Cautionary Tale: VJing for "perceived Superstar DJ" like Oakenfold and Sasha

[soulvisuals]

Case in point:

It is not necessarily the DJs that pose problems, but the tremendous amount of ego, arrogance and control of those people who work for them. ie. managers and their sound technicians.

Story one:

Gig May 13,2006 Babyface Club Beijing, China Paul Oakenfold.

Paul's Management insists that Paul's DVD be played throughout his entire set, eventhough the local promoter has specifically hired VJ Shadow to perform her visuals.

direct quote from Paul's management "When we contract shows we make it conditional that pauls visuals are adequately represented... and that includes keeping wannabe VJ's away from them."

Looks like DJs have crossed the line. Paul the DVDJ?

Story Two:

Sasha Show Shanghai Nov 20 2004

sound technician for Sasha steps into a discussion concerning placement of a VJ booth.
The booth is across the from the dj approximately 40' away.
The VJ booth is to also provide space for Lighting techician, Laser technician, DV filming and sound control.
The VJ booth however is also partially blocking a set of stairways that were previously to be used for VIP's coming from the balcony. This is not a fire hazard, since the stairwells can still be used and there are also elevators and other stairwells to be used.

The Sound Technician unknowningly steps into the discussion and calls the size of the VJ Booth a "Monstrosity". The Sound Tech does not know the booth is for many techs and to also provide a platform for the projector that is to project onto the dj booth screen. He is then somehow able to convince the promoter to dismantle the VJ booth and split it in two.

Result. no projector for Sasha on his booth. Being distracted from his real job, Sasha's soundtech fumbles Sasha's laptop connection for Ableton.
Sasha's laptop crashes 5mins into his set.

The visuals show still goes on and we put on a solid visual and laser show.Though the booth has become so small that some think it is a booth for selling water.


Lessons learned:

More meetings and discussion with DJs on the specifics of the show.

Peace,

Raven

[spaceman]

well, i've worked with both of them, and did whatever i wanted and nobody ever came to tell me anything....

[alangeering]

It sounds like it's the entourage rather than the DJs that are the problem.

[deepvisual]

well, if a supastar DJ has spent ( or should I say wasted?) a lot of money having a DVD made he is going to want to play it... I wonder why he didn:t go all the way and have a CD made too while he was at it??? ha ha.

as for the sound engineer being a dick, well I have to ask what a DJ is doing having their own sound engineer? no wonder he is sticking his nose in, there is f*ck all else for him to do.

[soulvisuals]

No Doubt we are entering an era where the DJ is definately trying to assert their control on the visuals. Paul's Manager has admittedly said that Paul spends $200,000 per year making videos. Paul is entitled to play his DVD. I just hope he or his manager in the future does not ask VJs to stand there looking like a dick of a DVD technician. I mean they have no clue what the artform of VJing is really about. Perhaps DJs should just play a premixed CD and stand in front of their decks jumping around and pretending to mix. Which is what alot of DJs may actually do.

The "DVDJ"= is the dj who does not mix visuals live, but plays a premade visual set from a DVD.

The dangers of a DVDJ is that they forget about the immediacy of the moment in playing the music and visuals for the crowd.

There are images and sounds that are continously reinvented when they are explored through programs such as arkaos and ableton. I just don't want to see DJing or VJing become a lazy complacent artform of playing a premade cd or dvd.

The main point of this posting is showcasing how DJs and their associates knowingly or unknowingly try to mutate the artform of VJing into some retarded bastard cousin.

DJs who think playing a DVD is fine are DVDJs = Wannabe VJ

Personally, I despise the term VJ, I think we should just use the term
VA for Video Artist.

[fALk]

they all have egos. Hell lets has the visuals turned off frequentely and Paul van Dyk gets on ones nerve when its a tick to bright. A fellow VJ doing a set with me two weeks ago for PvD just did not want to believe me (I did a couple of shows and know how he ticks) that his bright white visuals where too bright - for once I had to agree with the DJ that this is unaccaptable and destroying the atmosphere in the mighty hall. He got mad and angry at me and made it even brighter. took the management two minutes to come up to me and say "hey you know paul doesn?t like it bright" and I had to reply that this gig is not under my control. (and I do like dark clubs too and create my visuals accordingly) Manager to other VJ - VJ arrogant not accepting any critique (which was really in place and not just a "DJ attitute) 5 minutes later the promoter came and had the video switched off completely.
People like this are get booked one year in advanced they don?t need to argue they just say "Hey if you don?t comply with us you can never book us again" the promoter shaking in its pants do everything to please THEM because they could always get another VJ - this will not change with gigs where its all about money no matter what you do you will have the shorter stick in the end of the day and that with the name change has been suggested before everyone agreed on the misleading "VJ" term and it didn?t work back then and rebranding this CLUB based artform seems close to impossible now - as impossible to change anything to the status of our work/art/experiment.
For those seeking advice playing with the "stars". Don?t bother when they want you to turn off your stuff or request any change - its not personal they might not even have looked - take your money and take a break. Everyone suggesting to "talk to them before the gig" - if you don?t know them well forget about it. Everyone wants to talk to them before the gig - everyone has an important thing to say to them and they are annoyed and don?t want to talk. Good thing is to go to a meeting when they look at the venue - mostly that is done a day or week or two before the gig and mostly the management of the star is present as well and then ask them about the problems the star has with video then you know it and can mentally prepare for it. Its not your club its mostly not your party and you are an employee for the promoter. If you don?t like this then do your own club your own party and be your own promoter but don?t expect much stars to turn up (for good I guess ;) - the good thing is that you can create your own stars if you wish to do so or just carry the torch of the underground club scene that seems to be almost lost in too many mainstream raves - then again that might not pay for your bills.....

fALk

[soulvisuals]

Mixing visuals is in deep trouble if we treat it like a rent paying job.
We then become a lowly employee scared of losing the job cause it is our only way to pay rent.

We are then under the control of others to tell us that our job is to press play and stop on a DVD.

In essence we have become a machine.

How brilliant is that?

By the way I have seen new ipod mixers from numark. www.numark.com (vjing from the djs perspective)

Perhaps I will setup a show and promote it as "DJ IPod" for 100quid
I will then just have an IPod sitting on the table with a premix of all the latest dance tracks.

Yes, that will be a most brilliant show.

[kommy]

big superstar djs SHOULD have their own visuals, even if its just a smooth background dvd. as a paying audience member you want to get all their vibe/show. and if i was djing i would rather have no visuals then bad visuals, and i'm not saying the original poster is a bad vj, but 80% of the vjs i've seen i was thoroughly unimpressed with. bad visuals that don't follow the music exactly, will actually diminish the power of the music; audio and video are both vibrations and if they are not in harmony they create noise or disharmony. i'm all for freestyle vjing for lesser acts (especially if the vj is good).
one time me and another board member here were doing visuals for a "group" that opened for dj krush, and we were asked if we wanted to stay on and do visuals for krush's performance, but i didn't want to, because i didn't want to impose my style on top of krush's show - he needed his own visual look in my opinion. and yes i've done visuals for many of the biggest djs and thought it was quite good, but as i mature in this game i realize the importance of unique visuals. really the solution is that those superstar djs should travel with their own vj.

