OFFICIAL and CLEARED Hollywood film remix...!!

[AddictiveTV]

Hi all

Well, it seems Hollywood are definately taking notice of our scene now...

We've just done the audiovisual remix of the new Antonio Banderas film "Take The Lead" for it's promotional campaign (it's the movie of that true story from the documentry Mad Hot Ballroom where a pro ballroom dancer teaches hip-hop kids in NY to dance).

To watch it, we've stuck it up on youtube.com here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7wese9BuEU

Press pause by the way and wait a minute or so for it to download, otherwise it keeps stopping. [also it was a nice clean mp4 then youtube.com made it look a bit low res!! :( ]

We're in Eindhoven at the STRP Festival this weekend for anyone in Holland... :) ...and cheers to those who came along to Bonn in Germany last Saturday... ;) amazing space [the biggest indoor LED screen in Europe!]

G.

[andythetwig]

nice work!

[hookturn]

SO there is more than just gigs out there for us Vj's.

No doubt you will get a lot more work now because of that mash up.

Well done.

[DrEskaton]

congratulations guys...

leading the way for the rest of us as usual...

[Brainwasher]

haha very nice...... are u guys coming to miami for wmc at all...would like to link up..

[asterix]

Just out of interest - how'd you get it cleared?

[sleepytom]

yeah is this "cleared" or "commissioned"? very very different things IMHO

commissioned = film makers ask / pay you to make a cutup as a promotional device for the film

cleared = you ask / pay the film makers to use the samples

i suspect this is actually commissioned work and as such is not really the landmark that is claimed!

still i quite like it though :)

[USE]

crazy sheite. kind of inspiring, kind of depressing. good work for holywood fatcats. then again, i'm just jealous.

i think the slipt screen/ blue dancing bit after the beggining setup and before the bit where the geezers beating on the car (which is my fave bit) is a bit weak. im still jealous tho.

[holly]

yeah is this "cleared" or "commissioned"? very very different things IMHO
yup.

Congrats on the gig tho, however you spin it.;)

[oxygen]

Hi Graham,

Congrats! Me very curious to see your set! See you @ STRP-festival.
I'll be checking you out ;).

(Maybe not the biggest LED screen, but def. an overwelming & huuUuge festival. I have been filming the process of the setting up. Amazing how much work can be done in one week..)

[InsideUsAll]

Addictive's live performances are amazing, they are the only AV act I have seen where I've actually really enjoyed the full show, music, visuals and atmosphere. Highlights for me are the Italian Job Remix, The bond mega mix & now this take the lead remix.

Oxygen: Don't miss the show - they rock! :)

[USE]

Addictive's live performances are amazing, they are the only AV act I have seen where I've actually really enjoyed the full show, music, visuals and atmosphere. Highlights for me are the Italian Job Remix, The bond mega mix & now this take the lead remix.

Oxygen: Don't miss the show - they rock! :)

i have yet to see em live, but i have to say while i respect them for making the film-cuts that you mentuioned, i didnt find them very suprising, original or inspiring. a bit lazy if you ask me. maybe i just want the moon on a stick. would love to see them live, tho.

[littlecatalyst]

:poke:

[THC]

idea is fantastic i love it !!!!
but for a "premiere hollywood" remix i feel that a bit more should have been done to realy sync the visuals on music.
(not sure if it's done live or on NLE.)
on the edit side vj alexis from Sao-Paolo brasil
has been doing remixing brasilian movies for quite a while.
check out his remix of city of god.
http://www.visualfarm.com.br/vjalexis/cidadededeusmov.htm

[RayV]

i dont realy care how it was done -for me it is great work & thats it :)
made me smile & great tune too
i simply luv it

[THC]

i think it makes a big difference if it's done live.......
that realy shows amazing skills.
personally i liked the 25 mins piece on samurailfm much better
lot more work and time went into production.
but once again big up.
peace

[WordVirus23]

i have yet to see em live, but i have to say while i respect them for making the film-cuts that you mentuioned, i didnt find them very suprising, original or inspiring. a bit lazy if you ask me. maybe i just want the moon on a stick. would love to see them live, tho.

