VJ's works in art galery ?!! [Archive]

Kriel

26th May 2006, 01:23 AM

Hiya

There are quite a few people doing this. First and foremost to my mind (in terms of art credentials and approach) is Mark Amerika.

Gerald van der Kaap has had a major exhibition in the Stedelijk (and seems largely ignored in the VJ world).

Johnny Dekam is quite an important figure in the fine arts arena -- not only for his work with NATO and his creation of Vidvox, but also for his performances.

Finally, do a search for "expanded cinema" on Google. This is the term typically used in the fine arts world for VJing. Andrea Juno coined the term (I believe), and is your main writer on the subject.

There are also many of the usual suspects doing crossover from clubland, which I'll leave to others to post.

kx

--

www.kriel.tv

St.art Project

26th May 2006, 10:44 AM

Gerald van der Kaap.. is a legend... his massive juke box project is true interactive VJ'in...

I'm working on system that watches the dance floor with a motion dector and plays Visual loops based on people dancing...

the audience influnces the visuals..

I know this is somewhat cutting out the middle man.. but for a one off experiment it should be quite cool...

Gerald van der Kaap is one of my heros...so wish i could make it out to see his work...

Andy

deepvisual

26th May 2006, 11:09 AM

light surgeons are currently on show until august in a london museum..

http://www.domestic-archaeology.com/page.php?section=1&page=8

St.art Project

26th May 2006, 11:57 AM

Might Have to check that out next week when i'm down there.

dansmachine

26th May 2006, 01:07 PM

I've had installations in various galleries and one museum-exhibition so far: Dansmachine3.1 at the Rijksmuseum Twenthe (2003).
http://www.rijksmuseum-twenthe.nl/tentoonstelling/dansmachine.html (dutch)

I think for many VJs there will be a moment the desire for more autonomous and independant work will increase. Galleries offer the opportunity to live out that dream.

Rovastar

26th May 2006, 01:36 PM

I like art galleries, I really do, however I have always been disappointed (I used to be surprised) at the lack of digital computer generated art there. I had hoped places liek the Tate Modern would show this stuff when it first opened in a time (back when I didn't create anything)

Maybe because technology changes so quickly they never have a chance to have a sustainable installation. There will always be something "better" that the artist can make the next year with more technology knowledge. The shelf life would be low.

Maybe because all the art gallery people are so far behind the times they will never embrace new technologies/methods in their world.

Maybe it is seen as just geeky.

I don't know the answer and I would happily discuss this issue with the more arty types here over a beer.:)

However this attitude of most of the "art world" has led me to be more dismissive and critical toward them and installations. It appears that most art rather than breaking down boundaries and exploring new frontiers they conform to the old stereotypes.

True there may be a few exceptions but I hazard a guess those are not at the cutting edge of there game in a peer review and most mentioned here will do sampling not create original digital art. Shame really………

Also from another thread.

http://www.vjforums.com/showthread.php?t=14844&page=3

No, my mix sets of eclectic video aren't going to be shown in the Louvre. But neither are Rova's audiovisualization sets. That's because they're ephemereal art. My exhibited skill is as a performance artist.

St.art Project

26th May 2006, 01:43 PM

It's an online thing mainly but doing some cool work to raise the profile of digital artists and VJ's ..

http://www.rhizome.org

I'm personally interested in this kinda thing.. because as my addy kinda gives it away, i'm trying to sort out an UK based "inclusive interactive street festival" .. not something in a few galleries and venues.. but out there in public space.. connecting with Joe Bloggs and basiclly raising the profile of the art forms.

I was planning to run it this year 06.. but due to work and Uni comitments and the time needed i think it will have to wait till next summer now...07

Imagine big screens in squares all over the UK.. interactive works... and events, club nights... etc. going on over the space of one weekend and it all being mainly free...

A lot of work to be done... but if there's a will there's a way... anyone else wanna join in the dream???

pardon my rushed typing and typo's

Andy

koyote

27th May 2006, 05:04 AM

I'm an artist working in Oakland. My partner and I both do fine art (painting/sculpture/glass etc), showing traditional works nationally (US). I've also been involved in media arts since the 80's, and worked for several years at the Center for New Television in Chicago.