[Anyone]

Kommy speaks the truth.

instead of complaining you have to play a DVD,
get working and networking to get the job producing Oakey's next DVD.

not to condone drug use,
but I've had a few times my trip come right down
because of bad visuals
(don't worry I closed my eyes and went strait back up)

VJs are like drummers, you only notice them when they're out of synch.

[deepvisual]

Perhaps DJs should just play a premixed CD and stand in front of their decks jumping around and pretending to mix. Which is what alot of DJs may actually do.


I have seen this with my own eyes - A UK DJ, well known for his GOLD teeth, turned up, popped in a CD and then stood around pretending to mix.

if only we could all just pop down woolworths and buy a few DVDs - but thats the difference isn't it.... they are highly respected as artists because they play someone else's records.
Maybe ecstasy is more mind bending than we realised? How else could a disk jockey be elevated to the same status as bob dylan or jimi hendrix. ( showing my age here)

Ok so how many VJs have had the DJ tell them what visuals to show and smiled and told the DJ what record to play next???
I've seen this happen a couple of times- each time it was well deserved and worth it

[soulvisuals]

Why would I want to produce a DVD for Oakenfold and have him take credit for my work.

His idea of visuals is to just carry a DVD to his sets instead of hiring a VJ.

The experience of His tour manager insisting my partner VJ Shadow play his DVD is first that I have ever encountered of a DJ imposing their visuals on the set of a VJ. In this type of situation I would opt to just step aside and not be involved in a gig such as that.

I have been developing my own music and visuals using ableton and arkaos for the last few years now. So why would I be producing material for DJs to take credit for.

DJs are used to taking a lot of credit for tracks that composers have spent a tremendous amount of time making.
The DJ deceiding to play a DVD for visuals is just another way of taking credit for things they did not make.

[deepvisual]

VJs are like drummers, you only notice them when they're out of synch.


this is only half the story..

you also notice them when they are good

[SteveG]

In the recent past I've used visual content from Tiesto, PVD and Anjunabeats. All 3 DVD's were very high quality content and help brand the DJ just the same as a club. Some come as short mixes others as loops specifically for VJ's to use. None of them had any problems with me mixing my usual content with theirs as even they realise that 3 hrs of their branding visuals would bore the clubbers to death and do themselves or the clubs no favours. A few of the managers will request a demo from you prior to them giving permission to mix with their content which I think is fair enough.
As far as the DVDJ goes...I prefer the term DVJ, it's not a case of turning up and sticking a DVD in. You must remember the hours of work that has been put into that DVD and the content may be changed for that tune after a few performances or perhaps only one. The DVJ still had to organise his set both musically and visually so it flows, beat match and ensure the visuals mix well also.
The more AV artists we can get into main stream club land the better.

[thomase]

just my two cents:
I also had parties the other way round where I was hired to mix visuals and have prerecorded cd mixes.
AND speaking of prerecorded mixes: half of the loveparade was premade on DAT-tape cause the djs were scared that their vinyl would jump on the trucks...

[Anyone]

Why would I want to produce a DVD for Oakenfold

good question....

Paul's Manager has admittedly said that Paul spends $200,000 per year making videos.

good answer !!!


VJs entrepreneurship (http://www.vjforums.com/showthread.php?t=16065)

[fALk]

Gosh times change kommy any1 and me agreeing :cheers:

Yes they are in the need of their own visuals - in case of mr van dyk he is one of those perfectionists and if something is just not going right he calls it off - if I were in his position i might even do the same.

as for souVl: you seem not to be very long in the biz. its the way it works. I have absolutely given up the fight on the spot and rather do MY thing on the small events where everything still has vibes beyond money also I am slowly withdrawing from VJing in the main sense all together because of this (there is no fight you can win there!) I refuse to play for DJ Hell (and I have been in the position a couple of times to say just no) because he has no case and is just a snob trying to steer his powerarrogance at someone with less power- with PvD its different and the management is really nice and understanding and listening so I do the occasional gig when they ask. SoulV I encourage you to take a look at the eycandy mailing list archive from a couple years back or the discussion here on the board and you will find me - and I would even say kommy - on your side of the fence standing up as artist presenting art. the hard reality is that the bigger the gig the more you are the small - (some exceptions of course) the worker - flat fee for bringing up something that rythms to the music and blends into the atmosphere. I am not telling you to stop the fight but I must tell you that you might be fairly dissapointed over the long run with such an attitude and think you should channel your creative energy into something more usefull - like making your own events centered around visuals rather then music or bringing the artform forward with some kickass interesting visual concepts.

And to any1: do you think that dropping from a trip because of bad visuals only happens to us VJs or to the general audience as well? Most of the time I think 95% of the audience just does not care at all whats on the screen no matter how bad it is while I can?t stay and mostly leave the party or at least the room.

[vjair]

Realy, i think its down to the main artist that people are coming to see, in this case the dj,and the promoter/organiser of the event to decide, but it should preferably be agreed before the event. I do agree that the sound tech in question went beyond his post in that particular instance though.
As far as i see it, the fact is, that a dj will bring in a much bigger audience than a vj. If you are still getting paid for the 2 hours or so that you have to put on a dvd, then enjoy it, thats your time to cruise around, network a bit and have some fun. i have experienced both "we want this dvd played" and "we dont want any visuals for our set" .
Surely feeling that you have a given right to be doing the visuals for all acts is approaching a similar attitude to that of the "superstar dj" ?

[soulvisuals]

True. Only if you are actively creating visuals during the show would need to be mixing video clips with software.

If you want to be annoymous and lazy about it, I have developed a way to stream visuals through the internet. So that I don't have to be at the venue at all.

Fuck the superstar and give the visuals and music back to the people.

I vouch for a room with a djipod and streaming visuals from vjinternet.

[soulvisuals]

The main reason for the conflict in who is providing visuals for the gig arose, because there was not enough discussion between the tv production that hired us to provide visuals and Oakenfold's management.

In essence, the TV producers had made a deal with club to create a visual show with dancers from Australia. Oakenfold's managment however was hired by the club and had no knowledge of the TV production.

So Paul arrives at the club with his DVD of visuals because he is used to providing his own visuals. VJ Shadow is hired by the TV production to provide visuals at the club where Paul is playing as well.

However, the incident demonstrates now that the DJ takes control of not just the music but the visuals.

There seems to be many styles of providing visuals for a show.


