Screwed Over On 1st GIG

[cjcraigj]

Hi

Well I thought I would make this post to let off some steam and to share my experience.

I Started looking into VJing as an interest in November 05, After playing with some free software I made a promotional DVD to send out to Clubs and bars in my local City in Mid December. After getting some responses back via e-mail I started to purchase the HW I would need inc a Basic Midi Keyboard Scan convert etc to make sure I had it all in time.

The 1st phone call I got was from a Night Club that I regularly Visit. I arranged to meet the promoter in charge of the night 2 weeks ago. When I turned up at the club to meet him he was not there so I had to leave empty handed and try ringing him. Eventurly I met him and he gave me the details of the night and some tickets for my mates etc.

Then today, 5 Hours before the gig I got a phone call from his assistant saying that it was cancelled because the night before, the club system (mixer and lighting system) was damaged when some one spilt a drink on it. I find this hard to believe, and one of my mates was at the club that night and did not notice any problems. So basically It sounds like a classic last minute blow off. She said they would try get me back in next month for the same night but I'm gona take that with a pinch of salt and also told her that I could not do that for free as arranged for tonight.

I must admit I am very disappointed, I spent a lot of time this week preparing my visuals and making sure I had all the correct equipment in time for the gig. I had offered to do this night free of charge (expenses only) as it was my 1st ever gig and a good way to get my name out to other promoters in the city. I'm sure this wont be the last time this happens but after all the build up and telling my invited friends I feel a bit stupid and let down. :mad:

I suppose deep down I had doubts about it from the beginning because of the problems with arranging a meeting with the club promoter etc even tho they contacted me to do the night in the 1st place.

On the positive Side I received a phone call from my local University SU bar who want me in for a few nights next month. :)

OKY I FEEL BETTER NOW :up:

[complexvisuals]

Yeah, it happens and its a bummer. Dont be worrying, you can use the equipment and clips at the next gig you do.

If he approaches you again to the gig for him, charge him this ime, dont do it for free. Its obvious you can get other gigs, so no need to be doing freebies.

[holly]

That was a beautiful story with a valuable lesson: promoters are flakes.

But cheers to YOU for letting them know it's not cool to dick you around, and finding a happy ending at the student union!!!
:cheers:

[akira_k]

If he approaches you again to the gig for him, charge him this ime, dont do it for free.
As a matter of fact, charge him DOUBLE! :D

Don't be let down by shit promoters if this is really what you want to do. Shame about you buying all that hardware though, something I stress is that when you begin, you should be able to do it with what you have, and advance from there as money permits. I am not in for purchasing hardware that doesn't pay off, literally. After I bought something it has to pay itself in a considerably shor period of time, otheriwse it's a waste, and when you begin, if you do lots of shit for free or for peanuts, you shouldn't be purchasing expensive hardware liek Scan Converters (hey, I don't have one!)

[Hambone]

Greasy, slope-headed promoters... you know when they're lying... their lips are moving...

Don't trust anyone. That's the only way to prevent getting burned.

[SteveG]

Operate as the DJ's do and use a contract with a deposit % involved, atleast cover your expenses/travel.

[makemassair]

yea i had had a gig cancel on me. last week I VJ'd at the night. went down well. this week I was going to be doing my 1st DJ/VJ set. Having in the past done one or the other. The bar was closing down but the night thought they were getting 4 more. Turns out they closed for good this morning. :( Was looking forward to it and all.

But yea shit happens. At least you've got the hardware and you're serious about it.

Roll on your next gig

[sketchyj]

unless you are already connected, it's really hard to find decent gigs with promoters who will treat you fairly. My method is to forget about the money as long as the gig is decent and I can make connections. If the gig sucks, don't bother. Keep on making clips and practicing your performance even if nothing is on the table!!

[dreamteck]

unless you are already connected, it's really hard to find decent gigs with promoters who will treat you fairly.

too true Sketchy. 100% spot on. If you're not already connected somehow, it would be very hard i imagine

This might be the only reason I've never been screwed as i'm lucky enough to know a lot of the big promoters. I would never work for any small time promoters who are only in it for the quick bucks.

Just promoters with deep pockets , who LOVE what they do and care about the production and who are in it for the long haul.

[EYKON]

how about a name and shame section to list all promoters etc and the relevant amounts they haven't paid to who, with of course a right of reply section, this may put off some repeat offenders if they know there is word out on them/also make us feel better for venting the anger too.

[evomedia]

No need to get ripped off if you get them to sign a contract, business heads on guys.