While we do some club oriented gigs, most of our video work focuses on stuff that is, erm, more welcomed in alternative/raw art spaces. We also do installational works that incorporate a lot of processed video.

I like the flexibility afforded by the software tools or image manipulation designed for VJ use. I also find the discussions here useful.

VJing and club shows can take a lot of creative energy to put together, especially when making work that is engaging to an audience. No different that way than coming at it from a gallery scene.

magiclantern

27th May 2006, 12:39 PM

I don't know much about VJing world and my questions to your community can sounds strange.
So, does any VJs work has ever been exposed in an art galery.
Is there some VJ in a video-art collection, is there some collectors or aesthetic specialists interested by your researchs. I'm looking for all infos about cross over: VJ/contemporary art world. Thanks for your help.
(and maybe, am I in the best place on the site to ask this help? :confused: )

hello....i'm pretty new round here and to this VJ lark.....

my first VJ job was at an art exhibition called "dreams of ours" in leeds

i did an AV set of visuals i had made myself and tunes i'd created.....that really gave me the bug to do it more and now seem to be in demand all over the place......i do think that a lot of visuals can be "ART" for galleries too.

magiclantern

27th May 2006, 12:42 PM

St.art Project

27th May 2006, 01:56 PM

I've been working on motion dection in flash and director... so i know all about that jazz. it's not to precise at the moment though... unless ur on a black background... but it could be done if the camera was up high enough.. maybe a series of motion sensors... set up in the lighting rig..

Could right something in processing really quite quick for that kinda thing...

motion sensors taged to a computer unit which asigns loops to each node randomly and sets them off when triggered..

iconik

27th May 2006, 03:01 PM

Hi usually I?m just tourist on the site but for first time I got a info to share with the VJ?s community , I?m quite interested by the same question , so a musician friend sent me a web news few weeks ago, for a event in a French museum ( I?m art student in Toulouse, I noticed u are locate in France too ?bizz-art, from which city are u?) The article I had (in french sorry but I feel too lazy to translate all) is talking about a VJ called ?Gregory Plouy? (he?s registered on vj central but he should have another pseudo) who has apparently invited 8 musicians (8 wahhh:band: !!!) to play and on his images for a live recording on DVD, and apparently the museum had buy this DVD to had it to the video art collection, Click here for a link to a real strange music label where I?ve found this info http://eglantinerecords.free.fr/blog/ (http://eglantinerecords.free.fr/blog/) , Does anyone here had seen this perf or can tell me if it?s seeable on the web.

hookturn

29th May 2006, 05:04 AM

Bruce Fegusson has had some amazing stuff put in galleries over the yrs.

His work has featured all over the world.

I think his last art install was in LA not so long ago.

djnada

29th May 2006, 05:24 AM

I just got finished with a three month run at this gallery:

http://www.silentspacegallery.com

which featured DVDs of VJ generated work, including a bit from a NYC Eyewash from last year. Check "archives."

The collage/paintings are intended to be kind of like a VJ visual on canvas.

dougi555

4th June 2006, 02:35 PM

I don't know much about VJing world and my questions to your community can sounds strange.
So, does any VJs work has ever been exposed in an art galery.
Is there some VJ in a video-art collection, is there some collectors or aesthetic specialists interested by your researchs. I'm looking for all infos about cross over: VJ/contemporary art world. Thanks for your help.
(and maybe, am I in the best place on the site to ask this help? :confused: )

We actually played a large gig on friday night in the Perth Art College Gallery

See Flyer :http://www.teknoscape.com.au/eventguide/11536/Jigsaw_Closing_Party.html

It worked really well, we had 8 ( i think ) projectors going, well recieved...

