesting one..

from a business point of view i want people to buy my clips and use them, as that is now an important part of my business as well as performing.

but for me personally when i play i only use my own content exclusively. i want to crowd to see what i've created (no different from an artist who hangs their painting up in a gallery for all to see).

from an artistic angle i dont give much cred to someone who only uses other peoples visuals and samples and cannot create their own...(but thats just me!)

not to say that mixing of visuals is easy, but as the music is key to an event, a dj will not really get away with awful mixing; the crowd will notice. a crap vj mixing other people's stuff, could very often get away with it all night long...

[sleepytom]

I know very good content producers who are not good at mixing live visuals - i know people that are not good content producers who are excellent VJs.

the people who loudly proclaim to make all their own stuff often have the weakest content in terms of variety - they may have some really nice clips but often they lack the stylistic variety to be able to do a wide selection of musical genres.

to do entirely self created visuals and maintain variety requires you to excel at camera operation AND post production AND motion graphics AND live video mixing AND rigging / stage and set design. I know nobody who is really able to be great at all these things and to be honest the best VJs will know their weaknesses and get help when they need it.

[dubassy]

to do entirely self created visuals and maintain variety requires you to excel at camera operation AND post production AND motion graphics AND live video mixing AND rigging / stage and set design. I know nobody who is really able to be great at all these things and to be honest the best VJs will know their weaknesses and get help when they need it.

its a lot of diverse skills involved and obviously help is needed to excel in all areas - but i reckon you can knock rigging / set design off your list for starters, as lots more venues have their own kit there ready and waiting nowadays, its just plug and play for many vjs. so not much rigging and no say in the design layout of screens/set as its fixed in place.

i certainly don't need to run up and down ladders as much as i did at the beginning, cos things have changed in the industry..

[Kyle]

I'm a firm believer in creating your own content but I also stand by using other content as well. I'm sorry but using only your own content could get boring after 8 hours. When I perform I find myself doing rather long sets anywhere from 6-10 hours. To keep the crowds interest I mix through hundreds of clips from friends, other vjs, stock footage, and the latest from my own stockpile. My content goodie box is growing but still not enough to run a marathon session. If, I were given the ideal job of playing a 1-2 hour gig then I would feel more comfortable playing my own stuff but history shows that I usually play the whole night. To each their own. There's no right or wrong here. Also there comes a time where your content won't fit the bill and circumstances would make it difficult to create custom content. JMO

[sleepytom]

TBH i think the lack of creative rigging / set design is one of the areas where VJing has actively regressed in the last few years. Ok so you can turn up with one laptop now and play on the same screen(s) that is always there but your visuals won't stand out from the previous nights visuals. You are relying on the quality of the set design of the club owners which is often poor to say the least (most of the clubs with recently installed video equipment put it in the place that was A cheapest and B worked for watching the football on in the daytime. this is hardly likely to be the same location that works best for a clubnight)

To be a really great VJ requires the effort and ability to transform spaces as well as creating good content and playing it well. the best visual impact will always come from keeping a venue looking fresh and different to how it looks every other night of the week.

you can knock any of the things off my list and still be a VJ - however the best VJs / VJ groups will be actively capable in ALL of the areas.

[SteveG]

There are a few DJ's who are working hard on incorporating visuals as you know Oli, heard you got great reviews from Sheffield;) Meat Katie, Dan Tait, Phil K to name a few and not so much these days James Zabiela. I think it's the best way forward to get visuals more into main stream enviroments, clubs, bars and festivals and with that obviously a lot more recognition for those who do produce good content.
Most of my material comes as Kyle has admitted from other sources and I agree and feel this often makes for a far more interesting show. The only visuals I've really had time to produce are short branding texts, logos and film shorts to compliment the rest of the material and make things a little more personal. I quite often grab stills from the club sites and show these too, gives them an occasional surprise to see known regulars flash up on screen along with board names and the likes.
I'm practicing my DJ'ing skills now using DVJ's as I think it's the way to get visuals more recognition as a future part of the clubbing experience, at the same time hopefully giving more opportunities of regular nights and bookings.
Hopefully more big DJ's will look soon at taking on their personal VJ in order to make their sets a more intimate and customised performance.