1. making a premixed DVD to sell to a DJ
2. being hired as a VJ to mix live video inputs of video clips, video cameras, dvd via software and video mixers.
3. streaming a premixed visual set via the internet
4. creating a full live sonicvisual set

In creating full live sonicvisual sets there is no confusion who is providing the visuals and music.

[soulvisuals]

As for the idea of producing finished DVDs for DJs. I would highly doubt a budget of $200k would be given to a VJ for mixing a DVD.

That type of budget is reserved for a director producing the traditional music video.

Though the area of producing finished DVDs for DJs seems to be a valid area to explore if you just want to make the $$$. But you would be contributing to more and more gigs that do not rely on a VJ to perform live, hence changing the landscape of VJing where DJs will assume the role of the VJ. Thereby limiting the amount of gigs given to VJs.

Unless however, VJs produce their own soundtracks to visuals and are hired for a complete multimedia show. Which is the direction I think VJing should be moving in.

[Anyone]

VJs and DJs will meet half way in 5 year's time.

[SteveG]

VJs and DJs will meet half way in 5 year's time.

Some are ahead of the game:)
James Zabiela
Dan Tait
Phil K
Ecclectic Method
and even Addicitve TV doing more club sets.
Main stream club DJ's all performing regular DVJ sets. More are adding themselves quite quickly and I believe Marco V is now working on a DVJ set too. With some of the superclubs adding DVJ's to the equipment within the booths more DJ's will be looking for VJ's to produce their discs which should create quite a lot of work. The rate and amount of material an international DJ requires will almost make this a full time job.

[soulvisuals]

http://www.vjforums.com/showthread.php?t=16192

Yes, there definately has been more and more people producing just for the DVD market.

What are the copyright issues around DJs playing DVD visuals made by other producers?

Are we then also proposing no issues around playing a DVD of a feature film at a club or music festival?


Since the birth of the DVJ from pioneer and other vjing equipment produced by DJ equipment companies such as Numark, there seems to be a reliance on the DVD as the source of visuals.

This is heavily limited though convenient for the DJ who needs visuals

It is limited in the sense that if the DJ were to use the Pioneer DVJ as his source of music and visuals, the DJ would need to premake every 5min track with a visual mix. This seems limited since there is so much music being made that a DJ would hardly have enough time to produce new visuals to sync with the amount of new tracks coming into his set. Especially the case when alot of DJs rely on internet music sites like Beatport or other exclusive internet download sites to get their tracks .

A DVD is only useful if you are too busy to create live mixed visual effects or to use it as bedtrack layer for other visuals to mix over.

A DJ who relies heavily on DVD visuals will definately not push the limits or explore the more creative aspects of VJing.
They are playing predetermined playlists and premixed visuals.

The artform of being able to successfully create new sounds and visuals on the fly is area that needs to be explored.

[SteveG]

There is no licensing issues if the visuals are produced for the DJ and sold to him with a license for his use by the artist. Obviously sampled material could not be used nor could the Hollywood blockbuster.
The main stream clubbers really don't care how the visuals are produced although many are interested and genuinely appreciate a good interesting visual show, as long as the show is entertaining their happy. Therefore they will be happy with the DJ playing his DVJ set and are as they realise the work and creativity has been done Pre-show :)
I'm just getting in to the DVJ set myself and still mix content on the fly by either incorporating a 3rd DVJ or by adding my laptop and live camera to the show.

[Rovastar]

SoulVisuals,

Most of what you have said has arose because of a misunderstanding. Like SteveG said most will be happy to include their logo/clip/DVD in your set. And it is a reality and one that will continue.

But I would really like to see more clubs and festivals have a little backbone in this department.

Do they ever look at the DVD the DJs are going to display?
What if it doesn?t fit the image of their night?
What if the visuals are downright shit how many would refuse to play them?

Nightclubs/festivals are bigger (financial clout) than any individual DJ. And some are in a position to refuse but they do not.

There seems to be many styles of providing visuals for a show.

1. making a premixed DVD to sell to a DJ


There are many types of creating a visual show but please for the love of God if you learn anything from this forum. If you ever make a DVD for a club/DJ- don?t beat match it. Make it more generic the DJ/club will not be playing the music you had mixed it and it will look out of synch and completely pointless.

Some are ahead of the game:)
James Zabiela
Dan Tait
Phil K
Ecclectic Method
and even Addicitve TV doing more club sets.
Main stream club DJ's all performing regular DVJ sets. More are adding themselves quite quickly and I believe Marco V is now working on a DVJ set too. With some of the superclubs adding DVJ's to the equipment within the booths more DJ's will be looking for VJ's to produce their discs which should create quite a lot of work. The rate and amount of material an international DJ requires will almost make this a full time job.
Spoken like a true DVJ fanboy. ;)

Some say ahead of the game others say gimmicky flash in the pan. :D

But for DVJs to take off ?properly? there has to be fundamental changes to the way all DJ operate.

Who pays for the visuals for the ?white label?* tracks which is still what the majority of DJ play?

* Well there are few ?white labels? anymore but when someone makes something on a mp3 , etc

These tracks do not get videos out of thin air. Most making them will not have a video to go with it.

It takes time and money to create a half decent video for a track.

Lets look at the UK for a recent example that Gnarls Barkley ?Crazy? track was number 1 in the charts here for 2 weeks or something and they still didn?t have a video.

Does DJ not play a track if there is no video?

Someone has to make the videos and they have to be good as the public expect more and more now-a-days. And they are not cheap.

How much would you say of a recent set of any of the Top DJs have videos for them when the DJs first receive the promo.

Maybe you are suggesting that promos will all have high quality videos with them. What about every remix of every track that is release are you suggesting that they will all have decent videos for every new release.

That is based on the presumption that the record label will provide a video.

The other option is that each DJ will commission a video for each piece of music he plays in a set.

That will mean he/she will have a set playlist for each set and a playlist that cannot change too often as that would mean getting a new video for each track.

What do you think maybe a new track every 2-3 months?

And how much will this cost of ?3-4,000 for 3-4 minutes of video?

Remember a DJ is not a band that can create record sales and can therefore in theory afford to invest in the creating video for their tracks as they can recoup some costs.

Can you see what problems have to be overcome for it to be a success like some think it could be? Lots of chickens and egg situation about the finances.

Once you or someone has provided decent answers to my points than maybe I can be persuaded to change my mind but so far over the years since the DVJ have come out I have seen no answers to these questions. I asked the same questions then and I know there are some of the really popular tracks are on the Pioneer DVD site (which come out when the DJs have stopped playing the tracks ironic?) what is it Mixmash or something but your will need hundreds of thousands of tracks. And thousands a week coming out.

What is my prediction, well if it is to change from what it is now in the near future than surly an custom computer automated swirly visualization system is the way forward for each big DJ they carry around with them. A lot cheaper than commissioning visuals for each track, etc always have branding in there and future proofed too as they can play the new tracks straight away.

