Need advice on VJ art installation

[noefresh]

I'm looking for software that would let me project two video clips in perfect sync with each other for an art installation. Each clip will be sent to a separate projector but they need to match perfectly- it's two views of a tennis match. Any ideas?

thanks,
Noah

[thomase]

two computers synced with midi?

[hyperdimensional]

Hi Noah,

It depends how long you've got to set this up.

The easiest way would be like Thomase says, use two PCs with MIDIVID (http://www.midivid.com) or something similar (resolume, vjamm, etc all take MIDI in). I recommend midivid because it's free (although vjamm1 is only ?10 from ninja tune & there is are free trials avaliable for most vjsofts).

You can then control them with a MIDI keyboard and a midi thru (http://www.philrees.co.uk/products/thruunit.htm). Mapping the same key on each PC to the video clips.

Another way is to programme something using pure-data, jMax, vvvv or max/msp/nato. This method isn't recommended unless you've got a lifetime to devote.

;)

There maybe a method of using just the one computer, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

You may also be able to do it manually with a VHS or DVD - but this isn't a software method like you asked.

Good luck

Ben

[robotfunk]

This sounds like a job for Captain Video!
(or at least for the software they made, M4)

I think you will have to render your video to 512x512 for it to work nice n fast, but it has an option to split across the network with a perfectly aligning image. It looks good and is very fast and the software is free.
http://www.captainvideo.nl/m4/index.html

[noefresh]

Interesting- would the midi option be able to be automated? One of our concerns is that the gallery we're going into will need to be able to operate the system. They need to be able to simply flip a switch and have it work. I'll give M4 a try too.

thanks,
Noah

[noefresh]

Hmm- couldn't get anything usable out of M4- just sort of hung. Also- there was no network option in the version I downloaded. Any other ideas I can try?

thanks,
Noah

[hyperdimensional]

If you had a midi sequencer on one of the PCs and used something like MIDIOX or hubis midi loopback to connect to midivid.

You could then set up the sequencer to play the trigger note every 30 seconds (or however long your video is). And set it on loop.

Your installation could then last for ever.

You could also use a hardware sequencer.

Or perhaps you could commission somebody in the forums to create a bespoke program for you....?

[wellREDman]

you could get vjamm pro to do this with 2 scan converters and the two loops triggered off the same midi note in different parts of the screen with the scannies zoomed into those areas

[noefresh]

Originally posted by wellREDman
you could get vjamm pro to do this with 2 scan converters and the two loops triggered off the same midi note in different parts of the screen with the scannies zoomed into those areas

Interesting idea- I didn't realize it was possible to attach two scan converters to the same computer. If that's the case then I could just make one clip and have it loop automatically. How do I set up a computer with two scan converters?

thanks,
Noah

[VjDeranged]

erm.... how come nobody suggested using a dualhead card like matrox or ati and then stretching the desktop over the entire screen (like say windowsmediaplayer being dragged across the two screens) and isntead of using monitors just use video projectors connected to the two vga outs of the card??

[noefresh]

Originally posted by VjDeranged
erm.... how come nobody suggested using a dualhead card like matrox or ati and then stretching the desktop over the entire screen (like say windowsmediaplayer being dragged across the two screens) and isntead of using monitors just use video projectors connected to the two vga outs of the card??

That also sounds like a fine idea- would it work?

Noah

[VjDeranged]

course it would work :D

ok a bit moreprofessional approach would be to take both your clips into something like adobe premiere (or any video edit package) and JOIN both views into a single scene (or use a standard video mixer to split the views half / half between A and B channels and record this output onto a new tape..
now grab this new footage into your computer , then playit back in windows media player etc and stretch media player across both screens of your dualhead card.
now take the output to two projectors.

:p

[VjDeranged]

Ok you Reeeeeeaaaallly have money to spare then buy this
..WATCHOUT! from Dataton (www.dataton.com)

---- end of suggestions ---------

[noefresh]

Originally posted by *****


The above suggestion is the sensible approach except for the stretching across two desk tops.. It makes more sense to create the peice to Span both desktops thus keeping the correct aspect ratios.
(from memory one of the members already does this, was it physic chackra?)