[Kyle]

To be a really great VJ requires the effort and ability to transform spaces as well as creating good content and playing it well. the best visual impact will always come from keeping a venue looking fresh and different to how it looks every other night of the week.


http://i5.tinypic.com/16hvrpd.jpg

I couldn't agree with your more Tom. This is one area that I am particularly interested in. The last few parties (psytrance) I have played at have really went all out on the deco, but the crew that was hired and responsible for the placement of the screen had fell short, not to mention the gargantuan 3d inflatables blocking the view. But with the underground trance parties you really can't expect too much organization. This is putting me on the ladder and rigging side more often than I like, which is a hassle but a necessary evil to learn the ropes.

Sorry to stray off topic but I am finding that to survive in this industry it's important to know a little bit of everything. I still think were a long way off from the DJ standard of perfromance. I am still there 2 hours before everyone else and I am still there 2 hours after everyone else. So I am still waiting for the day to arrive when a VJ can legally just pop in some DVDs that he bought to remix live, call it cheating if you want but getting paid to press buttons is a lot better then some of my previous jobs....come on djs are cashing in. For me it's all about a well balanced set.:o Does this make sense? lol

[revjrbobdodds]

"Cheating" is not really important. Rocking the party is.

That said, it's interesting that VJs may be moving toward less original visual construction, precisely in a time when DJs are becoming more original, now that new live performance digital tools (DVJs, Ableton Live, etc.) are available.

Perhaps the emphasis should be: do you rock the party, and does your set feel unique to you?

[sleepytom]

i think thats a slight misinterpretation of the reasons DJ are using live "bob" :)

DJs like live because it enables them to play a more varied set - they can mix together vastly different tunes and layer spoken word samples over the top - very few DJs are using Live to playback 100% self created music (if anything defines dance music these days its the use of samples - more often than not recycled samples of others work legally purchased or illegally ripped - few are using 100% self recorded sounds)

I see the use of purchased / swapped footage by VJs as convergence with the attitudes of music producers.

I don't believe that self created means "original" and purchased / swapped / ripped means "unoriginal" - i've seen many a self created set that lacks originality (ooh look some driving at night footage) and i've seen some really enjoyable sets made from samples both purchased and stolen.

to return to my earlier point i think that for VJS to be seen as original and unique from a punters perspective more environmental VJing approaches are required - most punters are not watching the screen most of the time so they will not actually notice too much if your footage is better / worse than the last person who was vjing in that club. however if you put the extra effort in to make the visuals part of the decor and really go to town with it people will be talking about the visuals for months afterwards.

eg:
http://www.legoman.net/medias/photo15setp3.jpg
http://vjs.net/gallery/images/0004ocean.jpg
err tried to find a good picture of the med bar on friday at avit but can't

[SteveG]

Set/screen design is all very good if your given the budget, invited to give your opinions and ideas at the planning stage or are lucky enough to own the gear to do the install. I think most VJ's will have to accept what the promoters and events supply, a normal screen hanging from the wall or ceiling, position above, behind or on each side of the stage or booth. I've never had the oportunity to do this as yet but would like to get more creative, unfortunately I don't own a production company:( Those who do get the chance of this are very lucky to be involved.

