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[skotleach]

Hi all,
My name is Skot Leach. I?ve been lurking on these boards for a long while now. I?m filmmaker not a VJ. I became interested in VJing a few years ago when I was exploring the possibility of mixing a film live before an audience... That curiosity eventually led me here. My current work is mostly abstract. Anyway, the reason I?m here? I recently completed a feature length video for which I created hours and hours of video some of which I?d like to make available to the public. I?m very interested in the idea of ?open source? filmmaking and video mixing. On my site I offer Video clips and music that anyone can use in any way they see fit. I hope you find the footage appealing, if not I apologize for wasting your time?

http://cowboymanifesto.com/downloads.htm

If this spamming is not allowed I apologize in advance.

Thanks

[murph]

Please don't make it sound as though these loops are free if you're going to charge for them. Not that I wouldn't be willing to pay $5 for a loop, but you made it sound like you're giving these away. Also, if you're charging, you should be releasing copyright, and they should be something more than some scenes recorded and vectorized. I'd recommend putting all three together for $5, into a proper VJ single, then I'd probably buy them, but not now.

[Mattbot]

In what sense is this "Open Source?" This is the same buisness model stock footage companies use but with greater usage restrictions. If you're truly interested in "Open Source" filmmaking, consider looking into copyleft (http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/copyleft.html) . Otherwise it sounds like you're trying to sell us your video clips for $5 bucks a pop, which you should probably be doing on the Video & Gear Exchange forum and not on this thread.

[skotleach]

I apologize if you feel I'm trying to rip you off. My reason for charging a onetime fee was based on the need to support the site and the bandwidth issues that arrise by disributing large files. I honestly thought I was providing a valuable service, but gauging by these responses I can see that may not be the case.

[eXhale]

$5 seems fair for the bandwidth, what size are the videos? You may want to partner with http://audiovisualizers.com, dave specialize in the exchange of content and could provide the bandwidth and network for your work to be shared more easily.

[syzygy]

Originally posted by Mattbot
In what sense is this "Open Source?"

Well... I don't think this is open source, but not for the money reason.

A lot of people get confused about what open source means.

At it's most basic, open source just means that the source code is open (i.e. available to the user)

Even calling software 'free' does not neccessarily mean that no money changes hands.

A common example used to explain this issue is "Free (as in beer) vs Free (as in speech)"

Free Beer means that no money is paid
Free Speech means that no unfair restrictions are placed on future use

Software that is free (as in beer) is not neccessarily free (as in speech) and vice versa.

Video clips could quite happily be free (as in speech) and not free (as in beer), providing unfair restrictions are not placed on how they are used.

BUT

I'm, not sure that the phrase 'open source' really applies all that well to video clips (since there isn't any source as such).

I guess if you were distributing all the layers that were used to put a complex clip together, or an AE file with compositions and layers intact, that could be described as open source - as you are giving people the components that are used to put the clip together.

That would actually be quite interesting - I'd consider paying for stock visuals that came as an AE file with lots of layers (or even lots of separate video files) so that I could use some or all of the layers along with my own material - that would be much better than buying a completed sequence.

Just thought I'd clear this up because equating Open Source with giving things away for no money is a common misconception. There is a big overlap between people who think software should be free (as in beer) and people who think software should be free (as in speech) but the two are not neccessarily the same.


Dan.

(SyZyGy)

[Primebase3]

wo man getting drunk from the xplanation man lol :D

[MoRpH]

http://centerstagecomedy.com/frankie-Drunk.jpg BRING ON THE FREE BEER!!!

[eXhale]

yep syzygy the word "free" for example on the free software foundation behind the GNU licence is tied with "freedom" not with "not paid", although many such softwares are also "not paid" because they come from collaborative work. with open-source, users control the way their software is run, they don't have to blindly trust a software company... they are not slaves to their machines.

for example it was recently discovered that all versions of windows since 95b have 2-3 special keys which gives the US governement, and in particular the NSA, access to your computer. this would never happen with open-source softwares since everyone can see and modify what they are doing.

Two weeks ago, a US security company came up with conclusive evidence that the second key belongs to NSA. Like Dr van Someren, Andrew Fernandez, chief scientist with Cryptonym of Morrisville, North Carolina, had been probing the presence and significance of the two keys. Then he checked the latest Service Pack release for Windows NT4, Service Pack 5. He found that Microsoft's developers had failed to remove or "strip" the debugging symbols used to test this software before they released it. Inside the code were the labels for the two keys. One was called "KEY". The other was called "NSAKEY".