That sounds like the right way to go. So- if I have two 800X600 desktops my total desktop spanned would be 1600X600. If I create a clip at 800X300 and play it double size- I'm there right? Know any good players that can span two desktops?

thanks,
Noah

[noefresh]

Good- I think I've got this worked out. My only question is what graphics card to use. Ideally I would like one with dual tv-outs but if not that I guess we can use dual VGA and run each through a scan converter. Any thoughts here?

thanks,
Noah

[Anyone]

If your clip arent interactive you could also get it done
via two synched DVD players...

[noefresh]

Originally posted by Anyone
If your clip arent interactive you could also get it done
via two synched DVD players...

could- but perfect sync requires two very expensive industrial DVD players- no can do.

Noah

[VjDeranged]

Of course if you want to go the analog way you can also use 2 standard svhs decks / dv decks / betacam decks and either a lanc c controller that triggers timecode based playback

or a rm54 dual controller for betadecks

my guess is Lan-c with sony dev decks is the cheapest analog solution, plus you can record 90minute loops on each deck and it does afford a "no brainer" on/off/rewind solution to the staff
:D

[WordVirus23]

I think Matrox is the dualhead king of the hill... as for what model, I've no idea, check the hardware section?

Originally posted by noefresh
Good- I think I've got this worked out. My only question is what graphics card to use. Ideally I would like one with dual tv-outs but if not that I guess we can use dual VGA and run each through a scan converter. Any thoughts here?

thanks,
Noah

[audioillusions]

Did you know that on most of todays video projectors there is a VGA input straight from the computer, this is providing you do not need to put the signal through a mixer. This is the best route, scan converters cause a loss in image quality

[wellREDman]

on the matrox front the g400 or the g550 (avoid the g450 or the parehelia)

if yr gonna do it with decks (vhs or dvd) just get 2 identical model decks then the remote control will trigger play on both at the same time, a good work around to give almost perfect sync on a budget

on the scan converter question i cant recommend vine micros coriogen range highly enough in the bang for the buck stakes

[sleepytom]

we have recently done an installation with coldcut (called gridio) very similar to this we used a computer running VJamm 2 Pro to run 16 avi clips in perfect sync - the signal was sent out to the projectors on VGA by a geforce3 graphics card at 1024 x768 resolution the clips were triggered via midi from a grid of floor sensors through a midi creator box

gridio was in the pompidou center in Paris for 3 months and at the macba in Barcelona for a similar period with no crashes and the only problems we had were in the floor cabling which got a bit squashed

[fisheye]

I've done the same with 4 plasma screens. Editing in super high resolution (720 multiplied by 4) and cut the endresult in 4 pieces. Burn them onto four DVD's. Use 4 pioneer 7300 (7400 if USA) dvd players and sync them with blackburst. So not only your start stop signal is in sync but also the timecode.

Have fun

Kris
www.fisheye.be (http://www.fisheye.be)

[fisheye]

To sleepytom

Wich sensors did you use to trigger the movement ?? I'm buiding something with contact microphones who are mounted under the floor.

Greetz

kris


www.fisheye.be (http://www.fisheye.be)

[Anyone]

Originally posted by sleepytom
... we used a computer running VJamm 2 Pro to run 16 avi clips in perfect sync - the signal was sent out to the projectors on VGA by a geforce3 graphics card at 1024 x768 resolution the clips were triggered via midi from a grid of floor sensors through a midi creator box ...


Hi Tom,

not sure I understand:
did you have 16 video outputs from one card?

[sleepytom]

fisheye> we used the "taptile" sensors from infusion systems (the people who make the icubex) we had been using an icubex but it broke and we got a midi creator instead - the taptiles are very well made but are pretty expensive - we have also used burglar pads from maplin that cost about ?6 each and work really quite well

Ne1>no we just had one graphics card output at 1024 x 768 the clips were 384x288 indeo scaled down to be 256 x 192 so that they fit together in a four by four grid - you could however have 2 graphics cards (you can get pci geforce4 cards) or any number of them really and you just stretch the VJamm output window over all the displays

[Anyone]

so you used a video wall screen spliter matrix thingy...

[sleepytom]

no we had 3 projectors all displaying the same image which was the fullscreen 1024x768 VJamm output - the vga was split using a vga distro amp and then sent to each projector