[fata alex]

I think its a really interesting contrast between DJs and VJs in the area of originality, and at the end of the day, few clubbers are going to notice if you're using clips that are also used by other VJs or using something you've created yourself, and as Tom rightly said, just cuz you made it yourself, doesn't mean its original. The DJs on the other hand, (often) thrive off playing the most recognisable tunes which the punters know and love. This issue of wanting to use our own content is really about ego, and the priority should really be to 'rock the party' as bob rightly put it. And i think this is where tom's point really meets the content issue - Yes, clubbers are going to care more about the impact and spectacle of the visuals, than how much effort you've put into filming your own clips. And that for me is one of the worst things about VJing and what draws me towards playing more 'arts' type events. It's just so annoying when you get to a gig and find the set-up is so extravagent, with odd shaped screens at funny angles, that although it looks a bit special, no-one can actually see whats going on- i sympathise kyle, psytrance gigs tend to be the worst for this with they're UV inflatables.
For ages ive been struggling with being tempted to sell clips of my content, but worried about it making my own sets less unique, but after reading this thread and thinking about it, i reckon im all for clip sharing as it should be about the moment on the night, it can only help to squash my ego which can only be a good thing really...
right, so who wants to trade some clips? i've got boxes and boxes of super8 if anyones interested!

alex.

[dubassy]

i would love if every event i played at similar thought from the organisers went into the setup as for the opus vj event (tho that night was focused on the vjs, rather than the djs) last december in marseille. the impact of the room was amazing.

maybe its a bad thing for the originality of the visuals setup at venues, but lots of vjs are travelling more, to lots of different events in various places. sometimes you'll get an awesome setup, sometimes you'll luck out..

its a price i'm prepared to pay, to be able to go to an array of different places, but maybe not have much of say in setup..

lets hope there will be lots more vjs building good working relationships with venues where they have regular residencies, and having a crucial say in how they setup for the visuals. and lots more vjs travelling to different place spreading the word (or spreading the IMAGE!)... that can only be a good thing...


238

239

240

[sleepytom]

arggh - that venue in marseille is the only place i've been bottled off stage (little french teckno crackheads complaining that we were not playing gabba through the medium of projectiles!)

[dubassy]

hey sleepy, its a funny town, all in all. it got pretty nasty here on saturday night, after france won (i'd hate to think what would have happened if france lost) any excuse for the locals to go crazy and run riot in the streets, throw large objects, drive dangerously the wrong way down the cities main roads. getting attacked at la friche de belle mai venue doesnt really suprise me!!

[disassembler]

I'm with Dubassy on the stage setup duties. Focus on making content and performing.

[Lucidhouse]

.
Maybe it’s a sign that the scene is maturing, a steady stream of content offers means that the whole rights issues become easier to manage. some VJ’s chose to mainly use commercially acquired content, it’s positive in the sense that the clips being shown should improve the scene, the rest depends on the VJ’s mixing skill’s , anticipation, musical ear, etc... saying this, it's still vital to create your own stuff [if you have the inclination]

Sure, screen set up, rigging is important and aesthetically vital, but it means that promoters have to fork out some more budget as this is an extra for VJ’s that are mainly booked for their on screen talent.

.

[dvjprotohippy]

To be a really great VJ requires the effort and ability to transform spaces as well as creating good content and playing it well. the best visual impact will always come from keeping a venue looking fresh and different to how it looks every other night of the week.

you can knock any of the things off my list and still be a VJ - however the best VJs / VJ groups will be actively capable in ALL of the areas.


I'll have to say that I was doing it on my own in the begining, doing all my own content, hanging screens and the like, but it got too much for me to come out early, figure out a setup, hang screens, position projectors, etc., as well as too much to handle running everything, multiple cameras/players/effects/etc, that I got myself a partner. Someone to share some of the work and creative side, and it has never been better. I would have to say that we are capable in all the things being listed, and then some. We don't specifically use our just our own content all night, I mean we do use our own content, and it usually runs all night, but in the meantime we are mixing in other content from other vj's, movies/animes/tv, the live cameras themselves, and whatever else we can throw in that night...playstations seem to rock it pretty well.....Anyways, what I am getting at is that we have to play for a variety of people, anyone from the Wutang Clan, to Dieselboy, to some local punk band or whatever, we have done graphics for lots of people, and doing graphics on the fly doesn't always work out, and you don't always have time to make custom content before a show, especially with only a few hours notice sometimes. I wouldn't knock vj's that only used other peoples content, I would just say that they are nothing special, just like a dj that only buys records, but never produces his own songs, they may be great at mixing other peoples things, but not really creative, or willing to do some of the work on their own. Plus some people are really hard on themselves, not realizing that it doesn't take some completely sophisticated 3D CGI to make some one go "wow man, that's really cool....." Often times it something that you did that was very simple instead, like putting them on the screen and doing some effects.........I know from experience that playing sometimes from 4-10 hours, you just can't do all the content yourself, you wanna take a break or something, gotta use a bathroom and such, and so it is easy to pop in a DVD that was made by someone, or something like that. I think that vj's should really strive to make content of their own, but there are tons of clips/loops/etc. out there that you really wouldn't have to at all.......

