poll donations vs advertising for vjforums?

[RayV]

editors note:
i split the thread from Tom's Consitution Request, due to the new spin
hama

KEEP IT SIMPLE

Just an idea:

What about a pole.
There are basically 2 options [or maybe more]
That should be stated clear.
Operating vjf by:
Donations vs. advertisement
[or any third option]
- first pole.

& another thread with a call out for people who are ready to:
1. Do the actual server work
2. Handle money issues [walk to the bank & actually open the account to begin with]
3. any other

& let the community majority decide until an agreed date on both.

In both cases each statement got to be clear & simple
[Hopefully will be done by someone with better English than myself]
- Something along the lines of - by supporting the idea to running stuff via donations, there's a fair risk of things will happen

[RayV]

Spelling Mistake
by supporting the idea to running stuff via donations, there's a fair risk of things will happen

meant to be: "by supporting the idea to running stuff via donations, there's a fair risk of things will NOT happen".

i guess my operative idea to further actual steps wans't very populare so far.

I guess what the mods call the Gen. pub. [*general public]
are used to things being decide upon for us.
without taking part in the desicion making process.
now in order to make a community decision,
innitiating a democratic process, that should be changed. [ but by who???]

[many2]

what about a paid subscription for voting rights : you pay, you vote ; you don't pay, you don't vote.

[holly]

what about a paid subscription for voting rights : you pay, you vote ; you don't pay, you don't vote.
Amerikkkan style, huh? I prefer the people who are actually around and involved to be the voters....

[RayV]

im with holy on that one.

but it does not mean that the general ppl involved, don't need to pay something for keeping vjf alive.

we all know that in general, ppl evaluate somthing they pay for
& once they get it for free its value drops
- a good example - anybody around ever did a free-bee gig ?

all i'm saying is - u want somthing to happen - > its part of the way u make it actually happen-> u show a true will

[RayV]

who will be interested in placing ads on vjforums? [* that if we vote for it]

just a thought since nothing is happening & May is soon eanogh.

all vj equipment sellers/vendors,
all vj app vendors,
all vj effects vendors,
anyone interested in this target group.

how & if are we gonna approach those ? [another pole / suggestion thread ?]

suggesting ads - one month fee [is it 30 euro per month for the server?]

& the rest of the money - paying mods & server care-taker can made be from Gen. public donations?

[:violin: - dont kill me, i'm just the piano player..]

[thought to place here the most annoying icon of the horse bushed by guitar = i never knew what it was good for + its so ugly,
= it might even shake somone/somthing somehow
but i still have some merci deep inside.. than again. do i?]

[sleepytom]

the only ads that make sence are google adwords - anything else costs lots in adminstration time.

[RayV]

1. how can one do that? [i have no idea] - what steps should be taken?
2. who can? :poke:

3. maybe its good for the next step tho'
unless those above wants to advertise here
- than it might be eanogh to justify the work involved?

[elbows]

just a thought since nothing is happening & May is soon eanogh.


The May deadline was last year, that was when exhale intended to leave but he hung around a bit longer till we'd sorted stuff out.

Deadline for this year is not set in stone, its whenever my patience runs out, and this seems to change every day. Certainly Id like to move on in February or March if at all possible. If Im still 'responsible' for servers etc by my Birthday in the middle of April, Im liable to get upset.

[vjpixylight]

you know really, we(maybe not the genmem) need to get caught up on the actual costs of running this site.
what do we need to have(in the bank) month to month?
Donations that come in bigger chunks from fewer yet very concerned peeps here might be able to cover it, until the slow process of figuring this out can be made..

[many2]

Amerikkkan style, huh? I prefer the people who are actually around and involved to be the voters....

I just doubt that anyone would pay for voting rights if they are not actually around and involved - and it would definitely be an incentive for those of us who are involved to contribute some money. Anyways, if you are not around, how are you going to vote ? Add some special VIP tag next to the names of those involved, and there you go.

--> please note that I do not like the principle of paying for voting (amerikkkan style ;) !!!) either but it just kind of make sense in the actual situation. The idea is to create some new value to justify the money - paying for something you've always had for free is not as convincing.

[vjpixylight]

Advertising/sponsership with both broadcast and online media services..
(http://www.pbs.org/aboutpbs/aboutpbs_internet_sponsorship.html)

[asterix]

Nice detective work pixy I like that standard.

By the way - how about something thats truly accessable and useful which requires no real oversite from VJC crew...

Coff up a for one fuck off massive webserver and host an FTP loop exchange. Its been done successfully for free - why not a one off or annual access fee (membership fee). Lets say $20 USD (is too cheap - but achieves the forum NFP objectives). BTW - $20 USD X 10000 members - pretty much makes the next AVIT self supported with no sponsorship, and perhaps allows it to travel world wide (again NFP, and promoting VJing in a way not otherwise possible). AVIT oz yay!!
At least it puts all your financial worries to bed - and unlike sponsorship you don't have to be there dealing with people each time a new sponsor comes online (there is a bit of work in that). Besides that - everyone in this forum will jump at the chance to contribute in a way we do it best!

[Kyle]

editors note:

KEEP IT SIMPLE

Just an idea:

Donations vs. advertisement



I know its just an idea, but why VS. I think we should utilize all of our options to sustain the forums. Advertising and donations together working to build a strong foundation for the community.:grouphug:

[RayV]

ok than

maybe the pole should be -
how many ppl are supporting having adds
& how many are against. [& why]

& most important:
is there anybody out there who's ready & is experianced to deal with the adds task at vjf?
sleepytom rekons only google adds can work -
are you ppl out there with the right know how regards net adds
can add any input?
or even ready to pick this glove & get it going ? -> :angel:

unfortunately, i have'nt got much web work experiance myself.
but mid April is sort of the new deadline & it is sooner than May :terror:

- Free elbows - :poke:

[asterix]

Im not against ads if someones willing to deal with marketing departments.
But why bother? Host an ftp loop exchange with a small mem fee and you won't be relying on donations or sponsors.

