expreshion of self

[unjulation]

this thred has come about from the curent state of argument over copyright, it might seem a tenuious link but i think it has resonanse

in a world that continualy strives to pigion whole you from birth-boy, girl, school-clever-stupid, social standing-working class, midddle class, upper class, etc, etc, a sociaty that continualy trys to force you to toe the line and not rock the boat, one that would rarther you not complain or say anything, one that would rarther you accept the spoon feeding that they dish out it seems to me that any indervidual who has the desire to express themselves should be appluded

i would go so far as saying that infact every one of us that make up the human race has that inate desire to express themselves and there experiance of the world around them

which then leads to the point how, in a world that strives to shut us up, do we express ourselves and the only answer i have come across is any way we can within the peramertiers of "human" law which then in tern leads us to the actualitys fo the tools that we can use to express ourselves and the maner that we do it in.

now for me the festi/party/rave/club sceen alowed me to express myself to my peers like no outher space has and that expreshion has been born out of my personsel experiances of life, which include every thing that i have seen, felt, done, and experianced

now i have to admit i'm a visual junki wether that be t.v. movies, prety paterns on a computer fine art or whatever, for god's sake i can watch nabiours and get of on it or i can be stimulatied by sculptures by andy goldsworthy, its all the same, it eliciets a response within me

so what i'm trying to say is i will and do use whatever i find to express myself, wether the outcome is eye candy or a meaningfull diolog between artist and watcher is anouther isue

now because i have chosen to use the world of V.J.'ing as my medium i also have to take into consideration the fact of the peramiters that are involved within it "set, seting and audiance"

[Rovastar]

Originally posted by unjulation
god's sake i can watch nabiours and get of on it

Yeah me too that Holly Valance bird is something. And legal thoughts now she's old enough.

Oh that is not what you meant. :eek: :p ;) :o

[MoRpH]

MoRpH sings in his best Hollay Valance voice

Down Rova.... Down boy..... :p

[unjulation]

lol :) but its not quite what i was geting at :rolleyes:

[eXhale]

yeah unju, this society just wants us to absorb from the above and by all means never give back anything. we're expected to observe, consume and shut up. we think (consciously or unconsciously) we have no control on our lives or on the future. we care more about the lives of celebrities than about our own. i think this was already pointed out some times ago about the "society of spectacle". ;)

personaly i think that anyone has the potential to be (or just is) an artist. most people nowadays, due to what school taught them, don't create anything on their own because they don't think they'd be able to do something good enough to be seen on TV and recognized by the media but the only thing which matters is to express what you have to say, even if the same has already been done in a "better" way by a number of famous dead artists of the past.

recontextualization is essential. while those dead artists may have created something worthwhile in the past, it is completely worthless for us if we don't recreate it for the present. this is why these copyrights laws are harmful, because they prevent us to transform dead knowedge into something alive, to transform our passivity into something active. we're affected by *everything* we see, and it is a crime we are not allowed to affect back this reality.

we're kind of taking part to this spectacle as VJs but at least it is not on the same level of abstraction as TV. we're right within the public and with some interactivity (live camera feeds, etc.) we can even put the public on the screen. i dream of parties/events where everyone would create something of their own. electronic music was the first step, since people started dancing instead of just watching a rock band on the scene, but i'm sure more could be done.

the future is unwritten.

[eXhale]

i think you missed a part of my post *****... :rolleyes:

it is because we focus so much on an imaginary "originality" that people don't create anything.

[Amukidi]

But we mustn't confuse expression with creative expression - I strongly feel that they are very different. (but I'm always open to being proved wrong! - in fact, I sometimes even enjoy it!!). Then there's the old "originality" chestnut - now that IS difficult to define!

[unjulation]

hmmmm, strokes chin in a beardy kinda way and thinks.....

i surpose we are moveing into the feild of subjective or objective perception and i'm sory for useing a realy old example hear but it has relevance i think?

is a pile of bricks creative art?

to some it was, to outhers it was just a pile of bricks

which was right?

on anouther point one could say, that all expreshion, per-say, is creative for it creates a reaction within one's self and the outher that you are expressing it to

to follow on from that do we then define "creative expreshion" as haveing a grater relervance in some way then just "expreshion"

if the answer is no then it becomes almost meaningless as to which an indervidual partakes in because they are both doing the same thing in its basic principal which is the expreshion of self

if the answer is yes then we have created a subjective hiararchiy that surgegests one thing has more relevance over anouther

now one could say that at any one point in time an indervidual will place more relevance on one thing over anouther but it is still subjective to themselves and there own experiance at that point in time based upon there own personal psycho-biological experianceses of the moment

as for origanality i'll come back to you on that one when i've stroked my bearded chin a bit more