[holly]

I think what slows down sales of clips and ready-to-eat dvds is that there is no single store that sells multi-label, multi-source clips/loops/discs. In otherwords there is no non-denominational "VJstore.com" to go to to browse, compare, and purchase. If you want clips you have to google and google some more, or at the very least troll through your own bookmarks for a day. Having no common "store" is worse than not having a common format (dvd v downloads), imo.

Another issue is mixed vs raw loops. Most visuals dvds have a soundtrack, putting them in a potentially different (consumer) market which might be a turnoff for VJs who (my guess) would rather have raw elements to mix and affect.

I don't know whether a dvd vs download schizm has ever emerged. Probably too early to tell. The DVDJs have not been scooped up by the scene (that I've seen), but any VJ with a mixer can play any dvd old school and work it to the beats....

On the otherhand, from my observation VJs who play from loops/clips don't seem to be paying for them.... I see a lot of Prellinger, a few movie rips, quite a bit of CNN/tv, but mostly self-shot or scanned photos/drawings.... Maybe it's my local art scene but I'm not recognizing a lot of clip collections, are people who follow trance seeing them?

The question isn't whether you are allowed to use clip collections, but who is paying for them? Are they selling? Is there a silent majority that buys content? Or is it a scene in search of a product to sell?

[trashedvideo]

In otherwords there is no non-denominational "VJstore.com" to go to to browse, compare, and purchase.

For the last 2 weeks i have been working on my new online store
for visual jocks. (hope to be open soon)
called VJMall (the name is based on Mac Mall, Pc Mall).
i got the idea from visiting dj shops online and look at their video section, it made me sick, so i said i am going to do it make a vj one stop tool shop

trashed video tv

[fata alex]

That is a really great idea.
And would you be selling your own content, or acting as a distributor for others as well, so we can all send you our clips and you sell them for us?
DL or DVD?

[trashedvideo]

i will be distributor for others( i like to promote artist work), the way i see this shop is like a record store but full of video.
people can pick clip singles to design their own dvd of clips they like.
now the next thing to think about is price.
one thing i would like to do is keep the price downs as much as possable
this is for the gear.

? fata alex
how much would you charge for your content? (about)

[littlecatalyst]

how much would you charge for your content? (about)

http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/library/news/images/nr20050809.jpg

[fata alex]

I haven't really given it much though before, i think, for me its not about the money, its about the VJ thats using my clips acknowledging (to himself or others, not a visible credit while performing) that i made the clip, e.g. its not just another clip he/she downloaded from somewhere random. So really i guess a token fee to reflect the work i put in to make it (i make abstract 8mm films by affecting the films surface with various tools) and then obviously there would have to be a percentage the distributor puts on it.

One of the issues is could you have full DV quality downloadable clips becuase the thought of people seeing/using my stuff at low quality really bums me out.

[Hambone]

Make your own content! Unless you're got a sit-down captive audience, it's only support of the music anyway. IMO, canned content is the VJ equivalent of DTP clip art, which I've always hated.

The programs have never been easier to use, and with cheap camcorders, open source content, on-line tutorials, manuals, easily modified presets, and forums, anyone can do it, and once you've made templates, they're easy to modify into new graphics.