I don't think anyone can call Addictive "lazy"... you might wanna stop talking out of your arse. especially since you've never seen them live. try being "inspired" by the fact they probably made a bundle doing this very professional and commercially viable bit... hell, I wouldn't be suprised to see it turn up as a trailer for the movie. try thinking of them as "original" in the fact that hollywood movie producers are coming to them to get their skills. try being "suprised" by the fact that they're world renouned VJs/artists. and you are......?

..james...

[THC]

so.......... is that piece mixed live or edited?
that will help to know.

[USE]

I don't think anyone can call Addictive "lazy"... you might wanna stop talking out of your arse. especially since you've never seen them live. try being "inspired" by the fact they probably made a bundle doing this very professional and commercially viable bit... hell, I wouldn't be suprised to see it turn up as a trailer for the movie. try thinking of them as "original" in the fact that hollywood movie producers are coming to them to get their skills. try being "suprised" by the fact that they're world renouned VJs/artists. and you are......?

..james...

as has been said, the middle bit isnt synched properly, and for such a high-profile project, i call that lazy.

as for being inspired by money...fuck you and your family, mate. anyone who gets inspired by money deserves the plague in my book. but i just clicked your link and it says "I hate supporting huge corporations" who made the film bruv?

i am Austin Mallon. when i put some video up on the net i will be happy to recieve the same honesty that i have put out.

[complexvisuals]

as for being inspired by money...fuck you and your family, mate. anyone who gets inspired by money deserves the plague in my book.

Hurray, another hippy on the forums. Thought we were running low on them recently.

[USE]

Hurray, another hippy on the forums. Thought we were running low on them recently.

i could have put it more nicely, tho, appologies for harshness, but you get my meaning.

ps: is complexvisuals.com just a holding page?

[complexvisuals]

ps: is complexvisuals.com just a holding page?

Suppose you could call it that. Seem to be getting on just fine without doing a site.

To be honest, I've just never got round to it really.

[fALk]

So many question that - apart from the initial self promotion for which the addictive people are know - none is answered.

Is it commissioned?

why do you think its a vj piece and not another kind of nonlinear edited trailer for the movie?

what is the message that goes beyond the film?

Why is it only five minutes?

Why does it only have 10 different loops (if you got money for that then its the easiest way a vj ever made money that I have seen)?

What are your artistic feelings about this mashup?

Why didn?t you shoot footage like this yourself?

And many more questions that I could ask that question the validity of this on these forums. But yeah make it "a new kind of vjing" and hide your shameless selfpromotion for more and more unispired things that ain?t helping the "scene" in any bit and just serve the traditional media in overtaking our medium into their empire - killing all and every little dissent voice and concept that could threaten their superiority.

<rant over>

[andythetwig]

anyone for tea?

[USE]

anyone for tea?

two sugars please mate. :hippy: i'll skin up.

[InsideUsAll]

So many question that - apart from the initial self promotion for which the addictive people are know - none is answered.<rant over>

guys come on, not everyone has the time to read the forum 7 days a week. Try and see beyond ur own forum addictions..

and why is it on vjf that people are expected to justify their work so thoroughly, I've never undertood that. Does work suddenly become better/worse if its justified/not justified?

[DrEskaton]

And many more questions that I could ask that question the validity of this on these forums. But yeah make it "a new kind of vjing" and hide your shameless selfpromotion for more and more unispired things that ain?t helping the "scene" in any bit and just serve the traditional media in overtaking our medium into their empire - killing all and every little dissent voice and concept that could threaten their superiority.

<rant over>

falk I admire your morals but it is possible to work for the man and still keep some integrity.

would you yourself refuse this job if it was offered to you?

what about if the money from the job allows you to continue to do other creative or charity work which is your real passion?