[che67]

Creative expression can take any form - it's really down to communicating an idea. Most of the time VJing falls into the decorative wallpaper catagory...but that's not to say that there's no art or craft in that ;)

[MoRpH]

SOme of your best spelling ever there unj, was that written b4 or after 48hours of sleep deprivation and 2 cases of beer :p

-----Back to your regular programming :)

[Rovastar]

Originally posted by MoRpH
SOme of your best spelling ever there unj, was that written b4 or after 48hours of sleep deprivation and 2 cases of beer :p

-----Back to your regular programming :)

lol

Students now-a-days:rolleyes: ;) :) :D

[Amukidi]

hmmmm, strokes chin in a beardy kinda way and thinks.....

i surpose we are moveing into the feild of subjective or objective perception and i'm sory for useing a realy old example hear but it has relevance i think?


No mate, it's ALL about the subjective and objective! I feel sorry for Carl Andre (Bricks at Tate) as I feel he gets bad press over this issue (mind you, all press is good press really). If you see a collection of his pieces, the bricks kind of make more sense, and a lot of his other installations are visually very powerfull. One thing I've learned over the years is that the integrity and intention of the artist is of utmost relevance when I'm faced with "challenging" art. This is why I'm not a fan of Tracey Emin, but Love Sarah Lucas. These 2 artists are pretty much going down the same path - its just when you see them interviewed, Lucas demonstrates these 2 qualities whereas Emin just spouts the same old stuff every time. Having said all this, it is impossible to rationalise how a certain bit of art affects any individual!

[ikulius]

I have been looking a vj stuff with interest for several years. I am always intrigued by moving images. It can actually be a little irritating. If there is a TV at a bar I am very likely to get distracted by it and my friends will get upset that I am not participating in the discussion. But how often do people actually notice what we do? One could then say 'well if you make something that is engaging enough then that will not be a problem right?' And that is tough to answer because there are so many variables when it comes to a large space with pounding music (if it's good music) with flashing lights, beer, pretty looking girls and guys looking to hook up with each other and of course people on drugs (god blessem).

My approach is that I do what feels right to me. I try to be instinctual about my decisions. I think about the colors and the composition (doesn't everybody?). I also like to bring in elements that I feel are relevant to our time like all this talk of war. So I built a tank in 3d and used a particle effect with a red bitmap and had it pouring out of the tank. It sounded a little cheesy to me at first but when I actually saw the idea manifested on the screen I began to think differently. And then I thought 'what if while people were dancing around flirting with each other and taking drugs (god blessem) and having a good time happened to actually notice what was going on up on the screen they would look up and think 'oh, that's interesting' and it added to their euphoria. The thought that despite all the madness in the world that they were in the moment enjoying life regardless of all the horror.

I like to think that a certain sense of humor and irony can be infused into vj content, that it could, like many other mediums, transcend itself from the usual.

For people here in the states I recommend watching 'Samurai Jack'. It is one of the best animated shows I have seen on the TV screen since 'Ren & Stimpy'. The stories are simple. In another creators hands such as the awful 1970's cookie cutter shows of Hannah Barbara the story would appear incredibly trivial. But with 'Samurai Jack' the creators focus on timing, composition and superb timing.

For people not in the U.S. I can recommend Jaq Tati's 'Trafic'. One of the greatest films by one of the greatest film makers of all time. Again, timing, composition.

I am not saying that timing and composition are all that it takes. This is an area that I am particularly focused on for myself right now. What it is really about it taking the time to sit down and really believe in what you are doing. This is more important then making money. You could be the highest paid vj in the world but your work might be filled with drab stock that is just thrown on the screen without considering for one moment how it actually looks to the most important person in the world: YOU. When you like your stuff, and I mean really like it (balance that with being able to take a little criticism now and then) then people notice that.
And then the cycle is 'complete'...for now.