Also, using your VJ app to modify your clips can multiply their use. I do a lot of my dancy-style and visualizer graphics in shades of red, and use Core Image Hue with Ableton Live CC clips to color them up to complement the lighting.

[Anyone]

before I reply Hambone, let me say I do VJ with 100% my own content,
many times because my bigger gigs are broadcasted
and I want to avoid the ensuing licencing minefield...

but in principle I'm all for using material that is "known by the audience"
because it creates a different impact.

most of the times, DJs get a positive reaction from audiences
because they are playing a hit, a tune ththe audience have heard before,
the audience never reacts this way to music never heard before.

in a DJ context, familiarity is more important than originality.

AFAIK, you will get the same reaction when playing a "visual hit"
but at the moment there are almost no VJ produced visual hits,
so to get this effect, you must tap into the film genre,
which people like DJ Yoda are doing at the moment...

.

[Hambone]

I agree. That's why I don't DJ my own material. I only play popular tracks people know, even though I hate some of them! Familiarity is paramount in music.

Video, like lighting, supports the music in a dancing/socializing environment. As such, familiarity isn't an issue. IMO, video is not intended to be stared it, unless it's a sit-down style event, or perhaps a concert backdrop.

[sleepytom]

Yeah there are two seperate issues here - the "Visual Hit" factor as oli calls it of using a very recognisable sample from a film or TV ("I really liked the way you had C3PO dancing to the beat") is a very strong argument for sampling.

the other factor is the "stock footage" factor - in that unless your very rich and have a lot of time you simply can't travel the world with high quality camera equipment shooting every shot that you might want to use. Even if you were able to do this its extreamly unlikley that you'd also have the time to become really good at 3D animation. So for a varied and interesting VJ set it is necessery to use some footage that is not 100% self created.

all vjs need to develop their content production skills even if only to be able to reformat and post produce others footage so its suitable for VJing with.

[Motionreactor]

Hambone mentioned that he dislikes 'canned content' is it that everyone else also has access to these visuals and they are not unique to just one vj? I'm sure there are other reasons aswell...

Maybe it's time for content producers to offer exclusive rights content? this is probably impractical though because of the cost factor.

[Anyone]

"visual hits" won't be possible with exclusive content.
only with content that everyone is playing,
that is seen on TV, online, etc.

[Motionreactor]

yeh that is true, but what do people think anyway?

[Hambone]

I don't understand the "visual hits" concept. Could you explain?

Again, IMO, video (at least in a DJ/club/concert/festival/etc environment) is like lighting. It's support. I'm all for quality VJing and incorporating visuals into more and more areas, but it can't be forced to the same level as the music.

I think choreography of the music, lighting, and video (synergy!) is more important in creating a better immersive experience.

[SteveG]

"Visual hits"..obviously will never compare with the musical hits/tunes on scale. Play a venue or club event often enough you get to now the clips people enjoy and you show on a monthly/weekly basis as you can see the enjoyment these give = "visual hit"

[Anyone]

yes what sjg said works...

one thing I did, myself, was to film the DJ's girlfriend,
where I had a residency, she was always there and a social butterfly.

when I put her on the screen, everyone raised their hands at me, cheering.
I was surprised myself... (she sort of became a visual mascott)

[jimwop]

Thats very strange. "visual hits". The concept is interesting. I don't think that video can ever have the same effect a music anthem can have. Purely because it doesn't stimulate your brain as much. people go to clubs to dance to music. you can't dance to a visual. Visuals, fundamentally, are a moving backdrop. visuals don't interract with the audience in the same dynamic way realy loud music does.
If every tune had a music video produced to go with it and they were distributed to vj's that would be interesting.

[Kyle]

Visual stimuli is just as powerful as auditory stimuli. I think your mistaken about visuals and the ability to stimulate the brain. Havent you ever seen anything that just made you think or feel a certain way? Perhaps a movie that made you laugh because the actor did something funny, or an intense car chase that kept your eyes glued to the screen. Granted some visuals are eyecandy and nothing more just like some music track is just the same old song and doesnt motivate me in the least bit....but there are powerful images, video, and animations out there. You just have to look for them or create them yourself.