[Lucidhouse]

quite like the tune, builds and ends nicely...visually it's a bit dull, but then you got to work with what you have...
I find this is the usual case with when using audio that's linked to the visuals, it mostly ends up as a compromise.

.

[Rovastar]

Is it commissioned?


I think it seems pretty clear from the post that it is a commisioned peice. It is good that more hollywood studios are using VJs for promtion.

We have done a few visuals for films (Lord of the rings, Batman begins, etc - althought they all paid for the work nothing got released :sigh:) and getting to know the right people in the promotion department for each studio is the biggest hurdle.

It is good to see more work like this and another revenue stream..well for the few non-hippies here who like money.

I do have a question or two if Addictive are listening.

Is this a standalone remix (just for internal use) or is this mix planned to be promoted on their official website, television adverts, etc. (I hope that you have discussed these issues and additional usage out in your contract.)

Basically trying to work out how seriously the film companies are taking this.

[vjpixylight]

I would really like to see motion picture studios actually using VJ's live on set!!
Now that IMHO, would be a major breakthru.
Could you imagine doing live green screen mixing of visual elements while the actors do their acting bit in front of the green screen? This could add a whole new perspective to what is called "live Cinema":)

[WordVirus23]

I do hate big corps. however, I DO like new gear... which ain't free. As a VJ whose sole source of income is from VJing and some graphic design here 'n there... big profile gigs are very nice... means one gig might finance a trip across the country (or ocean) or buy a new computer/projector/mixer. at heart, I do like some corporations.... Sony, Roland/Edirol, NEC, Phillips... I think you see where that list is headed. ;)

peace
..james...

[asterix]

Wow you like sony? Looking forward to seeing how you went with clearing the visuals. All the money corporate etc bs aside - its nice to know VJing has the eye of some big media empires, and for those of us who want to earn a dollar, or play with some top end production visuals that its a possiblity. I mean how many songs out there feature movie content?

By the way USE I don't know what the deal is with being motivated by the $$$. I don't think my family deserves the plague because I do work specifically for little more reason than the fact that it pays me. Theres a shitload of things I'd rather do but it doesn't put food in my sons mouth now does it.

[USE]

By the way USE I don't know what the deal is with being motivated by the $$$. I don't think my family deserves the plague because I do work specifically for little more reason than the fact that it pays me. Theres a shitload of things I'd rather do but it doesn't put food in my sons mouth now does it.

i dont think anyone deserves the plague, certainly not your family. it was a poor choice of words.

when you have a kid then they are more important than you are, i can imagine that you are motivated out of love for them.

but any kind of artist who is motivated primarily by money (advertising graphic designers spring to mind) then i dont think they should be allowed to call themselves artists as i dont consider what they make art. art should be motivated by higher concepts such as truth beauty, the desire to communicate etc. when art is made just to make money, it is just a product. its not black and white, there are some advertisers who are genuine artists who happen to create imagery to sell stuff, but they are few and far between. to me the worth of a peice of art is totally tied up with how and why it was made.

[DrEskaton]

I would really like to see motion picture studios actually using VJ's live on set!!
Now that IMHO, would be a major breakthru.
Could you imagine doing live green screen mixing of visual elements while the actors do their acting bit in front of the green screen? This could add a whole new perspective to what is called "live Cinema":)

this is already done pixy.... but you won't get into it by being a VJ.

post production companies employ "pre viz" artists who use realtime engines (sometimes repurposed game engines) to do rough visualisations of an effects sequence on set during shooting. The Matrix movies all used this technique, plus David Fincher (fight club) is very big on it.

it's been done for the last five years at least, but you'll only get into it on a big studio picture by working through ranks at a big post company, usually as a 3D animator or technical director.

off course there is plenty of scope for VJ's to offer these same services much more cheaply for indie films that want some visual effects...