I am not holding my breath on this either and, true, I may be biased but tell me does this sound more plausible than the DVJ solution?

[soulvisuals]

I agree that the VJs creative production of original visuals is essential for festivals and events that have specific themes. This is where the DVD that a DJ had made months ago may be out of date or not even suited to the events theme. And that is exactly what happened when Paul's management did not realize there was a TV production behind the theme of the event he was playing at.

The DVD they insisted we play was not preconceived for the theme of the event.

However, the advantage of using a laptop software based visual system as opposed to relying on just DVD visuals is the ability to provide spontaneous changes on the subject matter, color, geometry, landscape, speed, direction of visuals. This is essential when there are so many new dance tracks produced every day.


When a DJ plays a visuals dvd straight from a dvd player. Their show is bound to lack many dimensions. They do not have the ability to mix in new streams of original and stock video footage, or use software that has the ability to create and alter 3D forms, or incorporate live video footage, or add live video effects etc.


Ps: Check out the Gnarls Barkley Video. Its out there already. It's innovative,creative and a sure hit this year.

[SteveG]

Ha Ha...DVJ fanboy...thanks Rovastar:) I am a fan otherwise I wouldnt have invested in them. You have brought up very good points obviously but If I moved my arse I can download a 2hr set of new tunes tomorrow morning and by the following day be ready to play out with lets say 20 - 25 new DVD's,
keep in mind were not talking high quality music video material here but basic typical mixed VJ style graphics. Your library will grow quickly. Unlike purchased DVD's your tune can have endless variations of the visual mix.
As long as you have a decent library and imagination you will keep it interesting and fresh. Therefore your playing out with beat matched up to date or ahead of release tunes and visuals in sync. This is what I think the slightly bigger DJ or more ambitious DJ will approach VJ's for, the quick ability to put custom sets together. The DJ circuit is getting harder by the week with the DJ's not only requiring constantly changing new and unheard music but they are also in search of new gimics to set them appart from their peers.
Enter the DVJ where a DJ can stamp his visual tastes on things as well as his music. A top DJ earning 5K - 10K a gig can easily afford a VJ for 2 days work and production. Even better when the DJ employs you to go on tour....I believe Oli is out and about with Meat Katie which is great and hopefully more will follow his lead.

[akira_k]

Surely this seems to depend on the situation (I have made visuals for Sasha and Deep Dish, two of the most supposedly "anti visuals" guys from what has been told in tehse forums...), but in general it depends on the organizers of the festival. Every time I VJed for these the organizers have emphasized on our ability to provide according visuals, and managers agreed. No one told us anything. As a matter of fact you can find a video of our performance with Sasha at his website.

However, I believe all DJs should care about what goes on the screen, and I think the best way is to produce content AND tour with a VJ of their choice. I have seen many DVDs produced by someone for a DJ which were absolute shit I did not reproduce in the gig. I did something I found more apropriate and everyone was happy.

The need for a custom visuals show is much more obvious in live acts and I do not understand how bands still come to play without an according visual act. Plaid played here with their VJ, something which is not commonly seen around, and so did Mylo, but LCD Soundsystem, Ladytron and others, never brought any sort of visuals. Why do they not care about it? When DJ yoda came here with his audiovisual set, people loved it, because they never seen something like that.

Interests of DJs in the visuals must be stressed, but they need to lear n a few things to make the experience better, Throwing a DVD with visuals you supervised is not my idea of caring about the visuals, since it lacks the necessary interaction to make it a synchronized effort.

Many times I have stopped watching screens for what went on in them was terrible. At least 80% of what I've seen, is absolute shit. I hope these numbers change radically in teh following years, and the relation beteen djs/live acts and vjs will have to help that matter.

[deepvisual]

but please for the love of God if you learn anything from this forum. If you ever make a DVD for a club/DJ- don?t beat match it.


dunno if this is still good advice.

the DVJ can read the BPM on your DVD audio and you can then dial in the new BPM that you are trying to match.
so it depends on what kit you have...


G

[silvio]

Soulvisuals, from what I see these two events happened in China. I live here and I've been Vjing in clubs, bars and parties for two years. I've seen other VJ's here and they suck, sorry to say. Tiesto came here two weeks ago and he had his own VJ (who was terrible), Paul Van Dyke was here two months ago and he didn't even have visuals.
On the other hand I've seen so many foreigners here pretending to be DJ's and VJ's, and they get work cause they are white and it looks cool to have a foreigner DJ or VJ in a club here. So maybe the management thought you were one these guys that's only playing in a club cause he is white.
And a lot of the time when outsiders come here they think they are the shit (not talking about you but management) and it end ups like a big mess. And like Spaceman said he had no probs.
I 'll be playing for Sasha in a few months, I'll tell you then how it went.

[soulvisuals]

Silvio, Please refrain from making sweeping racist judgements. Just concentrate on making innovative and creative visuals for your upcoming show with Sasha.

For your information, I am a Chinese artist born in Vancouver, Canada. I have developed permanent visual installations for clubs in Shanghai at Club Vogue and Club Visuals in 2000 and 2002 and Yinghuang club in Chengdu. Currently, I am in Vancouver producing a multimedia project.

As for visitors, visiting other countries on gigs, there should definately be more discussion on what you intend to do for the show.

The main topic for this discussion is about the confusion that some DJs are bringing to shows. This is especially the case when DJs assume that their visuals will take importance for events eventhough visuals are already commissioned from a VJ by the local promoter. If DJs are going to operate like that I definately want to be involved in discussions with their management if they are booked for the same event.

Peace,

Raven

[Lucidhouse]

.
This is a good discussion guys... personally the most effective Audio Visual solution would be a well rehearsed DJ/VJ team. I recon the biggest hurdle is the fact that club culture is so DJ centric...the importance of good visual support has taken some time to filter through...but there will be a day when punters start to groan collectively or even walk out of your arena because of badly considered visuals.

Also I suppose the days of the over paid DJ might be numbered...maybe a more balanced artist fees will emerge where it's shared out more fairly between audio and video artists.

ps: this is the type of discussion that could go into the VJ scan section on the DJ mag (obviously edited)
.

.

[SteveG]

.
This is a good discussion guys... personally the most effective Audio Visual solution would be a well rehearsed DJ/VJ team. I recon the biggest hurdle is the fact that club culture is so DJ centric...the importance of good visual support has taken some time to filter through...but there will be a day when punters start to groan collectively or even walk out of your arena because of badly considered visuals.

Also I suppose the days of the over paid DJ might be numbered...maybe a more balanced artist fees will emerge where it's shared out more fairly between audio and video artists.

ps: this is the type of discussion that could go into the VJ scan section on the DJ mag (obviously edited)
.

.