[gnomatron]

Set/screen design is all very good if your given the budget, invited to give your opinions and ideas at the planning stage or are lucky enough to own the gear to do the install. I think most VJ's will have to accept what the promoters and events supply, a normal screen hanging from the wall or ceiling, position above, behind or on each side of the stage or booth. I've never had the oportunity to do this as yet but would like to get more creative, unfortunately I don't own a production company:( Those who do get the chance of this are very lucky to be involved.

tsk!
go to your local fabric shop and buy some white material, now you can make weird and wonderful screens wherever you can hang it, in whatever shape you can make from it. Look at where you can point the beamer(s) - they can usually shift. Just use your imagination, you don't need expensive professional gear, just good ideas, ingenuity, lots of gaffer tape, and a bit of diy skill.

[SteveG]

tsk!
go to your local fabric shop and buy some white material, now you can make weird and wonderful screens wherever you can hang it, in whatever shape you can make from it. Look at where you can point the beamer(s) - they can usually shift. Just use your imagination, you don't need expensive professional gear, just good ideas, ingenuity, lots of gaffer tape, and a bit of diy skill.

Sorry gnomatron, the gigs I usually play are allready set up by the time I arrive or I'm in clubs with the set up allready installed. Being booked for some events, the promoters have allready discussed and planned what they want and have arranged the install. If I'm ever invited to get involved then I shall....I do own screens and even some white material;)

www.vjsteveg.com

[Hambone]

Visual stimuli is just as powerful as auditory stimuli.

If you're sitting down and watching it like a movie, I absolutely agree.

[jimwop]

yes i have seen things that make me feel and think a certain way in different contexts. but i have to say in a club environment I have never seen any visuals that stimulate me more that the music im hearing does. I have never really been blown away by any visuals. I have been blown away by film, convensional visual art, and even some things on tv.

[evomedia]

It will get there, as you say, films, visual art and tv manage to evoke emotion through visual stimulous, although I think a great deal of that is to do with them using audio to complement the imagery. AV probably has the best chance of linking everything together to spark an emotive response.

I don't doubt that visuals are capable of it to a degree, the main problem is that club music itself is generally too light and repetive for strong narrative or emotional responses, maybe other genres that are darker or more of a journey probably have a better chance.. But always like to be proved wrong.

The other factor is largely the club DJ, unless they work closely with a VJ then chances are the music will be good to dance to but prove to have little scope for visually expressive journeys. After all if you watch your clips without audio they tend to feel very flat compared to playing them with well suited audio. A clip can change depending on what you play them too. Same as the group the 'cinematic orchestra' rescoring a monkies movie with a dark soundtrack and finding the feel totally changes.

AV is the best way to proved true stimulation as you get a good chance to pace the visuals for maximum impact and message.

[annaponda]

I think the mistake is to judge audio and visual in isolation. Visual loop or VJ loop is not meant to be viewd by it's self. In terms of this discussion audio visuals co exists together and it's the sum of these that enhance the mood. Unimaginative music with great visuals = an average audio visual experience. [visa versa]

The statement that music is of more importance in a club is just so obvious...but times are changing and people go out expecting to also be intertained visualy. Looking at a sweating DJ twidling knobs just doesnt do it any more, even if they're pretty. Anyone notice how many sexy female DJ's are apeering on the scene lately? Tell me this has nothing to do with enhancing visual pleasure.

So if you had a dreadfull choice wich of your senses would you prefer to lose... sight or sound?

[deepvisual]

I think the influence of visuals depends what mood you are in....Lysergic moods tend to enhance the visual side somewhat.. and just because you aren't feeling that way doesn't mean someone else isn't... you might bend someones tiny mind without even realising it.