[3YE]

agree, ads *and* donations, not or

of the top of my head, so may be wrong:

for those that don't know, basically google text ads means that google handle all the hard work, and pay us a regular amount based on the number of people that saw and/or followed an ad link from VJF. adding the ads to the VJF pages is a question of modifying the code to include another object, much the same way that the VJForums logos are added at the top.

advantage over all other types of advertising are as folllows:

1. one-time task requiring very little admin

2. can be sorted out entirely online - non-local, no-one has to leave thier seat :)

3. non-invasive ads - generally on topic, and text only. chances are you may actually want to click the link occasionally. very little chance of anything unwanted/offensive being offered.

4. no limit on freedom of speech. I was investigating portable media players recently for my brother, and i read a review (not even a forum note, a review) and the google served link at the side was offering cheap iPods. the tone of the review? Go buy a Creative Zen, beats the iPod. Google doesn't care because they know there's no such thing as bad publicity.

so, in short:

no crazy frog vimm-vimming out of your speakers at a bad moment, no horrible flash stuff obscuring the view, no pop-ups or pop-unders (http://www2.b3ta.com/realistic-internet-simulator/), no hidden 'on-exit' scripts. no ringtones, no screensavers, no h3rbal Va1gra, no xxx-dialers, no f*cking winfixer digging in to your system and eating it whole.

I think it's few detractors will be less against it when we start seeing the words 'find cheaper prices on edirol V4 at eBay' at the side of the page...

however, i don't believe, at this time, it will be enough on it's own to support VJF, which is why i think a donate button would be a good idea, and possibly a simple bar chart at the top of the front page for signed in members (don't want to scare off the newbs) giving an 'at-a-glance' view of our financial health.

of course, if we do *really* well as an NFP then we'd *probably* have to pay some kind of dividend at some point back to those that donated, after a cut for charity of course...

and then there's still

the loopserver
the VJF raffle (top prize - a night of hot, HOT loving from a mystery moderator...!?!?!?)

M@

[RayV]

thanx for the great explanation 3YE


"of course, if we do *really* well as an NFP then we'd *probably* have to pay some kind of dividend at some point back to those that donated, after a cut for charity of course..."



Whats nfp is?


What about dividend if & when there's any ?goes to:
-server caretaker / s
-paying elbows & exhale back
-the moderators
-saving that money for vjforum event/s


All u just said even sound doable, [google adds + donations] - isnt it?
BUT
* by whom ?


VJloop server - how much work that should create for the person in charge
& who can that be

[DrEskaton]

setting up google adsense takes about two hours of work.... I looked at it for one of my own websites. its just a case of adding a little script code to the sites template
either at header or to the sides

but you can't restrict the type of advertising, google will try to intelligently figure out what your website is about and target the ads accordingly but it doesn't seem to always do a good job.

google is not the only choice, why not approach an existing network like creative planet communities? they run www.vfxpro.com and www.2-pop.com plus a bunch of other sites aimed at editors cinematographers etc but they DON'T have a VJ website....

ask them if they are interested in adding vjcentral/vjforums as an affiliate site running their banner ads. they would sell the ads and supply ad inclusion script the same as google does, since there is already such a large cross over with their existing network I think it would be quite appealing for them.

that way you'd be guarenteed to get creative/professional tools ads not whatever google wants to send you...

apart from that I'm all in favour of ads instead of donations

edited to say looks like creative planet use both google and their own add network...... overkill....

[wellREDman]

creative planet looks not too nasty

[Lucidhouse]

I'm all for adds, but feel that they definately need to be focused towards VJ related kits, festivals, content, etc... just a bit dubious with the google ones in case they just become random clutter ...

a good example of vj focused adds is the italian vj central (http://www.vjcentral.it)


.

[Kyle]

I'm all for adds, but feel that they definately need to be focused towards VJ related kits, festivals, content, etc... just a bit dubious with the google ones in case they just become random clutter ...

a good example of vj focused adds is the italian vj central (http://www.vjcentral.it)


.


Yea it?s a cool site, wish I knew more Italian. :)

[alangeering]

Back from wedding video duty:

I'm happy with google adwords as a non-intrusive form of advertising.

Re: what happens if we make money
Charities are audited, and even if we don't register as a charity I would like to think we'd pass an audit. Giving money to an individual is possible, but it looks better if all moneys donated go to the cause - directly. This is not to say I'm against giving, just that we come in for more questions if we do.

Alan

[RayV]

i think IF we make any money from adds
i feel that fisrt Elbows is entitled to get the money back for the time he paid for the server alone from his own pocket.

& than to the next server person.

as we reach elbows birthday [april is pretty soon]
-maybe mods can shed some light & let us, the general members, know,
if there is anybody who is planning to take over with the server work?
if not, we need to find that person now, isnt it?

[personally, i would think exhale entitled to get some money back too]

but in case they all do. & there's some more money made,
maybe there can be an Avit fund to help each & every Avit
under some set of rulles / vjforums desicions?

but to be honest, i have no idea, Allen,
what sort of range is "making money" really, from those adds.

is there anybody on the Italian vj's web-site that can help & shed some light on how it goes there with those adds?

than we need someone - a person to actually do what it takes to put up those adds.
- is there anyone schedualed / planning to do it already back stage?
[should get paid too, right?]

& somone to deal with that money.

do we need elections? to sort desicion process?
or is it all done back stage now. Tom? Holly? Rova? Elbows? anybody?


only my 2 cents

[RayV]

that was a long fade out
wasnt it