I think the music will remain the important factor and allways will, however a more balanced fee would be appreciated:)

As far as the discussions in VJ Scan go....absolutely my point in another thread....but where would we put the smoke machines and lights...lol

In keeping with the thread subject I noticed this morining that the PVD branding visuals were done by Motionloops.

[evomedia]

Why would I want to produce a DVD for Oakenfold and have him take credit for my work.

His idea of visuals is to just carry a DVD to his sets instead of hiring a VJ.

I have been developing my own music and visuals using ableton and arkaos for the last few years now. So why would I be producing material for DJs to take credit for.

DJs are used to taking a lot of credit for tracks that composers have spent a tremendous amount of time making.
The DJ deceiding to play a DVD for visuals is just another way of taking credit for things they did not make.

If someone commissions a design company or production house its not about the production house taking credit, its about the CLIENT buying in skills they don't have, to ensure the brand is developed with the correct guidelines, and the correct message is developed.

The designers never takes the credit, you get paid for creating what the client wants in what style THEY say, as opposed to an art commission, which is them paying you for YOUR own style.

If I design a brochure for a company I don't complain that they are selling themselves on my work, they paid me to develop a design within their brand. If I ignore their brand saying why should I design what you want you'll have the shortest career in the world. Its not about my style its about theirs, thats the basis for all design agencies.

This IS a big problem with VJ's with your viewpoints, demanding their name on everything they produce, however with big name DJ's and their agents they want their brand presented NOT the VJ's. If a DJ has spent hundreds of thousands of pounds developing a brand, why would they want the VJ to ignore it and play what they want to play???? bet you havent spent hundreds of thousands on your clip library, your production values are likely to be tiny in comparison, and your library is totally unrelated to him... so why would he care whats in your library.

You say you've spent years developing your own music and visuals, so why should you change? are you serious, thats the point, its not all about you. They don't want you promoting you, they want you promoting them... so if thats what they want you should do it.

If your getting the hump, then maybe you should consider not working for established brands, if a production house said I don't care about your brand that would be the last job they ever got. Small clubs and promoters don't have a brand more than often so they don't mind the VJ promoting themselves.

You are showing a serious lack of knowledge about the creative industry mate, I'm not in the least suprised by their requests. I wouldn't start an arguement about issues like this as it shows a total lack of professional knowledge. If I was an agent and you started this debate with me I wouldn't ever book you again, in fact if I had this conversation more than once I'd forget VJ's and book event and staging companies instead as they would never dream of promoting themselves before the client.

What are the copyright issues around DJs playing DVD visuals made by other producers?

Are we then also proposing no issues around playing a DVD of a feature film at a club or music festival?

You set up a license agreement for your work, if you use samples you have to clear the with the originator, so you can license a DJ to use your orginal work but they they can't play someone elses work like feature films, without clearing that content as well with the studios or distributers.

[evomedia]

DJs assume that their visuals will take importance for events eventhough visuals are already commissioned from a VJ by the local promoter.

At the end of the day the crowd have come to see the DJ and his stage show not yours, your generally of no interest to the crowds when the main act is mainstream.

So many names like Fat boy slim, chemical brothers, gorrilaz etc etc etc etc all have developed their own stage shows, they don't need some unknown VJ getting the hump that they don't get to play what they want. They have a tried and tested performance that was developed purely for them, in fact a good or bad stage show directly affected their reputation, so they simply don't want unknown visuals on, your just a risk, and to be honest if they have spent hundreds of thousands developing a complete show with visuals, who are you to say they have no right.

If I played a club with someone like Mr Scuff I would expect him to bring his own I'd never begrudge it, in fact it means a damn site less work for the same money. So why complain.

Would you tell the gorillaz sorry we have a VJ so you can't play your own visuals, or people like the chems who always bring there own stage show. When you get to their size people do judge on the quality of the whole show, and when they play as many gigs as they do they have ZERO need or wish to work with every VJ in every venue. They just want to play their stuff, after all you might be rubbish, how would they know.

[famouswhendead]

It is kind of interesting where the original gig took place though....
Beijing, China... I do have have some experience here.
People do not actually care about visuals here, well even less then in other places.
Quality what is quality, A lot of the dvd's produced for big name DJ's are done by small start-ups, I have seen my share of those DVD's and usually the festival organiser says yes but tells you as visual person what do you think?
Some do suck a lot but a few of these start-ups to get better and it is about contacts.
But festival and large trance parties do think bigger picture (and most used to hire a director and choreographer (talk to them first)) They want good set.
In clubs this gets too personal real quickly, which I can understand there's this DJ who earns $$$$$ and the club VJ there which gets $.
Quality how will the DJ know?
If you are going to VJ with some of these DJ's send their management (main and local) a tape of your visuals or a showreel.
Just get pro-active first you are doing a performance as are they.
Since most DJ's will feel like that since you are usually booked via the festival/club/venue you don' count and are as the lightsperson, the lasersperson and just chill about it, if they don't like it well you still get paid.
I also think most of these dj's don't want to deal with this kind of stuff and just have guidelines they tell their people and which you can explain to their management as they want the stuff to look good, well so do you.
Future:
Who knows actually... future whatcha gonna do?

[Amukidi]

So many names like Fat boy slim, chemical brothers, gorrilaz etc etc etc etc all have developed their own stage shows, they don't need some unknown VJ getting the hump that they don't get to play what they want. They have a tried and tested performance that was developed purely for them, in fact a good or bad stage show directly affected their reputation, so they simply don't want unknown visuals on, your just a risk, and to be honest if they have spent hundreds of thousands developing a complete show with visuals, who are you to say they have no right.
Nail, head!
I've just been speaking with 3 of the "headline" DJs for this year's chill, and guess what? Yup, they've seen the light (arf!) and started to develop a proper, cohesive show, with a big emphasis on visuals. More acts than ever this year are working alongside VJs / Visual artists - never mind 5 years time, it is upon us now. Nobody can complain, it's what we've always wanted - recognition, acceptance and even respect! So embrace it, find yourself a DJ or two (or a band) and get to it.

[Rovastar]

Now I am confused.

keep in mind were not talking high quality music video material here but basic typical mixed VJ style graphics.

But we were talking about very high quality content.

In the recent past I've used visual content from Tiesto, PVD and Anjunabeats. All 3 DVD's were very high quality content?

??.

:)

dunno if this is still good advice.

the DVJ can read the BPM on your DVD audio and you can then dial in the new BPM that you are trying to match.
so it depends on what kit you have...


G

I am not convinced even with this technology it will look any good. Using a primitive sound analysis of the BPM to determine the visuals maybe be a perceived improvement but I don?t know.

Next time I am in London you will have to convince me that it works well with a demo in your studio.