[unjulation]

I surpose, realy, if the truth be known, i'm just happy that some people like my visuals:confused: :nod: :confused:

[unjulation]

jafa, yha i know that there was/is more to his work then that but i was just useing it as an example of two diferant perceptions of creativity, admitadly with a bit of a sledghamer rarther then a scalple

as for my last coment it comes from the position of being a bit drunk but trying to say that i have an inate desire to express myself in some way and i'm constantly amazed that outher people do like what is created even thogh it can be seen as eye candy

ikulius, the t.v. in a bar thing is an interesting point i think that because we are very visual centerd creatuers moveing images have a tendancy to atract/distract(?) our atention from outher spaces/interactions i just see it as part of being human

as for you last point i would totaly agree if you see your work wether it be eye candy or "high" art and it makes you go "f**k me thats looks good" then basicly your on to a winner as we know not everyone will like it but if it has that basic integrity it will be comunicated to anouther in some way or form

[michaelheap]

i feel when people come up to me and say, 'yeah hey, that mad me think a different way, its changed my mind', then i have done good.

i am not a beautiful snowflake, just some one who is interested in making people see the flip side of the current social quagmire

[EXP3]

I understand the need to control the medium rather then simply beeing exposed to it.


Let me explain myself, we were all bombarded by still and moving images ever since we came to this world. Were also exposed more to the medium than controlling it ,by simply watching whatever society decide to give us, and this came in all forms. Be it movies of all genre, televsion shows in all it'S formats, photography and it it's uses be it commercial or artistic.


For the lucky few ( image addicts that we are ) This as effected our patterns of thoughts, language in its visual form and creation patterns. only recently as the technology been accessible to the mass modern consumer.

Out of this came many video artists, all using somewhat different equipments, that now can be at home and create some fu$%$5ed stuff ( pardon my english ) simply by experimenting their own visuals patterns, deciding not to simply watch the medium, taking control of it and deciding it's content the whole time that u are there in front of it....


and beeing billions on the planet......the possibilities of creating images are endless

[holly]

I've never agreed with this line of thought.

By re-using the "bombardment of images" against the public, doesn't that just make you another abuser? Is that the goal? To stop being one of the abused and join the ranks of the aggressors?

[EXP3]

Hey holly u only bcome an abuser if u are not true to yourself or the reasons why u are creating.....( afterwards it's in the hands of the beholder ) If u create purely to create not too sell or diffuse properganda, you will be only expresssing youerself sending a thought or an opinion throughout images...

Simple example.....i don't ABUSE people to watch my video in 30 seconds clips between televsion series.....i do it in a enviroment where people come for they're own free will.....



Plus who says you have to show what u do.......some of my best and favorite videos are some that i have done only for myself.....to get an idea out afterwards never showing them.....like a journal....if it's not seen it as no effect outside my own perceptions

[KillingFrenzy]

I prefer not to think of what I do as "returning abuse". I see it as opening up the media's monotonous one-sided assault into debate. If the media shouts at me, the debate becomes much louder on my part as well. If the media has a sense of humour, I can joke along with it. I can even agree on some things, and disagree on others. The idea is that I use the language of images to converse. Sometimes I'll even agree with the idea behind something, but find the language used to be abusive. Case in point would be the "truth" tv commercials about smoking. Even though I don't smoke, and I think smoking is fairly foolish behaviour, I feel as if the ads are just as condescending and manipulative as the cigarette companies they're fighting. My goal is never to bludgeon the audience, but mixing a little sour in makes the sweet all the sweeter.

[skitz]

has anyone read dewey's "art as experience"? art for art's sake or (as rand puts it) "so-called self expression" is a 20th centuary phoenomenon and doesn't have a lot to do with the previous notion of art.

it's dewey's contention that it turns what we do into an elitist practice...something that exists outside the realm of normal life and as such strips it of the power that can be found in context- the idea of art as a way of letting people see your take on things or helping people (and yourself) see things in a different light.
by playing what amounts to "the emperor's new clothes" with people outside "the art world". modern art (for example) has removed itself from normality, so much so that the general public take this as a cue to associate art with something Other. result: art is seen as irrelevant scribbling which, apart from removing all possible objective criteria for analysis (with the possible exception of cognitive aesthetics), turns art into an almost entirely middle-upper class pursuit.

but i'll stop now. i realise i've gone into essay mode.

can i get a dewey-ite?

(and a spell checker? and some caps?)

skitz

[MoRpH]

Damn I should read that.... SOOOOOO much modern "art" suffers from "emporer's new clothes"

[burstingfist]

Shit, if I play a piece of someone else's stuff is because I think it is dope. Usually others will think it is dope and ask me what it is from, so I tell them the artist name and the work. I think this, in the long run, helps sales and rentals of the original artitst's works. Please stop me if you believe me to be incorrect. At least it gets people interested in different idealogies.

EX: Herzog Werner's "Lessons of Darkness" has a great image of some firefighters lighting up an oil well. This amazed me, so I thought it would amaze others. It did.

[burstingfist]

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