No contract is leaving yourself open as verbal agreement doesn't get you far to recouping your money. Even if its for mates, a contract stops any petty disputes and lets both sides know their position.

[complexvisuals]

how about a name and shame section to list all promoters etc and the relevant amounts they haven't paid to who, with of course a right of reply section, this may put off some repeat offenders if they know there is word out on them/also make us feel better for venting the anger too.

A special forum for people to mouth off about promoters they dont like? Loving the legal implications of that.

[EYKON]

I'm guessing the average promoter who doesn't bother paying for services rendered is hardly likely to legally pursue someone he owes money even if it was a verbal agreement. i apreciate this is a contentious idea but i figured that was the whole idea of forums? all comunication is open to abuse it's a question of self regulation, right?

[robotfunk]

sorry to hear about your bad exper1ence, good that t as the frst one
you (should have) learnt one thng today GET A CONTRACT S1GNED

1 don't thnk a 'name and shame' sect1on 1s profess1onal n ANY area

[EYKON]

Just an idea!

[bryandod]

cjcraigj,

don't let this experience discourage you. at least you've got some gear to play with. Gigs get cancelled all the time, just roll with it. My gig got cancelled last weekend because the club had permit issues. I was bummed because I was ready to throw down. I just got my new matrix switcher and I was itchin' to test it. Oh well. it happens. Good luck on your upcoming gigs.

Bryan

[akira_k]

sorry to hear about your bad exper1ence, good that t as the frst one
you (should have) learnt one thng today GET A CONTRACT S1GNED

1 don't thnk a 'name and shame' sect1on 1s profess1onal n ANY area
(hey what's up with the 1s? ;p)

I don't know how it works for you guys, but around here, it's bar none impossible to get a contract for such things, specially at small venues and events.

So it all resorts to a matter of using other methods (make sure you get payment in advance, pretty clear pseudo-contracts in PDF, etc.) to get yourself assured everything is gonna be alright.

[complexvisuals]

Nice way to (kinda) gaurantee payment is record the set with music onto DVD. 99% of the time promotor will pay you there and then just so he can have a copy.

Still not a replacement for having a firm contract.

[akira_k]

Nice way to (kinda) gaurantee payment is record the set with music onto DVD. 99% of the time promotor will pay you there and then just so he can have a copy.

Still not a replacement for having a firm contract.
Interesting. Why? I wouldn't think they would be interested in a copy of such DVD...

[nocternal]

the promoters ive worked with have been quite exited about the idea of having an A/V DVD...

...id say - make a contract - you only have to make 1 then change it for each gig - just like your invoices,,,,,this puts everything to rest as such, as you and the promoter have both got the deal wirtten down,,,also yo get the rider you agreed on, which is always nice!!!!!

but yeh,promoters, tere are quite a few different breeds,,but you just gotta accept it an carry on gigging.one promoter that im working with at the moment is top draw,really organised,stays in touch, notifies me of any changes,and (which is the most important thing they need) actaully really WANTS me to VJ,,,,which is nice

[complexvisuals]

Interesting. Why? I wouldn't think they would be interested in a copy of such DVD...

Thought the answer to that is fairly obvious.

[cjcraigj]

Thanks for all the sympathy (LOL) and advise,

I think im gona take some of your advise and make up a contract, not sure how successful this will be in my area tho, I get the impression this may get laughed at by the venues and events I am trying to target at the moment. But I suppose the only way to find out is try :nod:.

By the way, I feel much better now that iv vented my disappointment :banghead:,

I found the idea of giving the venues a copy of you VJ mix interesting. Does this not work against you? Would this allow the Venue to use your mix as often as they want, hence never requiring your services again? just a thought.

[akira_k]

Thought the answer to that is fairly obvious.
Sorry but no, at least not to me, that's why I ask.

[complexvisuals]

Sorry but no, at least not to me, that's why I ask.

Most promotor keep a batch of their own flyers or posters. Its the same thing, only better. It's for the "I did that" factor.

[complexvisuals]

Does this not work against you? Would this allow the Venue to use your mix as often as they want, hence never requiring your services again? just a thought.

Just make it date. Add the guest DJ names, or put next weeks acts on it. Promotor will love you on the night for advertising the next event, but cant use it again the next week.

[ristuuk]

hey cj craigj did the gig happen any way without you or was the night cancelled?

The night with the sound problems could have been genuine....Ive worked gigs before where there have been serious problems in keeping the night going....worst on is when the main fuse box blew and a genny was obtained to keep the sound going, bottled drinks only sold and candles on tables!!