Fernandes reported his re-discovery of the two CAPI keys, and their secret meaning, to "Advances in Cryptology, Crypto'99" conference held in Santa Barbara. According to those present at the conference, Windows developers attending the conference did not deny that the "NSA" key was built into their software. But they refused to talk about what the key did, or why it had been put there without users' knowledge.

But according to two witnesses attending the conference, even Microsoft's top crypto programmers were astonished to learn that the version of ADVAPI.DLL shipping with Windows 2000 contains not two, but three keys. Brian LaMachia, head of CAPI development at Microsoft was "stunned" to learn of these discoveries, by outsiders. The latest discovery by Dr van Someren is based on advanced search methods which test and report on the "entropy" of programming code.

Within the Microsoft organisation, access to Windows source code is said to be highly compartmentalized, making it easy for modifications to be inserted without the knowledge of even the respective product managers.

Researchers are divided about whether the NSA key could be intended to let US government users of Windows run classified cryptosystems on their machines or whether it is intended to open up anyone's and everyone's Windows computer to intelligence gathering techniques deployed by NSA's burgeoning corps of "information warriors".

According to Fernandez of Cryptonym, the result of having the secret key inside your Windows operating system "is that it is tremendously easier for the NSA to load unauthorized security services on all copies of Microsoft Windows, and once these security services are loaded, they can effectively compromise your entire operating system". The NSA key is contained inside all versions of Windows from Windows 95 OSR2 onwards.anyway to go back on-topic, maybe "copylefted" would be a better word than open-source for videos.

[Primebase3]

yo ex, you do know that Roswell was real right and that microwaves are in fact data carriers in the western world that transmit to (gasp) Oprah Winfrey so she knows what her general public eats?? dude you bring Mulder to shame


Peace

Ps: for the guys who sells his "records"(no hiring lending ...) thats' cool..but I think the cats here would like to sample(rip it apart play with it) it as well ? just my 2 cents

[eXhale]

Originally posted by Primebase3
yo ex, you do know that Roswell was real right and that microwaves are in fact data carriers in the western world that transmit to (gasp) Oprah Winfrey so she knows what her general public eats?? dude you bring Mulder to shameTake it like you want, I don't really care. If you paid attention to the text, you'd see the people who discovered this are all well knowledgeable in this field and I don't see why they would invent all this story. Weither or not you consider this important or real, it's just a small foretaste of what will eventually happen with non-open-source softwares, especially once the palladium system is fully implemented.

[Primebase3]

that's the problem with these text : they always are well known in there fields aren't they?.(yet microsoft seems to get hammered by the US government to split up there monopoly..) you know here's a conspiracy theory for you: ages ago human beings from the planet earth created humor to: you should try it once or twice
:D sjeez


anyway I get the point about the open source , just wanted to comment on the conspiracy-esque things: The world is an evil enough place without conspiracy's : Man doesn't seem to need one when it wants something : think about it.

addendum2: I've read the text again..and again.. yet the part of masshysteria, complete media coverage by cnn, stocks dropping and the dollar being worh .well shit doesn't seem the show)your a smart guy man: think if something like that would happen ,wouldn't it trigger all the above effects and worse?

[robotfunk]

A bit of paranoia does not hurt.
Especially when you and me are living in a country that effectively subcontracted all of its phone/net eavesdropping to Israeli Mossad.

[LEVLHED]

hey eX/primbase, I BELIEVE.

[Primebase3]

lol:D ok ok sorry no more X-files wisecrackz from me (damn they we're kinda wicked though..gonna miss'm) naah but when I go to a market to get milk or some shit like that I don't think : what if the government added supersoldier genes so I will slightly care less about the Iraqi situation ..i don't know.. hey robotfunk you know that's just the fault that the public voted en masse for Harry Potters dad and his skinheaded dead friend :( it's shit I know : you know I miss Kok you know... :(


AARGH bring back sanity to governments everywhere!!