[Rovastar]

but any kind of artist who is motivated primarily by money (advertising graphic designers spring to mind) then i dont think they should be allowed to call themselves artists as i dont consider what they make art. art should be motivated by higher concepts such as truth beauty, the desire to communicate etc. when art is made just to make money, it is just a product. its not black and white, there are some advertisers who are genuine artists who happen to create imagery to sell stuff, but they are few and far between. to me the worth of a peice of art is totally tied up with how and why it was made.
Does your philosophy apply to commissioned pieces of art too? Much modern art is work for order now. “Here is X thousand do me something good”. Does commissioned art done by say Damien Hurst not count then........

[USE]

Does your philosophy apply to commissioned pieces of art too? Much modern art is work for order now. ?Here is X thousand do me something good?. Does commissioned art done by say Damien Hurst not count then........

i think you misunderstand. im not sayng its unacceptable to be paid to make art, that would be ludicrous. im just saying if art is produced primarily to make money it has very little value in my eyes.

but for the record, i dont consider damien hirst to be an artist. he doesnt even make any of his own work. he basically commisions other people to make art for him, that he takes credit for and 7 million quid. his continued existance is an insult to art, but i have a chip on shoulder. the reasoin why i vj is because i have no respect at all for the art scene. as far as i can see its just a way for criminals to launder money.

[fALk]

falk I admire your morals but it is possible to work for the man and still keep some integrity.

would you yourself refuse this job if it was offered to you?

what about if the money from the job allows you to continue to do other creative or charity work which is your real passion?

-----------------

yes it is possible to work for the man and keep integrity - I agree and I do work for "cooperations" that make tons of money - yet I am not selling as the advancement of the VJs (which is what the initial addictive post seems to imply) and I take 100% creative freedom for granted or the client can fuck off - yes I am poor moneywise but at least I am happy :P

Would I refuse the job if it was offered to me?
This particular one: Yes. I simply do not believe in remixing as there seems no artistic merit that can be formulated. I do believe that we have the tools to actually rival Hollywood and them swallowing the VJ scene together with the music industry will really not help us in any way - it rather destroys the intend of the individual artist - just like it has been done with independent musicians (who finally making a comeback through the web but still struggling against their multimillion dollar rival marketing campaigns) and indy films (again only after years and years of marketing the indy film market is starting to recover recently and there is still a heavy counterbalance on the "money sheet" between all hollywood movies together against all indy-movies together -> which also shows in viewer acceptance). Rather to dance with the devil we should unite with the underdogs and rally against the market force that brings so much unjust to that world - then again I am a lefty coming from communism and all and maybe my values are different.

what about if the money from the job allows you to continue to do other creative or charity work which is your real passion?
That is always the balance. As said above Yes I do commissioned commercial work and I am really ashamed that I have to - vjing aint feeding me - actually I even work for hollywood and tv structures but then I am not calling it art (its work) and try to disconnect it from the vj scene as much as possible and if its really a commercial VJ set (just did one for the gay lesbian film festival in berlin) then then I keep the client out of the creative process and produce as much things myself as possible - yes I do understand people must live but this specific project is like doing an advertisement campaign for the gun that will shoot you the next day.

guys come on, not everyone has the time to read the forum 7 days a week. Try and see beyond ur own forum addictions..

and why is it on vjf that people are expected to justify their work so thoroughly, I've never undertood that. Does work suddenly become better/worse if its justified/not justified?

I am not addicted I look at the forum ones or twice a week and still follow all relevant discussions - especially those that I created - I didn?t give any timeline I rather meant: for me those questions are unanswered. And if you are doing a selfpromotion on a public message board (spam if I want to be harsh) I have to stand up to it and explain my reasoning behind it. Yes work of "art" (and addictive are claiming themself they are artists) needs to be talked about and the creator better had something in mind when creating it other then "making money money money" or "pushing a few buttons and then this came out of it".

[DrEskaton]

I simply do not believe in remixing as there seems no artistic merit that can be formulated.

you're the only one who ever claimed it should be art. addictive never made that claim in their original post.

this addictive tv remix is the equivalent of a producer being asked to remix another musician's track.

i don't really care if it's art or not, it takes considerable technical skill and talent and it is still a milestone for the industry that vj's may have opportunities to apply their technical craft remixing in this way and get paid a decent amount for it.

is an avid editor an artist if they only cut other peoples films? do they care one way or the other what your opinion is?

milestones can be for other things other than pure artistic merit, there are technical, economic and marketing milestones that have value as well.