Photos soon

alan

bizz-art

14th June 2006, 04:07 PM

Hello again VJ people and a great THANK for all these interesting answers,
I realise than somes art works you talk about are by "classics" video artists convert to VJ technologies and proceeds to show their images(Peter Greenaway is a respectfull exemple).
In fact my interest is more about the particularities of the vj'ing : live musical images reactions, free style choice, stand up watchers engaged in others actions (danse,talk,drink, ect...) so maybe u could help me to definite these particularies compared to other audiovisual shows
So, I'll try to open this question by some others :o

- Does some of u plays for a sitting audience time to time
- Does some VJs of this community invited musicians or DJ's for dates to react on their vid?o set (an answer talks 'bout it)
- Does the video mixer can be considerate like a instrument, so maybe around u there's some "virtuoses" :)
- What about non-electro musical collaboration (classical, jazz...)
- Do u usualy produced finalised works ( I mean DVD, Demo tape, web movie...)
by live mix recording or by normal post production, ...

A other great THANK for help :up:

djnada

15th June 2006, 01:29 AM

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g282/studioc/in.jpg

I am doing this show tomorrow night, to a seated audience. An AV set, visuals remixed live, all original, including original music. A film festival, where the audience comments on the work, a kind of a "workshop" atmosphere for film makers.

rko

15th June 2006, 08:03 AM

hey

yep

I have already exposed in 2 museum
Lyon(fr) museum of contemporary art. For an exhibition on art/experimental new media and video

and in Toronto at the MOCCA with Famfame for an hardcore battle exhibition

www.famefame.com (they are focused on art gallery and museum)

however www.v-atak.com

- Does some of u plays for a sitting audience time to time
- Does some VJs of this community invited musicians or DJ's for dates to react on their vid?o set (an answer talks 'bout it)
- Does the video mixer can be considerate like a instrument, so maybe around u there's some "virtuoses"
- What about non-electro musical collaboration (classical, jazz...)
- Do u usualy produced finalised works ( I mean DVD, Demo tape, web movie...)
by live mix recording or by normal post production, ...

we have different diffusion and works.
one is Vjing for stoned guys and girls who want to fuck
one other is to distort and twist mind for the arty spectator
last spam is in cinema to bend the ears and eyes of quiet cinephile sitting audiance
and DVD production for museum shops, record shops, library... to be watched in loop and forever in your appartment with your milk shake and without your closes

anyway
every place is good to be involved
but don't make confusions between art and vjing, that's totally different, it's the same if you want to compare mc donalds and the wild duck restaurant. not the same audiance !

djnada

15th June 2006, 11:47 AM

RKO, we've had endless discussions on whether or not VJing is an art or not. I tend to say that it is an art, no matter who the audience is or what the venue. I mean, if you look at the commercials on TV they are probably the highest form of art in that medium. Notice I put ""Live video art" on the poster, not VJing. More because people here have no idea what VJ is at all. When Eyewash did the Moma, that put VJing firmly in the realm of art. It's sortof a tired conversation, because how you define it does not take away from what it is. Beautiful, awesome, new, individual, etc. Peace.

rko

15th June 2006, 12:17 PM

ja wohl!

ICH VERCHSTE !

Genau genau

djnada

15th June 2006, 03:49 PM

After trying to translate I suppose that you are in agreement?

bizz-art

16th June 2006, 11:48 AM

Once upon a time, a long time ago in France :crazyeyes an "underground" artist has paint for little money an outdoor tent decoration, a friend asked it to attract audience in her exotic-erotic danse show attraction
(in concurency with the others tents like some cinematographic shows.)
What it art at this moment?? the thousands peoples admirating this old an damaged by rain and sun, pieces of a strip-tease tent, today has a master-chief of Toulouse Lautrec do not seems to doubt about it. (fuck 12 ? for the entrance ticket, it should be great art plained as it from the start of his creation... don't care its a joke).

So this little exemple to say
I think the audience, the place, the daily public sucess.. does not determinate his nature of an "artistic artefact from his time".
(I don't believe about your: "VJ'ing is not art it's totally different... not the same audience.. so do u considered yourself has a Mc Do cooker:lick: )
I also think commercial clip is different to vid?o art even if some dreams to be, i hope u mean something like "most performing efficiency forms" in the TV medias (but is it an artistic form). I feel it deeply different and I hope some are agree with this point of view.

so if VJ'ing is not an art What it is??