Would you tell the gorillaz sorry we have a VJ so you can't play your own visuals, or people like the chems who always bring there own stage show. When you get to their size people do judge on the quality of the whole show, and when they play as many gigs as they do they have ZERO need or wish to work with every VJ in every venue. They just want to play their stuff, after all you might be rubbish, how would they know.

You are taking extremes here. Established musical acts that respect visuals Fat boy slim, chemical brothers, gorrilaz, etc.

What about the acts that have crap visuals, that don't give a shit. On one of my first gigs (out of the small number I have done) about 4 years ago Goldie was playing and they insisted on a projector for there visauls show which the promoter provided and they just played a Star Wars DVD from start to end and looped. LOL.

Hopefully now there will be less and less of these. And I do think we are in a transition period where they will improve but I think it will be messy in this period for the viewer where the visuals suffer.

AS you mentioned Mr Scruff I would just like to say that Mr Scruff visuals I saw after the AVIT UK last year were crap. :)

Some people only remember the good visuals show I only remember the bad ones. :)

Nail, head!
I've just been speaking with 3 of the "headline" DJs for this year's chill, and guess what? Yup, they've seen the light (arf!) and started to develop a proper, cohesive show, with a big emphasis on visuals. More acts than ever this year are working alongside VJs / Visual artists - never mind 5 years time, it is upon us now. Nobody can complain, it's what we've always wanted - recognition, acceptance and even respect! So embrace it, find yourself a DJ or two (or a band) and get to it.

Lets hope the big acts take it seriously and do ?proper, cohesive shows?.

I am a born skeptic and I hope they are not just pressing play on random DVDs like a few headline acts did last year. An hour of a minute looped clip is not quality and well thought out visuals. I hope I am wrong I really do but when booking a music act you hear them first.

If it does carry on does that mean the end to the general VJ. I wonder if any of the visual artists will come along to the meet up with the VJs like the chill had last year.

(Which brings me to another point that about general VJs and VJ attached to AV acts mixing together (of which I am seeing less and less snubbing traditional VJs maybe) I will do a separate thread for.)

Is the writing on the wall for groups of VJs meeting up/mashing up now?

I have no problem with doing commercial work - it is mostly what I do. However ?Nobody can complain, it's what we've always wanted - recognition, acceptance and even respect!? I don?t really see how you will get recognition, acceptance and respect in the club world.

I imagine that DJ/VJ combos the VJ will not be mentioned on the flyer, etc in fact their name might not even be mentioned on the music artists website. I think VJs could be more anonymous (to the public) then ever. It matter not if they are paid properly in my book but it is not what some had dreamed/thought a few years ago where they wanted to be respected in there own right. When I first came here people were talking about the Japanese model where the VJ and DJ get equal billing??.. I imagine this is not talked about anymore.

Personally I never liked the idea of all my eggs in one basket tried down to one music artist. Obviously it makes most sense to go down this route for regular work assigned to a DJ or two. But will the visuals be first to go from the budget again this time from the DJ that hired you rather than the club.

*not all comment direct at you John and the BC. General points being made?.that you probably have heard before. :)

[SteveG]

Rovastar if you read my comments they are related to different parts of the thread. My remark you quote first was relating to the fact that a DVJ artist can download up to date tunes and turn them into playable and entertaining DVD's quickly. The second quote gives an example of DJ's who are carrying high quality graphics around and not crap;)..hope that makes it clear enough, If I could produce music video standard material I wouldnt be a club VJ:)

[spaceman]

off topic but

Silvio, Please refrain from making sweeping racist judgements. Just concentrate on making innovative and creative visuals for your upcoming show with Sasha.


Silvio might have have said it bluntly but i've seen it happen here too, it happend to me once, when i was booked for a gig(a posh private party), but a team mate was gonna go instead...The promoter ring me to tell me that i have to go personaly cos they sold me as the "foreigner" (read white guy) ..... :alien:

[soulvisuals]

In terms of brand creation, brand propagation, and brand protection, the idoru" or "idol singer"-- an artificial celebrity creation of information software agents based on a book by William Gibson, is an example where the DJ is fast headed.

From what Evomedia is saying, the DJ and VJ is the Idoru today- An android celebrity created by designers using multimedia software.

The DJ has producers send him white label tracks and VJs send him visuals. The DJ is the surface container for the media. The Icon head who disseminates the media to the masses. This is the advanced state of icon worship in the high tech world. A perfect vehicle for mass hypnotism and mass programming. A cult culturing its culture.

Evomedia,I am tired of working for large corporate brands.
Why do people call themselves brands? I've heard Paris Hilton call herself a brand. I guess people aren't people unless they are a brand in this commercial world.

What I like about VJing is to question the media or to remix the media. VJing from your perspective sounds like one big Telie commercial for a DJ.

I like to think of visuals as a realtime psychedelic trip into an extraordinary landscape not populated by products found in the commercial world.

We have enough commercial mind programming by the matrix TV. I think people go to raves to reprogram their minds and body and maybe find their soul.

[soulvisuals]

off topic but



Silvio might have have said it bluntly but i've seen it happen here too, it happend to me once, when i was booked for a gig(a posh private party), but a team mate was gonna go instead...The promoter ring me to tell me that i have to go personaly cos they sold me as the "foreigner" (read white guy) ..... :alien:


Yeah Silvio has his way of saying things. Just don't want others to feel like we are talking about race here. I understand where he is coming from. Its much easier being a prophet in a foreign land.

[evomedia]

AS you mentioned Mr Scruff I would just like to say that Mr Scruff visuals I saw after the AVIT UK last year were crap.*

&

What about the acts that have crap visuals, that don't give a shit. On one of my first gigs (out of the small number I have done) about 4 years ago Goldie was playing and they insisted on a projector for there visauls show which the promoter provided and they just played a Star Wars DVD from start to end and looped.

Its not about them being good, bad indifferent. That should influence if a VJ gets to take over a DJ or bands visuals. You may not have liked Mr Scruffs visuals, I indeed think he could do with someone controling them rather than a DVD. However when I see those characters I know its Mr Scruff playing even if I don't see him on the decks. Thats the point he has linked his music to a visual style he likes. Sorry if this comes as a suprise but thats what VJ's do to, they link the music to what visual style they think suits. However its his set, he should be able to play what visuals he wants if he chooses. He thinks they suit his sense of humour, it follows in all of his album art and websites, its as much a part of his set as his music. So why argue if he's taken an interest.?

Are we saying as VJ's we are always right visually, that we are the only ones allowed to dicate what happen on the screens? DJ's don't deserve to have the same control? we play what we think suits the DJ's music, but do we really know that more than the DJ themselves? Isn't that dicatorship in its basest form. If you want to have the last word, put on your own events, your own music and put want you want on the screen. This 'I can do better mentality' is ego you know, rightly or wrongly.