[fALk]

you're the only one who ever claimed it should be art. addictive never made that claim in their original post.

this addictive tv remix is the equivalent of a producer being asked to remix another musician's track.


hmmm... i would surely say they are claiming to be artists rather then producers. but that them to explain how they see themselfs in the regard of this piece. their promo email that landed in my inbox clearly says "artist" multiple times.



is an avid editor an artist if they only cut other peoples films? do they care one way or the other what your opinion is?

there is a difference - here in germany at least - between a cutter and someone who studied editing for four years. The one is a technician who operates at the directors merit and the other clearly is an artist who makes artistic decisions without the director (or give ideas to the director ).


milestones can be for other things other than pure artistic merit, there are technical, economic and marketing milestones that have value as well.

I just don?t see that "milestone" when a multibillion dollar industry swallows a scene that is just in the making still trying to define itself. What will happen is that this industry is doing the definition for us leaving us with dancing girls on MTV. Very great. Its just too fitting that the addictive remix in this thread (to stay on topic) is dancing people - it speaks for itself. There we go into the "powerculturewithoutmeaning" to speak with Peter Rubins words.

[DrEskaton]

there is a difference - here in germany at least - between a cutter and someone who studied editing for four years. The one is a technician who operates at the directors merit and the other clearly is an artist who makes artistic decisions without the director (or give ideas to the director ).

this distinction is so much bullshit to me....

an artist has to study for four years or else he's a technician? please

thats art school wankery... so you have a piece of paper that makes you an "artist" does it?

first some of the greatest artists are entirely self taught.

second, every editor whether or not they have studied for four years makes countless creative decisions in deciding what to use or not use and every one I've ever seen makes suggestions to the director themselves.

in my mind addictive tv are artists because they produce other works which have clear creative merit (eg eyes of the pilot).

on this particular job you can make a good argument that they merely applied a skilled craft to remix someone else's artistic work. its very common in the music world for producers to do this, does it mean you stop being an artist if you take on one purely technical/skilled job?

you're taking far too seriously what is clearly a piece of pop culture disposable entertainment falk.

[RayV]

"Money Can't Buy It" / ANNIE LENNOX

Money can't buy it... baby
Sex can't buy it... baby
Drugs can't buy it... baby
You can't buy it... baby

I believe that love alone might do these things for you
I believe in love alone yeah yeah

Take the power to set you free
Kick down the door and throw away the key
Give up your needs...
Your poisoned seeds
Find yourself elected to a different kind of creed

I believe that love alone might do these things for you
I believe that love alone might do these things for you
I believe in the power of creation
I believe in the good vibration
I believe in love alone yeah yeah

Won't somebody tell me what we're coming to
It might take forever till we watch those dreams come true
All the money in the world won't buy you peace of mind
You can have it all but you still won't be satisfied

Money can't buy it... baby
Sex can't buy it... baby
Drugs can't buy it... baby
You can't buy it... baby

I believe that love alone might do these things for you
I believe that love alone might do these things for you
I believe in the power of creation
I believe in the good vibration
I believe in love alone yeah yeah

[THC]

YOU GUYS SUCKS.........
drop your lappeess, v4's and go plant something, when you done see what happen. you might have a better clue.
let go of this stupid thread

PS: while planting potatoes listen to some 2 many dj's it might inspire you.

[fALk]

you're taking far too seriously what is clearly a piece of pop culture disposable entertainment falk.


yes but what has this thread then to do with "creating content" in the "content" meta thread? Why isn?t it in a general self promotion thread? Clearly the initial poster must have thought that his work is a piece of original content art?

And yes I am on your side when you say an artist does not have to study anything I was just referring to your "editors" comment - there is no need to provide every VJ with your "accomplishments" if what you do is just a new technical way to edit a movie - especially if it caters to the industry that is surpressing any and all rival artforms for the last 60 years.