[Motionreactor]

For me, sound is present across the whole space of a club. Visuals generally aren't. Eventually when we have very complex environments where practically every surface is a screen / projection then the experience, partly due to immersion and physical scale, will be extremely powerful. Surely this would be likely to trigger strong emotive experiences or perpectual sensations as the whole environment as you thought you knew it just shifts and warps as one. That will be really cool. I can't wait for video wallpaper types of technology and OLED goodness.

[akira_k]

"visual hits" won't be possible with exclusive content.
I beg to differ, and my opinion comes out of personal experience.
Many of the local VJs here, me included, have developed "visual hits" that people both recognize as of the VJ's property and as something they enjoy a lot. And it's good that only the VJ that created them plays them, it sort of creates a reduced kind of "following". Obviously if someone else plays the same clip they would recognize it and its owner, but I don't find it counterproductive that the content is exclusive to the creator or certain VJ.

It's like dubplates, you know? ;)

[fata alex]

i totally agree that until we have completely immersive environments the visuals will always be second fiddle to the music. not even the most elaborate screen setups today can compete with the way the sound from a big rig just moves through you, its physically affecting, and until the visuals become your visual environment, in the same way that the music becomes your auditory environment, then they will remain just something to look at (except for those particularly immersed in their own journeys).
Makes me start to wonder if just giving everyone one of those video headsets would be the most effective way, would be like a blind ball, everyone dancing like no-ones watching!

[AndresC4]

i think akira is right, fucking akira make me change my mind about vjing with my own material :P .
anyone can crop a piece of a chemical brother video, but only you can use you own character/clips,,, people can recognize a clip, and if only you have the clip, people can recognize the vj, and you can be superfamous and sign autographs and a drive a bmw across miami beach (??) :P

I think the mistake is to judge audio and visual in isolation. Visual loop or VJ loop is not meant to be viewd by it's self. In terms of this discussion audio visuals co exists together and it's the sum of these that enhance the mood.

100% Agree

[akira_k]

i think akira is right, fucking akira make me change my mind about vjing with my own material :P .
Hey don't curse me, yuo know I was right ;p

I'll give you a ride on my Porsche 911 Carrera 4 when you come to Buenos Aires
(wtf, i wish ;p)

[dvjprotohippy]

Honestly, I have to say that Visuals play a big part in clubs and other environments. Here we have a weekly event that we started about 6 months ago, that has exploded because we are the only place in town that has both audio and visual stimuli. People tend to come back to see what we will do next, not what songs the dj's are playing that night, and so in that respect, visuals are the driving force there. I realize that is not always the case, and unfortunately the club owner doesn't fully understand that either. We have to change our setup constantly because of changes that they make to the club and such, but we have the ability and willingness to do it. I have not run into a single place where everything was already setup for us. Every event/club that we have ever gone to, we had to set the screens and set everything up on our own. I am pretty thankful for that as I don't have to deal with some promoter that has his head up his ass and insists on something that is just shite, though I have been to events where other Visual Artists got screwed that way........ We try for the video wallpaper route, using as much available space that we can, but sometimes it just works out to a few screens hung by the "act" ( we do rock/hip hop bands as well, and so it is not always the best to try and do anything outside of the stage itself...Wu-Tang was the most fun that I have had at a hip hop event so far....) I will have to say that at this point, especially in the States, that Music is the driving factor for people to come out. If the music sucks, they are not gonna stick around to see the visuals. That also makes it hard to charge what you feel that you are worth, as most places are not in the habit of having a visual artist there, so the budget usually isn't there for any sort of visual artist, hopefully we can change all that!!

[annaponda]

I think people under estimate how many eyes are directed towards the screens in a night club or festival.
After all clubers mostly face towards the stage and sound, so theres a lot of eyeballs looking.
Sure sound permiates everywhere...but sometimes If you feel like a chat you can't even hear youself.
So the cool thing aboute visuals is that you can turn away and look somewhere else, this makes it more positive for me as the audience can chose for themselves when and if they want to look. And the experience is inriched.