I'm ok whe'll not resolve the "what is art" or " what is Vj'ing art" but it doesn't tired me more than about other subject like: a "new beta version video codec maybe soon available" for exemple.

thanks for this point of views and infos, peace (obviously):nod:

fata alex

16th June 2006, 12:45 PM

lot of well made points, we recently put on an exhibition of film and video installations and did a bit of VJing (although we called it a 'performace film') at the private view which was to a sit down audience, it was well received, but theres a lot more pressure as you know everyones watching as opposed to being wasted and just glancing at the screens while dancing which is the case in clubs.
I can't say that VJing IS art, but i don't think anyone can say that it ISN'T. And although it and the related areas have been debated for ages, i have to agree that it beats new codec betas. :nod:

if i can work it out i'll post some pics from the exhibition/performance.

alex.

djnada

16th June 2006, 02:49 PM

Bizz - are you saying at the same time that sideshow can be art, but sideshow commercials on tv cannot?

I, for one, am completely amazed at the incredible visuals that come out of the commercials these days. Some of the commercials are much more interesting than the programming! - IMHO

bizz-art

17th June 2006, 12:31 PM

Hello, I'm happy That you've open this door I,ve didn't locked.

It's something to explain I'll try to make it clear.and has short has possible.

during hundreds year whe can considerate art like a kind of forms of "commercial clips" to promote religions, kings, richs persons, political leaders, grec classic beauty, the human beeing, revolutions, socials attitudes.... and so on...

But?

At the cross of 19 and 20th centuries, a generation of artist has decided (Toulouse Lautrec, the particular exemples I've choose is from this global movement) (the "nouvelle vague" has adopted a kind of same attitude concerning the cin?ma) it was time in history of art to declare the "independance" of the artist to choose his subject connected to his own inspiration and deep feelings. I think it's difficult to considerated this images revolution has an unhappened thing,( just like others numerous revolutions from this period and from the following periods)
And this situation is still present in today world of art, So I have some difficulties to imagine than in today's world an artist can feel so deeply inspirate by a soda new taste, or a new stinky 4wd this leather seats.

We can found a lot of artists participate time to time to commercials productions or to others propanganda.
but I think, in that case they didn't considers themselves in an "artistic production action" I mean a total freedom to the subject,
but " in an artisanal attitude" i mean a use of their practicals singularities and aptitudes ( technical, aesthetical, knowhow, ...), sold to an unchoose subject like in the good oooooold times.

The VJ'ing generation will be or should already be conscient about these questions to permit to this media to realise is potential to make is own positive aesthetique revolution in the domain of moving images (i would prefer with not to much commercials clips)!

so I ignore what is IMHO butI hope it's still friendly ;).

Please, more infos about the originals subjects are welcome !!! THANKS VJ people. peace!

bizz-art

17th June 2006, 12:33 PM

Hello, I'm happy That you've open this door I,ve didn't locked.

It's something to explain I'll try to make it clear.and has short has possible.

during hundreds year whe can considerate art like a kind of forms of "commercial clips" to promote religions, kings, richs persons, political leaders, grec classic beauty, the human beeing, revolutions, socials attitudes.... and so on...

But?

At the cross of 19 and 20th centuries, a generation of artist has decided (Toulouse Lautrec, the particular exemple I've choose is from this global movement) (the "nouvelle vague" has adopted a kind of same attitude concerning the cin?ma) it was time in history of art to declare the "independance" of the artist to choose his subject connected to his own inspiration and deep feelings. I think it's difficult to considerated this images revolution has an unhappened thing,( just like others numerous revolutions from this period and from the following periods)
And this situation is still present in today world of art, So I have some difficulties to imagine than in today's world an artist can feel so deeply inspirate by a soda new taste, or a new stinky 4wd this leather seats.

We can found a lot of artists participate time to time to commercials productions or to others propanganda.
but I think, in that case they didn't considers themselves in an "artistic production action" I mean a total freedom to the subject,
but " in an artisanal attitude" i mean a use of their practicals singularities and aptitudes ( technical, aesthetical, knowhow, ...), sold to an unchoose subject like in the good oooooold times.