I am okish if people edit in realtime for hollywood and make new trailers for them for really cheap (and I believe hollywood saved some pennies here - hollywood is all about money) what really offends me if those same people are proclaiming that they have reinvented the world that they have all of the sudden freed the vjs and that they are the shit. I could really puke with such selfpromoting nonesense in the threat that was created to make us think about how to advance our art in any way - editing a trailer for hollywood does not advance us it takes us three steps back - this kind of stuff has been done in the era of silent movies - maybe not live but I do not see any merit - if you want to become an editor so be it but it then has nothing to do with vjing whatsoever. That the technology in editing is changing towards live - yes but that as well is not even something vj software did first and does best. I do not see any point in this threat other then selfpromoting.

If they would have said "oh we cleared a Bush interview from FOX news to make a dissent recontextualising movie about his policies" then that might have been much different it would have legalised a thing lots of VJs do as a political statement (not the anti:bush but the re:use of media) and it would - at least for those liking to sample - provided a legal victory and really advancement of something lots of people fight for. What happens here is that at the merit of the content producers the VJs are allowed to make commercials for them - very great. If that Bush example is a bit to harsh - what about a Micky Mouse sample clearing to put it in the Iraqi desert? I do not see this happening after this - even worse now that Hollywood is all of the sudden aware of the VJs well see more cease and desist orders to those who sample against them.

EDIT: And no I am not taking all too serious its just an argument and most people on this board for a while know my stand with sampling and "traditional" media. Its just the way this whole first entry sounds "we are saving the vjs" that makes me make my standpoint clear - especially since the vjforums is turning into a "gear and technology" meeting point and the content and meaning threads are absolutely vacant and nobody is actually interested in what they show just how they show it (the "I have the bigger (pixels, screen, processor, software, fill in what you think)" mentality shows through too many new threads for me in general.

[asterix]

By the way use Im also one of those advertising graphic designers :)

And yes by any standard it can be called art, in the same way as any platform for expression can be.

[USE]

By the way use Im also one of those advertising graphic designers :)

And yes by any standard it can be called art, in the same way as any platform for expression can be.

not by my standard, or the standards of most artists i know or respect. i guess we'll have to agree to disagree. bill hicks puts it so much better than i can tho...

actually, some advertising as i said is art, but only if it has been made primarily as art, and not primarily as a means to con people into buying shite.

i have a suspicion that you would agree that vjing is a more purely artistic medium than advertisement? as in the motive is more to do with humanity and less to do with money.

[AddictiveTV]

Hi all... blimey, away for a few days and questions, questions, questions... :o)

In general on forums, I think it's a good idea not to read too much into things. I was simply posting a bit of news. Isn't that what the forum is for?

Anyway, I'll keep it very short... we created both the music and the video cut, so the piece is completely in time, nothing is out of sync, if it looks like it is - it's because it's on the youtube.com site (the site auto-re-encodes whatever you send them - and doesn't always make a great job of it).

And yes, of course it's a commission, I did say we'd just done the remix for the film's promotional campaign so doesn't have to be 'CLEARED' after the event, but it is certainly CLEARED for usage, as in it's NOT a bootleg - "cleared" does mean more than just "clearing a sample" after something is made.

I didn't see any postings, certainly not from me anyway, saying anything about "saving VJing" or "a new kind of VJing" - so not sure where that came from.

It's a remix piece from a specific film, and since we're using footage provided from that film - the job clearly wasn't to start inserting our own footage. And it features dancers because it's a film about dancing and a ballroom dancer!

And, as someone pointed out, all of us have to do commercial jobs and often that helps support the less lucrative artistic projects (our current live cinema project took us about a year to make with only a small amount of arts funding - creating a whole music score, graphics and editing as you all know takes a loooooooong time).

Anyway, thanks to everyone for all the feedback, and cheers to all those who liked it... :)

Graham