So why should any VJ say 'thats rubbish I should be able to do it instead?' Its the DJ's right to pick what message they project visually as much as any VJ's. In fact the DJ knows how there set is going to progress, how dark or upbeat its going to get. In fact they are much better suited to planning whats going to happen.

Evomedia,I am tired of working for large corporate brands.
Why do people call themselves brands? I've heard Paris Hilton call herself a brand. I guess people aren't people unless they are a brand in this commercial world.

I see the same usual backlash from soulvisuals against branding lol, which always makes me laugh when you buy computers/ graphics cards/ mixers/ clothes/ newpapers/ vote for politically parties/ choose books/ food/ drinks/ furniture/ lights/ pay charities/ pick club nights all based on the message they promote or the ethics they adopt or the quality of products tthey produce, people buy macs because the name, because of its perceived quality, same as cars, or which gas supplier you use. Those messages are only visible generally through the brand, thats the website, logo, brochures, PR, marketing, its about shouting your story, what makes what you do special, different. If your making a new wonder machine that uses only green energy and will save the world. How do people hear about it? through getting the story to a wide audience and tell them your the person or company doing it, thats branding. Its not all about coke and microsoft, every farmer, shop, business, charity, government and club has a brand mate. Bet your club night has a name, a flyer design, thats a brand too. A brand is about telling the companies or even yes individuals story to the world. It's not about a logo. Oxfam has a brand, Greenpeace have a brand, hilter had a brand but so did live 8, branding doesn't make a company evil, the company does, a big part of branding is graphics same as VJing, designers help make brands, if I VJ an an anti war demo thats strengthening there brand. Branding isn't the problem, soulvisuals you have been making visuals and music in your style, thats your brand. You have a VJ name a logo I'm betting and a website thats a brand lol if you put you logo on screen then strangly bet you don't view thats the same, you want people to identify and acknowledge your skills as a VJ and want people to remember your name but you still don't see that as branding???

I think really your anti commercialism, but I hate this I'm anti money but don't have a better solution. So what if a big name DJ already has a brand, they wouldn't have a well known name without one, its not what defined them as a person its just that their name is well know because of the success they have achieved. Microsoft, macdonalds etc etc etc are only big brands because so many people buy their products, if no one bought anything from them they wouldn't be so well known.

So get off your high horse again people use these words like anti brands anti commercialism, anti capitalism, but buy equipment to VJ, pay bills have a job etc. And when questioned they only have a go and the same few companies, but ignore the fact that there are hundreds of millions of businesses that don't offend them.

If you as VJ become successful, either intentionally or not and everyone knows your name, does that mean you should have loose all your rights because people think your a brand? Does it means your not you anymore?

[soulvisuals]

Check out all these brands!
http://www.babyface.com.cn/event.htm

Just don't expect me to be an obedient altar boy for all them.:devil: haha

[akira_k]

I've just been speaking with 3 of the "headline" DJs for this year's chill, and guess what? Yup, they've seen the light (arf!) and started to develop a proper, cohesive show, with a big emphasis on visuals. More acts than ever this year are working alongside VJs / Visual artists
Bravo! :biggrin:

[trueomnimedia]

At the end of the day the crowd have come to see the DJ and his stage show not yours, your generally of no interest to the crowds when the main act is mainstream.

its true,

i have done shows for Sasha, ULTRA, Global Gathering. Never a problem.

gotta do you homework ahead of time.
i put it in my contract if i want to be onstage or backstage.
tell them i need power and video drops. show up and mix.
Make sure you get meal tickets, drinks all that.

Like freek nasty, uberzone, adam freeland. all had there own DVD's
i talked with them and told them im gonna mix there DVD in with my set and still keep there vibe. If you cant talk to an artist talk to thier manager.
be cool with people and it comes back.

If you want to have none of these worries its easy.
I have an agent that takes care of all of that.

Andrew from HI-BEAM made my life alot easier for WMC this year
looking foreward to more gigs that way.

This is the best
I had one of the people @ global gathering Dave from track entertainment.
he said hey man i wanna see more of the visuals.
he had the lighting guy dim down his rig by like 40%
it was awsome.

so for all of you hang in there. realize if it not a paying gig.
they wont treat you seriously. GET payed and you will have less problems.

and my best piece of advice

better to ask forgivness than permission

peace
dave

VJ OMNI

[jimwop]

I do mr scruffs visuals and think that you are right in saying that a dvd is substandard to a vj. Which is why I go on 95% of all gigs with the rest of the production. The reason i don't go on the other 5% is because of budget. (i,e. when he is doing something for free for a friend, or he is flying to somwhere with a crap exchange rate, or when he is flying somewhere he is not big, or the venue is too crap to do visuals.) I think your main problem is (whoever said my visuals were crap) you don't get out enough and you don't realy know what is going on.
The reason everyone is struggling is because a lot of people produce realy shit Fractal Kaleidoscope crap. Or moving stills of cities, or bollox timelaps of/in cars..... fucking hell the list goes on. people don't get booked because they are shit. Dj's don't hire vj's because of a variaty of reasons. They don't see it as a stage show, or they are greedy or they are stupid, or they don't want them because there opinion of visuals is so low because of all the shit vj's they have seen.
don't get me wrong, I'm not saying im brilliant or anything, i was in the right place at the right time with the right skills, I vj because I like it, but i would say im more of a producer. I do animation and special effects predominantly for music video, but i do lots of other things.

I say this because i feel like an outsider looking in on an emerging scene. People need to produce better visuals and they will get booked.
I saw a bunch of legendary vj's that do an audio visuals set very recently (not mentioning any names) and i was absaloutly shocked by how shit it was. Hlaf of the room emptied after half the set. they have been banging the same drum for nearly 10 years now and its very boring.

push things forward

[evomedia]

Hi Jimwop, good to hear from you. I completely agree with you on your points, I sometimes get the impressions that many VJ's get more caught up in their art than the concept of providing entertainment.

[MoRpH]

VJ's get more caught up in their art than the concept of providing entertainment.

HERE HERE!

[deepvisual]

yup.
there is no point making it if no one else is going to want to watch it.

[Rovastar]

I think your main problem is (whoever said my visuals were crap) you don't get out enough and you don't realy know what is going on.


That would be me then. :)

I probably do get out and see a fair bit, not as much as some but I would say more that most. Yeah that is a lot of crap out there. Few, if any, have really impressed me.

I base my comments on seeing the visuals to Mr Scruff set at the Custard Factory in Birmingham, March(?) 2005 after the VJ festival that was the last day of AVIT which was held at the same venue.

Actualy you don't state if you were VJing or not that night. I presume from your reaction you were.

To me I thought it was a DVD or at least no noticable VJing/mixing going off. I would have expect some tiggering the stickman animations trigger on the beat, etc. To me there was much potential for a Mr Scruff set. Simple animations, black and white, a lot of potential effective blends and mixes, and effective animation triggering to sounds/beats.