[fluchtpunkt]

Originally posted by Primebase3
yo ex, you do know that Roswell was real right and that microwaves are in fact data carriers in the western world that transmit to (gasp) Oprah Winfrey so she knows what her general public eats?? dude you bring Mulder to shame


prime you're right, the shit does sound like conspiracy wack. but it is real (...&never mind that some conspiracies do take place in the real world, too ;) ). i guess the world seems to be more & more resembling the nightmares 'conspiracy nuts' are famous for phantasizing - but to conclude it thus can't be real is imo a strange way to go.
fact is: microsoft (& probably not just ms) DID adopt such practices (& i guess still does).
...
the issue of privacy/spying on (the) net is still in debate. laws regarding the issue are dated (because older than the technology concerned & therefor often ineffective - e.g. laws from the 19th century), very new (like the 'usa patriot act') & time will have to tell what they will bring the 'real' world (which isn't always promising), - or they simply don't exist yet!
...of course there isn't merely people involved in writing new laws that will do so with only the best intents for the 'people'!
...having quick access to a lot of (or even all) personal data of a people is a powerful tool to rule them (ask e.g. former east germans about it!).

ignoring an issue can be just as stupid as getting paranoid about it.
put another way: though all the information we are fed may be distorted, misleading & instrumentalizing in nature it still refers to a world that actually exists.

peace fp


ps:
microsoft hasn't been split by us courts yet - &surely won't be as long as the bushies are in power.
pps:
Originally posted by Primebase3

think if something like that would happen ,wouldn't it trigger all the above effects and worse?
again it did/does happen...... & if i remember correctly all those things you mention actually HAVE happened since then. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Primebase3]

touche touche :D all in favor of living in a house on jamaica say aaI !! ..uhm we're getting a little ot though.

[robotfunk]

Primebase its not this government but the last that made the stupidest ever decision to let mossad do the spying on our citizens and let them have all the info. The only one that had anything to do with it back then was mat herben.

more info:
http://www.fnl.nl/ct-nl/archief2003/ct2003-01-02/aftappen.htm
scariest local news i've heard in ages

[Primebase3]

hmmmz now that you mentioned it I remember that story and instead of the national mayhem I would have expected It stayed like that and it would have been the last report I've seen about in a long time ....:confused: found it odd but never gave it much thought. but does it mean there's a dark world out there with faceless men and there deadly plans..a true conspiracy? . no not really , espionage yes(it was indeed during the trial of the kurd guy) but a conspiracy. ...no..right?


okey funk congrats you freaked me out , or does anybody else have a better explanation..

addendum: ok read it again check this

People within the Dutch government got worried too. Especially because they had been warned as early as 1998 about the possible back-doors in the tapping equipment. The ex-ministers of interior ("Binnenlandse Zaken"), Peper and de Vries, could not comment. The minister of Justice at the time, Korthals Altes, was asked to report to parliament in december 2001, where he stated that the security measures meet the required level and that an investigation would be started if this, after all, was not the case. No investigation followed.

that the security measures meet the required level and that an investigation would be started


ok so why was it being italic in the original text?? I didn't see it at first and in my mind I just speed readed over it. I read it again and took a good long think about that line before I read on. what if it reach the requiered level??? A) the mossad is in and we don't care (my initial and paranoid thought) B) or shit is tight and we're kool and the gang we the fort knox in this scenario... ? the text after that reads completly different if you think b.

[fluchtpunkt]

Originally posted by *****


NUll copyright, could be a term.

...wouldn't that be called to be 'in the public domain' ??

[eXhale]

*****, according to this page (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/categories.html), "public domain is a legal term and means, precisely, not copyrighted" (note the legal part, this is apparently all well defined by laws). Doing a google search on "public domain videos" gives 195,000 result (!) and so this concept is nothing new indeed.

It seems that in skotleach's case "public domain" is a better word than "open-source" or "copylefted" as "copylefted" usually attach a license like "this product is free for non-commercial use only" (there is no international copyleft laws) and of course in the field of VJing, "non-commercial" would require quite a few definitions (can this video be used for promo video? can this video be sampled? can this video be used for paid gigs? etc.)

My 2 cents...

PS: I think that when a copyright expires (after 50 years or so, although they keep on expanding this deadline...), it becomes, legally, public domain.

[syzygy]

I was going to suggest that this thread should go to a more appropriate forum, but it now seems to be back on topic again :)(Well done G!)

skotleach - There are definitely people here who don't have a problem with you charging for content (providing it is worth it). Perhaps you could tell us some more about the clips and maybe post a low-res sample so that we can see what you are talking about?

Dan.

(SyZyGy Visuals)

[eXhale]

There *was* samples on the site, those who haven't seen them must not have looked at the page before commenting. However it seems to be all gone now, maybe the hostile reaction on this thread didn't help :( skotleach?

[Primebase3]

Ow man... wouldnt be cool if we scared 'm off ! Sorry mate we're just always like this :) no really sometimes if your not known to this forum it seems like everybody is putting a verbal magnum .57 on you.

[LEVLHED]

oh c'mon...we aren't THAT bad :)