The VJ'ing generation will be or should already be conscient about these sort of questions to permit to this media to realise is potential to make is own positive aesthetique revolution in the domain of moving images (i would prefer with not to much commercials)!

so I ignore what is IMHO butI hope it's still friendly ;).

Please, more infos about the originals subjects are welcome !!! THANKS VJ people. peace!

djnada

17th June 2006, 06:07 PM

I agree with you on this one. I guess that it is unfortunate that the creativity of artists is so quickly commodified. A "society of the spectacle," no?

fata alex

20th June 2006, 11:31 AM

Indeed, that division has to be recognised, and its a good way of putting it artist vs. artisan, thats what it comes down to, in this day an age, if you're doing it for yourself how you want then there is an artistic motivation, if you're meeting a brief then you're lending your skills for someone else's (maybe artistic) (probably) commercial ends. That's not to say that there is no room for artistic flare etc. when doing a commercial project, but the core thinking is fundamentally different. what are the means? what are the ends?
I totally agree with DJNada that theres much more interesting work coming from commercials than from a lot of the actual programs, but you still need to seperate the technical creativity that comes from that with the entirely souless intentions that motivate it.

Guy Debord rocks! Society of the Spectacle is an amazing film.

Alex

bizz-art

14th July 2006, 01:06 PM

Hello again after long time, for sure "La soci?t? du spectacle" from Guy Debord a french philosopher is a major and quite easy and not borring book to read, to definite much clearly this kind of question about commercials and art; unfortunatly I ve never seen the movie (where can I found it on web?). So Does the Vj's community, have a kind of global definition or conscience of the social power than this medium is able.
In fact all the people present on this site representant some hundred thousands people in audience influenced more or less by the vjs images.
That is the best influence to have on these thousand minds. DO you think
than vj'ing will kill the cinema in the future. I think about it has a possibilitie. Peace:hippy:

videoswitchboard

14th July 2006, 01:42 PM

Hi Bizz-art,

Debord's writings are referenced in this piece by american collective DJ Rabbi (including Mark Amerika (http://www.markamerika.com/))

on the Society of Spectacle (http://www.archive.org/details/MACH04_26_SoS) mix which is freely downloadable on archive.org and featured on the Machinista dvd (http://www.machinista.org.uk/dvd/)

enjoy,

dav

fata alex

17th July 2006, 10:23 AM

evomedia

17th July 2006, 11:24 AM

I certainly hope that to a large extent VJing, or other more expressive moving image mediums will take over from conventional cinema. I think its a stagnant art form for the most part that hasn't evolved along with its comparable brothers over the last century. It needs to be less fixed on its own rules and become more free to explore its own potential. obviously there are many directors over the decades that have doen their part toward that goal, but it all seems pointless now that without going to an arts cinema you cant see anything but re-makes, sequals and adaptations - moving image has soo much more to offer society than that, and i think/hope that VJs will be a key part of this development over the next decade or so.

I can see what your saying, but VJing is not generally the same as cinema and will never replace it, cinema is more conventional storytelling, whereas Vjing is much more abstract generally. Most visuals lack narative and trying keep one for 2 hours in a visuals format is a challenge.

For us as content providers, we are generally outspoken as to the negatives of cinema, but budgets, production and scripts of film proportions will not fall in the laps of Vj's for a very long time.

My main problem with a suggestion that VJing could or would replace cinema, is that I doubt most film goers want cinema in a VJ format, its great for clubs bands or to complement a film score, but would I want to sit in a seat for 2 hours watching a set over say a well rounded, well scripted bit of cinema.

Vj's create video to work with audio as the primary concern, whereas cinema creates a narrative then creates a soundtrack to complement its story and pace. I'm not saying Vj's can't handle narrative, but we are not generally practiced in keeping a story paced over long periods of time.

Another major factor is funding and opportunity, the film industry is already an immensely difficult arena to get a project off the ground, experimental cinema even more so, backers are essentially never going to fund an untried format, especially when your talking about VJ's who have Zero commercial experience in traditional cinema. We may think we can handle it, but persuading a third party of that is asking too much..

What I think is more likely is that traditional cinema will become a outlet for VJ's who have produced music videos, then are offered the chance directing.

However I have no crystal ball and offer no proficy.