As the visuals I saw I thought we unimaginative considering the potential of the subject matter and didn't follow the music anywhere near closely enough. To me it could have been a generic Mr Scruff DVD being played.
As purely a visuals branding exercise the DVD/your live set worked well - I know that Mr Scruff was playing but I thought it was a poor show.

And to be honest most other VJs (as there were a fair few of us around that night) I spoke to thought it was a DVD and poor.

Sorry, I just felt let down in the lack of ambition in the set. It seems ripe for a proper AV experience. I hope that explains more now about how I thought they were crap.

Also if you were not VJing that night and it was one of the 5% of times that did not go then you have to remember that people can only go on what they saw that night. And praise and/or critic will be based on what they saw. So if I just see a press play on DVD every track visual set then that is what people will say so-and-so DJ visuals are like.


I say this because i feel like an outsider looking in on an emerging scene. People need to produce better visuals and they will get booked.
I saw a bunch of legendary vj's that do an audio visuals set very recently (not mentioning any names) and i was absaloutly shocked by how shit it was. Hlaf of the room emptied after half the set. they have been banging the same drum for nearly 10 years now and its very boring.


:) Yeah I probably saw the same artists and thought they had one of the worst AV experiences I have seen. I have posted about it here somewhere....

many VJ's get more caught up in their art than the concept of providing entertainment.
:) Too true, mass market entertainment. :)

[jimwop]

Yes i was there that night. Think that was the bank holiday sunday or something and he started playing in the afternoon. Anyway, the way i structure the night is to not drop too many visuals at the begining of the night and have nothing up my sleeve for the later hours. If you left early you would not have seen what else i was up to. If you did stay later then I can only apologise. Since then there has been massive money and time spent in new production including spec built sound reactive visuals and a lot more audience interraction visuals. I have pushed and pushed to get money to invest in the visuals side of things and it is happening and getting better all the time. I suggest you come down to a scruff show near you and have a look now.
I have a bank of about 150 visuals that i use, and at least 3 specific visuals for each place we visit (and thats a lot of places). I run an audio line out of mr scruff's latop running cubase with some extra filters on to make the signal more dynamic so the visuals react better. we have 4 2500 lumen projectors (1 spare) and 3 8x6 fastfold rear projection screens. I think as a traveling dj production we have invested more money into visuals than anything else. I am still pushing for more stuff though, i want to go down the route of midi triggering so as he delays the records in mix's he can affect the visuals with the same delay unit. Anyway im babbling now
It would be better if every dj had a vj that could produce branded visuals that give the club a unified vibe, rather than have some techno style visuals being shown when somone is playing jazz. And the vj's that say they can cater for any kind of music - jack of all trades, master of none.
Fuck dodgy club promoters and shit venues that won't spend any money, everyone should start aproaching artists with strong creative ideas. Its the only way anyone can make a living doing this. I have been doing my job for 5 years and been all over the world. Mr scuff can't be the only dj to see the potential of a good stage show.

[Rovastar]

I think I arrived with many other VJs in the early evening. Stayed most of the night but didn't watch the scenes thoughout.

I do look forward to seeing your new set at the Big Chill (ooh only 3 or 4 weeks away now) and hope too see you at the VJ meetup there too.

I'll reserve future judgement until I see the new set.

(Actualy I find the VJs attached to DJs/acts don't want to mix with other VJs (well in my experience anyway) but that is another thread for another day)

In general many more VJs attach themselves to DJ/Acts now to create a decent show. It can be a decent approach but not all VJs are going to go down this route.

Personally I am not sure I would like it for me it is gambling too much on the success of that DJ/act. When they call it a day where to do you from there?

It can be too limiting to me but I am more content creation and installations really then bread and butter VJing.

[jimwop]

Your right in saying i don't realy mix with other vj's, because im not realy a vj. I have big respect for what you guys do and this community but I don't have any aspiration to tour or do club gigs with anyone else. I have done visuals in clubs for years outside of mr scruff and for me its progressed on to other things, like music video and film production. I wouldn't take on another act now. When mr scruff decides he has had enough,(which i don't think he ever will) or people stop coming to the nights. i will have certainly had enough.
This doesn't apply to mr scruffs production but for the rest of the music industry - I can't be arsed dealing with idiots who have no artistic vision and would argue over 50 pence (managers, promoters, agents, record label wankers).
These days i prefer to stay in manchester, tend to my vegetables (which im growing in my garden) and go to the office when i feel like it.
I do love touring and i would never give it up as long as i was needed, but i have lost 2 serious girlfriends, got countless illnesses from sleep depravation and lost an entire crop of sweetcorn whilst i have been away (bastard).
I would like to hook up at the big chill though so we can have a few beers and talk some more. If anyone wants to find me ill be kicking round mr scruffs tea shop quite a lot. just go in there and ask for jim.

[eyeborg]

Hi everyone,

I feel this siutation is a bit misunderstood!

I am on both sides of the camp here, I VJ with my own material and I also make DVD's for the superstar DJ's mentioned in this thread to take with them on tour.

As far as I can see, the premade DVDs should only be played untouched on a loop if there is no VJ at the venue to bring it to life. The perfect gigs are when the DVD's are chopped up, mixed and manipulated by the VJ, and of course mixed with their own material. Then it never gets boring or repetitive, and I find it really excititing to see what the VJ does with my videos. Whenever I get to attend the gigs where my DVD's are used I always ask the VJ to play around with it as he or she likes.

Much as you guys might hate the DVD's you're told to play, don't forget that these DVD's usually promote the DJ and their mix CD's. As a result their album sales increase and they get booked to do more gigs, and so you get more bookings too... It all ties together.
What's more, if the promoter is told the DJ brings a DVD, they are more likely to sort out a projection and hire you! And... as much as I'd like to make all my money from VJ'ing, it just isn't possible (yet) so making the DVD's is a nice supplement, and I'd recommend it to everyone here.

I have also made DVJ content for a DJ's specific tracks, and tried to make it very personal to the DJ which the crowd finds funny and entertaining, as opposed to random graphics that bear no relation to the DJ or his/her music. There is a lot of scope for humour and nonsense in the premade DVD field of work, especially if you're lucky to get to work with DJ's who have a sense of humour! It can be done on a shoe-string, and look quirky and underground. Not all superstars want a glossy expensive look to everything. Yet again, this is work a VJ can do as a supplement to the live shows, it's a different approach and great fun.

In conclusion: A balance can be struck between the VJ's performance and the DJ's own visual material, that's when it really works and looks great. Premade DVD's are fun to make and extend your income and skills.

I was lucky when I started out, I knew the 'right' people to get these jobs. I'm no expert in any field, and have to stick to strict briefs most of the time I but try to add my own style as much as possible. I'm just grateful I get to do work that is as satisfying as this.

- counting my blessings :bunny:

[jimwop]

indeed