Sure enough the club was shut the next night!

[complexvisuals]

hey cj craigj did the gig happen any way without you or was the night cancelled?

The night with the sound problems could have been genuine....Ive worked gigs before where there have been serious problems in keeping the night going....worst on is when the main fuse box blew and a genny was obtained to keep the sound going, bottled drinks only sold and candles on tables!!

Sure enough the club was shut the next night!

Reminded me of a gig a few years back. Power blew in the club, except sound, light and audio were run off a seperate power circuit. 1100 capacity club, with only intelligent lighting and projectors lighting the place. Everyone crammed onto main dancefloor, was mental

[cjcraigj]

hey cj craigj did the gig happen any way without you or was the night cancelled?

The night with the sound problems could have been genuine....Ive worked gigs before where there have been serious problems in keeping the night going....worst on is when the main fuse box blew and a genny was obtained to keep the sound going, bottled drinks only sold and candles on tables!!

Sure enough the club was shut the next night!

To be Honest im not sure, It was too far to travel just to stand outside to see if they opened the doors or not. But I do know somebody who was at the club on the night the accident supposadly happened on, and they said the sound and lighting was working all night right to the end. I Honestly don't know, I just got the impression that the scenario was a bit to convenient for them. We will just have to wait and see if they get in contact to rearrange it for next month.

[baron]

small time a/v promoter sticks his head over the parapet & says....

that sucks, really sorry to hear you had a bad time

in my limited experience, there are 2 kinds of nights after vj's - out & out a/v or v/j nights, like mine, and music nights that want some nice accompanying visuals - you will always get a better experience* from the former than the latter,

cjcraigj - where do you live? might be able to put you in touch with more likeminded promoters







* does not necessarily equate to more money though

[cjcraigj]

I am from Worcestershire (West midlands) UK,

I got an interesting night coming up next week, It is a University SU Bar night. A DJ with Karaoke Mixed in every 15mins through out the night! Thought it should be a challenge trying to mix Visuals to some of the less gifted students! :eek:

This night will be a Equipment test night for the university Summer Ball Bash in May, some good DJ's from Radio 1 (hopefully) attending so definitely worth building up some good relations with the SU Bar before hand.

[DrEskaton]

Nice way to (kinda) gaurantee payment is record the set with music onto DVD. 99% of the time promotor will pay you there and then just so he can have a copy.

Still not a replacement for having a firm contract.

if you're going to do this and it's more than a few minutes long then render a large prominent water mark of your vj logo across the bottom AND add some big scrolling text along the bottom with date of gig and dj names...

otherwise you will find one day that the promoter doesn't book you and just plays the dvd on loop all night instead.

[baron]

I am from Worcestershire (West midlands) UK,

I got an interesting night coming up next week, It is a University SU Bar night. A DJ with Karaoke Mixed in every 15mins through out the night! Thought it should be a challenge trying to mix Visuals to some of the less gifted students! :eek:


you're in luck then : ), speak to dan brown at http://www.mashcinema.com/, tell him tim lookandlisten sent you

and best of luck with your karaoke, sounds a nightmare!

[USE]

you bunch of whiney flakes. have a go at the promoter, when clearly the gig hadn't been confirmed. if you are gonna take a brief conversation as a confirmed booking, you had better get used to dissapointment.

[vdmoKstaTi]

First of all always look on the positive side dude!


1. You are ready to be a VJ!
2. You have loops and equipment to do run shows!
3. Who really cares if the first show that you were prepared for didn't happen, sure its annoying, but just move on and look for something else. Especially if its your first one! Use your energy to concentrate on your next VJ gig, this will make you more deadly, and I bet your first show will go off!

:)

Promoters.
If promoters are so evil, why do you choose to work with them?
Without promoters, you wouldn't have a job in the first place!
If you annoyed about promoter that had to organise event, pay fees, licences, insurances, dj/vj fees, lights, sound rigs, projections, equipment, security, promotion and marketing, etc then pay for all of it it yourself and you won't have to worry about anything :) Be thankful for opportunities you get.

Im not saying work for free for promoter, but still keep an eye on how nights go, if the promoters doen't make profits, they won't run night as regularly. Support them back as they support you to help you make first few steps!

Its not always about money, passion comes first! if you concentrate on money issues first hand, when money runs out you won't have anything to keep you going!

If you can get in touch with big time promoters who are in it for a long haul and appreciate creative side of production, you've strike the gold mine! Well done!